How to Fix "Bad Posture" in Rock Climbers

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// TIMESTAMPS //
Context and Overview (00:00)
Super Realistic Example (00:39)
Part 1: Why is this important? (01:26)
Part 2: What causes climber's hunch? (02:32)
Part 3: How do I know if this is an issue for me? (04:20)
Part 4: How do I fix climber's hunch? (06:17)
Step 1: Foam Rolling (06:51)
Step 2: Pec Stretches (08:08)
Step 3: Neck and Upper Trap Levator Stretches (08:52)
Step 4: Deep Core Strengthening (09:47)
Step 5: Mid and Lower Trap Strengthening (10:57)
Step 6: Check Yo' Self (11:48)
Outro and Bloopers (12:23)
// SHOW NOTES //
Episode 88
INTRODUCTION
You’ll see it all the time at the gym. Hands drooping, forearms on the thighs, rounded shoulders, upper back arched, forward head and bent neck. It’s the dreaded “climber’s hunch" (or "climber's back as it's also often called), which not only makes you look kind of like a goose, but can lead to significant shoulder, neck, and back problems if you don’t do anything to counteract it. Luckily, I’ve got just the solution for you!
PART 1: WHY IS A CLIMBER’S HUNCH SIGNIFICANT?
Now, before I get started, a little public service announcement: People can continue to exist and climb with climber’s hunch just fine for quite a while. So this is not a death sentence. Don’t let it kill your self-confidence or motivation to climb. But, we gotta be realistic with ourselves when evaluating our health and performance, and climber’s hunch can significantly impact those two things in the following ways:
Shoulder pain, worse with overhead activities
Neck pain, particularly of the levator scapula or upper trapezius
Costochondritis - inflammation of the cartilage that connects a rib to the sternum causing clicking, popping, and even pain in the front of your chest/sternum.
Mid / upper back pain
And even lower back pain if you have a more developed issue
Oh yeah, and don’t forget the defeated-looking posture that makes you look like you just lost your life savings to cryptocurrency.
If it wasn’t obvious, all these will all make you worse at climbing, so if your goal is to get better at climbing... Stick around ;).
PART 2: WHAT CAUSES A CLIMBERS HUNCH?
Climber’s Hunch has both primary and secondary causes. The primary cause is poor core activation and poor postural awareness leading to poor sustained postures. This leads to unideal anatomical adaptations, which become the secondary causes.
That was a lot, let’s break it down.
Ran out of room!! For the rest, please check out the show notes:
www.hoopersbeta.com/library/l...
// DISCLAIMER //
As always, exercises and rehab programs are to be performed assuming your own risk and should not be done if you feel you are at risk for injury. See a medical professional if you have concerns before starting a new training or recovery program.
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Thinker Statue Photo: Auguste Rodin, CC0, via Wikimedia Commons
// PRODUCERS //
Jason Hooper (PT, DPT, OCS, SCS)
and
Emile Modesitt (@emile166)
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#trainclimbsendrepeat #climbersback #physicaltherapy

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3 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 144

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Hey friends! What percentage of your climber friends need to see this video?? Do you think climber's hunch is an important issue?

@ricardoariel1239 3 года назад

I have had this problem all my life. I didn't know that climbing carelessly could make it worse. Thanks so much from Chile!

@larathompson1981 3 года назад

I've been climbing nearly 15 yrs and I have to say it used to be far more prevalent a decade ago in Vancouver! My current fellow 7am boulderers are all fine. That said, I used to climb evenings so maybe it's morning vs evening boulderers!

@Austin-z7s 3 года назад

Anyone getting in to it. Bulged disks happen in no time, speaking from experience.

@Fakinoris 3 года назад

@Logan Pitsenberger The truth is hard to swallow

@joji_okami 2 года назад

Certainly one of the most important issues. I managed to tear my shoulder labrum (SLAP tear) and went in surgery for it. It went very good and after 4 months and lot of physio and strengthening I am back on the wall. But I do believe that reduced ranged of motion in my thoracic spine did contribute to me getting this injury while climbing hard.

@yuanliao7026 3 года назад

that twosets gang reference oh my

@ricardoariel1239 3 года назад

ling ling practice his posture 40 hours a day

@arcusang9685 3 года назад

I'm like whut daaaaaaaaaa... Woohooooooo! Perfect community

@emilenakatani6311 3 года назад

If you can climb it slowly you can climb it quickly !

@indig0icee 3 года назад

I love this

@timothykwan4789 3 года назад

Ling Ling insurance will pay for your posture rehab

@tsurutom 3 года назад

Through regular yoga sessions I've managed to get rid of this and so many other problems with my body, it's amazing. Can't recommend it enough as a complement to climbing :)

@ElephantseatShorts 3 года назад

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="203">3:23</a> "why do V3 climbers give technique advice?" LMAO 🤣

@ryandemsky6548 3 года назад

I just found this channel recently, you guys are gonna blow up! Thanks for all of the great info :)

@danusrawert8487 3 года назад

Thanks! Finally a nice guide to this problem! Also i love your humor!

@nbka8rs 3 года назад

Building out a sick catalog my dudes, the last few have been algogogogo fire

@Solemn_Kaizoku Год назад

Great quality vid loaded with good info. Thanks!

@ryanweslowski9432 3 года назад

Always love watching your vids!

@MrTedfro 3 года назад

I’ve always wondered about climbers hunch!! Thank you!

@meytschehh 3 года назад

Good stuff doc, thank you!

@tonyhodroj8784 3 года назад

Very informative helpful and comedic video. Keeps my short ass attention span watching so props to you man!

@rlm2610 Год назад

Thanks a lot doc! I'm working these stretches into my routine (which is based on your other videos). Just the awareness that good posture comes from the deep core (and the really intuitive "tight jeans") has already brought on a major improvement! I was one of those people trying to correct the rounded shoulders by pulling them back with the upper back muscles. I'm glad to hear that it's not weird to find that so exhausting! :')

@marcelloantoniodreier4795 3 года назад

One of your best videos yet! Great quality, order, everything easy to understand and much more! Only thing I have one big feedback! Add to the end of the videos a 30 day challenge for your audience like your climber friend does. Make photo of posture from side and also with 1 move against the wall and than 30 day challenge of doing daily the 3 steps of warm up, Stretching & strengthening for 30 days and after 30 days again one photo. I believe you get my Point! I wish you a great day and let's improve our posture week by week! Btw funny ending 😅😂🤣🤣🤣

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Thank you for the feedback and the idea! That would be a fun addition! I love hearing when people are able to utilize our videos to heal / recover / improve something related to their health! Thanks for the comment and thoughts!

@SM-vg9og 3 года назад

I'm a beginner, and did not know it was a thing, and it is just so helpful and informative

@willmurrin9344 2 года назад

How y'all still sitting at sub 50K subs is beyond me. Best climbing training channel out there!

@HoopersBeta 2 года назад

Thanks! :)

@stretch1807 Год назад

I thank the dear, dear Lord y'all include real, pertinent, and deeply cutting humor in these videos. That humor, in addition to healthy doses of dissonance infused in your videos, keeps me grounded and coming back for more. I'd much rather spend my time here than in a video that sends me into a shopping tailspin and leaves me with a spender's hangover. Thanks again! Keep sending, y'all ✌️ 🪴

@HoopersBeta Год назад

Glad you're enjoying the videos! Thank you for the comment :)

@ThijsFTW 2 года назад

Thanks for including metric meassurements!

@leoingson 3 года назад

Thanks thanks thanks! I had all sorts of wild theories (pulling with the chest) going, since nobody could explain that widespread phenomenon. The SECONDARY effects make this one tricky. Thanks again.

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Very welcome!

@leoingson 3 года назад

@@HoopersBeta Do you have any additional advice, if my posture is fixed to a degree (kyphosis in the upper back, vertebraes wedge-shaped)? I think I have a chance to bring back my shoulders a bunch, but straighten the spine is limited at some point. Of course all exercise in this video makes sense for me all the same, but maybe there is more to know and do. I'm quite prone to shoulder, ellbow (and finger) issues whenever I get in train hard mode (even tho I train antagonists trizeps, shoulders outward rotation, warm up well, and stretch some). Guess that's posture related (plus in part genetics, maybe).

@harrymanion3007 Год назад

I really needed that... Thanks!

@HoopersBeta Год назад

Thank you! Glad we could help :)

@lazymary2200 2 года назад

Awesome! Thanks for the advice🤝👍 Do you recommend push ups as counter training?

@GoodLuck-rh8tb 3 года назад

Lol, this was the first episode I watched for a while. Totally savage and funny :D I remember this channel to be more serious and stiff, omg :D

@barbaratudlik1400 2 года назад

This is a really good video. A lot of my friends should see it. :) There is another back related one though that I think would be really beneficial for a lot of climbers. I think there are loads of climbers walking around with anterior pelvic tilt. It also seems to be hard to get rid of. It would be amazing if we could see a video on it sometime. :) Thanks.

@HoopersBeta 2 года назад

That is true! Good point. We have a back video or two on our list. That would be an interesting one to address. Thanks for sharing!

@MichaelDuke1 3 года назад

You guys speak to my soul with your sexy research backed prehab and rehab

@lefthandplunger 3 года назад

Really useful video - thanks!! I've been climbing sporadically for years but trying to get into it climbing more regularly, and working out training/stretching stuff to look after my body better. How/when would you recommend combining this routine for posture with other stretching/training? Would you combine it with a warm-up or warm-down stretching, or do it at the start/end of training on a non-climbing day, like your 'one routine, once a week' training video?

@williamlord8064 3 года назад

Oh my God I was laughing at the bit where you turn with the hunch and I was shocked to recognize the routes behind you. LMAO what are the odds.

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Glad you found it entertaining!

@lilacdoodz 2 года назад

I came to improve my posture and found the humor an entertaining plus lol.

@Naafun 3 года назад

Great vid! Very helpful even though I've been working on it for a while. Had a lot of pain during uni bit didn't connect the dots until way later.

@chicac.7600 3 года назад

Yea, was wondering for a long time why climbers had this hunch and looked like vultures. Great videos as always!! Will definite go back to this video in the future for the stretches when i actually go back to climbing

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Chica C! not climbing? no wonder we haven't seen your comments lately! lol.

@nebula524 3 года назад

thanks for the great vid. traps strengthening - ive seen in other vids the exercise which involves lying on a mat face down, and lifting the upper back off the ground with arms in a Y or T position. thoughts? if just as effective, i guess that eliminates the need for a theraband (or attaching a theraband to something) to do the face pulls as you have suggested.

@user-bd7ky5rp9n 3 года назад

This is great material and I agree 100% with how to fix climbers hunch. I would just like to give my take on what may cause the hunch to be even more prominent in climbers. This doesn't mean that any information is wrong, because honestly, it isn't. I would just like to add a little according to my accounts. I have a few years of experience in physical training and I have worked with professional athletes in various fields, even at the Olympian level. And before I started climbing I was a little intrigued by the climbers hunch in professional climbers. Generally the hunch is caused by sedantary life styles but it is even more prominent in athletes that use their front muscles heavily. This is explained by the contents of this clip so I will skip the reasons. What I didn't get was why climbers who work their posterior muscles have this same hunch. This is my take(to add to what has already been elaborated) 1) One function of the lats is internal shoulder rotation A lot of climbers have well developed lats and do lat training. And the lats facilitate internal rotation of the shoulders even though they are back muscles. This seems to be one reason a strong back does not mean no hunch. 2) Engagement of the pecs A lot of prefessional climbers have extremely well developed pecs. I could feel this even at my first few sessions climbing. Whenever you are holding on holds, in order to keep your body close to the wall(or keep from falling off the wall) you pull inwards(medially). This maintains a certain level of tension in your pecs throughout the climb. The lower pecs also often get engaged in pulling motions that utilize the lats as a main contractor. Mounting or mantling moves as well as any type of pushing move will also involve the pecs. I myself feel how important the pecs are when I try climbing the day after a chest workout. The day after back or leg workouts, I just can't initiate moves I can execute when I'm fresh. But after a chest or shoulder workout I can immediately feel instability in the scapulae and shoulder joints. I also have a hard time just keeping my body close to the wall and keep falling away. This seems to prove that the pecs are continuously utilized during a climb. The repetitive tension in the pecs will also exacerbate round shoulders and hunched backs. I have a few more minor things to add but this comment is long enough.

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Thanks for the well thought out and delivered comment! You're correct in adding that the pecs are engaged in those pulling activities and will become more developed. They are shown in EMG studies to be active during pull ups and other pulling motions so there is science to support that! You're also correct in noting that development to the lat's can add to this issue as well. Good thoughts / comments and thanks for sharing!

@joji_okami 2 года назад

Yeah, I have it a bit as well. The only thing a bit difficult is getting the back of the head to the wall. I do get it easily there while looking straight but definitely feel a stretch in the back of the neck and traps. And shoulders in this position are not totally on the wall. Not dramatically hunched but still a bit forward. I am already doing the foam rolling and stretches but will definitely do more strengthening exercises.

@HoopersBeta 2 года назад

Back of the head component may be related to some tightness in the upper thoracic region. Sounds like some more strengthening would certainly help the other components!

@rockstarjazzcat Год назад

Alexander technique, primary control… Roll head forward, lift head crown up, "no" to the shoulders… (Better illustrated with a picture, and with apologies to Alexander practitioners actually qualified to teach.) The simple sequence gave me instant relief and improvement of posture. I like these exercises inasmuch as they leverage the mechanics in question. Cheers, Daniel

@emilferent23 2 года назад

Thanks!

@HoopersBeta 2 года назад

Thanks so much!

@henryjenkins4836 3 года назад

Was that Twoset Violin I saw??

@GeekClimber 3 года назад

I always thought the reason of climber's hunch is mainly because we are pulling with straight arms and protraction for most moves, and only pulling with bent arms and retraction for difficult moves. Just to make sure, let's say there's an easy overhang juggy V1 where you can climb with arms straight at all times and mostly push yourself up with the legs. Should I be protracting or retracting when climbing it? I always climb with protraction because that's the least tiring way to climb it, but I am not 100% sure if this is the "right" way to climb it. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts!

@fwr9574 3 года назад

This makes much more sense than the reason given in the video

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Climbing with straight vs bent arms will be move dependent. It can be less energy to climb with your arms straight, of course, and it can vary depending on style (overhung vs vertical wall. You may start by grabbing a hold with a straight arm, but then as you stand up, moving to the next hold, you flex that arm and retract the scapular. You are constantly changing positions while climbing, which is great! The real culprit comes from sustained positions. Sustained positions cause shortening of muscles and decreased mobility of joints. Think about your body when getting out of a car after driving for 2-3 hours versus your body when you've been climbing.

@bjornasm12321 3 года назад

But what about that would lead to a hunched back?

@Togher01 3 года назад

I have had back problems for years. 26 now. All these exercises I have done before and can relieve some of your pain and improve posture. Being aware of your posture is the must effective way just don't try to hard being straight. Best thing that has help me recently was a standing desk. Way less likely to fall into a bad posture when your desk is set up right.

@yasmeenamzk 3 года назад

How do you recommend to set this up?

@phnk 2 года назад

Is there a video on this channel that describes the opposite issue (back pain from the opposite posture, due to non-clilbing-related activities in my case), and what to do about it? Asking because your videos are very helpful. Thanks for any pointers!

@isaacgreenwald9408 3 года назад

can you make a video about tight biceps? mine have gotten tight from lots of climbing and most stretches dont seem to do much

@olivierdlc1833 3 года назад

I fix my posture 6 months ago but i still have lot of tension in the upper traps and a section of my mid scapula which is stuck in an infinite spasm.... i'm trying everything but it's very hard to fix. I will try to incorporate more of that mobilisation with the peanut thing.

@missusingle Год назад

You can also throw 2 lacrosse or tennis balls into a clean, cotton sock. (And fill the *other* sock with rice for a wonderful heating pad. But make sure the sock is cotton or it might catch fire).

@tarettime9392 3 года назад

When he's listing the side effects I felt personally called out😂

@AlpineActivist 3 месяца назад

I’m new here. Have you done a video on posture while climbing/exercises to reduce or eliminate lower back pain from climbing?

@HoopersBeta 3 месяца назад

Welcome to the channel! No, no videos on lower back pain from climbing yet. I hope you found some of our other videos useful in the meantime, though!

@AlpineActivist 3 месяца назад

@@HoopersBetaI’ve learned a lot, thanks for doing this.

@psicologiageneraleconalleg369 3 года назад

TWO SET VIOLIN IN YOUR VIDEOOOOOO

@kevjumbaz 3 года назад

recent medical literature (including a physiopedia video) mentioned/debunked the myths behind foam rolling or myofascial release. would like to hear your thoughts on it!

@leoingson 3 года назад

It's a muscle-only thing, and that part works?

@FancyWafflesFTW 3 года назад

I've been trying halfheartedly to get rid of my goose vibes for the past year. Hope this helps me finally make the change!

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Get after it, Rumps! Just start with small changes and go from there.

@gamotousername 3 года назад

Could you please talk about anterior pelvic tilt in combination with climbers hunch? Is it possible to fix the hunch without working on that as well? To tackle apt, most videos suggest stretching the front of the leg and strengthening the back. Kinda the opposite of what you need for climbing flexibility. Is there any middle ground?

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Absolutely. There isn't a "one or another" scenario here. You can stretch the hip flexors and rectus femoris, and strengthen the back (hamstrings, etc) to help reduce an anterior tilt. But that doesn't mean you can't stretch the hamstrings either! Having good mobility and stability in our muscles is not only attainable, it's ideal! Often times the anterior pelvic tilt is related to having a deficit in one vs another (mobility vs stability) but an important additional concept is the simple awareness. People often default to an anterior pelvic tilt in standing as it is less dependent on muscles and more dependent on ligaments. Meaning, it takes less energy for us to do i.e. lazier :P

@austinhenke2387 2 года назад

Not sure, but last I checked, the evidence does not support any posture correlating with increased risk for pain or injury. What is the evidence supporting the claims in this video? Thanks!

@dervoss3841 3 года назад

Did the back to to wall test and passed it completly. Guess I do enough antagonist training and Stretching. Have a little hunch though If I do not pay enough attention to my posture

@renciapolous 4 месяца назад

That peanut devise is an amazing revelation for me

@treywl740 3 года назад

Do you have any advice for dealing with costochondritis? I’ve heard a lot of conflicting or poorly researched advice and don’t really know how to fix the issue! I don’t have any climber’s hunch issues but I feel significant sternum pain with the majority of pressing exercises (dips and overhead press in particular have been really painful). I’ve tried some foam rolling and self massage on my upper back but no relief so far unfortunately. Thanks!

@MichaelDuke1 3 года назад

Take this with a grain of salt, but I had bad costo and read about how it's due to stiff back that prevents proper Rob cage mobility. What worked was less foam rolling and more yin yoga type deep stretching using a foam roller. So breathing into the stretch that he shows in this video, with the foam roller, and really letting it release for a good amount of time. Ymmv

@brandonp4199 3 года назад

I have had costochondritis for over a year and a half now and have researched/tried everything under the sun. I to get the sternum pain with pressing exercises like pushups and would have stints where it would go away and I thought it was better than a debilitating bad episode that could last for weeks. I believe I have it under control and I am on the mend and it was when I started focusing on posture, doing exercises to open my chest and thoracic spine stretches, some of which are in this video. I got the Upright GO 2 (on Amazon) and found this really helped me throughout the work day keep my shoulders back and core engaged. After just a few weeks of keeping my shoulders back and down with good posture I could feel the tightness in my chest decrease and that ever present pain in the sternum subside. I started focusing on posture in February 2021 and haven't had a debilitating costochondritis flare up since which is huge for me because I was running out of hope. I can still feel it in my chest sometimes but it isn't putting me out of commission and I am training again which I will take as a win. So be mindful of posture throughout the day and do stretches and strengthening exercises every night before bed and you should see results. Hope this helps!

@christophedurand811 3 года назад

You guys went full climbingcirclejerk in this video XD

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Gotta keep things interesting :P

@aarongreene8708 3 года назад

What weight/resistance would you recommend for the trap strengthening (step 5). Also do you have a favorite brand of resistance bands?

@leoingson 3 года назад

Strengthening should mean about 5-8 reps per set (leaving 1 in the tank)?

@tpa3437 3 года назад

I see this all the time in the gym.

@finleyyy 3 года назад

Hey Hooper, does weight training affect the climbers hunch in a negative way? I really do have a climbers hunch, climb 3-4 times a week and work out often. I mostly do pull-ups, rows, dips, leg raises and front levers. Should I focus now on your climbing hunch fixes or keep going with my workout? thanks in advance

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Try out some of the stretches and see how it makes you feel! You have some good strength training that I wouldn't discontinue. Just try adding in some more stretching.

@finleyyy 3 года назад

@@HoopersBeta thanks a lot!

@yogaenlamochila8480 3 года назад

I see this so much! You all need to do yoga, hahahahaha

@christophermartin7868 2 года назад

Do you perform step 3 with your lower back against the wall?

@jnedela 3 месяца назад

<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="668">11:08</a> Hi, I'm pretty new to resistance bands. Could you recommend specific strength for face pulls? I'm intermediate climber, 15 pull-ups 30 push-ups max.

@HoopersBeta 3 месяца назад

Hard to make a recommendation like that since it can even depend on how long the band is, how far back you stand, etc. The better recommendation is to acquire a few different levels of resistance, start with a lower level, perform the exercise with a target rep range (say, 8-12 depending on your goals), and then assess: were you able to complete the target reps with good form? How easy/hard was it? if you did 12 reps but felt like it was soooo easy that you could do 16 or more, then you should increase resistance. But if you could only do say, 6 reps and the form was bad, you should lower the resistance.

@jnedela 3 месяца назад

Thank you very much. I'm gonna try different strength and see how strong I am 💪

@SD-qt1fs 3 года назад

doc can you provide some info on achilles tendonitis in climbing. suffer from it since childhood and cant in my life do toe hooks because the achilles just doesn't activate

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Toe hook training? Can do. On the list 👍

@Mylada 3 года назад

The achilles doesnt need to activate in toe hooks. Tibialis anterior is doing the work with extensor digitorum and hallucis longus.

@tpstrat14 Год назад

saw this dude last night knocking out V6-8 no problem. Looked like he could all probably do V10. But he was a total hunchback. Couldn't have good posture if he wanted it. His upper back anatomy was absolutely wrecked. I'll never climb again if that's my fate. Glad I found this video!

@HoopersBeta Год назад

Hope these stretches help you!

@grantmoser5393 3 года назад

random twoset clip lol

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Love those guys xD - Emile

@nathanrice7352 Год назад

That side shot at <a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="320">5:20</a> might be the most unflattering angle I've seen of a human, ever.

@adamlee2550 Год назад

Me and my friends must be doing something right. I just assumed that when you start climbing your posture improves because we all had hunches and now we stand chest out, shoulders back.

@goloher Год назад

I've noticed it too once I started. Guess that was due to my core and muscle corset actually appearing))) When I realised that I was actually standing upright, I was kinda shocked)) But after a year of 3-4 sessions (3-5 hours each) per week it's like some shoulder/neck problems really are appearing. Super tiny, but I'll definitely add the exercises from the vid to my routine.

@kevinmai3778 3 года назад

Hi Dr. Hooper! Since climbing and wearing tight climbing shoes, I noticed that my toe is bent a little and a bunion is gradually forming. Is there any way I can counter that?

@SheepWaveMeByeBye 3 года назад

Don't use that insane footwear.

@HoopersBeta 3 года назад

Take more breaks (don't wear your shoes the entire climbing session). Wear sandals or other loose fitting shoe ware when not climbing. Make sure your daily shoes have a wide toe box. Or consider getting toe spaces. Some or all may be your solution. Hope that helps!