Was StarrTile Right??? --- Shower Curb Failure 

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I can assure you that once a dry pack is wet, it will never dry.

Only way to dry out is to remove a small area around drain and let dry, then after reinstalling Mudbed and tile, seal the grout and epoxy paint grout to prevent anymore water from entering mudbed.

Agreed. In truth, there is no reason to have cementitious products in the shower these days, period. Too many other better choices.

Hmmmm

Thanks!

Good job Joe... FloFX rocks!!!

I wholeheartedly agree, too many dam failures on wood for me to ever think about using it again. Brick is the way I roll now or form it out of mud. Forming it does add an extra day so its only for custom curbs.

@@johnperkins630 When time critical can build curb with kerdi board or use pre-built curb.

Yep. Masonry curbs are the latest refinement to my shower system. Ive poured solid curbs a couple times and ive used bricks a couple times over the years. And clogged weep holes is why i use a liquid waterproofing membrane system ON TOP OF the shower slope bed. I honestly just cant understand why anyone would do it any other way. Theres no wicking up backer board, no saturation and precipitation of your shower pan bed, no pre-slope, post-slope or slope-slope issues. And no effluence to clog the drain weep holes. You can use whatever cement based slope bed you like and the only requirement for it is that it has 1/4" slope per 12" of linear space and is stable and has enough compressive strength to support the tile work and a couple of occupants . Other than that it just doesnt matter because, the ONE PIECE waterproof membrane is applied above it and runs from the drain to the top of the tilework. No water will ever reach beneath the membrane to the shower slope bed so its never saturated. The backer board is completely isolated and sealed off from water intrusion too so theres no concern of wicking. And you can use a standard 3-piece drain or a bonding flange drain , whichever you prefer with no concern of clogged weep holes or of water creeping past a liner. And it can be completed in as little as 8 hours or an absolute max of 12 hours from the application of the first coat until ready for overnight leak test, which btw, ive NEVER had one fail. You can lay tile the morning of the 2nd day or by the morning of the 3rd day max. So its either the same as those sheet membrane systems which WILL fail and leak unless you also apply liquid waterproofing to the seams or worse case scenario it takes an additional half to full day with all but guaranteed success and peace of mind that affords. Thats worth an extra day imo. Its like a fiberglass boat hull versus a wooden boat made of many pieces, each one requiring careful fitting and sealant. Why would you do it any other way? I really cant understand why other systems even exist. To each his own i suppose but for me ill stick with what works and i trust. Never had a failure in 17 years. About 100 or more showers done. Ive renovated a handful of them after 9 to 15 years and each one was as perfect as when first completed. Whether Redgard, Aquadefense, Hydroban or whatever your brand, liquid waterproofing membrane systems are the ONLY way to go imo.

@@johnperkins630 - just make it in advance. Keep some laying around cured. Cut to fit.

It’s not too bad just get a good clean demo plum and square your framing have a plumber do the liner and drain and then just durarock and waterproofing and mortar bed then who cares what your tile looks like you’re the one doing it lmao just make sure you have a proper slope to the drain

good luck. your gonna need it lol

Material Cost are high at the moment. Hyro Ban 3 x 5 boards times 5 each plus strata mat and 4 tubes of laticrete sealant and Roll water proofing band cost me 950.99 at Desoto tile supply here in California. Tile was even up there from Floor and Deco

This guy is all of us here at RU-vid university

@@RawTakes YOU DAMN RIGHT! If everyone could do showers, well........

One of the reasons our world is so jacked up right now is that we are afraid to see any truth coming from people with whom we don't agree with.

Im in cali and we charge 5-6 k with customer supplying tile and door. This guy is way out of line for a shower.

If you estimate a workman costs $1000 a day that's about a week of work with 2-3 guys, plus a few thousand for materials, totally reasonable. If you want a plastic shower from Costco that could be done for $1000 in labor.

Down here in Florida that’s not too far out there for a full remodel but some shower only renovations can be done for 5k but at the end of the day you don’t want your contractor feeling rushed to get the job done just to make a slim profit margin because it’ll show in the work

I work in the Seattle area and those numbers quoted are in line with what I would charge.

Heavy glass door alone eats up $2500!

@@franknavarro8143 do you work with schluter products? I have roughin plumbing done to fit their linear drain. In kenmore

Seems very optimistic to me to clad a 2x4 in just adhesive, tile and grout and hope for it to stay water tight for more than a month.

JUST HYDROBAN...DONE FOR 20 YEARS EASY.

I agree, I watched both channels. But after all the complaining he does and shot he takes at Tile coach. Also his way is best no if ands or buts. Star just refuses to to hear or listen to anyone. Just a piss poor attitude

Yeah, even if he's right(99% of the time he's not), his attitude is so poor that no one will listen anyway.

@fartpoobox ohyeah Oh man, I wish you were right. I just redid one of the bathrooms in my house (built in 1967) original tile, tub with shower. One of the walls was COMPLETELY rotted out - load bearing outside wall no less. Years and years of water seeping through the grout - you could see the curve in the studs of the arc of the water. I would rather have too much waterproofing than find that mess behind a wall again.

You notice he doesn't really show his own tile work?

@@Stevesbe yep!!

Depends on what carhartts you're wearing but they are cooler than the heavy canvas ones for sure.

I had the same thoughts that I am under pricing my builds as well, especially with my attention to detail and location. Thanks tilecoach for actually talking numbers which I rarely hear you do.

I agree. Starr tile is an idiot.

Doesn’t matter what it’s made of, if it’s not waterproof it ain’t lasting.

Tile Coach can charge 13k for a shower redo because of the reputation and he could charge those prices in any state because of it. He has the ability to target his desired customers. Tile companies without the reputation can't charge that and allows lower budget homeowners to still have the ability to get work done. Labor unions would make the problem worse for home owners. They don't take into account location and it forces higher prices for potentially less quality work.

dude, you need to invent that....hell of an idea....

Weep holes will clog no mater how large they will be. Scale will develop in them over time and create a barrier.

Spot on, wood and water do not mix, guaranteed to fail!

Move the drain it's not as much work as it seems or foam pan if you can

I tore out my water damage traditional shower pan and went with tile redi pan, well worth it knowing it's not going to leak like the original install.

Yes, the abs/pvc drains are less prone to clogging but they can definitely still clog.

Some guy said he poured a concrete curb/step……you thoughts?

@@petersweeney5777 So long as the pan is vertical and relatively centered it works. whether it's monolithic or a cold union doesn't matter. most of the old schoolers dry-pack.

Wtf? 13k are you kidding?

Liquid membrane applied with reinforcement fiber mesh at plane changes used in conjunction with commonly available cement boards allows to build very robust shower on budget. Fiber mesh reinforcement will control contraction at plane changes. Contractors prefer foam as this is less labor and helps to maintain good pace. DYI usually has more time at their disposal to deal with intricate aspects of fitting cement boards, reinforcing seams, allow cure time and etc.

@@BlahBlahManYeah Agreed

I did the same as you, to save money. I had to buy 3 buckets of Red Guard, which is expensive. Had I known how expensive (& amount needed) the Red Guard was going to be, I would have thought about spending up on the Schluter (no red guard needed).

I think 8-10 years is reasonable if you ask me. Im a a tile guy. 8 years solid of daily use no issue is good. However you want to shoot for " it goes out style before it fails "

@@tnrcleancare7847 that seems like a reasonable expectation. Seems things go in and out of style rather quick these days.

15 years plus low end 30 years plus high end

If tile is installed correct it can last the life of the homeowner and beyond. Its just a matter of it going out of style. Ive tore out old mud/lathe showers that were done in the 1960s and they were still extremely solid and perfectly flat. The grout might need to be repaired down the road but tile/mortar should last! There are marble jobs in historic buildings that have been around for centuries! Now as far as how many years all the new technology will last remains to be seen. No one knows for certain if a kerdi shower will hold up 30 plus years.

Till the house sees a bulldozer.

Yep, i abandoned those drains for the flowfx bonded drains

Dont use 2x4s for a curb no matter what method you use to waterproof.

Nothing wrong with that. It's personal preference.

Support the fiberglass pan well because the flex causes caulking to crack commonly.

Going to try concrete curb wish me luck

Pfiff! Yellow, it’s not even a pretty color…… just kidding 😁 Cheers 🍻

O.TILE