How to Determine if Your Car Deal is OVERPRICED | What is Payment Packing? 

Thanks for taking my question on. I did not buy this car and never got to negotiating because the numbers seem sweked. I ended up buying a 2020 Mazda CX5 GT for $30k OTD with more features.

This is classic "bait and switch". I had a situation with a co-worker about 10 years ago. She found a used vehicle that was advertised on the internet at $4000. When we got there, the price was $8000. I was so angry that as soon as I got home, I wrote a letter to the owner of the Capitol Auto Group. I then mailed that letter at the post office closest to the dealer group. In the letter, I told him that "bait and switch" is illegal in Oregon. I told the owner that I would be filing a complaint with the Attorney General's office. The next afternoon, I received a phone call from the owner. Not only would he honor the $4000 advertised price, but he also took another $500 off. I took my co-worker to the dealer and did the revised deal.

Wow! I’m so glad I watched this video! I live very close to several Napleton dealerships here in the Chicago area and now I know who I refuse to even entertain buying from. Big fat no on Napleton! Thank you!

Nothing new about this dealership… scum, thieves and liars. The one in Oaklawn Illinois is the biggest time waster and bait and switch with add on fees.

Napleton is a shady dealership. Had a bad experience at their Cadillac dealership buying a used Tahoe from them. They covered up problems with it. Wasn't a few days later and the vehicle had a check engine light on. They wouldn't fix it. They hid added fees to the monthly payment I got through them. Stay away from any Napleton dealerships! Thank you YAA for advocating for consumers.

PRO TIP: If a name is Hispanic, a double-L is pronounced like the letter Y in English. Ms. Arellano's last name would probably be pronounced "ah-ray-ON-oh". There are exceptions. But pronounce double-L's as Y's in peoples' last names and you'll be right more than 90% of the time.

What a great project for a dad and son - my dad passed almost 2 years ago; and I wish I had moments like this to look back on.

Napletons did me the same way. I went to see a car that was advertised as 37k and somehow after a $8500 trade in they still wanted me to finance 43k i said no way.

I've been to that dealer. I wouldn't recommend them

Napleton is a bunch of crooks. Went in to look at a car listed at $15k and the out the door was $26k after all their fees. They were willing to remove the fees in the end, but I didn't buy the car. Kinda regret that after some of my more recent experiences here in Chicagoland

Bought a new 2022 Kia Telluride. Local dealer (stealer) charges $10,000 markup above MSRP on all new Tellurides, and as much as $20,000 above MSRP for their USED Tellurides. Needless to say, I went elsewhere. Got one at MSRP, no dealer bogus add ons, paid cash. Drove an extra 2 1/2 hours, or 5 hours round trip. Figured I made $2,000 an hour for my drive, and I also did not reward BAD behavior on my local dealer's part. Best pay rate I have ever received in my life.

I was looking at a 2020 Chevy with 34000 miles for 32.000 dollars plus some fees now it 38.000 I got it back to 31900 and tax I said I will pay 29000 n tax he says he can't I leave 4 days later now in a new month its still not sold did I do the right thing

@yaa PRO-TIP: set the apple pencil to a thinner point and it will be easier for Ray to circle the prices/costs on the videos :).

The FTC just fined Napleton $10 million for sneaking illegal junk fees onto bills.

Car salesman today are weak. I can rattle them psychologically with little effort.

A friend of mine tried to buy a 2022 Hyundai Santa Cruz. Went to a particular dealer and they agreed to sell the vehicle at MSRP, but when the dealer delivered the car to his home and signed the paperwork,the fees and additional all profit products were $6K over MSRP. He walked away.

First off... I love you guys. Next...I tried to deal with Napleton in Indianapolis once. You are correct in what you say. They are not friendly, and they don't care about customer service. Horrible to deal with. I did not purchase a vehicle from them and never will I entertain going back to them.

I bought a Mazda 1/2022 due to totaled car. Shopped for overpriced used CX5's ~1-5 yrs old that had all the safety features - great car with excellent crash ratings. Couldn't afford new one so bought a new 2021 CX-30 AWD via Costco for $350 under MSRP in the existing inventory, acceptable solution for me when I needed a car for work ASAP. In Dec/Jan, dealers in my area were doing markups well over MSRP. Crazy that some used cars were priced at $5K over MSRP for new 2022 model.

Realistically most dealerships are now doing this, just so they know we will all remember it. Makes direct to consumer more appealing (we all would get ripped off equally,) and before anyone says dealership agreements are law, this has begun to change Tesla and now FORD will be selling direct to consumer (all there EV’s). Ford dealers were warned about there unethical price gouging practices by corporate, now all of the Ford EV’s Mustang, lighting are direct to consumer no dealerships needed.

I would love a suuuuuuper detailed video on leasing a car, especially in this nightmare of a market. It's been horrible out there. Super predatory. I went to one dealership where I said I wanted to look at a new Kia to lease and I didn't even find out until I was about to leave--because there was barely room for negotiations--that the dealer kept putting me in used cars because they were trying to get me to buy a used one. I'm nervous about going into negotiate a lease. Its confusing and sales peeps just try to further confuse, and patronize me because I'm a woman. I don't have the upper hand because I need a car and I need it to fit in my budget.

RUN from Napleton- CROOKS

YES! This should've been implemented from the very beginning. PROTECT THE CONSUMERS! I need to know how soon would this go into effect?

Imagine if this channel and scotty collaborated? It would be an amazing content calling out these scam dealerships!

NAPELTON ? More like RAPELTON

the best advice that can be given is to try anyway possible to stick with you current vehicle or buy a low cost beater to ride out this market. Car buyers just seem to be lambs before the slaughter right now.

Napoleon is the biggest group of scammers ive seen in the car business

Imagine going into a restaurant, sitting at a table or counter, ordering a blt and a glass of water. Then after you finish your meal and get the check, you see that they’ve charged you for not just the food you’ve consumed, but a plate fee, cup fee, sitting fee, utensils and napkins, floor cleaning fee, waitress fee, and cook fee. Your $10 meal easily becomes a $110 dollar meal. You know what? That kinda business sounds like it’ll work!

I don’t understand why you don’t advise (tell) her to walk away as they are trying to take advantage of her. If you’re offering advice, that’s the best advice. Zero trust!

Have your dad ever made deals he was no so proud of?

This is surprising. All dedicated Mazda dealers in our state are selling new vehicles at MSRP or lower. And this is awful close. I would look for a better deal.

Yes there is lots of dealers that operate in this manner especially in south east Florida

Question #1. Why trust any dealer?

I did buy a Ford from their Libertyville Ford dealership. It went well but going to their other dealerships sounded like the deal you featured in this video. There are several brothers that own these dealership from what I understand. The brother that owed the Ford dealership might not be the same brother that owns the Mazda dealership. I was told that the brothers are in competition with each other. I heard this at the dealership so I don’t know if I should believe any of them.

Going thru this deal is really helpful. I tell people all the time to do your deal school before they even ponder looking for a new or used vehicle!

You guys are great! Love the content, and the father son relationship here is refreshing!

Luv watching these two go back and forth. And the looks on Zack's face when Pops tries to use the pencil! ha ha

I'm buying a Chevy 2500by this Monday for cash. Dog bite settlement. Any how I live in Joliet, IL. I went to 2 dealers I have known in the area for 40 years. I got one guy to give OTD price to order what I wanted. They don't have many blue trucks or long beds. He gave me $2500 off MSRP and 8,000 for my 2017 Elantra. He did this $383 in doc me everyone charges that he said. I'm going to a dealer a friend of 15 years works at and showing hi him this OTD sheet. Hopefully they will do a little better. I said no add on s when delivery time comes. He says oh no we would not do that.

The first red flag that a car is overpriced is there is an addendum sticker added to the retail price.

I told them what I was paying out the door and the deal was wrapped up in ten minutes. I bought no dealer "extras", no financing, and there was no going back and forth to the sales manager game.

If it was me, I would laugh in their face. Id be like “this is the out the door price? You’re right it is. Watch me walk out the door. Bye.”

The fact that someone would turn to the internet to “know how to negotiate this deal” with a dealer that is clearly shady AF is mind blowing. Walk away. It’s very simple. It’s a Mazda CX-5. There’s absolutely NOTHING special about it. Go find someone else to buy the car from. Why would you want this dealer to make a single penny of profit from you? Give them the middle finger and strut right out of there. You get what you deserve if you don’t. People like this are feeding the madness going on right now.

Went to dealership today, for 2018 Toyota RAV4 with 16,000 miles priced at 25k. Great price right, considering I was going to buy same year model with 60k miles, no accidents and warranty for the same price last year from carmax.... Until I looked up the carfax, its shows it was in accident. (I showed up and was helped by two young kids in their early twenties. They emphasize the car "is sold as is" and didn't mention the car was in "moderate" accident) . I was going to leave 8k down but when it came down to it, total all was 30k. They tried to finance me at about 12/13% and monthly payments of 430. (Carmax was giving me better deal! 😢 )

You need to stop the camera movement so much on your faces it’s too much

Dealerships like this make me grateful for the transparency at my dealership. We have a non-negotiable market based price on pre-owned cars, but now I know why everyone always comes back after trying to haggle.

Lol 30k for a 2019 CX-5? I would have walked away. We bought out 2021 CX-5 touring for 29k brand new.

1. This happens everywhere - not just Florida. 2. Why is the price advertised as less online than in person? You mean you've never heard of a little scam called "bait & switch"? LOL

I live by that dealer. Took me a min lol saw the maps now I won’t go there lol.

Hi there, was wondering if it's ever okay to ask a salesperson via email or text for the OTD price before showing up to the lot?

Love your channel ❤ Annoying dealer of the week goes to Toyota They tried to add $3700 in markup fees and when I complained and said why didn’t you mention this…… before coming down I inquired what was the best price and you said our cars are priced to sell and we can be flexible. The worst part however is im not sure if the salesperson was shameless or picked her words poorly when she responded they don’t mention additional markups before you get to the dealership because people won’t come……….🤪

Please do a program ASAP MANY Dealership's are bring Canadian trucks and SUVs into America but I heard North American factorys like Ford will not honor any Factory Warranty including Rust or Corrison on vehicles imported from Canada Please help???

Napleton is horrible. They are charging 15% above MSRP for new cars. No other dealership in the area is doing that currently

When you say Out The Door price, does it mean includes sales tax, title and registration? Thank you :)

Excellent video Ray and Zach! Napleton is very prominent in the Chicago area. While it doesn't matter to me, this is good info for people who try and deal with them. I will not own anything other than a Lexus myself. 😊

You two are awesome!!! Thank you.

Did you get the dad joke? Zach mentioned moisturizer on his head and then asks about the fluff in the deal and then when Ray says fluff twice each time the camera goes close up on his head!!!

How to 'walk away.' Pound your fist on the table, knock over a chair, use profanity, piss on their desk (optional) and walk out the door acting angry and upset.

we just went to a car dealer we are looking at their website on the car we are interested telluride ex 2022 the msrp is $38090 now this salesperson say well that car we are looking up on their website he said it doesnt exist but then he said we have the car coming in next week but its market value selling price is $48080.00 we needed just the basic and the color of the car is not the one we wanted but seem this sales guy is trying to sell us a premium package and the total out of the door price is $52536.6 and he gave us a spread sheet of the figures we will be paying. we ask him to get us the figures of the basic package he said its going to be just 2000$ less and his asking price will be $50000🤦🏻‍♀️ but then this car is not there he have to order or get it from some other kia dealer and to ship it in he wants me to deposit $1000 in order for him to get the car in our location.can you advise me on what to do please thanks. i didnt sign anything or wrote a check.

I just got escorted out of dodge dealership for denying to pay 1600 for nitrogen in tires and “paint protection”. Bunch of vultures.

This was helpful. Looking at a Mazda myself.

If payment packing is illegal why is nobody charged

Napleton in Florida is shady

"Napleton" practices go on everyday down here in south Texas (rio grande valley) still using monthly payment as a negotiation and never giving an exact price or rate until you are in the financial office

Yes, from previous experience, Napelton is a sneaky dealer.

I have delt with the criminals at Napelton. I would never do business with them. Total waste of time.

If they won't negotiate price at all walk away! If you can't negotiate to the fair price on kbb, walk away!

One trick to avoid is where the salesman asks for your diver's license. At that point, you are a captive. I've seen it done on others but they don't get mine.

You keep making content I LOVE and need right now! I’m getting these papers currently and you are getting me all HYPED with a counter! More of these breakdowns please. Obsessed 😍

I would rather go to the dentist every day and twice on Sunday instead of buying a car.

I used to work at Napleton in Chicago area and they do suck.

Sad Toyota in Illinois tried the same thing with me and I walked out.

Reconditioning fee is a joke. We bought an used 2013 CX-5 in late 2018. Salesman was like, well we had fo replace the tires etc etc..... Salesman forgot that the tires have an "manufactured date".... wasn't even near to 2018-2017.

I hope she walked out of that deal.

You can tell these guys are related by looking at their noses.

Once Napleton took over the Kia dealership in our area got the same vibe, not surprised with these tactics..

Don't hold back; tell us how you really feel :)

I’d be interested to know what you’re feeling is on when they put a charge for nitrogen filled tires?

Guys...you are over-engineering this! It's...sime: DON'T PURCHASE THE FUCKING VEHICLE! PERIOD! Also, NEVER purchase a vehicle sight unseen on-line. Just...be *smart*!

Government fees and doc fees. Give me a break.

not saying this is the case but car prices do go up, esp these days. I’m not a fan of recon and other adds not clearly advertised but it’s the salesman’s job to explain that, it’s not his/her choice. Just for thought, advertising is always a little vague. biggest example is the MANUFACTURER lease adds.

It seems the price for a new car isn't much more than a used one nowadays

Times must be tough for these poor downtrodden dealers (he said dripping with sarcasm). Went for service at the local Subaru dealership and the only car in the showroom was a used Mazda Miata! Plus all the sales and service reps had been fired!

I never want to defend car dealerships but if your in Illinois the people at the Napleton Hyundai in Naperville/Aurora are pretty pretty good. Purchased 2 vehicles from them so far and they negotiated fairly. I got a pretty sweet deal on my sonata and an okay price on my wife's Santa Fe. So far no issues on either. They fix recall stuff right away (they contact you) and fixed any small issues or complaints I had with the vehicles THE FIRST TIME. You could get brutalized in the F/I office for sure if you didnt watch the YAA videos though with add ons.

When I go to build your Ford, I get a cost, yet when I'm at the dealer they say the build your Ford is for last year's model so the price is off. I'm in Canada. Can you explain. I'd love to, join YAA. Thanks for your information.

Keep Up The Awesome Work Ray N Zack..

How much should I negotiate for the 2022 nissan pathfinder SV 4WD, with the MSRP 41K plus 7% markup? Plus tax n title fee, will be around 48k

I'm looking at a 2022 Ford Transit Van the advertisement said the MSRP is 27,715 how much over should I have to really pay

FYI online calculator has $31,414 for 36 months at 3.9% is a monthly payment of $926. That's below the cited range!

Guy’s I just got me a 2016 Denali and used your methods to negotiate and gues what We went from 33,000 to 29,000 out the door price thank you guys for teaching us the way

Chevy did something crazy. They advertise the price but if you don't finance through them the charge you a fee. $5000

I reviewed 2 dealers advertising a 2022 Escape Titanium at 41K MSRP less $500 Ford Rebate. Dealer 1 says to me, we will offer you a generous 27K trade in on your 2018 Escape Titanium which is the KBB estimate. I said great so what is the out the door price? 41k msrp + 2000 market adj and in parenthesis they wrote (there are very few of these models available) and $1500 for car paint treatment or something, less $500 Ford Rebate, Total $44,000 less the generous trade in we are giving you $27,000 final amount is $17K. Dealer 2 says to me, we will sell you the car at 41K MSRP with no mark up or add ons, no games. What is the out the door price? Simple, 41K less 24K for your trade in so total $17K. It's the same deal as dealer one! However, I asked what happened to the $500 Ford Rebate? Oh it's allready included in the 17K. No it isn't! MSRP is 41K less $500 rebate is $40,500 less the 24K equals $16,500. Their response, what would it take to strike a deal with you today? I stopped responding. This was all via email.

Glad I watched this. I know I won't be buying any cars from Napleton in the future.

Napleton unethical? 😂

Come to the Charlotte area where a certain race team owner has a monopoly. When we went to a Charlotte Mazda dealership, they had 3800 in fees, 199 for nitrogen filled tires. I asked if they could show me where the nitrogen tank was in maintenance (did not exist) then 799 in window tint, they said non negotiable. I ended up flying to Albany for a new Signature CX-5, my wife works for the airlines so no cost for flights, points for the hotel and I was out the door at 1000 below sticker, 500 Mazda loyalty, 500 president’s day sale.

Hi I’m thinking of buying a f150 king ranch 3.5l eco boost. It has 90,000 miles in good condition thru a private owner is 32,000 a good price

There has been, almost since the beginning of Auto sales, that car dealers are also dealing in truth manipulation and deceit, a no holds barred environment where almost any tactics are used to separate a buyer from their money. Buying cars, used or new should never be an impulse purchase and regardless of how exciting it may be becoming the owner and driver, the buyer is dog paddling through shark infested waters. The new cars I've driven were company issued because big mile travelling was nessesery to do my job. Of the 35 cars I've actually spend my own money Buying, I bought from private sellers. And because I live on an Island in the Southern Pacific, miles/Km travelled are correspondingly low when compared to those big numbers put on in the United States. Up dated data from 2021. US fleet average age is 12.1 years. Where in my small Pacific Island home of Aotearoa fleet increases in age too, but as of the latest data current, 2018, the country's fleet is 14.1 years. I drive a 1995 Corolla and my wife a 2003 Mitzibishi Lancer bought new and very money money spent only on consumables and regular servicing. Why change cars when certainty from ownership experience is paralysed for the unknown.

I’ve had dealers line-item things you’d think would be considered in the price (ie recondition) and they say “we are a transparent dealer. We don’t want you guessing what are costs are”

Theft deterant is $20 liquid etching. Tell them you aren't paying for that.

Why do I see ads for extended warranties on your youtube feed. I thought you guys are legit?

I’ll sell you my 2017 Mazda CX-5 touring with the Bose system, moonroof and navigation for 24k, it has 25500 miles 😀

I have a question. You know that paper they make you put your initials when they say if I get you this price would you buy today? Can you change your mind after putting your initials?