a few constructive comments if i can 1) make sure the cast iron stack is supported before removing it. they can come straight down if not tied into the structure or use of a riser clamp. 2)using a 90 on the horizontal it should be what is called a long sweep, or a code 90. the one you have looks like a standard 90. 3) a clean out is always a good idea. depending on the situation, it can be required. nice video, for sure it will work. .
@@jeffostroff from my experience instead of a double san. tee, they want a double fixture cross. sometimes called a figure eight. the reason is if you run a snake down either side with a double tee, the snake will not go down but go up the other drain. the double fixture is longer sweep, but still has room for the vent to work and direct the cable down. so if using a double san tee a clean out would be a good idea. i am not sure where you are, but in in Oregon that is preferred.
@@xdghontwitch447 That’s the comment that I was going to make… Lennox makes an excellent diamond blade for reciprocating saws and I wouldn’t have used that grinder. The only time a grinder comes in handy is to maybe get something started but you don’t even really need that either. Get a can of “PB Blaster“ and spray that once in a while when you’re using that diamond cutter blade and it works very well because it helps cool the blade but it also acts like a cutting oil as well. And very lucky that stack did not come down on them specially with a heavy cast-iron one! Edward H. “Integrity Plumbing, Septic and Drain“ in Clinton, CT
@@Doing_it_right_the_first_time lennox blades are decent but in my opinion they are too thin and bend easy i use diamond diablo blades that work great for cutting cast i only ever use a grinder if the space is too tight for a sawzall
Next time, and this is just a suggestion, use all shielded bands for your transition fittings. Those ferncos will sag over time and cause issues. This is coming from a service plumber who deals with it all the time.
Theres a "flexible coupling" on top, and another one on the dirty arm catching the sink from the bathroom. The bottom connection is a shielded band, but that one is really only ment to tie in vents. Shielded Bands essentially compress the gasket onto the ends of the pipe, as apposed to just the two hose clamps of the rubber boots.
@@jeffostroff Negative, that would fail inspection. What it needs is an ARC 4 band coupling 4" cast to 4" plastic on top and bottom and all stainless steal bands torqued down to 60. Besides that job well done better then most plumbers ive seen doing repairs like this.
The Fernco couplings are great, I use them, but they are not code if they are sealed behind a wall. They must be either shielded, or you need to provide easy access to the plumbing without cutting through the wall, for easy inspection and repair, if need be. The shielding requirement, I believe, is because of rodents.
I had this exact problem. Every so often my dad would change out a rusted ptrap( metal no pvc). Years later, dads passed, mom calls, sinks leaking! My turn to fix it ! HERES the problem!!!. Did this repair, no issues again
Hats off to all you professional plumbers! I do my own basic plumbing when needed and hate dealing with the filthy water and pungent smell. I see why you guys get paper 💰💰💰💰💰.
Before lowering the existing san-tee/ sanitary tee, strap the vent above the san-tee, to prevent the existing vent from sliding down, through the existing roof flashing down, especially within cast iron vents, weight being nearly inivitable to slide down immediately. Abs vents being light weight, not so crucial, light guage metal P-Tape to strap the cast vent, once san-tee is completed, remove your strap, do yourself a favor from trying to reset existing vent through existing roof flashing once again, also having to reseal vent with henrys tar-sealant. Completely un-nessesary is vent is strapped very first within process.
The new drain pipe should’ve been straight in instead of adding a right elbow and cutting the stud to accommodate it. They do have two inlets drain pipes at 90 degrees. My reason being that makes it difficult to snake, especially a kitchen drain that clog often.
That is some amazing work to solve that problem. I had to do a lot of similar stuff when I remodeled my 1909 house to bring it up to code and redo everything down to the studs. There were *so many* of these weird plumbing choices that had accumulated over the previous 100 years!
I had this same scenario in a new 10” deep SS sink with disposer in my 2nd floor Condo. My problem was putting the plumbing together without a leak, 3 hours later it still dripped. I had a friend Peter that was a high rise plumber (Chicago downtown was his turf) and his specialty was drains. He came over to help me and in 10 minutes we were done. He asked to get all new parts and as many different combos I could find. When Peter inspected the setup, he said he had repaired worst one’s than this. This setup was identical to the one you have. First thing he did was to reverse the trap, picked all the parts he needed and when he put everything together, he assembled all joints with Teflon tape and Teflon paste. He said this always prevented comebacks in difficult situations. It’s been over 3 years and everything works perfectly…….this is a rental unit in a Condominium complex. Thanks….Jim
That's amazing that Pete got it working by reversing the trap, normally we are not supposed to do that, but if you can do it without busting into the wall, and it works, problem solved
That’s the cleanest cast iron I’ve ever seen. I assumed it’s old because of the caulked joints. Next time use try a side inlet tee so your stub out remains centered. My only criticism is that you called everything below the stub outs a wet vent. Unless there’s a drain below those two, it’s not a vent. It’s just a drain.
@Janet Yeoman No need for safety glasses if you have fast reflexes. When you see a metal shard heading your way, simply duck your head to the side to avoid the oncoming projectile.
I am finishing my kitchen where this WOULD have been a problem but I was lucky enough to run into a plumber at the hardware store who asked me some questions and warned me about this. He said to set my new drain 17.5 inchess below my finished countertop. He was absolutely right and saved my butt.
Wow! Thank you for this excellent educational video of having to work with cast iron and merging PVC to it. What a nightmare. Your plumber guy was fearless working that close to the copper lines with that angle grinder, impressive. Carry On.
Do NOT follow this hack work. The used the wrong tools, no PPE, They didn't strap the above cast-iron. Someone could've easily lost a finger. This should be removed from RU-vid.
Jeff you have more PPE sanding drywall then the plumber grinding cast iron...he could benefit from your tool giveaways for sure. Great job on all your renovations!
Nice, I always like to put a rag when I'm working on any size drain, don't want pieces of material falling in and catching material and clogging pipe in the future.
Whenever I can get to that area, I hate seeing all the handyman patch jobs with tape around the pipes, I like a nice perfect brand new look when I am done.
nice video thank you I would like to share experience . Drain pipe was to high added extra 90 to connect and for like 1.5 years that sink always drained slow. thought it was clogged used draino snaked it out still going down slow. Finally realized I had created a double trap and that was my problem. Cut open wall lowerd drain pipe and all good from there
I had to raise it by 3". The original person who did it, put the cast iron drain on a couple bricks. Somehow it must have slipped off and it resulted in a reverse slope. 50 years later I had to go inside the plaster wall. As soon as I opened it up I just groaned. I had to rip out a brand new soffit on the floor below, where I had put in brand new cabinets a couple years before. So much work.
My remodel kitchen is almost completed at cost of $30k Now co plumber tells me drain is too high for the tailpipe with dishwasher. Also upgraded to a deep 10” sink. He wanted to do some weird stuff. like running dishwasher hose thur the drop ceiling to the utility Sink! I said no way so he put the tailpipe with dishwasher hose on drain first then he ran the p trap. I pray it works the water in sink drain goes down slow. I hope they both drain efficiently once power is restored to dishwasher.
I’ll have to share some pics of a job I just worked on last week! Same exact situation but it was caused by somebody who didn’t know how to rough the drain in, hahaha and you are correct for one that high you can’t do anything but drop the Santee
Yes we inherited that height from the builder in 1946 who planted that cast iron plumbing stack and the street drain pipe 22" above the floor. The house never had a dishwasher or garbage disposal before, nor could it have worked. I engineered it so that now they could have a garbage disposal and dishwasher.
@@jeffostroff as soon as I saw that stack I thought ohh poor Jeff hahaha I’m sure they thing was fun to cut! If you didn’t snap it I can imagine you’ve still got the taste of cast iron in your mouth. Great job though love how you do things correctly.
More owners remolds and designers are dumping disposals as a result of major sewer problems eventually causing backups of main line. I disconnected mine some time ago. Installed quality strainers and dump organic in compost or garbage. Many Highrisers are doing same…
yea people abuse the disposals and put to much stuff down them. My mom put potato peels down there and clogged the main drain pipe 85 ft away from the sink. SHe learned her lesson. NO food down the disposal I told her...
Garbage disposal is expensive maintenance (6 months to yearly plumber calls to unplug.). Strainers are the way to go, I'm not lazy as i wash dishes by hand.
Thanks for sharing, I like to watch the retro fitting on cast iron. That was a good price on the plumber, worth every $$$. Could the plumber have use his chain break to cut the pipe?
I forgot to ask him if he had one, but also other eight not have been enough room to get it in there. That lever arm on the chain cutter takes a lot of space.
Thank you for the video. I also have the same issues. Previous owner put in deep sink and the drain pipe is higher so they put a negative pitch on the drain pipe that runs through two cabinets. And they also skipped in the primer, so everything i need to remove from the wall pulls lots of paint along with it 😂.
Late to the party but I would have shot that drain fitting over a few more inches to get it from behind the disposal. I also would have changed the bathroom sink arm while I was in there. It's old copper. It's going to fail eventually. Might as well get rid of it and replace it with 1 1/2" PVC before closing the wall up. It would also make your drain fitting less "busy".
I had this scenario on a newly purchased utility sink. Raise the sink legs (or sink base cabinet), get a shallow sink, or bust into the wall like what you ended up doing. The choice is, do you want that added luxury of a deeper sink? OK, then it's going to cost you.
I know Milwaukee had a blade that they were showing at 1 of their trade shows last year that cut through it like butter I don't know if it was the wrecker or not
@@jeffostroff yeah i tore out some old cast iron the thick metal cutting tooth blades cut it fast they say but it is hard to hold them in tight spaces the diamond abrasive blade for cast iron does not cut as fast but is smoother
Jams pasarías inspection en California usando esos couplings de goma sin cobertura metálica y sin soporte en la pipa de 3” pulgadas .. pero como siempre es bueno trabajar y eso te hace una buena persona eres. Bueno solos agüérala mejor por si se llenara de aguas negras o templara
Oops, you gotta support that stack before you cut it. And when removing the stack in pieces, like you did, you should always put a strong magnet on stack below your bottom cut. That will prevent any pieces from falling down into pipe by mistake. 24 years a plumber. NO FERNCOS, SHIELDED OR MISSION COUPLINGS ONLY!!!
YEs, the plumber got a bit lazy on that, probably since most iron stacks here in FL go up to roof and are supported by globs of sealant on the roof. Got a shielded mission part number I can look into for next time?
Lennox makes an excellent diamond blade for reciprocating saws and I wouldn’t have used that grinder (yes, better than the Diablo brand blade for a cast-iron by a long shot!). The only time a grinder comes in handy is to maybe get something started but you don’t even really need that either. Get a can of “PB Blaster“ and spray that once in a while when you’re using that diamond cutter blade and it works very well because it helps cool the blade but it also acts like a cutting oil as well. And very lucky that stack did not come down on them specially with a heavy cast-iron one! Edward H. “Integrity Plumbing, Septic and Drain“ in Clinton, CT
This is much more common than you think many people remodeling their older houses that have a higher placed drain line going into the wall are faced with this decision decision period of course it's a lot easier to do it when the walls are open During the remodel instead of afterwards that was just a few hours of work
Great advice from what apears to be a plumber below my comment on attaching the main cast oron pipe BEFORE you cut it as youu can have a possible 300lb main pipe that would want to fall and rip out the piping above your cutting area. 12 more man hours added, what a PIA fix, but it had to be done.
Great video! A contractor installed the kitchen sink drain pipe 23.5” high from the concrete floor. The cabinets are laminate counter top and I think they height 36”. Would I be Ok by installing a 7” deep kitchen sink or I am in trouble? Thanks.
When I'm testing the install of a garbage disposal, I always fill the sink AND turn on the disposal. It acts like a pump and none of the fittings leak at that point, you should be good. My sympathy to the plumber - I hate cutting that old cast iron - it's brittle, hard to cut, and getting it hot does not help with the smell. I've never had to cut anything more than 3 inches in diameter, and had enough room that time, so I was able to get clean cut with a sawzall. There was no room under the sink, but the situation inside the wall wasn't a lot better...
I am glad the after you cut out the CI section that the pipe above the cut out did not drop. You must have installed a riser clamp or plumbers tape and I missed it. Or damn it Jeff, you know better than that.
That vertical plumbing stack don't forget it goes all the way through the roof and pops out on the outside but on the outside but it is sealed all the way around the roof on the roof with sealant that is strong enough to hold it
Is there any type of fitting with the connections that you used and a third connection for a clean out? It seems that if you need to snake it out in the future, with such a tight working space, a clean out might be handy. Thanks
Any decent plumber can easily sneak this out through the peak through the P trap. But they did have a blockage and here a few months later and the plumber was able to get to it from the roof And he sneaked down through the plumbing stomach into the sewer where there was a backup
Thanks for the reply! I was asking as a do it yourselfer, trying to avoid a plumber if the clog was just a simple clog right behind the wall, not in the sewer yet, something reachable with a 20 ft snake.
@@mtbuddha2003 I have always had bad luck with blockages in the sewer because they are always beyond my 20' snake reach. So I always end up having to call in the plumber to bring their sectional machine which they keep feeding in 10th foot sections usually about 30' to 40' before they find the clog down the clog Is down the sewer line
@@jeffostroff When I lived in San Diego, I had the world's best apricot tree right at the back of my lot. My sewer line got plugged up, and since there was NO cleanout, the plumber was up on the roof feeding snake. He was out at about 190 feet, I think - I know he was on the last section of snake he had - before he cleared it. His advice was to cut down the tree, which almost certainly had roots in the sewer, but the fruit was much too good to do that. I told him I'd be willing to pay him to come out every year, and as it happened, I moved before it was necessary again. At least it wasn't beyond the limit of his machine.
I don't know if you don't have access to a proper plumbing supply house in your area or not but I would have used a reducing san t with a right hand side inlet to catch that lav. Would have made it a little less tight.
"Oh great they'll have an easy solution to my problem that won't involve moving the drain pipe" :( Great video though, clear explanation of the thing I know I have to do but don't want to
Seems like a lot of work to remove a great piece of cast. In England we would have drilled a 2inch hole in cast pipe low level then put a cast boss in with 2inch bsp
Great video…do you know why this was installed so high in the first place? I’ve been trying to find the answer to rough in dimensions and there are so many piece of crap fake websites out there that are saying the drain has to be 20 to 24 inches high.
what do you do when you wall everyting up and the screws on the strapping rust off and it starts leaking from all the humidity and rust? do you want itl the water finds its way
I almost had to do this for my sink the old sink was shallow stainless and had a tiny disposal we put in deeper black resin sink and giant disposal wound up just barely enough drop to wall. i had a y in there horizontal originally that did each sink separately out of copper, but it got eaten away over the years so now have both sinks tied into each other like you did in one video but mine was just horizontal no downward slope i actually liked the y better had more drop on each sink then
Just serviced such a setup where the homeowner or plumber just 90'd UP after the P-trap and then 90'd again over into the waste arm. Remarkably they said they had no issues over the years, although this was just a bathroom sink and not receiving food scraps etc. I tested water at full flow for several minutes and the drain did backup slightly and then gurgled down fairly quickly - may have been a separate vent issue given the building's age and sketchy plumbing, I dunno. Advised them of the issue and 4 hours of work to correct the problem and left it alone.
Thank You ...I just went thought this very seinario ... fortunately I have a basement... so I ran a new pipe and joined it to the original drain pipe in the basement...and just plugged off the pipe though the wall...
The fact that this plumber actually took time to do drywall fix and paint is amazing. Is this a standard service? Bc I’ve had several plumbers did jobs where they all indicated they don’t do any drywall repairs. Am I finding lazy plumbers?
No the plumber didn't do it I did all of the patching up and everything he was just there to fixed the pipe I pulled the cabinet out I pushed the cabinets back in afterwards I reconnected everything back upNo the plumber didn't do it I did all of the patching up and everything he was just there to fixed the pipe I pulled the cabinet out I pushed the cabinets back in afterwards I reconnected everything back up
@@tabbott429 Thanks Captain Obvious. I see two different people, but how would I know that the second person worked for different company, and wasn’t the assistant for the same company- hence my question.
It could have been done this way because he didn't want to show unsafe practices on his channel, but I would have taken the shield off my grinder and put a 6 inch cut off blade on it. I never had a seven inch grinder but that might have helped here. Also I would have used a reciprocating saw for any that I couldn't cut through with the grinder. Except I never solved the problem of reciprocating blades hitting the back wall if the back wall was too close. So I might have been stuck for the last bit at the back with cutting out a slice and cutting the last bit of the pipe with the grinder. FWIW, I clicked on the video to see the magic trick way to fix this without tearing everything out. I was disappointed that there was no magic trick. Still a nice video and fun to take a trip down memory of my days working on an old apartment building.
This is such a common error made by kitchen and bath remodelers. I cant even begin to count how many of these I have run across. Usually the remodeler will just rig whatever he can to make the trap connect to the disposal - I’ve seen all of the different rigs - backwards traps, PVC glue-type traps that have been dropped-down from the disposal with pipe, then glued into a regular 90, turned down towards the floor towards the trap, accordion tailpieces all twisted-up into spaghetti, or no trap at all. I really have seen it all over the last four decades of being a plumber. The customer never wants to hear about what it is going to take to make it right, and most have a hard time understanding what the problem really is - they just can’t grasp why their newly-remodeled kitchen needs to be torn-up for such a “minor” repair. Next time, I bet you won’t forget to measure the height of the drain before you close everything up. Next time, use the correct transition fittings, though. While what you did here may not be leaking now, it’s most likely going to start leaking sooner or later at the bottom of the No-Hub coupling you used on the base of the 4” stack. Also, that copper DWV drain on the right side is 1-1/2” DWV - not 1-1/4”. There are a few different ways to properly transition this to 1-1/2” PVC, but the easiest way is to use a 1-1/2”CI/PVCx1-1/2” copper DWV PROFLEX coupling, made by Fernco. You should also use PROFLEX couplings at the 4” CI to PVC transitions, or use Fernco couplings with stainless steel shear bands. There are other brands of these types of fittings that will work as well, but he key is to use the correct transition fitting, and if you are going to use a rubber/neoprene coupling, make sure it has a steel band to maintain the integrity of the connection - don’t use No-Hub couplings, though - what you used a No-Hub coupling for is not what they are made for. Safety: you didn’t mention anything about ensuring the CI stack will not drop after it is cut. Luckily, for you, it was blocked or strapped somewhere, or it had another vent connected to it above where you cut it, so it didn’t drop. This is a very important part of cutting any stack - especially CI. Most people just don’t realize how much forethought, experience and effort is required to do this type of job properly and safely.
You've got some good info there and you're right on everything probably except for for blaming me for the missed calculation. There was never any miscalculation the house never had a garbage disposal And it never had a dishwasher before period I had warned the owner that they weren't going to be able to drain either of the 2. And so after everything was put together she finally changed her mind and decided she wanted to attract more renters by adding the garbage disposal And ability to drain the dishwasher and was willing to put up the money to make it happen
Yes Bruce, you covered alot, but there's alot to know & to consider. I've seen so many chaotic installations over the years also & it makes one appreciate the need for the uniform plumbing code, although it certainly can be a pain in the next sometimes. Helpful information.
Another way would be to drill hole through stack at front, fit flange with Ferropre, and block old connection. Faster and less to change. No perishable connections in the wall.
Ugh. I just had a disposal go bad and had to replace it. Prior to, when I had put in a new kitchen sink, I had to juryrig a straight pipe from the disposal to the drain pipe. Which the drain pipe had been elbowed to the side to miss the copper lines that were directly over it, so the T-joint is only an inch or two below the outlet from the disposal. And honestly, it was the most unnecessarily convoluted setup... like, just T-joint it lower than the pipes, is that so hard? But anyway, I wound up having to slant my P-trap and turn it back on itself, because I couldn't have the disposal outlet facing the drain pipe, so the pipe has to come around on a 180 anyway, and then the P-trap had to slant back so the drain pipe end raised up to fit. Remodeling and repairing is such a joy, sometimes...
I wonder why you have such a huge vent stack there. Mine, at the kitchen sink is only 1 1/2" going up to the roof and then the pea trap arm coming off of that is also 1 1/2". Then it gets bigger below the pea trap arm, increasing to two inches going to the drain.
Yes that's why it is so important for the builders to build this at the right height to begin with. But the actual repair with myself and the plumber was only about 3 hours. It took me an hour and a half to undo the entire counter and pull it from the wall, and it took about two hours after he was gone for me to put everything back together so it was essentially done in a total of about one day of Labor spread over a couple of days
Great video! I just got my farmhouse sink in and it looks like the drain coming out of the disposal and the drain going into the wall will be at the same level. Will this work or does the disposal drain have to be higher than the wall drain? Thanks!
I did this once at one of my condo flip projects where they were both the same height and luckily it worked. You simply won't know until you try it whether it's going to work or not
Bro absolutely my problem right now, sucks cause it’s a rental and I can’t fix it properly. I was hoping for a flanged pipe like the p trap is supposed to use. It was installed with a slip bit and it slips out 😂😂. Man Mickey Mouse contractors
Wow this is quite involved. How much would a job like this cost? Also, would there be any case where you would use cast iron to replace back? Great video btw!
I'm not certain that cast iron is allowed any more as it has a lot of problems mainly it gets brittle sometimes they start rusting and they all develop little holes which can be really bad. So once you take it out you put something else in and that's it. The master plumber there charged $675 for about 4 hours work. Plus I was there with him, and then charged my friend about an hour's labor to remove the kitchen cabinet from the wall, and patch up the wall and put the vanity back again and do all of the testing was probably another 4 hours of labor
@@jeffostroff Thanks for the quick reply! I have a similar situation where the drain pipe is too high because the previous owner installed a deeper sink. I asked a plumber for quote and he said without looking behind the wall, he can only estimate 1500-2000, which seemed like a lot! So I have been putting it off and been using draino every 3-4 months haha
Average price for repair off a poorly planned remodel would be between $900 and $1500. Kitchen installers should know better, but the don’t always employ a good plumber to do it properly
@@bobwills4420 It's not like this was a poorly planned remodel, the builder simply made the pipe way too high and the house never had a garbage disposal or a dishwasher and instead had a very narrow sink. After the kitchen was completed the owner of the house decided that in order to attract more renters, she wanted a dishwasher and a garbage disposal added.. THIS Required lowering the pipe arm in the wall. The plumber charged $650 for Cutting the cast iron stack and moving down the drain pipe. Beyond that it was only 4 hours of work on my part to pull out the base cabinet, cut open the drywall, Put the drywallback repair the drywall afterwards and repaint and put everything back together
For this particular house there is no correct sink size if you want to have a garbage disposal and a dishwasher. Selling the house will be very difficult if you don't have both of these it'll greatly limit your market so you have no choice. It wasn't a whole lot of trouble anyway it took an hour and a half to pull out the cabinet and a couple more hours of work on the pipes and then a couple of more hours of pushing the cabinet back in not bad at all.
Been Plumbing for 25 years, for the love of god No googles or gloves he is not a true professional plumber. and you should not have him working on your jobs for the insurance issues when he looses an eye not using protection. I learned when I was young and stupid, I got a piece of hot metal in my eye cutting out cast iron pipe had to have a patch on my eye for a few months after I had to go to emergency room to get it out of my eye.
The problem with the original installation from the builder with the drain pipe going into the wall being too high, is that it doesn't allow proper drainage if you put in a garbage disposal, because the output coming out of the garbage disposal will be too low and the water will never reach the height of that drain line because the drain line is too high so the water will never drain out.
I changed my Disposal a while back and now the sink drains very slowly when there wasn't any drainage issues preciously. Typical US 3k sqft SFD with 1.5" standard Ptrap. (No other plumbing issues in the house.) Any ideas why? Some things I've found says the drain pitch could be off; another says my brand of Disposal has a poor rubber guard. If I open up the rubber guard a bit it does bubble and go a little faster but I"m not sure it still drains as fast as it did previously. Thanks for your videos.
On second thought I would definitely rent the cast iron pipe breaker it just doesn't pay to go through all that it's really too much and the cast iron usually gives you a nicer cut if the pipe isn't too rotten
Can you explain why you didn't need to install an AAV? My dad thinks I need one. Mine is plumbed similar to this. Directly in to the stack. The only difference is that it's about 15 pipe feet to the stack.
Couldn’t you attach the bathroom trap arm on its own fitting on the stack, below the kitchen fitting? In other words, the kitchen trap arm enters its own fitting on the stack, at 16” AFF, and the bathroom fitting enters tts own, separate fitting on the stack at, say, 10” or 12” AFF?
