How a sigma can be used to defraud people. Also how ice and temperature and relief can affect gold testing on these machines and why they are not cracked up to be what people claim.
The resistivity of any metal changes with temperature, so the PMV and the sample need to be at the same temperature. The PMV checks the ambient temperature and adjusts its expectation for resistivity accordingly. But if you pull a coin out of a cold mailbox or a hot car while your PMV has been sitting inside at room temperature, (or, say, you intentionally place the metal sample on ice to cool it below the ambient temperature), you won't get an accurate measurement. The sample must fully cover the sensor, which is the black circle on the base unit, or the face of a wand. So testing the 1/10 oz coins, the strip of gold, and the quarter on the main sensor, are all improper uses of the tool. That's covered in the manual and the sensor selection chart. The Small Wand is also not the best choice for testing larger poured bars. The Large Wand or the Bullion Wand are more suited for those applications, and the Bullion Wand is the best at overcoming surface relief variations. If you are going to use the Small Wand on larger items, you need to measure on flat areas, not directly over deep stamping. Finally, and most importantly, the PMV measurement is only HALF of the test. You must always check the size and weight of a sample in conjunction with a PMV measurement, to confirm that the density is correct. Copper and silver alloys can match the resistivity of gold, but they are significantly less dense than gold. A copper or silver fake will be drastically under weight, or drastically oversized, compared to gold. A tungsten (or, theoretically, platinum) fake can match the density of gold, but will fail the PMV test. With the very rare exception of some sophisticated "drilled and filled" fakes, which are typically limited to larger bars, any common gold or silver counterfeit will fail either the PMV or the size/weight check, if not both. The PMV is a very useful tool, but any tool is only as accurate and reliable as its operator. Users need to take the time to understand what the PMV is measuring, take care to use the appropriate sensor, and always interpret the PMV measurement in conjunction with checking the size and weight of the test subject.
Alwasy remember - "the biggest bug sits in front of the machine". :) I would always use more then one method to test, for gold I would test: size, weight, magnet (use a strong Neodym magnet) and then I would use PMV or even better PMV Pro. But remember even that won't be a 100% result! If you want to use more methods to test gold - you should also have a look at: gold water test and gold x-ray fluorescence analysis.
The pro mini makes checking coin size easy. But assay packages can make the size check more difficult if not impossible. You can get a digital scale that measures in troy ounces and grams and goes up to 1 kilo at Harbor Freight for about $12.
Thanks I've had a 4 hr argument with my brother that the sigma isn't the end all when it comes to testing silver and gold. I told him that every system has its flaws and this one is no different.
a closer observation will reveal that anything containing high copper will actually give a reading to the left side of the brackets. This is for both gold & Silver settings. Pure gold or silver will only read to the left if the sample is higher purity than the selected setting
The Sigma Metalytics only checks against electrical resistivity. Which any metal can be manipulated to have an apparently lower measured electrical resistivity than it normally has at room temperature by subjecting it to extreme cold. Also, different coins made of different alloys of entirely different metals can have overlapping conductivities/resistivities due to the natural laws of physics. The machine does not change the laws of physics, it only measures them. And only one component of them. By publishing this information in a misleading way that could easily by used by crooks to cheat people, you are hurting the precious metals community and investors, including your own customers. By not including information that could be used to supplement or complement the information provided by the Sigma Metalytics, such as the usage of specific gravity testing (weight and volume), magnetic testing, or any other rudimentary scientific test that could either support or dispute the conclusions one might draw from the readings of the Sigma Metalytics, one could argue that your video is journalistic malpractice at best and potentially libelous at worst, since your video accuses the Sigma Metalytics company of selling a faulty product that misleads its users - when it does no such thing. As the user manual states in explicit writing, the Sigma Metalytics can only measure the electrical resistivity of a coin. It cannot measure the nuclear content or atomic weight like an XRF or other scientific lab equipment can. The manual explicitly states that the resistivity/conductivity of one metal can appear similar to alloys of different metals. Your video implies that their manual does not inform the user of this. As the manual states, the Sigma is one tool among several required to have essential basic confidence in the authenticity of a coin or bullion item. The Sigma alone does not guarantee the authenticity or proper metallic composition of an item. No machine can do that, not even an XRF, since an XRF only penetrates a few microns into the outer layer of a coin or bar, nowhere near the core of most standard bullion coins or bars. If slabbed coins can be easily tampered with, then stronger safeguards are needed with slabs to prevent tampering with those coin holders. And stronger inspection methods are required across the board for slabbed coins. That issue is not the fault of Sigma Metalytics. And generally speaking, any coin of high value in a slab is usually worth beyond its' mere bullion value, so the Sigma alone is not the best metric for verifying those types of coins. A human coin grader is, since a fake coin in a slab can be made of the real metallic composition of the authentic version of the coin in question (and yet still be a counterfeit). Your video is hostile to the only advanced piece of scientific equipment that is affordable to the average gold or silver precious metals investor. Most of us don't have $40,000 for an XRF (that only penetrates a few microns into the metal, unlike the Sigma which can go deeper, as yet another advantage the Sigma has over the limits of XRF technology). The Sigma is a wonderful tool that will catch most counterfeits coins that emanate from China, Russia, Vietnam, Afghanistan, etc. Your video is useless and unproductive, and overall hurts the market more than it helps. (If it helps anyone at all). The primary concern for bullion investors in the last 10+ years has been the proliferation of fakes, as there are far too many of them. This machine can catch the vast majority of them. Deriding this useful machine publicly, then encouraging people to defraud others using manipulated metals, is acting in bad faith. I own some of your products. I won't be buying again because of this video. Perhaps you will one day come to appreciate the vast array of technology arriving to the market to verify precious metals, and that will continue to improve and advance with time. Ultrasonic thickness gauges, resonant frequency testers, electrical resistivity testers, etc. are all relatively new technologies. Some cheap, some more expensive. XRF is (currently) the most expensive, but penetrates the least into the subject metal, thereby allowing thickly plated items to appear as authentic when they aren't. One could make the case that XRF is more harmful to the market than the Sigma is. Deriding any of these technologies by claiming it isn't perfect is like claiming your Toyota Prius doesn't work because it wouldn't drive up a muddy hill at a 45 degree incline. Nothing can do something it wasn't designed to do. A smart person would have made a video explaining the nuances of this particular piece of technology. A fool would simply spread misinformation or dangerous information, like by publishing an instruction manual for criminals on how to commit fraud. Not a wise move.
This is a defense against the propaganda that is used to slam my products so people can understand these machines are not perfect. And can be manipulated and tricked with ease. People improperly use these machines to claim product that is pure is not. A falsehood. Either by user error. Or by ignorance or malice. People love to pick on small business and ruin them. And this tool is used by such individuals to do just that. I would consider a remake. But it's up to the the few people out there that understand and get it to right the numerous wrongs out there. It is important people have skepticism over machines that have these setbacks and limitations. It's just a tool and method. The cheapest line of defense against bad coin is a magnet. A scale and understanding of size. The haters out there that nit-pick and claim foul because they don't read the Manuel. And don't have a greater understanding of science and the principals behind the ways of testing. Are the problem. As such. Videos to educate people of the dangers are a necessity. Especially in laymen terms. I appreciate your input on this matter.
@@prospectorsgold I am glad you would reconsider a remake of the video. I think it is needed, not only to prevent the spread of misinformation, but to protect your own public image. No one wants to do business with someone who comes across as emotional or angry. Even if you think your business name was slandered, you always want to come across as calm and cool-headed, not like some angry hothead with a defensive attitude. Your products have a certain rustic, classic aesthetic appeal to collectors of precious metals bars. But as with anything handmade, the surfaces are not perfectly smooth and waves naturally rise to peaks and troughs in the relief of such bars. The electromagnetic waves emitted by the Sigma Metalytic measure through the non-uniform surface and yield an out-of-spec result, naturally. Except when using the bullion wand on thicker parts of the bar, which should yield a much more accurate result, as the bullion wand was designed to be used on bars. In your new video, you can remind people that: 1) Variations in the relief can cause these erroneous readings. This doesn't mean the bar is fake or the Sigma doesn't work, it means the sensor isn't in the proper place or of the proper shape to mate to a non-uniform surface. The Sigma works best on a perfectly flat surface. High-relief coins or wavy bars may give off strained readings when tested by the Sigma, but that doesn't mean the coins or bars are fake, nor that the Sigma is inaccurate. 2) Disparities in the temperature between the tested object and the sensor will always yield distorted results, due to the laws of physics. For the most accurate results, both objects should be tested at room temperature to avoid this issue. Don't test something burning hot or ice cold with the Sigma. 3) An item tested as within proper range for the Sigma Metalytics test could possibly still be a counterfeit made of an alloy of metals that mimics the electrical resistivity of an authentic example. Usually, however, such fakes (like copper) utilize metals with a wildly different specific gravity and therefore can be discovered with a simple weight and dimensional measurement test. 4) It should be emphasized that a positive test on the Sigma is not definitive, only complementary to a variety of tests that are required to be confident in the composition of a coin or bar. (Just like for XRF, given the low penetration depth of XRF technology). No single test is definitive as to the composition of the entire object, only the part it is capable of testing, and the characteristic it is testing. This is why big banks and depositories use ultrasonic thickness gauges on .999 Gold 400ozt Good Delivery bars. Because an XRF doesn't penetrate more than 0.01 inches into the surface of the bar. Multiple types of tests being conducted on a single object are required to be confident in its' composition and homogeneity. 5) Any coin or bar that cannot be weighed, measured, and thoroughly examined (such as slabbed/graded coins) must inherently be treated with extra suspicion, given the barrier to verification the slab creates. Especially in this day and age of fake slabs with fake coins in them! Anyone who blindly trusts the Sigma test on a SLABBED coin without giving it further visual inspection (such as verifying the serial number, and checking the online NGC/PCGS database photos of the graded coin against the coin in hand) is a fool. 6) If fakes (perhaps someday in the near future) are sophisticated enough to match the Sigma resistivity number AND match up with the online photos, then no one could ever safely buy bullion coins in a graded slab again - only rare coins routinely subjected to microscope inspection/verification would be worth the effort of buying in a graded slab. 7) You must remind people to use the proper wand and CALIBRATION DISC for certain items they test with the Sigma. As the comments on your own page reveal, some people were using the Large Wand or Main Sensor for extremely small diameter or thin coins, which were not designed to work with those sensors. Only the Small Wand can be used with small coins, and thin coins are measured most accurately with the Calibration Disc placed physically behind them, as the user manual for the Sigma instructs the operator to do when measuring particularly small coins (like dime-sized or so). 8) Most importantly, don't instruct people on how to cheat people out of their money. Don't advertise or go into detail on any method that can be used to deceive people. RU-vid may remove your video, and people in the (small) world of precious metals collecting will see it as unethical/counterproductive. Instead, tell people what NOT to do in order to avoid inaccurate readings! Such as what I listed above. That way, it's entirely ethical, and accomplishes the same goal of preventing the dissemination of fakes. That's about all I can think of. Good luck.
Sadly this classic model has many flaws that have been discovered. Save up and spend the money on a mini pro or investor. If you are investing in gold its less than a single 1oz coin.
I mean...its measuring magnetic fields so as long as the fields are close enough its going to tell you its whatever you want it too . that sounds the opposite of infalible to me. Great video . i am new to this bullion amd numismatic world but i am QUICKLY seeing flawed thinking like these machines are the end all be all. Priceguides are hardset firm values. People tend to do the stacking and collecting thing for the wrong reasons and woth highly unrealistic expectations. Like it will make them millions of dollars after looking through pocketchange twice a week because obviously they will find all the rare coins and everyone will want to buy them for too dollar no questions asked....smh. Im 2 years into it and got this far by realising how this works . any REAL money being made quickly is from high volume transactions. Buy 5 million in silver or gold when its down a few bucks and sell it as soon as its up a few bucks. That makes money. Parcelling out individual ounces or fractionals of precious metals at industry standard prices have enough of an accepted premium and demand that that can make money with steady sales . dedicating hundreada of hours or more to find the best quality items for the lowest prices and flipping those is slower yet but still a real money maker when done right. What people do in General...just makes them look unreputable and highly misinformed
Thank you for this video. I was considering buying this Sigma. Not any more. It's too expensive not to be 100% accurate each and every time on every single item.
Wow!!!! great video; I was looking at some of the pmv checkers from Sigma; not so sure now; for the money of the tester, it must be 100% reliable in my opinion. I understand you placed some difficult parameters on it to try and trick the machine, but that is the point of the machine, you should not be able to trick it , it should be 100% reliable period, or it is just an electronic paper weight. Thanks again for the video!!!!
i agree with others that a calm collected remake, e.g. "How NOT to use the Sigma PMV", would be valuable. like you said below, there are lots of people (ignorantly) misusing the tool. Maybe going over some of the ways Sigma's manual says "it doesn't work" would be valuable to users or witnesses of users/dealers knowingly or ignorantly getting false readings. To me, every tool is just one tool in the tool box, and I prefer having more tools to a few. A legit question I have as a novice is, where would the Sigma fit in your normal evaluation process? Is it a good quick second step after a visual inspection? Would you put it through the normal process and double check at the end? Or does it do nothing that your normal process doesn't already do? (that could be a second vid by itself, i'm sure!) thanks for sharing your experience with us!
WOW thanks for sharing this, I was just about to buy one of these machines as I am considering getting into metals and making some small purchases. I guess I will stick with bitcoin for now until I have a better way of verifying gold and silver purchases. The great thing about bitcoin is that if you have a bitcoin wallet and there is a balance it is 100% legit genuine bitcoin 100% of the time. There are no fake bitcoin on the network as its a closed and cryptographically secured ecosystem. Very much appreciate this upload as it may have just saved me making a big mistake. Thanks bud :)
@@Michael-vf5id what were all the mistakes he made please? I’m new to all this and not sure how accurate the sigma machines are especially after watching this video. Be great to hear your thoughts or tips on it. Thank you.
@@MrMonero a handful of deceptive coin might pass as gold on the machine, but the diameter and weight won't even be close to a real gold coin. If you use this machine in combination with a scale, and calipers, and research the correct diameter, thickness, and weight of a coin, you'll never be fooled. Most fakes though (99%) are so bad that they will outright fail on a Sigma. Weighing and measuring the coins will catch that last 1%. So this machine is good to protect you from 99% of the junk out there. That last 1%, you just need to do the homework and with a scale and calipers you'll rule that out in 30 seconds. The newer sigmas (pro) versions will also do gravity test on the metals, so they will catch that last 1% all the time. They are a little more expensive, but If you don't want to bother with a scale and calipers too, it will rule out that last 1% for you without you needing to know anything else about the coin simply with the gravity test.
You clearly have no idea how to use this thing…. But hey, thanks for the heads up. I’ll watch out for any coin dealer trying to sell me a coin on ice. Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
