Been installing tile over 35 years. My family has been in the business 80 years here in the metro Detroit area. Its code here now to pre mud and pre pitch our shower floors before the pans go in. They call for inspection here now and plug and water test the pans 48 hrs. I always silicone under the pan where it meets the bottom flange because high water volume can create a slow moving drain with water backing up and leaking under the pan. We always use dry pack concrete for our shower floors. Its drys much more stable and holds a pitch much better than mortar which can slump. I'll then red guard over the concrete before tiling. I like your method of small slices for the stainless steel screws...makes sense. I usually cut small holes and fill with 100% silicone before I torque them down. I just subscribed...going to check out your channel. Thanks for the vids!
you should make a video I use roofing nails but I just do the membrane never had a leak and have done huge showers overlap membrane all good tile guy comes later to do dry pack.
One of the first things I learned about tile setting is that you do not pour your mud beds. When I see the peaks in the mortar mix from your level I can tell how wet it is and that's way to wet. You are using mortar mix and that's like 2 or 3 parts sand to 1 part Portland where a mud bed is more in the range of 4 to 5 parts sand and I have known some installers to go up to 6 parts sand. This is why you get air pockets with all that cement it is sealing your mix. Set your drain to 2 to 2.5 inches figure your max rise set a couple marks out there at the perimeter and pack your bed in, use a level to clean up and get the perimeter set, use a piece of tile to set depth around drain, use some straight edges or levels to set the pitch to drain, use a 12 or 16 inch trowel to cut the mud bed in and do a little touch up and you are done. if done right and your mix is correct you should never trowel out a mud bed. your mix should be so dry that you can pack the back half of the shower in and work your way out on bigger showers. I think its a good idea to follow the products installation instructions.
We all have our own way. I never meant in literal form ( POUR ) the bed, it is in fact shoveled in, but dry packing does NOT mix the components properly...and I do not have bubbles, or any problems screeting to get my slope, doing it nearly 20 years and this works for me. But your comment is appreciated...others can learn from you and take away what they want.
Mortar mix in a bag is 4 parts sand to 1 part cement. He only shows the finished product, so where are you seeing these peaks from his mix that shows it is way too wet?
Ive done all my pans/ showers exactly like this and have never had a single issue. It just makes sense. Now with redguard that just adds another layer of confidence and peace of mind. One thing I would never ever want to do is to do all that work just to have to tear it out due to leak or wicking causing a leak.
Been doing tile 34 years and see a couple of issues. 1) I always run my durock down to floor just above the pan liner. I like to run my pan liner at least 8" up the stud. Then set the durock so that it leaves a hair of space between the bottom edge of the rock and the pan liner so the rock doesn't rub against the liner. DON'T NAIL or SCREW the bottom 8" of the rock. Let the mud push against the durock. 2) I wrap my curb with durock before I mud. If you measure the height (× 2)and width of the curb, cut a piece of durock that measurement. Ex. 3 2×4's are 4 1/2 " tall. Your durock will be 12 3/4" wide(4 1/2×3 3/4×4 1/2). Score it on those measurements, snap it but don't cut it. Put some thinset on the back, "fold" the rock over the curb. You only nail or screw it on the front side of the curb. You "lock" it on the inside of the curb with the mud. 3) I don't block behind the pan liner. Because the durock is on the inside it doesn't need the support from blocks. Plus, you need the space behind the walls where you fold the corners of the pan liner so they don't push the tile out at the bottom. 4) I don't pre slope my pans. I don't need 4 or 5" of mud on my shower floor especially with a liner in between. It's just not necessary. The only reason for doing it is to prevent the bed from absorbing water over the years, but as long as there's a lip on the drain flange there always be a little water. That's just supposition on my part, and I'm sure somebody'll tell me I'm wrong about it, but I'm a big believer in 'tried and true' and I've never had to redo a shower pan for that. I have adopted one new step... I like to waterproof the subfloor with red guard or something similar. It's not neccessary, after all I did 30 years without it, but at this point it's just cheap insurance and I think it makes the customers feel better. I know I've thrown a lot at you in a text and maybe I should have just did my own video but I learn something new everyday. And it is true when you say everybody does it a little different.
It's true that the folded liner does push out the densheild or durarock a little and there is some relief for the liner inbetween the studs for liner, but not in the corners where there is studs. That's why you always see a cut tile at bottom on a slight angle to compensate for that thick fold. I have always cut away i/2 inch of material from the studs and bottom plate all the way around so as to relieve that stress on the board and so as to not see that angled tile. It's quite simple to do when your building the frame from scratch (use a 2x3 bottom plate and cut 2x4 studs to match, and it only takes a short time to do this to an existing frame, a slight cut with a sawzall or sonic tool 8 or 12 inches up, then just hammer and chisel out the extra material.
I have learn alot seeing ur work. I'll quieted a pro tile setter by what I do and learned. Cool. Keep it going. My style his knowledge. I'm common sense. Thanks.
I’m doing mine possibly today and I was looking for details on mortar mix to the drain. For example, how high, and do you pour it over the screws, etc... Hopefully one of your other videos will show it. Thanks for posting these.
Hey, pans should be done with dry pack not wet mud. Moisture will absorb through dry pack down to the pan and into the weep holes. After wet mud dries it has a very little absorption rate so water will sit between the wall and floor tile gap. Test it and you will see. Also, never eyeball the perimeter of the shower pan and add thinset later to make up for uneven mud. Use dry pack and a level to make it perfect from the start. It might take a little longer but it's worth it . For the person who said not to use 2"× 4"s for a shower curb. Really? You wrap your pan over the wood, add metal lath over it (no nails on top or inside) and float with cement. It's been done like that for 50+ years. I have done hundreds and never had any issues. There are other ways that will work also, but lath is the standard for very experienced tile setters.Most of the premade Styrofoam curbs are garbage and should ever be used.
Thank you for the dry pack statement, that definitely makes sense. I also like the metal lath over the curb. A little more skill required but worth the extra effort.
hey ....thanks so much for taking the "your" time to make all these videos ,they're GREAT !!! i have just finished re-doing our bath with a tiled shower.your videos and suggestions have been very helpful. thanks again and keep them coming. have a happy and blessed new year.
Excellent video and just like you said the whole point is to not have water get into your pan. You need to Seal Seal Seal the tile to keep the water from penetrating the grout! I think that’s one very important step a lot of people forget to do and keep up on!
Thank you for sharing this! Very thought out like I wish every contractor would do! I’m in the middle of a remodel and got ahold of a bad tile guy. My general contractor put this guy on the tile job and I’m finding out the hard way that he doesn’t know what he’s doing! If I had watched this video I would have recognized he’s doing it the wrong way much earlier. Now it’s all being ripped out.
I've been watching these videos, and have built a shower pan per the recommendations and let it dry for 6 days with a fan on it. Its all in and one coat of redguard on it so far. I used 5 60 pound bags, so its quite a bit of pan. 3 two by fours for the curb, and 2x4s side by side covering the original inch thick wood floor spanning the joists and now the shower side of the curb is about a half inch to the top of the curb (after the rubber is put in). Been trying to decide on tiles for the floor and its a must that the tiles be non-slip. So I thought I'd go with stone. Standing in the store looking at all the stuff, and the sand mortar floor I put in is kind of sloped but not uniformly. Towards the drain gets a little steeper. So I'm standing there and cant really use large tiles, and worried that the smaller 2-inch square tiles won't have perfectly spaced grout lines as they contour the mortar pan, so I said screw it. Went to the farm store and bought a 3/4-inch thick rubber stall mat larger than the floor, so I'll cut it to fit. Cut out a hole for the black 4 inch square drain I got off Amazon. Set it in just below the top of the rubber mat, and seal it with black urethane caulking like they use to seal car windshields. Strong, waterproof, and indestructible stuff. Rubber mat has coin sized raised pattern on top, so I shouldn't slip and die. We'll see if it works! Stall mat was $50. Tile was looking at about $150 for the 15 square feet. I'll put nice tile on the walls.
Thank you. Yes it was helpful and had a lot of good information. It did not, however, show you actually making the pan. That is why I watched the video. Now THAT would have been helpful!!
I've been watching you counter sink the base of the drain into the plywood flooring and thinking there must be an easier way to go about it than to use a saber saw. This is what i came up with and it worked very well. Put the base over the floor drainpipe draw a circle around the circumference of the base with a marker remove the base put it face down on the floor get your tri-square and measure the thickness from the underside to the floor surface. mine measured 1/4" pretty standard. Get a router and a mortice or straight bit set it at 1/4" deep and route out the circle you drew. The drain base will fit nice and level and flush with the floor, that is if the floor is level to begin with. Awesome results very clean looking.
It would be very helpful if u showed the actual installation of the liner, especially the corners of it and coming over the curb. If that part is not 100% correct it's just a matter of time before the liner and pan fails somewhere
I enjoy your videos. I also watch some of your competitors' channels. I hope to build a shower one of these days using my favorite techniques from all of you.
for the people that didnt listen he has plenty of videos describing why and why not to do certain things and how to complete a shower pan from start to finish
You are correct in not sealing the top of the drain to the liner, there are slots to allow the water to drain. You did not mention sealing the underside of the liner to the bottom side of the drain, we used a small ring of plumbers putty. This will prevent water from running under the liner in the event of a backed up drain.
Your drain flange is upside down. Those drainage troughs are supposed to go against your PVC membrane. Leaving it the way you have it set up makes a dam. In addition, underneath your PVC membrane liner, you should have started off with what I call a pre pitch pan. That allows your PVC membrane liner to properly drain through the weep holes. Without having your liner pitch towards your drain, any water that should happen to make it down there will just pool up. Creating a never-ending mildew problem. So remember this. Pre-pitch pan first, PVC membrane liner second, them a minimum 2 in dry pack pan. The pitch towards your drain should be around 1/8 inch per foot. And the drain itself should set in the floor 1/16 of an inch once the final trim is on.
The information you provide is erroneous which shows you don't know what you're talking about, there is no way to put a drain flange upside down, the pre pitch idea is fake science, I talk about that on a lot of my videos
@matt brasket some of the drain flanges are designed with the flow through troughs on both sides, those style flanges give you an option the point the thread extension upwards allowing you to use a thicker base. Anybody who does their work like this guy, won't be in business long. I have done 40 or 50 custom showers over the years, and at least 100 kitchens. I have set well over 100,000 square foot of residential tile. I did not go to any trade school, but I have been taught by some of the best old timers, and can school just about anybody in many fields of construction.
You're right. Grooves down to create a channel/tunnel for the water to weep back. But since he doesn't believe in prepitching it the water is not going back anyway
Hello, Your videos are clear and eye opening as to what you found with the tiled bathrooms. I would like to have you clarify the type of grout that should be used for shower floors? Thank you and please continue to share your professional knowledge. George
I love your videos. They've been extremely helpful in my bathroom renovation. I was a tile setter years ago, but we only did commercial jobs and residential floors/backsplashes. So showers are new to me. I installed my shower pan about a week ago and today when I was getting ready to hang the backerboard I noticed I could feel slight movement in the pan, around the edges, and I can see the pan liner move some when I put weight on the edge of the pan. This shower is on a concrete floor so there's no movement under the pan. Do you know what would cause this?
Good video! I use a Mapei product called Mapecem premix to get both the pre pan and top pan done in a day. It's not cheap but well worth it. Saves time on the job. However I just started using a durock shower system for standard and custom shower bases. It's a bit more money but installation time is around 2.5 to 3.5 hours to be tile ready. So far it has been great!
Thanks for the info Brian. I noticed that Durock is making different products now, branching out I guess to fill the needs of the DIY'er. The pans I set like this one take me about 90 minutes start to finish, just the liner & mortar ;-)
That's cool! Yeah Durock has come out with pretty slick products. I wouldn't say there kits are for everyone, there still is the element of the drain plumbing to consider. But that time frame of 2.5 to 3.5 hours includes walls and waterproofing the bathroom floor. Like you I have always done my mud pans to the specifications of what Oatey provides. I would've never tried a shower system like Durock, Schluter, or Wedi before a creature of habit I guess. But I told myself this year that I need to get with it. Contractors in my area almost only use systems now because of the warranty advantages. I know it's ruff to try something new but I'm glad I did. Just an FYI. Good luck! How's business over there. For me its finally feeling like the good old days again. Cheers!
I have a few questions. First what sealent do you recomend for the grout? Do you apply any sealant to the mortar bed before applying the tile? If water ever got into this mortar bed, would it not become very heavy?Would it requier special support?
Starr Tile U do a hell of a neat & clean job putting in & explaining everything about the shower pan liner. just one thing i would like to see is how U fold the corners in back & how U fold them in the front & come out of the corners & fold it over the curb without cutting on each side of the curb? it would be so nice of U if U could show that. if i could i would buy U a tripod to hold that damn camera then U could talk more Thanks
+kicken chicken LOL !! I actually have a tripod, but I get focused on the job and forget the "little steps" because I'm so used to doing them, I forget others are unaware. Will try to do better ;-)
Would you consider using cementall on show pan. It has no aggregates and puting fibermesh would keep it from separated. Also you views on redguard for water proofing?
Illegal shower pan install by code. If you ever got inspected you would know that. Pan liner should extend 3-4" above curb and you've left a failure point at the curb ends. You should use corners and pre slope before the liner.
Jason Bauman Sir you are correct, an inspector worth his salt would hold you to the factory specs , which should comply with the code since this is a listed and approved method. Seems to me more folks should read the the entire spec sheet rather than chuck them in the trash. Of course we are talking about permitted work and that is a different conversation.
There is NO need for pre slope that Mortar will not allow water to run downhill underneath. It will fraction into the concrete until it’s completely saturated then drip out the weep holes
Hi thanks for doing these. Very helpful. So you always put the mortar bed first before the hardie boards or durock on the walls? Also how high should the finished screw drain over the mortar bed? Should it be level?
I have a question, if I'm installing a shower pan on top of a flat concrete floor, should I slope the flat concrete floor before the membrane or can I install the membrane on top of the flat concrete floor and then add my mortar mix and then slop the mortar mix to the drain, or is it best to slope the flat concrete floor a little and then install the membrane and then the mortar mix and slope that as well, it's a little confusing cause most videos don't show you that,
If you install your Durarock or Denshield before you put in your concrete base then you need not put in your bracing and you have somewhere to put in a nice level line, also I never install the barrel till I'm tiling then I can adjust it to the tile height without guessing. I also leave the liner intact, (do not cut out) till the tiling stage so as to protect anything from falling into the drain.
Roy Ormonde wouldn’t even try telling that method to this guy. He thinks you’ll get too much mold and mildew build up but if you waterproof correctly then that shouldn’t be a problem. That’s how I do it though and have never had a problem and you get the job done faster that way as well
@@tylercrumley8082 What I don't understand is why anyone puts greenboard, blueboard or drywall in a shower at all and then covers it with this Redgard stuff. These materials have never been suitable for a shower or recommended, it's always been durarock or denshield, that's what they're made for. No wonder they get mold. Not sure about this Redgard either, I've never used it and have never had to go back to fix a shower or a leak. I guess to each his own.
@@royormonde3682 red guard is actually an amazing material bud! I use every job for multiple different specs. Water proofing is it's major component however it is super strong and flexible! Not sure what makes it so perfect for sticking tile too but it holds like a bonded lath wall! Lol give it a try if you haven't already.
Sounds good. This is my 2nd one and I didn't like shaping a curb with 4:1. It didn't seem solid to me. I like the idea of using durock. It gives a straight curb.
Durock makes for a solid curb, and buttering it with thinset is just something I prefer doing to mesh the whole thing together...the ( 2 to 3 coats ) of redgard insures the curb will NEVER see water,,,which is why I'm fine screwing the durock in place through liner. Plus the solid tile on top/sides & sealing it makes it 110% waterproof
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+StarrTile I have been using both your videos and TileMasterGA's videos as I am progressing through my shower project. I have learned a LOT from both of you, and it's a nice surprise to see the two of you exchanging messages like this. Keep up the good work!
hey Bob, quick question. I am doing a similar shower pan /curb and I have a similar gap between the outside of the curb and the bathroom floor. what is a good method to seal that gap so whatever water goes over curb doesn't go through the floor down to ceiling in my kitchen? I always enjoy your videos.
Great video the amount of information you pack into every video is great. I'm about to do my first pan and I'm following your process to a T. But the one thing I want to know is what is a better process for waterproofing the walls. The red guard or the "schlutter" wall membrane. I've never heard of red guard until I saw one of your vids. Keep the vids coming
+Dan Kush Thanks for the kind words. I never use Schluter, it's a pain to install and it cost over $500 for a basic shower "kit", whereas Redgard is a one gallon bucket for $50 and will cover an average shower with nearly 3 coats and is VERY waterproof. Good luck on your project !!
+StarrTile alright red guard it is. I like the sound of painting it on anyways seems like a easier/ cheaper project. How high up on the walls do I go above the shower head or to the ceiling.
The reason you put the silicone caulk or plumbers putty under the liner beneath the clamp ring is in case water comes back up from the drain. It creates a water tight seam. If you only consider water draining from the liner, it seems unnecessary. But if the drain is blocked, water coming back up may find a way under the liner which goes to the subfloor. Also, I noticed you didn't use dam corners on your curb.
When you have Square shower drain- v.2018-6 Neo Drain, is it best to solvent weld the drain body to the threaded adapter so that you can easily adjust the height if needed? or do you just solvent weld the body in place at the finished height and mortar to it?
I have watched a handful of StarrTile's videos and have found them quite helpful. He appears to be a strong decision-maker who obviously thinks things through. One: I think that pre-slope would be simply a second redundancy if you take in to account the red-guard. The science of red-guard states that it is equal to the PVC liner in its ability to hold water. If we take that into full consideration and except it as so, we now see that the liner and pre-slope are the only safety net when we take away the red-guard. So sure, adding a slope would indeed increase the effectiveness of the liner, but the idea is that it never even gets to the cement which creates the only necessary slope when you use a paintable membrane. Sure, it might also be code to have a pre-slope, but that is only because code hasn't caught up with, or validated current technologies.... or the average contractors basic intelligence. Also directly to StarrTile: It seems that you rely on the red-guard heavily for your seal.... So why not bury the cement board into your shower pan so that when you go over everything with red-guard the seal between the two are as close as physics allows? You have chosen to raise it instead of going on top, but going in seems the best way to eliminate penetration...no?
I error on side of caution, I'm not doing this for myself, I have customers to answer to & want NO call backs. It's actually better for me to raise the board, makes my job easier.
Did you remember to put wire and concrete so it actually has a slope on the bottom then the sleep sheet or do you just lay flat on the wood or existing concrete?
great description. quick question doing my first shower pan. after the pvc blanket is installed and the cement is to be applied. is the cement suppose to me level with the drain or below? thanks God bless
+mudandguts33 It won't be cement, it will be mortar mix...sand topping. And it is thick at perimeter with slope to drain about a quarter inch below drain. Once dried a few days, you tile on top of it.
I'm doing my 1st shower and I'm at this juncture. I'm waiting for my weephole protector from Amazon because no place stocks them in my area. But I didn't even know what a weephole protector was until a few days ago - not counting pebbles.
If you are doing this for yourself for the first time, you should probably use a dry pack mortar rather than the concrete mix he uses. The concrete is actually harder to work with, for a beginner, as it is so loose (runny) that it is effected more by the pressure you put on it with your trowel. You will end up with a more wavy floor and more trowel marks like you see in his corners and throughout really. You will then need to deal with this with a stone or some similar tool after it has set up. MORE WORK. In this video he skips the floating procedure, which is actually the most involved process. After the liner has been installed (of course with a pre-slope underneath), the way I do my dry pack shower pans is to cut yourself some small (roughly 2" x 2" or 3" x 3" pieces of tile.) These will be used to establish your level height height around your perimeter. I use a laser, but you potentially only have a level which is fine. After you have set the threaded drain to height, you will need to establish slope. Figured at 1/4 per inch, you can find how much higher the perimeter should be than the drain. Example : 4' by 4' shower with centralized drain equates to a perimeter that is 1/2 inch higher than. After you have mixed the dry-pack (which can be any ratio between 3 to 1 and 7 to 1 sand to cement. I like about 3.5 to 1. It test out at a high compression strength and the cement doesn't build up on your floats so much when you are troweling. When packed well this ratio turns out to be about 3200 p.s.i. as per MAPPA test labs), in the corners, dump the mortar a few inches high and a swath swath of a foot or so. I use a laser and what is called a story pole to set my heights. You probably don't have this so I will explain how to set perimeter with a level. Set the pre-cut piece on top of the mortar in the corners. It is nice to have some hard horse shoe shims to stack on drain. This way you can set the desired slope height right on the drain and level off of them. In this case you would set 1/2" of shims on the drain. With your float, or some other tool, pack the pieces of tile in the corners down to a height of 1/2" above drain. With the hard shims on top of the drain, you would just set your level on the drain shim and the piece of tile in the corner and beat to a level height. With no shims, you will have to be doing more measuring with your tape. Once all the corners have been set to height, with dry-pack, fill in the areas between the mortar previously set in corners. This means the areas along the wall. You will want the mortar to be higher than the tile spots in the corner due to the fact you will be packing it down. It will need to be higher than the spots even after it is packed. Pack this all down ensuring not to effect the heights of your tile "spots". Check your tile heights. If they are still where you want them, use a screed stick to remove all the excess mortar. Lightly drag the excess mortar away from the wall and toward the drain. Once you have removed the excess mortar, and the screed stick lays flat touching the tops of the pieces of tile, you should have a 2-3 inch level surface against one wall, hit it with your wood float. Repeat this on remaining walls. By this point you should have a 2-3 inch level perimeter around the shower. Fill in rest of shower pan with mortar and pack down. This should go without saying, but you will have been crawling around on a rubber liner this whole time. Be careful with it. Put some sort of protection down if you need. Now with a few different lengths of screeds (I have aluminum straight edges, but you can cut screeds out of a straight 1" x 4" or so) set one end of the screed on your drain. Lightly remove, by dragging the screed, all the mortar that is higher than the drain in between it and the wall. What you are looking for is for your screed stick to lay flat, with mortar underneath, between drain and the perimeter wall height. Once you have done that around the the whole shower, you should have what is basically a large mortar bowl. Hit with your wood float, a mag float, then a steel float. Don't steel float to mirror finish or anything like that, but do use one. It does help to make a bit more water resistant pan. To any with a dumb comment, I know the pan will be getting wet through the tile joints, but you don't want to have some pan that absorbs water as soon as it hits it. I started to be less descript by the end, but most likely nobody will read this much and then only call me a moron. That's RU-vid. Watch a dry pack video and fill in the blanks.
StarrTile, thank you very much for the video. I am going to do install one in the near future (maybe) based off your video. I recently bought a house and the last owner just installed a new tile shower (DIY project for sure). There are no leaks when it runs normally (regular shower), but one time I placed a wash cloth over the drain so my son had a few inches of water to play in. When I lifted the cloth to "drain" the shower, I had water leak downstairs. I think the water creates a little pressure as all that water is draining through the P trap after the drain. When I opened up the ceiling and replicated the "leak" it looked like it was leaking from the bottom of the drain. After watching your video, Im wondering if the installer simply didn't silicone the vinyl to the actual drain. What are your thoughts on this? Is this normal? I don't want to tear a "new" shower out, but I also want to make sure it is done right. Thanks in advance for your help!
Is it possible that the liner wasn't glued to drain ? Yes, but I rarely glue, rather I cut the X instead of the circle...if they cut a circle then yes, not caulking could be it....OR other things. It's not easy to tell where a leak comes from, you need to kill the patient to find the disease. It's extremely rare I find the issue UNTIL I tear it all out, but even if you know, fixing in place is usually not possible.
Thank you for the reply! And I like your X cut, it makes perfect sense! I hate no knowing whats wrong... ok, million dollar question, would you suggest I tear it out since I can create a leak?
If you think it's the drain area, try fixing that first...it's a huge deal to do a whole pan over. Here's a video on how to do just the drain> ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fB0WjUJ36vA.html
I agree with your theory of why you don't use a pre-slope, but I also disagree. Any mason product is always starving for moisture. So if water does get to the poured pan under tiles or from behind it will spread out to the rest of the dry pan until its fully saturated, its not a theory its a fact with all mason products. Well once that whole poured slope gets fully saturated it has to go somewhere. The shower will not always be in optimal conditions of warm temperatures where the moisture can evaporate or dry out. You may have a shower that gets used heavily and the time periods between usage will not allow the shower base to fully dry out. So by having the pre-slope under the rubber membrane it will direct excess water to the weeping holes when the pad becomes fully saturated, and can't absorb anymore more moisture. if this does occur and you have no pre slope and the plywood base isn't level then you will get pooling under the pad sitting on the rubber membrane. So I say use the pre slope its not hurting the end result, if anything it helps. Great video by the way, just my thoughts.
shawn tarasewicz You are absolutely right on point. I think this guy just taught himself how to install a shower and loves to hear himself talk. In another video he went into an expensive neighborhood showing shower pans without pre slope to back up his psylosophy. As if a new home that costs 350k means a better job is guaranteed. NOT!! Many if not most contractors pick their subcontractors by who gives them the lowest bid. Not all but many. Just because a house cost 350k or more means nothing! Tile companies are like any other trade. The quality of a job depends on which crew they send out to do the work. Your finished product is solely dependent upon the quality of tradesman that shows up to do the work. A tile company which has been in business for 50 years, still might have a man on the job who has only been laying tile for 1 year.
Hello. I've been following your videos very closely and I just installed my rubber liner as your directions. I have a question about how much the liner folds in the corners stand out. It seems to me that that fold would push the concrete board out on the corners where the folds are and make it uneven along the bottom. The folds push out a maybe a quarter inch to at least an eighth of anch. inch.
New to the channel and really enjoy it. What's the rule of thumb regarding how far to screw your drain down when setting you mortar slope? Do you factor 1/8 of thinset and 3/16 for the tile?
EXCELLENT! how many days the mortar needs to dry after you pour it in to be able to do something with it? I plan to coat it with one of those waterproofing liquid membranes - Red guard I think is what you call it in States. Just poured in the showerpan based on your video and now wondering how long I need to wait, It has moisture plastic membrane under it so I just don't want to seal all the water inside the mortar from all sides by fully waterproofing it from all sides.
Your last sentence told the whole story, you are correct you do not want to seal in moisture.. as a rule I like to wait at least 3 days before I set tile on top of it with a fan running on it 24/7...longer the better.
Wouldn't you do whites, pressure has moister in it and then it's going to get sealed... sealed moisture.. but otherwise great vid very helpful. In prep for a job with a narrow and long shower, similar. Helped a bunch
Question, I have a square drain and I had it square with the actual bathroom floor, but somehow it got unsquare with the bathroom floor after I poured the mortar bed. What can I do? Do I just suck it up and have he square drain not square with the shower and bathroom floor or can I turn it to make it square?
TheStephenBaker that depends on how good you want your end product... if you are going to bust up the mortar to fix it then I would suggest starting over, the stress put on the drain and on the membrane would be too risky and definitely do not adjust your tile to match your crooked drain. Start over and take your time when doing your prep work...Dry fit the drain and measure 2,3 and even 4 times before pouring.
Did you put spacers or gravel around your weep holes when you set the bed? I'm trying to figure out what to use. Regarding sealant around drain, I'd use that in case water backs up or the shower starts to drain too slow. A little extra work but worth it in my opinion.
It is illogical to put stuff at weep holes, as they can CLOG the holes...counterintuitive I know, but the mortar is porous which allows water in, whereas gravel or spacers are DENSE, not allowing water in should one or two lodge at the hole. My take on clog at shower drain : It is extremely rare....in fact I can't recall EVER having a backed up shower in my life, only in commercial setting like a gym. But caulking wouldn't hurt.
StarrTile - Thanks for the input. So many people recommend different things it's impossible to know if I am doing anything right! Thanks again and have a good one.
Good day to you. My bathroom does not really have enough space to comfortably fit both a tiled shower and a bathtub. As I have young kids a tub is very useful. I was wondering whether this method i.e. PVC membrane, mudded-in and tiled tray etc. can be used to created a small square tub, say 3'x3' and 2' deep? I appreciate that overflow would have to be dealt with and the drain would need to be plugged at bath-time.
It can be folded around an outside corner but can be problematic to put in your backer board on top of those folds, some people will simply cut at that 45, cut off the excess pieces, and then glue in a top piece where the cut was made
No preslope? If the water goes through the grout into the shower pan linear it just sits there.. with a pre slope under the linear the water can drain down towards and through the weep hole.
Water will never reach the pan. He puts 2 to 3 coats of red guard on it, it might as well be a block of plastic. He's also done videos on why he thinks preslope are pointless when building his pan like he does.
My comment to this is. You mention in another of your videos about how not to install the backer board over the liner. I clearly see here that there is no backer board behind do when do you install the backer board?
The only thing j would say about using pressure treated is that it is stringer but eventually dry out n shrink alittle n may or may not crack tile..i framed a shower in a attic couple days later some my pressure treated 2x4 s warped..its never happened to me
StarrTile in one of your comment you are saying: liner first up to 8-12 inches up to the wall so wall boards will overlaps it and go down almost(1 inch short) to the pan. But in your istallation I do not see liner go up to the wall 8-12in. I see it is not going up to wall at all thus living a gap for water after you will install wall boards. For my understanding: liner first up to wall 8-12 in. Then felt paper overlaping liner down almost to the pan. Then cement board with silicone in the corners and over screw heads. After this- tile on the bottom, then on wall. Any comments ? Thank you.
2x6 is the blocking, then another 2x4 as bottom plate so in this instance it's pretty close to 8'', although there are no rules except liner should be higher than the curb which is 4 1/2'' and wallboard should overlap liner...in this video both are true. Every job is slightly different. And floating the wallboard an inch above pan is something I adopted only last year. I have many videos showing how I do every step, some are repetitive, and there are others with videos that are different than mine...it's ultimately up to you as to how you build your shower. Felt paper is not used if you'll be wateproofing the wallboard, and I don't silicone corners, and 1st row of tile sit on ledger board, the last tile set are bottom row....so as I said, look on my channel for other videos, the one you see here is 4 years ago.
Quick question, specifically what type of mortar do you use for the pan? I have seen a few of your videos where you used Quikrete mortar mix (yellow and green bag, #1102). I have seen a lot of other contractors use a portland cement and sand mixture. if you can help me out with that I would appreciate it.
u guys r a trip telling people he is wrong should have done this and shouldnt have done that but yet u are on his channel watching his vids if u know how to do then why r u here plus he says there is no right or wrong just a correct way and also says there are many ways to do this is just his but great vid man
I want to remodel my shower in my mobile home...For the show dam would i be ok nailing the 2x4's directly to the floor ?.. Also seeing as the walls in mobile homes arent the thickest or strongest would i be ok simply using the cement board for my shower walls and tiling ..
I have zero knowledge on construction of mobile homes, but I would definitely try screws before nails on your curb, and I would definitely use quarter inch backer board on your walls
Do the shower walls only come down to the top of the liner? I know you said not to put inside pan, I don't see in this how you could put a wall behind the liner since it is flush with the wood trim. So would I cut the wall board to just above the pan, then coat with the Red Guard everything? There would be a space between where the wall comes down to meet the pan. Maybe a trim of that tape would keep the Red Guard from seeping into the line where the wall and pan meet.
Liner 1st, up the wall 8-12'' or so. Then pan is poured...next day wall board goes on wall to with-in about 1'' of pan, leaving a gap there. After screw holes and seams are filled, Redgard whole thing. Then floor tile, grout it, then wall tile.
Liner 1st, up the wall 8-12'' or so. Then pan is poured...next day wall board goes on wall to with-in about 1'' of pan, leaving a gap there. After screw holes and seams are filled, Redgard whole thing. Then floor tile, grout it, then wall tile.
Liner 1st, up the wall 8-12'' or so. Then pan is poured...next day wall board goes on wall to with-in about 1'' of pan, leaving a gap there. After screw holes and seams are filled, Redgard whole thing. Then floor tile, grout it, then wall tile.
Starr Tile since i was so hard on U i went back & watched you're video again & looked a little closer. i got it know i could see how U folded the corners & came over the curb.wouldn't it be ok to cut a piece tuck it under about 3" & let it come up 3" staple top edge on both ends of the curb & silacone caulk before U butter the curb just to be on the safe side. thought Id let U know i figured it out all by myself. Keep up the perfesional work.i need to learn to spell too don't i
+kicken chicken Any way you do it is fine, all tilers do it different, so long things under the tile are waterproofed JUST IN CASE. Most things are common sense and thinking things through ;-)
Maybe it's time you step up your game. Rather than using mortar for your tile bed. Use a dry pack. But before you start that, cut yourself some 2 or 2 1/2 in wide boards the length of the inside perimeter of your shower pan. Using only pressure, create a frame inside your shower pan and make sure that it is properly level. Make up a six-by-six box in the center and put that in the location of your drain. These will be removed shortly. Mixing one part Portland cement and two parts sand together dry. Note. It is okay if the sand is damp or moist. You do not want to use sand with no moisture in it. Fill the entire pan area compacting it down as you go. Using your outside wooden guide and center box you should make sure that your surface is flat and smooth and everything is packed down firmly. I like to use a grout float. Once you're satisfied with that, carefully remove the boards on the outer perimeter. You may find it easier if you put a few screws into the top of the boards to help pull them out one at a time. Fill them voids in making sure to pack them well. Remove your center 6 by 6 box and set your drain to its proper height. Pack any remaining voids left around the drain. Inspect your shower pan with a level to make sure you have proper pitch. 1/8 inch per foot. Everything good? Next step, spray down your dry pack with a spray bottle. Going over the entire pan several times thoroughly. The dry pack will absorb the water activating the Portland cement. Depending on the size of the shower pan, you will have to fill the spray bottle up a few times to several times. You do not want it soaking wet. Check to make sure your drain height is still good. Cover with plastic for a few hours. This will make sure the moisture has a chance to properly activate all the Portland cement thoroughly before any water starts evaporating. Remove plastic at the end of the day. Allowing to dry overnight. I recommend running a fan on low overnight to help evaporate the moisture. The next morning you should be good to walk on it and work on it. I recommend laying cardboard down while finishing up the shower walls and putting waterproofing up. I prefer to use red guard, two coats. Before putting the walls up, check with customer one last time to make sure on location of grab bars if there are any and to have proper backing to adequately hold them in place. Don't expect some bullshit drywall anchor to hold a grab bar. It should be fastened to some sort of framing. I like to use 2x6 or 2x8 securely screwed to the framing. Make sure to take notes and how far down from the ceiling the center of these fastening points are. Take a few pictures. Any recessed niches for shampoo bottles etc should be thoroughly coated with red gard. Shower door curb should be thoroughly red gard. Good luck with your project
Brian Sandy - question for ya; the dry pack thickness is probably what?...2”-3” +- ?.... I’m having a hard time picturing a spray bottle activating the Portland all the way through.... does it really? Also: once it’s dry is the drypack solid or does it crumble? Appreciate your reply🙏
@@timshoemaker.9752 like a rock. Depending on the size of the pan, spray a mist and just keep spraying. Several bottles later you will notice water draining threw the weep holes. Keep in mind you will be using damp sand. Not soaking wet. Damp. Then cover with plastic.
@@timshoemaker.9752 the size of the pan will determine roughly how many times you have to refill the spray bottle. Don't use it like a squirt gun. You want a fine mist. You may want to try a pump spray. You don't want to use a dry powdery sand. It should be damp enough for you too almost pack into a snowball before you blend it with the Portland cement. Try to maintain around a quarter inch of pitch per foot. Depending on your skill level, this will help you prevent pooling of your finished product and give you a little wiggle room when setting the tile. When the dry pack has cured, verify you have proper pitch and a smooth flow. You can easily adjust your Pan slope and it eliminates any potential highspots with a grinder and diamond wheel. I use a variable speed grinder at low RPMs and keep the surface wet while I do that to keep the dust down. Your pan will not be crumbly. Also make sure your pan is at least 2 inches thick. Any low spots in your pan can easily be addressed with some rapid set mortar. Take the time to do it right. Even if you have to add a coating on top of your entire pan, make sure you have proper pitch and no low spots before you set any tile on it. Clean smooth straight edges. Make sure your pan does not raise up suddenly at the edges. Clean it up properly before you start tiling.
Brian Sandy I wantta see you do a video!! I’m a builder (32 years) and did do tile briefly in my first 2-3 years, anyway> you’re describing how the old timers were doing it > seriously > consider doing a video brother👍
@@StarrTile is there a standard size for the glass type shower doors. Like suppose a person made an odd size shower, let's say 3 1/2 X 5 1/2 or whatever. Could they potentially have a hard time finding one those doors that fits?
@@kaboom362 I suppose if you're getting a prefab setup that you would know that in advance and filled out your walls appropriately. But when I leave a job there is no glass, my customer will get a glass company to come out and custom measure & install frameless set up
