really appreciate you taking the time and effort to put up this video - i'm returning to sport climbing after a 10+ year hiatus and this was an extremely helpful refresher!
Great video, thanks for the first-person POV. I have led a few routes in my short time climbing but haven't cleaned my own yet. This gives me a little confidence to actually see what goes on up there. Thanks for sharing!
Great video! I hope to accomplish my first lead this summer (after personal instruction, of course), but this video is great. Now I know what to expect when getting to the top! Thanks for posting!
Thanks for this video. I was looking for a decent one to show a friend before I showed him in person. Surprisingly hard to find one where someone raps from the chains rather than being lowered.
This is a great video, your instructions are very clear, of course I'm not going to go up a route and start cleaning but I'm going to memorize this routine and practice now at my gym :)
awesome job -- thank you -- very detailed, I would still get a guide to walk me through it for the first time but your video is excellent overview of the sequence of steps.
Good comment Dayne. I always check every bolt as I climb and every link at the anchors. I have found countless bolts with nuts that weren't even finger tight, and I've found many quicklinks at the anchors with loose and/or open gates. I carry a wrench in my climbing bag so that I can do maintenance on a climb if necessary before my friends get on it.
Schoffal - let me get this straight. You trust two bolts you're directly attached to less than one bolt you would take a large dynamic fall on? What's more, in order to thread the rope for the rappel, you HAVE to go off belay, which means that a knot clipped into your belay loop is useless anyway. Clipping into two bolts is redundant and safe, assuming the bolts and rock are in good condition (which is easy to check). At some point, you have to accept a certain level of risk when rock climbing.
Good point! I was worried that someone might get a false sense of security in thinking that the rope might help them if they botched the procedure. By the way, I wear a Metolius Safe-Tech harness which boasts over-engineered Spectra gear loops (tested at 2250 lbf / 10kN). That should be enough to hold me and my rope even in a fall. Great harness! I recommend it highly! Especially considering that many climbing injuries occur due to harness/gear usage errors even with experienced climbers.
Great video! Never thought of wrapping the rope around the leg to create a brake. Courious if the type of material the pants are made of could effect the friction of the rope around your leg.
Easier is not always better. By teaching beginners how to set up the rappel, they’re also learning valuable self-rescue skills. Please help to preserve the hardware at our crags. In many cases it’s actually easier to clean overhung or horizontal sections from a double rope rappel. With both ends of the rope on the ground, it’s easier for your buddy to help you stay in control as you swing over to where your quickdraws are.
Good point... but ONLY if you're cleaning a route that still has all the pro in place below you (i.e. hasn't been used for top-roping) AND your belayer is still on the other end of your rope (which mine is not) AND you tie back in with a secure knot and a locker (remember you don't have the end of the rope yet). Even with all that in place, that knot is only going to be there for a few seconds anyway.
Very nice and detailed video. I do have a comment and wondered if anyone else thought the same. I’m not currently a climber but have an interest in trying it out. This video is pretty damn scary in a sense as are the other videos on cleaning a sport climbing route. It’s just that it seems to be a lot of steps and instruction and if you fudge it up then you are dead. Maybe it doesn’t seem as bad when you are on the wall because I assume that one would be highly focused with a bit of adrenaline pumping.
Your fears are warranted - rappelling is one of the most dangerous parts of climbing. The best thing you can do is to hire a certified instructor. Once you learn the basics, you can use reputable books to add more techniques (e.g. different anchor configurations) to your arsenal of skills to determine what works best for your available hardware & risk tolerance.
Good eye! But, I intentionally load my device that way (with the teeth away from the break side) in order to minimize drag as I'm lowering myself. If you were to look at that particular device close-up, you'd see what I mean. I want the smooth (non-toothed) side of the device on the break end because if you turn it around so that the toothed end is down, the teeth bite the rope as it's going into the device... which adds drag.
Thanks for the comment and the input. In my opinion, the autoblock isn’t necessary at that stage because you’re still anchored directly to the chains with a sufficient amount of redundancy. Furthermore, at that point, it may cause confusion (and additional risk) for someone who’s new to the process. Good point about the belay device, but watch carefully how I load the rope into it without ever taking the device’s retaining cable off of my locking biner.
This isn't lowering off the anchors, this is rappelling off the anchors. The rope isn't moving through the anchors. Being lowered off the anchor means you stay tied in and your belayer lowers you. The rope is then being dragged through the anchor chains, which causes wear over time.
Good question. Routes that have big overhangs or horizontal sections will always require some creative maneuvering to get to all the bolts regardless of the cleaning method that you employ. If you’re not comfortable cleaning a difficult-to-clean route, get a more experienced friend to do it. Then, watch and learn. There are some quick and easy tricks that you can use, but they would be too hard to describe without actually making another video.
Good thought but you might want to watch that part again. I always tie an overhand on a bight and then clip it onto a gear loop. The reason I use a gear loop instead of the belay loop is covered in an earlier comment. You might want to check it out. Thanks for your comment.
In my experience it really doesn’t matter. I’ve done it in many different kinds of pants and even on bare skin. It takes a little practice to get it good and tight, but with three good wraps, I’ve never had any issues with slippage. Let me know if your experience ends up being any different.
@z4yourself My point was that a leg loop (or the anchor itself) is a better place to which to attach the rope precisely because it can bear the weight of the rope. Though gear loops are quite strong, there are much more reliable places to attach something as important as your rope. Consider what would happen if the gear loop that held the rope broke. It will always be preferable to attach the rope to a leg loop or the chains.
Great video! I do have one inquiry. The bolts for this particular route seemed almost completely vertically aligned. Do you ever encounter problems when cleaning a less than directly vertical sport climb with this method (i.e. one that changes directions to where the bolts are underneath each other)?
It's better if you place the overhand knot on your belay loop with a locking carabiner not the side loops. So in case something goes wrong with your sling or anchor you will drop on the next draw below not on the ground
WARNING Personal anchoring systems like I'm using in the video are NOT designed to take static falls. An article that I read recently described in detail how those things can fail on surprisingly short falls from static anchors. One more good reason to always have a redundant connection between you and the rock! Since the video was made, I've dumped the anchor system that's shown in the video. Now I prefer to use two super long quickdraws that work nicely for almost all cleaning applications.
Hmm... Have you tested the effectiveness of a firemans belay with one of your ropes running through the quickdraws? It seems to me like there would be a whole lot of slack to pull out of the system before the firemans belay starts effectively braking the rappeller.
I realize this is an older video so this may not be seen but I believe you set up your atc backwards. The braking side with the teeth is supposed to face down towards the unweighted side of the rope
Good question. Some cleaning situations require a lot of creativity and sometimes there's no way to do it without donating some gear to the climb. I always keep a couple of quicklinks and some webbing on my harness. Once you understand the basics of how cleaning works, you can improvise according to whatever worthless mank you find at the top. Safety first!!! If you're not comfortable with what you find at the top, get lowered from your last pro and let someone with more experience clean it.
2. The leg wrap only frees your hands to make removal of the PAS easier, it doesn't take the place of an autoblock or a fireman's belay for lowering. Good comment though. I've found it's hard for a beginner to get a friction hitch configured properly to facilitate easy removal of the PAS since it has to be just the right length and you have to move it up the rope in order to put slack into the PAS for easy removal. The leg wrap is pretty fool proof and works great for that step of the process.
I prefer to focus on a bomber PAS and back it up with more hardware if necessary. Ultimately, while cleaning, I don't believe it's good protocol to think of the rope as a reliable connection point until AFTER the rappel is set up and weighted while the PAS is still in place.
So what would I do to add an autoblock to this in case I let go? I've rappelled with an autoblock on single rope, but does it also work on double ropes? I feel like it would slip or I wouldn't be able to get all 4 wraps with a 13.5" autoblock sling. Also is there a way to retrieve the rope, but use a single rope rappel? Or would that just be ridiculous and significantly harder?
It could be the angle of the lens but when you threaded the rope through the chain the angle it formed with the bolts seemed more than 90 degrees. With the extra length of the quick draw it made the angle much lower.
So is it enought to use only one PAS? Sure you clip into two individual bolts but still its only one point attached to your harness? I just ordered one but now im getting second thoughts...
Many climbers feel a single PAS is sufficient, but it still makes me a little nervous. I prefer two slings girth-hitched individually to my harness's soft-gear loops with a locking biner on each.
1. Thanks, and good point. Realistically speaking, it's tricky to rig an anchor that will truly stay taught on both sides throughout the whole cleaning process. If I rig my PAS optimally, the longest static fall that I could possibly experience would take up about six inches of slack. Do you know what the stats are for dyneema failure from a short fall off of static anchors? I don't. That's why I've gone back to good ol' fashioned bomb proof 1" tubular nylon webbing.
You said do it repel directly off the chains right? In the video it looked like you repelled directly off of the chains -just an unexperienced climber trying to learn thx
[schoffal commented - I give you 1 scenario. If the 2 bolted anchors accidentally fail during you thread the rope through chains with the rope attached to the gear loop. Imagine what will happen to you? You have to think, where the rope you have to attach to save your life if something happened. Better attach the rope with a carabiner to the belay loop before release the figure 8. Then you can thread the rope to the chains. At least you still save with the last quickdraw below you if the 2 bolted anchors fail. Correct me if i am wrong.] answer - he falls to the ground because he has already been taken off belay
Do you attach your personal anchor system through your belay loop or through both hard points? I have started to use two slings girth hitched to harness with lockers on the ends and have been girth hitching both through the hard points. However, when I tie in as well, the hard points seem to be quite clustered and I was wondering if anyone had an opinion regarding safety/wear and tear on slings using this method? It seems safer because with them girth hitched to the belay loop, it is three way loaded which i know is never good and it seems like one sling is definitely taking more load than the other. Opinions? Thanks.
According to the manufacturer recommendations of the Metolius PAS 22, the anchor system is to be girth hitched to the main loops of your harness. The same place you'd tie in with your rope. I'm not saying the belay loop can't work, but just know that it's not the recommended way to tie your personal anchor system
How do you know that the parking garage at the mall isn't going to collapse on you? It's all about trusting the engineers that design them (and the dirtbag climber that probably hung them). Anchors do break! They are NOT designed to be shock-loaded (part of the reason we use dynamic ropes). A guy died at one of my local crags a couple of years ago because he shockloaded a set of anchors with a static rope on a rappel. Treat every anchor with skepticism and remember... redundancy is mandatory.
When you load your rope into the ATC backwards (I.E. toothed face facing downwards) it creates a lot of extra friction that can seriously heat up your belay device. I prefer z4's method.
treksez some people think the brakes garb too much and just use that side for belaying. depending on the thickness of the rope, the non-teeth side can be plenty of friction.
So everything i've read about cleaning the routes has had a few people lecture about not lowering off the anchors. is this lowering off the anchors or.... I don't really understand what that means/ what the alternative is
I'm a beginner and was wondering how do you clean your quickdraws from a sport route if you don't make it all the way to the top anchors? Do you just do the same thing (with no redundancy) on your highest/last quickdraw?
The safest thing to do is just leave the draw, they aren’t worth much relative to your life. You can’t do the same thing because there aren’t chains at every bolt.
Safety is paramount, but as you can see from the video, even with no teeth engaging the rope, I still have to shove the rope into the device as I begin to lower. Furthermore, in addition to a manageable amount of friction in my device, I have a trustworthy friend giving me a fireman’s belay. Good comment though... I'm a huge fan of safety.
But when you repel the top of the rope is always engaged into the piece. So with your break hand you pull it away from the teeth. How you have it the teeth are always running on the rope without ever coming off. The only way for the teeth to not bit the rope is when your weight comes off. Think of it this way your weight is pulling you down while the rope is pulling up. So the moment you put weight the top part engages with the rope. So when your break hand comes off the lowest point is the top.
A few observations. It's a good vid, just not for pure beginners. 1. If you're using a PAS, both attachment points should be taut. Most of these are made out of dyneema now, and strength is significantly reduced if shockloaded. 2. Teach them a proper friction hitch instead of leg wraps. The Klemheist is simple. Rig it first, then the weight of the rope into the device becomes a non issue because you have a free-hanging bight to feed in.
Thanks for the comment but please remember: Once you're off belay, it doesn't matter what your rope is tied to (as long as it can bear the weight of the rope of course); if you screw up the procedure, you're going to eat dirt anyway! Also, if you're cleaning a top-roped route, there's probably no pro between you and the ground anyway, even if you were still on belay. Remember, we're setting up to rappel, not to be lowered through the anchors. REMINDER: Cleaning can kill you!
Clear video, but you never wrap your rope around your leg. Thats just asking for an injury should you fall. Install your autoblock instead of wrapping the rope around your leg. Also using a leg loop for an autoblock application is also a bad idea......leg loops are not designed for full weight application especially for a factor 2 fall, plus if a fall was to happen, using a leg loop will most definetly cause you to flip upside down. What would have been better, would have been to install your ATC on your daisy chain which would have gave you a little extention, and then install your autoblock below the ATC and attach it to the belay loop.
"Clear video, but you never wrap your rope around your leg." Leg-wraps are used by climbing guides around the planet and are totally valid. "Also using a leg loop for an autoblock application is also a bad idea......leg loops are not designed for full weight application especially for a factor 2 fall, plus if a fall was to happen, using a leg loop will most definetly cause you to flip upside down." Autoblocks connected to leg loops are also par-for-the-course around the world. Extending the device and having the autoblock off the belay loop is fine as well. Lastly, care to explain how they might manage a Factor 2 when cleaning an anchor lol?
As I said.....just because it is used by some around the world still doesn't make it safe.....bad idea. Even harness manufactuers will tell you, the leg and gear loops on a harness are NOT designed for that purpose.
I wouldn't have removed both quickdraws. I would have kept the rope through one of them and on belay so as not be be relying solely on the PAS to keep me safe but then those are just my thoughts
you dont, thats the risk youre taking. most chains on routes are made or some kind of saudered steel. That being said, they are meant to withstand thousands of pounds of pressure. Remember these things take nearly no force because as they are the top anchors they dont take many dynamic or static falls (i hope) You should inspect them for yourself and make sure they are too edgy and always rap down to preserve the life. If you're wondering on specific KN ratings go to your local climbing gym.
This video was meant to outline the basics of cleaning, not hash out the intricacies of how to load a particular rappel device. If you watch the video again and look very carefully, you can see in several places (as I’m lowering) that the way I have it set up, the teeth on the device never engage the rope. They come close, but trust me, they don’t contact. I’ve done this a million times and I’ve watched it close-up and personal. Thanks again for your comments though.
In general, I think this is good instruction but I think some things can be done to make it a little safer. Specifically since sharing with the public as instruction, this should have been included. 1. Have a locking biner on the PAS attached to the anchor side. Removing gear, threading rope and grabbing the chains you can easily open an non-locker. Since you are pulling up, you are also unweighting the rope meaning it could slide out. Hopefully you have two attachment points and are already set up to rappel, so the result wouldn't be a ground-fall but just loosing part of your system and giving you a bit of a scare. 2. The anchor should be equalized. For case #1, you would shock load the right anchor a little. Since the PAS is nylon, should be fine but the phrase 'should be' is not a comfortable one in climbing. 3. If you have the opportunity to girth hitch the PAS to your belay loop it takes one component out of the system that COULD be removed. Since you are setting up a biner for your rap device, you don't want to mix up those biners on accident. Again, these are ways to make cleaning safer. The method above is not unsafe, but I believe the recommendations I've added make it safer with a minimal increase in time to clean. Points 1 and 3 would be setup prior to climbing, and #2 can be done before the climb if you already know the spacing of the bolted anchors.
DO NOT TRY THIS FOR YOURSELF without receiving hands on instruction from someone who is qualified. This video is helpful for those without such resources, but remember to always back up your rappel with a fireman's belay or, even better, autoblock below your rappel device. Also, when attaching the rope to your harness before untying, ALWAYS ATTACH IT TO SOMETHING THAT IS LOAD-BEARING, i.e. a leg loop or belay loop. A gear loop is not intended for such loads and should not be trusted.
The reason why you may have felt the rope drag is that your ATC was backwards lol The teeth should be facing the "climbers end" not the load end. This helps breaking as the rope bites into the break hand. Simple rule of physics, the greatest about of force is felt at the lowest point of a stopper or knot. Hence that being the lowest point of the ATC.
I give you 1 scenario. If the 2 bolted anchors accidentally fail during you thread the rope through chains with the rope attached to the gear loop. Imagine what will happen to you? You have to think, where the rope you have to attach to save your life if something happened. Better attach the rope with a carabiner to the belay loop before release the figure 8. Then you can thread the rope to the chains. At least you still save with the last quickdraw below you if the 2 bolted anchors fail. Correct me if i am wrong.
Things always take a lot longer when you're showing and explaining them. When I'm doing it without a camera, it probably takes around two minutes. When I'm doing it in an electrical storm I can cut that to about fifty seconds. Cutting corners to do it any faster than that is just plain sloppy and not good protocol.
Whether your rope is running directly to the ground or through some quickdraws, there should be little or no slack in the system when you begin your double rope rappel. Even if a bit of rope gets pulled between the quickdraws as you're coming down, as long as your belayer pulls both ends of the rope tight, the fireman's style belay should create enough friction in your rappel device to arrest your descent. In other words, the affect of the fireman's belay should be immediate.
Don't attach the rope to your gear loop while you're cleaning, put it on the belay loop as it then acts as another protection point should your PAS fail.
