I'll agree wholeheartedly! Having spent 30+ years in construction, I've learned that there's more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak. Whatever works and is easiest for you. Everyone is different. I've used both cement curbs and wood. Wood for me is way faster. Cement you have to wait for it to set. I also use Redgard as extra waterproofing. I've also heard that a reason people put hardibacker or durarock on the floor is because they think it's waterproof which it is not.
The people with the negative comments are called HATERS. They are people to be ignored. They only wish they were skillful and articulate enough to do what you do. Please continue your fine work Sir! There are a lot of us out here that appreciates your work, and find your videos to be very educational, informative and helpful. Thank You!
I build my curbs the same way. I got into a pissing match one time years ago with a builder who wanted me to use brick for the curb in case it leaks because his usual tile guy did that. I simply said that if it leaks then it has failed and it doesnt matter what you use. I also asked him if the surrounding walls were on brick instead of 2x4 bottom plates? you know..."In case it leaked." he didnt like that. If your waterproof barrier leaks then its going to fail. So with that being said, always pay close attention to your waterproofing stage and you shouldnt have a problem.
great video!!! I do it the same way you do it I got really bad comments saying that I need to go back to contractors school and educate my self but it is just ignorant people they think they know everything ....anyway I really thing your way is the best I being doing it for 8yrs so far no problems!! keep the good work
Nice!!! Excellent advise, insight, great props and good old commonsense engineering. Not to mention shooting the video with one hand, demonstrating with the other, all the while making up the script in your head as you talk intelligently for roughly an hour!! Very helpful!!
Thanks for this great video demonstration Bob. I am building my first curb and WEAS a bit nervous about getting it right. This video answered ALL of my questions and more. I follow you religiously and appreciate all of your expertise and patience to teach all of us DIY-ers. Keep up the great work!
I like to put a brick curb not only to make it rot resistant, but to make it solid so it won't sound hollow. I put a strip of tar paper where the curb goes, staple a strip of metal lath over the tar paper, then put my brick and mortar to form the curb. After wrapping the curb with liner, I take more metal lath and bend it to form over the curb, then put a scratch coat over the curb. After that dries, I use straight edges to form the curb for the final coat and voila, a solid, flat, level, square curb to stick your tile to.
Wow man i'm glad you showed this video because that is the same way I build my curbs and I hate it when a so call lot of the know it all so call pro's call themselves doing things other ways from the way I do things, to each his own as I say and I have never had a call back on NONE of my JOBS!! Thanks again.
Hi, I just subscribed after coming across your tub to shower video and I think you'd be a great teacher and I pray that the Lord will bless you to get your school going. Keep the videos coming especially for a beginner like me. Thanks
Dont sweat the comments man. Ive come to realize that one of the worst places on this planet is the comments section of RU-vid. Ive watched a bunch of your videos and they are very helpful, thank you!
Thanks for the great video. Makes perfect sense even though not quite "conventional". Nice to see someone think for themselves. I will be back at tile time.
Thanks for the video. It seems straight forward. I have a question ,not a criticism. When you are coating the pan with redguard, you leave the middle uncovered. Here is my thought. The mortar and thin set are porous which allows the water to seep in and then ultimately wick . Once the water is in the bed the water needs to dry out or run off. As you pointed out ,with the paper towel analogy . What would happen if instead of not coating the pan fully you coat it just like the walls and seans. Then on the outside of the curb leave the bottom 2/3 of wall not coated with redguard. I think that by doing that you have water proofed the entire shower while leaving a section uncoated so as to provide a place for drying and evaporation to take place if any small leak were to happen. Similar to not caulking the underneath of window moldings to allow moisture that does penetrate a place to exit and not be held in a virtual bag created by coats of latex paint and caulk. Thoughts??
you are awesome.ive been laying all types floors,vinyl hardwood carpet laminate for almost 40 years.i recently had to start ceramic showers.we are in business to make money first and not have any failures that cost us money.sounds like you have it figured out.thanks for the videos
I agree with you on the preslope once water gets past the membrane (liner) the pan has failed so the pre slope doesn't matter so if everyone agrees that once water gets past the membrane (liner) the pan has failed who cares if there's a pre slope . great job on the videos I have done regular pre-made pans I'm doing my first mud pan on my own bathroom in a month or so , your videos are the only ones that go into detail like the curb thanks. Bryan
The preslope is for when the water saturates the mud bed, gravity will direct the water towards the weep holes in the drain. Not in case the water gets through the pvc liner....
StarrTile I understand that you don't agree with today's standards. But obviously not everyone does know what the purpose of the preslope is...Bryan thought it was in case water got THROUGH the liner....when in fact it's there for when the water gets TO the liner.
As I have stated on another posting, I don't agree with today's standards because I don't believe that from the beginning of time people who build showers were idiots until 10 years ago
I watch your videos all the time. They are awesome. Thank you Bob, for sharing your knowledge. You have bailed me out of a rut on more than one occasion. I'm in Sanger, CA (central valley). Wish I was closer so I could buy you lunch or a beer! Happy Easter to you and yours. God Bless us all!
What if you thread your screw into the backer board until the point of the screw sticks out the other side , then hit it with a shot of silicone caulking and then put the piece in place and finish screwing it in. Would that help wit sealing around the perforation on the curb?
Holy smoke! I have watched a lot of these videos trying to figure out how to do this myself and I was still really nervous about doing it. But this video.... wow! The demo idea of using a smaller model to show the sides?? FANTASTIC!! And thanks for the Pitch Perfect idea as well. I think this was a great, informative video and I will be looking at the rest of your channel for the next steps!
i was reading through some of the comments and you replied in one that you now install the cement wallboard an inch above the shower base so that you can a) install your floor tile underneath the wallboard and B) so that if moisture were to collect on the floor, then it would not weep up into the wallboard. I get everything above. makes sense. my question though is if its done that way, how do you effectively redgard this now 1" gap between the shower floor and the wallboard. seems like this is the weakest part of the waterproofing process because the regard membrane is not getting fully into this gap.
Another great video. I might add that the main reason one might use pressure-treated lumber is that it does a better job at repelling moisture than standard wood, and is usually only used on exteriors or the bottom plates of the walls around areas that are more likely to come in contact with water, i.e. showers, kitchens, etc... However, I've seen your other videos, and given the way you line and prep your curbs, there is absolutely no reason you would need pressure treated 2x4s because the likelihood of water penetrating your fabrications is next to none. I mean, you could build your shower curbs out of sugar cubes with your method and they would stand the test of time. Great work.
Very helpful video. Just curious, would there be any benefit placing caulking or a sealant behind the Durock before screwing them down where the screws are going through?
Hi, I watched a lot of your videos and thanks for the helpful information. A question about this curb though. Since you put the wonderboard directly onto the pan for the curb, if water was to get to the pan and absorb, wouldn't that water wick its way to underneath the wonderboard/drywall and get soaked where the two meet and where there is no water proofing?
You are correct, assuming that water is so saturated in your pan that is able do what you're talking about... nowadays I set my backer board about an inch off of the surface of the pan, and then the floor tile goes first with the wall tile overlapping
Thanks for the video . You are very articulate and explain it very well. I really learned a lot about building the shower curb with using the stacked 2 x 4 's. Keep up the good work ! Question . can I use regular 2 x 4 pine wood or pre treated wood ? Another idea I have is to pre drill the holes on the inside of the ones you drilled to the inside backer board wall then fill with silicon and then drill in the screws. That way there is additional water proofing . What do you think ?
PT can warp over time, so I've backed of those, only use pine now. Filling the holes where screws are recessed seems like overkill, but ok...I mud them & the whole wall and curb is waterproofed anyway.
I have built several showers and saw this, it raises questions. I was taught the mud mix for the pan is porous on purpose, because you can't stop the moisture so thats why the rubber liner. So you have completely waterproofed the porous pan which in theory will make the pan last longer than the usual 20 years or so. However how long will the bond last to the redguard? seems like this will break down over time. You have mortared tile to paint instead of to mortar. So My question (which will prove your theory) is do you have any of these jobs that have lasted over 20 years yet? or do you know of any done this way that have extended the life of the pan?
Time will tell I suppose, then again a preslope has yet to be tested, personally only heard about them the last 8 years or so....I've not done a demo on one yet.
It says on the bucket that it's okay to put tile over the top of the redguard, however if the subfloor is wood, I'll coat that with redguard, 1/2 inch hardibacker, vinyl, then mortar bed. May seem like overkill but I would rather be safe. I have coated the whole mortar pan with redguard and tiled over it with no problems. In fact I've coated the whole shower floor and walls with no problems. Even had to pull some tiles off and they were stuck on there good!
Hi Bob, amazing video, very insigthful and very informative, keep up the amazing work and videos, also gotta couple questions for you, 1) can you use Tapcon screws in the bottom plate (concrete floor application) and regular construction screws 2 1/2 - 3 inch for the top 2 pieces of 2X4, or would you prefer wood. 2) if cement board is used for the walls, would you use mesh tape embeded in thinset in the corners and edges or just thinset, and then obviously covered in waterproofing membrane. thank you
I plan to do DIY tub to shower in my house soon. And i love your videos. I will reference back to your video if I get stuck or have a question. Advice for future videos, list the material you use. Again Thank you. Wish me luck. LOL
Thanks for the video. I really appreciate the fact that you spend money out of your pocket to try to help people like me who never done this before,so thanks. I also like to ask you where can I get the 6' long curb from? I mean I don't think Home Depot would have that or any other Home improvement store for that matter,where do you get yours from? Thanks again :0)
MrElPoderozo1 Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated ! The curb tops I buy from a tile specialty store here in the Atlanta area, they are hard to find in 6'' width.
Marc Jr The curb area attracts the most damage over the years, so even though I Redgard the curb 3 times, I feel better with Durock, a sturdy material that won't allow mold & mildew to feed off it ( If it gets wet ).
thank you for all your great videos. I hate perforating the membrane though and thought of a solution, just liquid nailing membrane to curb so it doesn't move around and then using a fiber reinforced concrete around the curb about 1/2 an inch or so thick, then red-guarding the crap out of everything with fiber tape to act as redundant tensile strength. Any thoughts on success potential/drawbacks to this idea.
Hi I am removing my Bath room and I removed the tile and behind it is some kind of glue to stick the tile on and before that they but a white stuff and their is concrete backer board what should I do should I remove it and but new backer board or can I leave it
Thanks this is great! The question that keeps popping up in my brain, because I life in Rock & Roll California, is earthquakes and keeping a shower h2o tight. Seems like it would be better to use the old fashion method rather than wonder board because it seems like the more seams I have the greater the chance for cracks. Any thoughts?
+Kasius Gamer As a rule, backerboard is raised about 3/4'' inch so that ( floor tile ) can slide under it and bottom of wallboard will not weep water up.
Great video! I really appreciate your effort making this demo! I'm new to this and I am wondering , if the floor isn't level under the shower, can the water pool to a corner if you don't pre pitch the pan liner? Just curious excuse my ignorance
I've never had a floor be THAT off level that it would be an issue. The key is to fix the floor BEFORE putting liner down. But to answer the question, yes water could pool in a corner once 100% saturation is achieved, but by then you already have a bigger issue, 100% saturation ! With or without a slope/prepitch
I mean personally for me I just feel more comfortable following the manufacturer's instructions so if it fails then I can go after the manufacturer. If I don't follow their instructions, I am on my own. I am sure Oatey did many tests etc. I get StarrTile's idea that the mortar will act like a sponge, but are you sure it will? Once the tile is down it almost a mystery about what is going on underneath.
Again, the point is set tile properly, grout using epoxy grout or use an ad-mix to the grout, and SEAL the grout the prevent water entering pan. Oatey is selling their product, whatever they tell you is in no way going to make THEM liable. Nothing beats 15 years of tear-outs to SEE the issues that cause trouble.
Great video !!. question-I started my demo in my shower and wanted to know if it is ok to leave the pre-slope already there and start from there . Thanks again
good stuff. All your videos are very informative and seem to be the best in procedure for quality work. After the redguard dries, always tile shower floor first, correct? Same for bathroom floor right up to curb, so the tile on the front/outside of curb sets on top of floor tile? Tell me your thoughts on the slope for the tile cap of the curb: could the front/outside durock curb piece be cut 1/4" higher, and the gap be filled with the thinset used to "butter" the curb? or is it easier to just use more thinset on the top front edge of curb when setting the tile cap? Also do you do any work in the Space Coast FL area?
Yes, floor always tiled first. You idea of making the outside Durock higher to form a slope: Yes, I guess you could do that, but I do the same only with tile....either way the buttered curb should be waterproofed, so no issues on leaks. And yes, I've worked in a few areas of Florida before, including there.
What is the potential down side of applying Redgard to entire pan? Also, in another video you mentioned that there should be a gap between your wallboard and the pan to prevent wicking up water into the wallboard. By applying thin set to the corners, aren't you essentially placing the wallboard and pan in continuity?
Downside is you create a mold sandwich...but I do most of my showers now with Redgard on top. And yes there is that possibility, but proper waterproofing, tiling, and sealing will most likely prevent it.
Hello, my house in AZ is 100 years old and I have a 37"-wide walk-in shower with no curb. Bathroom has porcelain tile floor with most likely a wood sub-floor underneath. Walls are brick block with plaster. I wanted to build a curb and install a glass shower door to contain the shower water. I want to tile the curb with 6"x6" ceramic tiles that match the 6" trim tile in the bathroom. I want to salvage the porcelain floor tiles underneath where I would install the curb with a dremel and if there is a wood sub-floor there, I would build the curb into that and attach it to the walls on either side. Do you have any tips for me in this scenario? Thanks
Can you do a demo with pouring a solid concrete curb and show placing shower liner overlapping curb? my question is I am stumped on what or how to mud over curb...
You mention here (or elsewhere) that you put plywood over the old diagonal board floors. My antique house has a double pine floor, 2". It is solid, no creaks or give. What is your reasoning for not going directly on these old board floors?
+C French I would think a continuous surface would be best over slats of wood, remember a rubber pan liner & about 200 pounds of mortar need to go over it. Doesn't have to be 3/4'' plywood, but something .
I watched one of the videos for the floor kits to make the proper sloop. Whats your thoughts on the curb kits they supplied to maintain the water seal?
Harold Cates Not sure which video you're referring to...but any "kit" sold for a DIY'r I think is great...I do it all the old way because it's quicker for me, but Curb Perfect, Pitch Perfect and the other things made for homeowners a great tools.
The idea is: your mud is water resistant, it doesn't matter if it's saturated. The EXCESS beyond that saturation point will either go down those weep holes if it's presloped, or if there is a hole to leak out of, it ALL goes out the hole if it's not presloped. It's the difference between a minor leak, and a catastrophic leak should a hole or tear ever be present.
But, awesome videos. Good explanations. It's great to have pros sharing their knowledge, whether we all agree or not. It gets us thinking and talking about the issues we deal with every day. Thanks
tileformiles The mud is water resistant ?? Noooooo, but ever if it were, how would the water find it's way to the weep holes ? The point remains, keep water out of the pan by doing tile right, grout properly & seal...then the weep holes are a moot issue.
StarrTile water resistant just meaning it can get wet without being damaged. Definitely not waterproof, because water NEEDS to go through it to get to the weep holes and down the drain. Does water actually go down the weep holes? I have no idea, but generations of tile guys better than me seem to think so.
I get the jist of what you're saying...common sense dictates my work, sometimes following the pack blindly is not a good idea. But your comments appreciated regardless.
Logic would dictate that you follow through with your theory about the pre-slope and redgard right over the entire mud deck. Putting the liner at the bottom of the pan obviously doesn't solve anything. Think about it.
+Grateful Dude Well a liner is to hold the mortar & keep water ( from the mortar ) out of subfloor. In theory the tile/grout/sealing will keep water out...even more so with epoxy grout. Having taken out showers from the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's and this century too, I see no advantage to a pre-slope, they all have leaked to some extent, again with BUILDERS that do nothing to insure no water gets into the pan. Do things better than they did and you're good.......think about THAT my friend ;-)
Jason Gurley Some say it's needed, but I disagree...the Redgard ( or other topical membrane ) in corners & seams will give-stretch to any movement, so although it's redundant in my mind, it won't hurt. Of course proper tiling & sealing is key to PREVENT water from ever seeing the joints.
Home Depot sand topping mix...there is a yellow bag with green stripe, NOT the yellow with red stripe, it dries too hard the next day so you can't scrape off high areas.
So different schools on this. There is supposed to be a preslope ( according to code if your city/state requires ), this would be your 1st mortar base...then liner, then mortar base. I'm in the minority that feels it is a red herring. You can find videos on YT on how to do a preslope...you can also watch mine " Preslope Explained"
Hmm. So what you are saying is, that capillary action of the mortar itself is more than adequate to wick any moisture to the drain, and that said the surface tension of water in conjunction with the porosity of mortar is actually more effective than gravity. Kind of like watering your plant with a glass of water, and a piece of yarn. You could theoretically "wick" water UP the pre slope if you wanted to. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-beqYVzrbvYA.html I am just diving into a bathroom tile DIY project. I really appreciate your "cold hard logic" on many things. Fortunately for me, we have more than one bathroom so I can really take my time on this, and doing my best to do it in a "correct" way. So I built my curb more or less the way you have shown, however unless I missed it, there is no mention of pitch on the top of the curb. Again, if I do my job properly, it makes no difference but I was curious. Also, I will say that you may have missed your calling. No, no, you obviously know what you are doing with tile, but I also wonder if you were in broadcasting, or are an amateur radio operator. You have an excellent radio voice, and are very articulate. Many so called experts in any number of fields keep their knowledge "close to their chest" for whatever reason, and that you take the time out to share your experience for others to consider. Keep it up!, and THANKS!
So basically yes, gravity only works in a void...if there is no void ( mortar ) then water is absorbed by what is surroundings, i.e. mortar in this case. Water is absorbed up, down, left & right. Once 100% saturation is achieved, then water MAY flow into direction of the slope....but the 1/4'' per foot is minute so doubtful it would do much good. The curb itself is not sloped, I slope the tile...though you could slope the curb, the backer that goes on it, or the tile. At least 10-15o inward to the shower. And thanks for the kind words AND the voice compliment, is not the 1st time I've heard that ;-)
If you did, it would not hurt...and most would say YES..but as with any tape like sheetrock tape, it is a crack prevention tool, whereas ReGard itself is a crack prevention membrane, soooooo....
Sorry about that you are saying things or at least thinking things a little different, I do not slope the curb, I slope the tile that goes on top of the curb
Neil Kynaston May be true where you're at. Regardless, is it really doing anything is the point. Prove it does anything beneficial. Watch my video " Shower Pre-slope Explained "
I watched the video. You have your opinion,I'm not arguing.If you rely on the tile and grout then why have any membrane anyway. Could be a good way of saving money.
Neil Kynaston It's no my "opinion", it's simple science, if you watched the video & still think a pre slope works, more power to you, but as I said time & time again, PROVE IT instead of following like sheep. To your other comment, I never EVER make money of any material.
Try filming it next time without the camera 2" from what your working on. Or get a tripod or someone else to hold it. I might could've set through more than 2 minutes of it.
You're not right about mold and mildew on on any backer board. Anyway, why don't you eliminate the pan liner? You have redgaurd right? You do say anywhere there's redguard there's no penetration. See how ridiculous this sounds? As ridiculous as not using a pre-slope, it's all these things which create a solid shower. The pre-slope is for this situation... IF water ever does get on the bed above the pan liner , the bed will dry faster.
+Luis Costabile Mold/meldew grows ANYWHERE water & air porous surface is located....sidewalks, driveways, wood fences, ..HARDI BOARD, DUROCK, etc... FYI, Redgard which is a Custom building Product, approves it to be a pan liner ..... www.custombuildingproducts.com/products/surface-preparation/waterproofing-membranes-underlayments/redgard.aspx Now preslope does NOT allow water to dry out, complete garbage ... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-v0HzU42XZz4.html
Old fashioned why meaning floating the entire shower. It is difficult to find someone who will do it, meanwhile my shower stands naked...has a condom on, it's hot mopped but nothing else. Trying to decide what to do.
+MrCowboy1492 well sounds like you need some lube in there. Spread it on generously so you don't bust that condom with unnecessary friction on the outer walls. After months of filling that sheath up with liquid you don't need that baby pissing all over the ceilings down below. Stay protected my friend, no whammy's.
