Ordered a Shine mate EP802 rotary today, was on sale for 129€ (norm 199€). Will try to fix a windshield, requires rotary, with Mirka E3. Of course I'll also go on the paint also. Used my Mirka pneumatic orbital sander, 5mm throw, 10 years ago when I didn't even know it was possible 😀. Yes I live close to the Mirka factory in Finland. Without your videos I might not has gone for the rotary but a cheap 15mm 5" orbital instead and skipped the windshield. New subscriber.
This is such a confusing topic when you get into detailing. Yvan has made the most sense over the years into polishing along with Apex and the Rag Company! There is a lot to learn and everyone has their preferences! Thank you for the video!
Again...reason people say they get a "better", or "faster" cut with a 5" vs a 6" is: With the same pressure, while yes the 6" had a larger surface area, the 5" actually puts down more power because the applied pressure is spread across a smaller contact patch. You can actually do an experiment with an exaggerated version of this by using a 2" pad vs a 5" or 6", with a very heavy cutting pad like a microfiber. You will see that the 2" pass will have more marring/hazing than the 5" or 6", and would have cut/removed more of the same defect - all while applying same equal pressure to both machines, with an equal length pass.
If anything their explanation that Nick couldn't get a defect out with a 3", while Yvan could get it out by tilting a 6" on it's edge on a 21mm machines kinda proves my point. Because ultimately the contact patch was much smalller by tilting the machine on it's edge, which achieved a faster/stronger cut by applying all of the power of the machine to a smaller contact patch than even the 3" pad down on it's face at full contact.
Also the 75e has a 400W motor, and fhe LHR21 has 500W motor. Meanwhile the contact patch of a 3" at full contact is larger than the contact patch of a 6" pad on it's edge. While the rotational speed of the outside edge of a 6" is much higher speed as well, along with its larger 21mm orbit. All that combined, is to say that with same pressure you had much more power going to a smaller contact patch, which is why the cut was stronger/faster.
@@diydetailofficialYou might not, some people do. Some situations might call for a little pressure. However regardless of whether you apply perceived physical pressure yourself. Just the weight of the machine applies a certain amount of pressure on horizontal surfaces. However you can't tell me you don't apply "pressure" on vertical surfaces...how else does the machine stay on the panel? Point being regardless of how much pressure is applied, if that pressure is equivalent on a 5" or a 6", on the same machine (doesn't even have to be the same machine as long as the force applied is the same), the resulting force is greater per inch on a smaller surface than on a larger surface. It's just simple math: A 5" pad has a surface area of 19.63" A 6" pad has a surface area of 28.27" Now let's say you apply 20 ft-lbs of force to the pads. A 5" pad will exert 1.0188 psi (pounds per square inch). A 6" pad will exert 0.7075 psi (pounds per square inch). Now to be fair, a 6" pad has 44% more surface area than a 5" pad. However the 5" pad exerts 44% more pressure at the same applied force. Now the effect of surface area vs pressure on the actual material gets a little more complicated because of the variance in paint/clear type, type of polish, amount of polish, temperature, rotational force and speed, and work time. Which might warrant further investigation...however my point still stands, that a smaller pad has higher resulting pressure than a larger pad.
@@diydetailofficialOne last thing. Temperature. Most of the time even with the most aggressive pads on a 2 foot section, using two passes, at a travel speed of about an inch a second, you'll maybe get the paint immediately under the pad to about 140-150 F. Most pads will run a bit cooler, in the 110-120 F range, with wool as far down as 90 F. Those temps are well within the safety limits of modern car paints. Most modern paints will experience some instant failure above 300 F. Which is much higher than your average working temps when polishing/cutting. I guess if you don't know what you're doing, you could cause enough heat for some damage, though it probably won't be in the form of total system failure (ie. cracking, peeling, etc.).
I WAS one of those ones who was afraid of a rotary. I had used one a handful of times in the past, but always at higher speeds. I never even considered using the lowest speed. Even though I was afraid of it, I still picked up one @ Harbor Freight for $25 (about 25 years ago). It was heavy, awkward and had a loop handle that would get too close to the panel. Even so, about two weeks ago, after watching Yvan, I picked it up and polished the top surfaces of my Camaro with AWESOME results using his techniques and advice. Then I did an enhancement polish and jeweling step (rotary ONLY) on my MIL's entire SUV - it's the BEST job I've ever done on the car. I've since sold THAT rotary and picked up a different one @ Harbor Freight for $31 (I had a 25% coupon). This one is much lighter, turns slower at "2" than my original did at "1." Then yesterday, I did a light-medium enhancement on my niece's abused Honda Civic - WITH the rotary, again, incredible results ... I'm at the point I'm begging friends and family to let me do an enhancement on their cars so I can use the rotary even more. It's that much fun and that rewarding ... with less work.
I think the misconception that a smaller backing plate and pad will make 21mm random orbitals cut faster goes back to the days when detailers would get frustrated how easily they claimed Porter Cable's would stall out so they would use 4 inch pads which were less likely to stall out even if you applied pressure. Today's 21mm polishers are so much more powerful than the Porter Cable that pad stalling is much easier to prevent so going down to a smaller pad really doesn't make sense to me with a 21mm.
The original Porter Cable 7424, and the 7424XP are my absolute favorite tools to use. I have a set of Rupes polishers too. (21, Duetto, Mini, Nano). But the first one I reach for is the Porter Cable. I've been a drummer since 1986, that combined with how lightly I handle the machine doesn’t really bother me as far as vibrations, unless I go straight to drumming after polishing. 😂 Great to hear that Yvan had such trivia on it.
In my opinion, I like a quality built polisher! One you dont have to change the grease when its brand new! I see posts where detailers are changing the grease in their Milwaukee, Maxshine, Shinemate etc and it runs better and cooler!
I bought a cheap polisher off of Amazon, this thing had more vibration than a jack hammer then I invested time in watching 100s if not thousands of detailing videos and after months of changing my choice due to watching videos with my choices changing weekly jumping from one polisher to another I eventually bought a Griots G8 as I didn't want to big of a polishing surface as I also wanted it for my motorcycle and as the G8 comes with a 2in backing plate and just being for DIY it was a good halfway choice for me and the polisher is virtually vibration free.
i bought the milwaukee 15mm because i already have the batteries. It feels great to me but the only other machine i have had was a porter cable. I also have the maxshine mini and i like it because it has rotary capability. i kinda want to get a 6'' rotary. Watching Ivan with the rotary has inspired me.
So, if back in the day you worked with a single speed rotary, trigger as your speed dial, today DA is cake, and new rotary is heaven? I've been thinking about that Flex Kompact siince hearing a 5" pad can be used with it. Thoughts?
The reason we put 5" backing plates on 6" 21-20mm DA machines is for a bunch if reasons. One, is that they tend to run smoother, and easier to run on contours. Two is you tend to get less pad stall, and can put get the power of the machine down into the cut more efficiently. Three is you don't need a whole seperate set of 6" pads, and can just use your regular 5" pads. Now...if all you do is completely flat and large body panels, sure...go with the 6". But for the rest of us, what we gain in switching to a 5" backing plate is much more significant than the slight increase in light pressure cutting of the 6".
I always say go to Harbor Freight for the first polisher. Can get the Bauer 8mm, 15mm, or rotary, all for $100 or less. Change the grease to white lithium and thats the only polisher a hobbyist will need. The rotary is surprisingly smooth.
I recently bought the Hercules Brushless cordless 20v 7 inch rotary polisher with seperate Hercules 5ah extreme battery and rapid charger. $222.86 out the door. Before I even used it I opened up the gear box and there was 2 small pea sized hard wax grease only by the drive gear but not on it...Cleaned it all out and repacked the whole gear box with Lucas Oil Red and Tacky grease...It run's smooth and quiet and on the lowest setting 800rpm you can barely hear it running...I can wax or polish a whole SUV and the battery is only half used...Doing a one step correction it will use the whole battery but it gets the job done. This is a great polisher with plenty of speed and torque...You can also use 6 or 6.5 inch pads as the hook and loop velcro is only 6 inches wide. Tool only is $79.99...
I'm a weekend warrior, I did a few cars including my own with a 9mm DA ADBL Roller, and this is my first machine, the results where quite nice (did a cutting step and wanted to do a finishing one but ALL of the times didn't need to, no haze at all) but I didn't removed the defects I wanted, still what was a bit annoying to me was the process, especially the stall and the time that went into polishing (didn't use your system as your products still are a niche here in Poland and hard to get) now I bought a 21mm Vonroc, hope it will speed up things, I will use less agresive pads on it to see how it will one step, hope my reasoning is sound :)
I started polishing with a drill adaptor to be able to use a backing plate with my milwaukee cordless drill. I found good results with that, which is essentially a rotary, so I bought the milwaukee m18 rotary polisher and I don't regret it. It cuts well if you need it to and it leaves a superb finish. I've just bought some gold standard polish and I'm looking forward to trying it
@@diydetailofficial I do want it. I like the idea of your waffle pads and not having to tape off plastic, but my distributor doesn't have them yet as they only have a limited range of your products at the moment so I will have to wait for now
Been searching periodically for a while now what the difference between random orbital and dual action is, and ive heard several conflicting definitions. I was under the impression that DA=RO interchangeably and Forced Rotation was its own term. But im glad to finally get a solid answer here.
This covered A LOT. Thanks. One question: in the super quiet space, there’s Flex. Any others worth trying for that? I know Yvan mentioned noise cancelling AirPods once (lol) but looking for a more ninja approach.
Gear driven tools i love but they must be a dual mode polisher, most are not. he makita bo6050 is a great one. Spins to the right and is a great sander with 5 mm orbit pad braked random mode. To me gear driven is easy after 30 years but then every polisher is easy to me. 12mm i like for finishing when im not going to finish with rotary which i love to do but not every single time. A smaller pad is more aggressive on a random orbit whereas on rotary a bigger pad is more aggressive. But surface area does matter too like you said yvan so 5 or 6 there is not that much difference. However 3 inch random is a defect destroyer due to such a small pad. I bet more people will strike through nodern thin paints with a big orbit random before they do with a rotary. I finished many cars with my metabo sxe450 dual orbit turbo tech that's 2.5mm and 6mm orbit over the years, it finishes paints out great
@@diydetailofficial when it comes to machines im always going to do so. Used dozens and dozens of them and some that are not that well known in our industry
Great video guys‼️🔥 You make things so easy to understand and offer great usable advice. Your videos are also not only educational and informative. They're also fun and captivating. Keep 'em coming.
Enjoyed the video. Would have liked to hear more of your opinion on the G9. 1st time picking up a polisher was the Maxshine 15mm. Went with the G9 as I only do my cars. Used it a few times and really enjoy it. Maybe down the line will grab the 15mm.
I just went through this dilema as a new weekend warrior. I actually bought both G9 and Maxshine M8S V2 in order to feel them in hand. The G9 feels amazing for a started polisher. The M8S v2 is a very close 2nd to me.
@@chrisginoc took a paint correction class and gave the maxshine a try. I’m sure some of it was because it was my 1st time but felt I didn’t have complete control of the machine. When I asked the instructor about which one to go with he said as a weekend warrior to go with the G9, if I was doing multiple cars a day 15mm. No regrets with the G9.
I have a new car that I'd love to do a simple enhancement on before ceramic coating; however, there are a couple spots with minor scratching from delivery. Would a random orbital sander take the scratches out with just the gold waffle or even red waffle pad? Would I just have to do extra passes or would it not work at all? I'm talking a few 4 inch areas. Thanks!
Thank you for this great video! If you could only choose between the Harbor Freight Bauer Random Orbital Palm Sander 2.8 amp 5 inch, or the Bauer 5.7 amp 6 inch Short Throw Random Orbit DA Polisher for someone who just wants to remove light scratches and polish+wax once or twice a year which one would you choose? It's all I can afford at the moment after adding the pads and polish.
Hi DIY Team, would the rotary jeweling pad be able to finish/remove polishing defects even after a heavier compound stage with a 15/21 DA/Wool pad? Or is it necessary to have an in the middle pad such as the yellow waffle to refine to heavier cutting defects?
Do you know if anyone makes a battery powered rotary? If not, wondering if Yvan or Nick has any weight in the industry to suggest to a manufacturer to make one?
Hi everyone, I am new to polishers and polishing machines. Most channels I watch, I am hearing the term cut. Could someone explain that term to me. Enjoy this channel.
@@phenixwars1 if you google "harbor freight palm sander" it will be one of the first ones, Bauer for $19.99. if you don't see it tell me, maybe I can send it to you somehow
cut with a wool pad (bit.ly/GoldStandardWoolPad) on a 21mm DA, then finish with the rotary and a foam pad on speed 1...we love our new Rotary Jeweling Pad: bit.ly/RotaryJewelingPad
@diydetailofficial ty for your response... I saw Ivan with the UDOS 51....with Pan The Organizer... Nice machine $700.00...quality machine. But also the G9 has excellent reviews all around with super customer service... Any thoughts on the G9 or a Makita? Ty so much.
I found my cordlress dewalt orbital in my garage today, forgot I had one! Opened it up and it looks like there is a small belt inside, is that what I should remove? No large pad brake to remove from what I could tell....
@@diydetailofficialso if I plan to polish my new car with the orbital I’ll be fine. If I try and do my parents car, theirs will def need correction, maybe two step. Can the orbital do something like that or will I need to actually get a DA? Obviously test but would the purple pad on the orbital work then move to yellow pad?
I have the gold standard kit and G9 and went over some micro maring. Came out very glossy but didn't remove as many scratches as I thought it should. Would working it longer be effective or would I need the wool pad?
Great advice as always! Just removed the pad break from my Dewalt DCW210 and I'm purchasing the gold standard polish and pad. According to the manual, the sander can go from 8000 to 12000 orbits per minute (setting 1-7). What setting would you recommend for a light polish to prep for a ceramic coating?
I see you're using the wool pad with the palm sander in this video, in others the waffle pad. does it make a big difference on the palm sander? what about the red pad?
In other vids I have seen you say you use a da/orbital for cutting and a rotary for finishing. What do you recommend for someone who can’t afford both. But wants a decent cut and the polish?
This year I've been experimenting with the Rotary using foam waffle pad and system 4000 pad washer with very good results. I'm not a pro so have a quick question.... if doing a freebie cleanup on a friend/family car, what's the quickest and best combo of pad/polish to one-step it with goal to be best cut but still have decent gloss that doesn't require finishing? G9 w/ Eurofiber pad, Flex w/ orange pad, or rotary with light cutting foam pad? Chemical would be AIO or a pad dependent polish with quick ceramic spray after. Thanks for any insight you can provide.
It’s very hard to provide advice outside of our line up. I would say rotary with our yellow waffle pad or red jeweling pad and gold standard polish is my advice!! I would do a test spot with each and choose the combo that gives you the results you’re looking for
@@diydetailofficial hey! Look at the Makita cordless polisher. It flips between DA and forced rotation. I wonder if it would spin out on DA Mode then flip it to back to forced rotation
@@patricktuggles4815That should work. The reason the forced rotation polishers don't work with the pad washer is not because the throw is too small, it's because the rotation speed is too slow (usually less than 1000rpm). If the polisher has a setting for free spinning da mode, the rotation speed will be much faster (not on the paint of course, because of "stalling") and will dry the pad just fine.
Hi Yvan & Nick - looking to branch out into a DA polisher (a brand new beginner) I’m in UK. Love the idea of your Gold Standard polisher and waffle pads - where can I get both polisher & pads from in UK? Or do I need to purchase these from US?
@@diydetailofficial Maxshine M8S V2 (technically heard it's the same internals as Griot G9 and Adam's) at $129 is a steal with less vibration than Bauer or sub $100 models. Pros: Price, Quality Build, excellent customer service, half clicks on speed dial, comes with 5" backing plate installed Cons: Polisher bottom not as ergonomic as the G9, trigger is on top and I prefer on bottom, speed dial is at bottom near cord and for beginners that's negative in the learning curve. Griot's G9: Pros: Feel in hand is excellent with ergonomics, less vibration than a Bauer or cheap polisher, customer service is 2nd to none, trigger at bottom and speed dial are better positioned for beginner or advanced. You can grow into the G9 and still use it once you're a pro, but you won't grow out of it as quickly as a Bauer or cheapo polisher. Cons: Price new is $169 (used you can find it under $120 if you get lucky), Griot rarely has sales on it, need to buy 5" backing plate because it comes with 6"
I have an orbital polisher featuring an 8mm throw with a standard 5 inch backing pad. Is the DIY 5.5, inch detail gold standard Waffle Pad the best fit? I just don't want to purchase an incorrect size!
Great video! I'm still waiting for my PC 7424XP to break down. I've had it now for fifteen years and plan to get a cordless Milwaukee or FLEX. As a DIYer, I can't justify the price of a cordless RUPES. It sure took them long enough to come out with a cordless D/A.
Hello! I started detailing with a Torqx 15mm kit from Chemical Guys. The lowest rpm I can get is 1800... Would this work or should I get a different DA random orbital? I don't want to throw something out that's still mechanically sound, but if it's not ideal, then maybe I have to repurpose the current one for something else.
That's a dual action polisher, correct? If so, just use it on the middle speed setting. We recommend polishing with a rotary on the lowest speed setting (to finish down or polish after the compounding stage)
@@1stfrompuertorico568 Que mal por mi, solo entiendo algunas cosas otras no , y por eso utilizo el traductor de RU-vid pero por alguna razón no funciona, pero con vídeos más atrasados sí funciona...😅😪
there are actually a number of 12mm machines still out there. Maxshine, ToRQx, Rupes, etc...Griots Garage even has the smaller odd sizes like 9mm and 13mm as well . inregards to a smaller pad Especially on a Rotary. I ws told by Jay at Lake Country, and he gave me abunch of differnt formulas, He said that a Rotary especially a 3" , cut 3 times faster than a 8or 9mm DA. Crazy I know because you state the opoosite. I have the email he sent me with the entire explanation ,etc.
