I'm at a loss of words for right now I've been waiting 3 days to watch this video hoping that to be something good in it and you sir have just made in my opinion the best tile shower pan video on the internet!!!!!! I've been trying to tell people this for years thank you so much as a 23 year tile veteran.......
Great video. We own Sutton Plumbing & Flooring. Remodle a lot of bathrooms and here in Oklahoma the only authority regarding the specs of a shower pan is in fact the plumbing code, specifically chapter 4 IPC, however, in our area there is little to no inforcement on pan test requirements by most of the inspectors we come across and it's honestly left a multitude of problems for homeowners as the quaility of home building in this area seems to be getting worse, and not better. Hence my appreciation for videos such as this. We actually build more slope in our preslope than in the actual finished floor, protect our weep holes and let the customer know of how the system is designed to work from the get go. It's parts of the sales pitch from the beginning actually. Keep up the good videos! Thanks again
In Oregon if you can fog a mirror your a " journey man tile setter". I cane up in trade in San Jose and joined a BAC #3 in Millbrae Ca. and served an apprenticeship and 1 Saturday a month went to trade school and still education with "Schluter" workshop. Thanks for insight and direction. Ive witnessed so much incompetence, money first and lack of prep in our craft. The worst was " Glad bags" duct tape together for a shower pan in a log cabin. Stay strong and educated and protect our craft for future generations.
I run my pan liner usually around 8 inches up the wall, and my last fastener on the backer board is around 2 inches higher than the curb height. If you were using a cement backer board, I recommend waterproofing the bottom of it and running the mud to it because the mud pan will hold the backer in place and then when the mud pan is dry, tape and waterproof all of your corners around the perimeter, and at least 5 feet up each wall, and then waterproof the rest of the wall unless you are using a waterproof membrane and waterproof the floor
I agree always follow the manufacture instructions but sometimes their system is flawed, meaning there system isn't as waterproofed as they claim. The biggest issue l see is contractors rushing the process (dry time, don't have all the right material so they will use the wrong stuff and don't spend the time for detailed application of material). I will say this though the manufacturer has it wrong about the board being in the pan, it will wick and cause more damage. That's my 34 years of experience even in a completely done right install. Nice job on the video.
I built 15 showers over a period of about 10 years in an apartment building we owned. I used the preslope, liner, pan, tile approach on every one of them. I had one failure that I know of but the rest of the showers I built never showed any signs of leaking or other problems. The mistake I made on the shower that failed: The shower pan mortar was too wet. It was the first shower I built and I couldn't believe how dry the shower instructions said it should be. After seven or eight years the shower developed a bad odor. We demolished the pan and found that the weep holes were jammed with cement that had flowed into them. I did almost everything else the way this video suggested. I used Hardibacker and embedded it into the pan. This became controversial after my tiling days were over. But we didn't seem to have a problem with that. I didn't install the drain exactly the way the manufacture recommended. I installed the drain so that the least amount of cement under it was about 3/4 inch instead of installing it so that there was only about 1/4 inch of cement under it. I didn't like the idea of the preslope being as thin as 1/4 inch. The above step might have saved me because most instructions say to put tar paper under the preslope so the mortar doesn't have the water sucked out of it too fast. By the time I realized I wasn't doing that part right I had already built several showers and I never had a problem with it so I didn't put tar paper between the preslope and the plywood. I didn't use the inside corners initially, nobody seemed to carry them so I just thought the professionals must not be using them. Later on I ordered them through the internet. I never caulked the shower pans at the wall and the showers didn't develop the a crack between the wall and the pan. I don't know why that was. Maybe caulking the shower pans would have been a good idea but it also can be ugly. One reason cracks might not have formed at the base of the wall was that when the hardibacker was embedded in the pan the there was a very good connection between the wall and the pan. I built a cavity behind where the membrane went against the wall. The prevented a bulge at the bottom when I installed the hardibacker.
Ive seen thousands of zero pre sloap pans and have even had to use a shop vac to remove the water from the pan when I was doing the dimo on a leaking shower pan
The kerdi method or others similar seems to be better than the preslope/rubber liner method. Ive seen so many problems with pan liners and even ones with a preslope. The mortar still stays saturated even with a preslope and using pea gravel for weep holes if its used once or twice a day. It takes awhile for wet mortar to dry out if it doesnt have much room to breathe. I dont disagree about having gravel around weep holes when installing pan liners but the funny thing is water travels through the mud to get to the weep holes so even if there wasnt gravel around weep holes the water will still drain into the holes through the mud. As far as imbedding the wall board into the pan mud i agree its not a good idea unless youre using a waterproof board that wont wick or absorb water.
Pre-sloping pan is the way to go. Have the liner come up 6" up behind walls and run walls 1/4" up from pan floor after it's sloped for tile. Oatey has a pre-lope kit you can use. Be smart and don't drive nails or screws in your curb, it's the #1 reason for pan failures. I'm not a fan of caulk on the corners it doesn't look matched with the grout. Use a modified grout to grout the tile and use a sealer as well. I like durock because of the rigidity. I've seen Schluter showers have wall tiles crack from lack of the rigidity in the underlayment. Oatey has a plastic diffuser for the weep underneath for the pre-slope. To bond over onto the pan liner on the curb you can use Phenoseal with Durock. I will clamp it together and let it set, then regard 2 coats and tile. If you have tile grout issues they should immediately be addressed.
I've seen your video on building a shower pan. However, I am currently building a curbless shower pan on a concrete slab so it's a little different. I'm worried that I was advised wrong. We had to adjust some plumbing so we had a huge hole in the slab. We just recently filled it in with concrete and also chiseled the surrounding slab down at an angle of course. The guy helping me assured me that it was okay to cover the locking ring with the concrete which I believe means the weep holes are now covered with concrete. His next steps were going to be to put thin-set down, then schluter paper, and then I'm assuming tile on top of that. According to the diagram on this video at the 30 second mark, we should have left that locking ring and weep holes exposed. And we should be using a shower liner, then the thin set. 1) do I absolutely need to re-expose the locking ring/weep holes? 2) Do I need to use a shower liner like you use on top of the concrete or will the thin-set and shluter paper work? 3) Do you know of any good videos that show exactly how you think it should be done?
So when using the mortar and liner method, epoxy grout should not be used? I was considering it to improve the waterproof and not have to deal with moldy grout lines and sealants! What are your thoughts on epoxy grout?
I have a question that kinda related, yet off topic. My wife & I after 40 years, want to bring the washer & dryer upstairs onto the main floor. They will be placed on an outside wall. While the shut-off for washing machines is never turned off during vacation (And Should) I change the braided hoses every 5 years as I tag then with the install date plus date 5 years out. These are #1 in serious leaks. My question has to do with a copper drain pan under the washer in case of an internal part failure! The water level sensor is measuring the change in atmospheric pressure as water fills pushing against it. This could fail. I am a belt & suspenders guy who has seen everything fail to some degree on vehicles. I have been a service tech since early 70’s and became an ASE Master in 78. This is book smarts, knowing how to read a question but the 8 test include questions that only someone who has done it many times can answer correctly! Maybe I am getting ahead of myself, perhaps you did a video on this subject. I can’t find the “Search” feature on any channel with the app. Matter of fact, being retired I went 11 years with a phone. Just curious on your thoughts for saving hardwood floors and how best practices says it should be drained as I like to do things once and done. I won’t alway be here to be the fixer! Thanks! Enjoy what I see. DK, retired.
Thanks for sharing this . I thought I was crazy wondering where the water around the drain liner retainer was supposed to go lol . Sticking with tried and true here except for I use go-board (high dense foam with fiber infused coating on surface) for the bottom wall board . I still however leave a gap between the wall board and pan floor .
What can I do with the grout that has cracked in the corners. Just like your video and I have drain flies coming out of there. How do I get rid of those if I have moisture under there?
Our upstairs shower leaked through into our downstairs ceiling. We had a new contractor come out to fix the issue. He completely redid the shower pan but it leaked again. We had both him and the plumber come look at it and they determined too much water was leaking into the shower pan and it spilled over the top. They said the fix was to seal the grout. In this process we opened up the drywall on the other side of the shower. While cleaning the shower floor to prepare for sealing the grout I noticed there was water in the liner two days later after not turning on the water at all there is still water in the liner. Is that normal?
And with Redguard, almost NOONE is installing it according to directions. And even a couple videos out there wondering why it will just peel right off. They just seem to skip over the "lightweight concrete" portion of the instructions when they don't KNOW what lightweight concrete even means. HINT: Cementitious backers and dry-packed mortars DO fall into this category.
you right about pre slope and at same time your liner does not go high enough over the wall. . . . so +1 for slope and -1 for installing liner on top of it,
We don't use gravel in conventional pan liners. It is sand and cement and that's it. At least for the ones who actually know what they are doing and how a conventional pan actually works.
MY thought is run lift by rules rubber sealer set concrete board seal it ground to 3 inches with concrete board sealer 3 inches out do to shower bench even thou rubber sealer extra sealer shouldnt hurt
Hey there! I am building a shower pan in the way you've detailed for tiling; however instead of tiles, i am planning on using microcement. for the rest of the walls of the shower (according to the microcement tips ive gotten) is to use red gard on the cement board prior to the microcement and then a sealer. My question is, if I am using a liner on the on the shower pan, are you saying (from the video above) that I should avoid using red gard on top of the 2nd layer of the mud mix (for me, prior to put a thin layer of microcement instead of tile) Thank you!
Stop blaming the contractors, it's the product manufacturers that are causing so many issues. They're trying so hard to reinvent the wheel, that they don't take into consideration the basics. I'm getting ready to tile a master bathroom right now. The homeowner paid big money for a Kohler linear shower drain system. I don't know if any of you have used this system yet, but as a 25 year tilesetter, I know, without question, this system will fail. No weep holes, no pre slope, nowhere for the water to go, other than directly into the drain. Any water that seeps through the grout will just sit on the waterproofing, eventually leading to moisture problems. Terrible design, but there's nothing I can do, other than tell the homeowner I won't do the job.
Because it is using an outdated rubber liner method. This video became outdated tech as foam pans & sheet & liquid membranes replaced everything mentioned here.
Hydroban (2 generous coats) the walls/preslope using Laticrete fiber tape in corners and seams making it one, contiguous, waterproof unit. Boom, no worries...ever.
I've watched your shower pan video. Lot's of good tips and some good technique. The end result was passable, however, not great. Easy to see high spots around the perimeter. I've also watched and inadvertently re-watched your "How To Install Large Format Tile" video, and it was amateurish. I was ready to flame you in the comment section (only after seeing the title of this video) but discovered I'd already left much the same remarks when I'd originally watched it 5 years ago, although much more politely than I had intended the second time. Sounds like I have a beef. I do. Clearly you're a handy guy. You also do your research. Both good qualities. It's easy to see, however, that tiling is not your everyday gig. Mine is. I'm one of the pros you call out in the title of this video. Maybe you've dedicated you're entire career since making the two aforementioned videos to nothing but tile installation. That still only gives you 4 additional years of experience between those two and this one. Some contractors MIGHT start letting their apprentices do small jobs on their own after 4-5 years of grouting, mixing mud, making cuts, and doing all the other grunt work. Most apprentices think they know the entire trade within 2-3 months. My man, you are in NO POSITION to infer that MOST PROS don't know what they're doing. That's my beef. Sure, most guys are going to point out what they do differently, what they think is the "right" way. Tile guys are notorious for picking apart someone else's work. The only group of tile setters I know who all do it the same way are the dozens who learned the trade from my uncle, or learned it from other guys who learned it from my uncle. Love working with those guys. Later joined the union only to find out that everybody does it differently. Don't really love that. However, unless the guy is an absolute bonehead, my belief is if the guy is a journeyman, it's his job to know what the hell he's doing and I'm not going to waste my time telling him how I would do it. Just like when I was in the army and sat through countless refresher courses on basic soldiering, each time learning a new way to put on a gas mask, apply a field dressing, stop a sucking chest wound. None, incidentally, as laid out in the freaking handbook. All effective, though. MOST PROS know what they're doing. Implying otherwise only emboldens clueless DIYers to dismiss our years of experience and wreck their own bathrooms. Maybe you're just in this for the clicks. RU-vid is filled with experts constantly proving the old adage is true; Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.
You should not be using silicone to bond the rubber pan to the drain. You’re doing that wrong, you should be using NobeSealant 150 that is compatible with your pan linear. Silicone is $10 the right caulking product is like $30 or more. You should be getting this at a tile supply house. Real tile guys don’t buy stuff from homedepot.
can someone help me understand at 1:50 there is an outlet on the wall. I thought outlets weren't allowed within 3 feet including on the opposite wall of a shower enclosure.
Rubber and sand mix pan being sure to use gravel around drain. Hardybacker or durarock with redguard membrane waterproofing. Install your sil before tile and you will never have an issue. Never.
Wow, misguided and misinformed. With any luck this is your shower and not a customer. Oatey did so many things incorrectly in their video and all you did was parrot that. Just because they manufacturer a liner doesn't mean they know how to build a shower, because they definitely do NOT do it right. Your contradictory statements don't help either, on one hand you are saying that your mortar would somewhat dry out through the weep holes but on the other hand you say a liquid topical membrane would trap water between the tile and membrane....dude, you cannot have it both ways. Then your reference Your Shower Pan video which clearly shows you putting your mortar bed against your backer board, while at the same time saying that there should be no contact. You also state that water would be able to filter through your mortar bed but not through the weep holes 😂 Make up your mind. Also adding a bunch of rocks around the neck of your drain would be a weak spot, rocks would allow for movement whereas mortar would not. Then you stayed that water could wake up your wallboard but yet you advocate for a monolithic cement curb.... you are aware that that wicking would also transfer up and around your curb to your outside floor, even though you kind of saved yourself by again advocating for the wallboard not to touch the pan... but you cannot NOT puncture the pan material with wallboard unless you marry your pan in your curb materia thereby allowing wicking action to occur. I know you mean well by posting these videos but you are not allowing for free-thinking, even advocating that the R&D the customer must Trust ! How does that trump real life experience ?? As a fellow veteran you must know that not everything that is written in a book actually happens in the field, ojt is real ! And I understand that following every little detail what manufacturers recommend will surely get you more likes and more subscribers, that is a nature of the beast with most ppl... they like to see things done by the book, then you end up being a book Soldier and give out repeated mis-information. Given the hundreds of showers that I have demoed throughout my years, I can guarantee this will be a failure in about 8-10 years or less. My extensive library of my videos will attest to that because of the methods you employ. But you do you 💪✌👍
To totally discount instructions or R&D isn’t helpful to someone without any experience. Doing things “by the book” is by far your best chance at getting it right if you lack experience. I have no doubt that you are good at what you do, but you have a ton of experience and muscle memory happening in the background that a beginner does not. I know I can’t convince you that the methods I (or the instructions) used are right, but I will respond to a couple of the things you mentioned. Regarding your comments about some contradictions… I did say sealing the pan with a membrane will trap water. While yes, there are weepholes, they are not the only thing working to remove the water. Evaporation is happening as well. There are several things working simultaneously that are dependent on each other. I 100% support free thinking, but only when there is experience and talent to back it up. My videos are for beginners. The military handbooks you mentioned are not always the best way of doing things for someone that has years of experience. Seal teams are known to deviate from the handbook and are extremely talented, but I would not want to see a unit full of E1s trying to do what they do. For someone learning, by the book is easily your best chance to get it right. For someone as skilled as you, maybe not. That said, I have nothing but respect for you.
@@SgtDonovan understood. And I like your analogy about the E1 thing. But I will say this, when I was in it was right after Vietnam and some of my E5 and E6 I had a lot more respect for then most of the officers because as you said experience it's always much better. Thanks for your response
Let’s keep it peaceful guys, there’s many ways to skin a cat. I did a complete shower based on Bob’s method 3 years ago (thank you by the way) after watching multiple videos of his I was encouraged enough to tackle it by myself without any experience whatsoever. I’m in any implying that Sgt. Donovan methods are better or worse, I’m not the expert here, but to if you follow some either way you are bound to be safe imo. Hell my dad build a shower that I know it’s not built anything like it should be and it’s still going strong without failure, not leaking over a raised foundation. I will subscribe your Chanel Sargent Donovan in support, you never know what an apprentice like me can learn. Best wishes for you two gentlemen, thank you for your services to this country.
That is why you stop doing these old systems antiquated pvc, copper, etc liner and do membranes. The membranes collect the water only up to the grout depth of the tile and will not absorb down and collect. Frankly liner pans was a stupid ass system and I am glad to see tile setters transitioning on mass to the membranes with integrated flange drains.
I just don’t understand reasoning just saying the other people are wrong doesn’t make sense. I’ve torn out so many showers yet not understanding your logic to what they’ve always pushed
If you make a shower pan with redguard instead of panliner. Your backerboard goes all the way down. I'm old school where redguard showerpan better then panliner. Cause you will not have kick outs in corners. But only the real shower builders know this. So run backer all way down do a preslope Redguard your preslope and use redguard band on any change of plains. Basically your building a panliner but with redguard. Then you mud your shower pan again. Eylander tile youtuber as a good video on it. Cali style build. Cali style best way . Texas and Florida suck in shower builds. They use no preslope very bad. But panliner and redguard panliner both work. But with a redguard panliner you have no kick out. But now I just use laticrete membrane and kerdi. Or any membrane. Cause you do one slope no preslope. Time is money.
STOP - no one should be building a shower with a rubber liner anymore. OUTDATED product. GREAT VIDEO - just has a misleading title. Do another video with current products like foam boards & sheet / liquid membrane barriers.. PLEASE update your title so people stop learning outdated methods with outdated products. Current floor pan method is ... Slope Base - ThinSet - FLoFX drain - Waterproof Sheet - Seam Tape - Liquid Flash membrane - thinset tile - maybe epoxy grout - and silicone between wall & floor tile please CALL THIS VIDEO something like - "Why Rubber Liner Shower Pans Fail"
You make decent videos but you don't know it all so stop saying people do things wrong because we all make mistakes. Twenty years isn't forever in the construction industry.
I replaced over 200 showers and I can tell you that YOU ARE 100% RIGHT!!!. One very important thing is to install shower floor tile First and Grout it then shower curb before installing wall tiles. A lot of guy just don't have enough experience or just don't care about their work. I can tell that YOU are very detail orientated. Great Video!! Everyone should watch your video first before making any RU-vid video about showers.
What can I do with the grout that has cracked in the corners. Just like your video and I have drain flies coming out of there. How do I get rid of those if I have moisture under there?
Mushroom flies! It is possible to repair a situation like yours, by knocking out all the tiles at the failure points, and re tiling again using plenty of thin-set mortar. I did such a repair and it's been 12 years.
Thank you! I've been in the tile industry for 22yrs now and dealing with other installers/GC about these new mothods are not the way to do tile installs. thanks for shining the light on this topic!!!
Gravel is no go for weep- lime builds up - use 1/8” rubber spacers - does not promote lime growth. Also not grout caulk, but 100% silicone. Pre sealing shower pan tile and sealing again 3 das after grouting with drytreat by StainProof will result in amazing results and a sealed shower that doesn’t need sealing every year. 🤙
Yep, exactly this. Contractors are stuborn folks. Lined pans should have been fazed out permanently years ago. The bonded drain and membrane or cloth membranes are soooo much better. When in use the pans dry in about 15 minutes. Even if there is a leak, MOST of the water is gone within minutes so who cares. Its just sooooo much better.
THANK YOU for showing the correct layering in the beginning! I've watched SO MANY videos and some contradict each other. It's nice to see someone using CODE materials! And yes, I realize codes change, but not to the extent I'm seeing the contradictions in the videos I've seen. So, my dilemma is that we have a concrete floor (basement bathroom) and my husband already hung the concrete backer board before I put my pre-slope and liner down. Will it be an issue if I put the liner OVER the backer board by a couple inches and use my tile mortar to compensate for the surface level difference? FYI... I used seam tape to seal the seams already too... before I began watching any of the videos.
Sorry for the late response. It may be too late, but I wouldn’t recommend putting the liner over the backer board. This will invite opportunities for moisture to get behind the liner and into your wall. There is no way to guarantee a watertight seal with the liner on top of the backer board. Thinset and paintable waterproofing will have adhesion issues if used on the liner itself. Other than removing the bottom row of backer board to start over, you could cut and remove a 12 inch strip of backer board, install the liner and reattach the strips. This way you only have a small section to tape/waterproof.
Keep the grout and any natural stone tile sealed you'll probably be fine. Look at it this way, y'all saved so much money in labor that if need be you can re do the shower again later down the road if you have to. 😊
Nice video. Anchoring the cement board into the mud supports it along the bottom. Your cement board screws are supposed to be 2-3 inches above the curb height. Some installers place screws too low .
in one of the slides it mentioned not to use tar paper. in one of your videos you used tar paper, can you clear up whether it's ok to use tar paper on the sub floor before any mortar goes down or not. thanks
@@KraZieKC you can use tar paper between the subfloor and mortar. The slide is referencing the liner. You don’t want the liner to contact the tar paper directly.
So if your using sealer to keep the grout from soaking up water hows the water going to evaporate if it gets absorbed from the mud bed...kinda the same concept of a topical....
Water vapor can pass through sealer. The sealer repels the denser liquid water. We tested 60 mil thick HDPE and 1/1,000th of a gram of water passed through it every two days. It was 100 % humidity inside and 50 % humidity outside the water vessel.
Thanks Sgt, doing my second shower pan today for my new job. The one my plumber and I did the first time was a trainwreck. 8:26 oh my god grout caulk what a fantastic product thank you for showing that
The garage videos do indeed prove that you can modify the accepted system of install as you can not argue with real world results. Its just like drinking a few beers on the way home from work many contractors have been doing this successfully for years so obviously there is nothing wrong with drinking and driving just so you limit it to 4-5 beers..........JK
Even if you waterproof your entire surface before tiles go in, it would be easier for evaporation to occur would it not? evaporation would only take place from the grout and the cement used and not have to evaporate through an entire mud bed. Also showers are used daily and I hardly doubt any water would get a chance to evaporate from an entire mud bed vs just thinset and grout. Tiling over an entirely waterproofed shower is the same as tiling over schluter, no water will ever get further than your waterproofing. Just my 2c
The problem with waterproofing the top of the post-slope is this, unless you're leaving room for the water to get down before it gets to the drain, (around the drain.) Because if you waterproof the 3/8 height that the drain sticks up after the post-slope, you just created a pool in the water will build up in there and sit until it has enough to get over the lip just like the bottom piece of the drain works but up top. So now you've created a pool. Stop waterproofing the top of post slopes please thank you have a good day
@@BonBon770 Bon, I've already red guarded my entire post-slope bed but left a half inch of mortar bare around drain for any extra water to seep down through the weep holes (I didn't use any gravel but if the point of mortar is to get wet and have water seep through then blocking weep holes is impossible). Will this work fine? I figured if I red gaurded the entire floor the water wouldn't have anywhere to go because it's covering the weep holes.
@@kendallritenow1309 if I was to waterproof the post slope which I do not because I use plastic weep hole protectors, efflorescence and calcium and iron and chemicals will cause we pause the clog over time that's why they say to use gravel like Riverrock smaller one, I used to and then I switched to the plastic weep hole protectors you can buy them online for like 10 bucks and 410 bucks it keeps the mud off of the weep holes I tried to explain this to people all the time but they don't really get it. If you waterproof all the way up beside of the drain when your tiling around the drain house water going to get up and over that quarter to three eighths of an inch? It doesn't it's it's in there so thank you very much for letting the weep holes work
@@kendallritenow1309 and for your information, I recently texted Sal de blasi and asked him how is the water supposed to get over the 3/ 8 tall linear drain, with a sealed system like Schluter. His response was the water will evaporate, and I just told him thank you but the truth is is that there will be sitting water in there and if you have natural stone on your shower pan it's going to discolor it even if you have regular tile all of the water will not get out of there with a traditional in and out system with a post-slope a pre-slope everything done correctly to a tea, there is less water held, when I mean held, I mean pulling or standing water, there will be no pooling or standing water with a traditional in and out mud system protecting the weep holes everything I just said. That is not true with a sealed system, there is no way water the residual water will jump over that height of the 3/ eight of the linear drain.
In a system like Kerdi, there is no 3/8” lip at the linear drain. The pan is flush with the rim of the linear drain and the waterproof membrane covers the top edge.
I can't thank you enough for this video, as I am re-building my shower because of how many mistakes I made. Do you have a good reference videos for "pre-sloping" a shower pan liner? I have concrete and I did not pre-slop my pan, but I used a perfect slope template the first go around. I want to do it perfect this time around and any help would be appreciated!
EVERY CONTRACTOR, criticizes other contractor work. I dont care if that contractor did everything properly a contractor will come in and say "WHO DID THAT"😂 thats just the nature of the business same thing with mechanics
So, it's always recommended we install gravel around the drain for any moisture that's worked it's way down into the mortar bed. How is it the water can flow by gravity through the entire mortar bed but somehow won't make it into the drain if mortar surrounds the weep holes?
If there's a pre slope done it still takes time for the water to flow through the mud bed towards the drain. Water travels through the pebbles easier than through the mud bed so the gravel eases access to the weep holes and helps to prevent excess water accumulating in the area around the drain (where all excess water is directed in a properly installed pan).
@@hgsmasterclass3452 - I saw a video where a guy used silicone to prevent water from getting down the drain so it’s good to see someone doing the job right 👍
Thanks for this video. It makes complete sense. Before doing the annual grout / tile re-seal, how long do you generally need to let a shower floor air out? This one is made of river stones (installed over a traditional mortar bed with liner pan & pre-slope). Thanks!
If you have never sealed your shower and now plan to, I'd say don't run water in it for about 7 days then seal it. But I'm just a random guy so whatever.
I've never built a shower and planning to do mine so pardon my ignorance. Here's a question that I have not seen addressed: Why tile a shower pan? I cannot wrap my brain around it. I've been studying how folks build showers and I nearly fell off the floor when I learned that grout & thinset are porous materials and it's an accepted fact of life that water will seep below the tiled floor. I'm hoping that someone can please explain why, in the 21st century, they'd build a shower floor of porous materials guaranteed to NOT be watertight. I see cans of grout sealer at the hardware store. Does it not work? Better yet why not eliminate tile and seal your mortar floor with a non-porous coating that won't pass moisture? Am I missing something or should the pre-sloped rubber liner weep-hole scheme have gone extinct a century ago? Thanks in advance for your insight.
I think the short answer is about tile expanding and contracting... If you look at Sgt. Donovan's video again, (and look at the Oatey instructions on using a vinyl pan liner (www.oatey.com/products/oatey-pvc-shower-pan-liner-1982292245) it clearly shows that the vinyl pan liner provides a fully waterproof (and time-tested) way to build the appropriate foundation to lay your tile on. Tile and whatever you adhere it to (usually mortar) is going to expand and contract. Currently there is no cost-effective material that allows you to provide a completely waterproof shower -- if you want a custom tile job. If you want a pre-built moulded shower pan, you can do that, but those come in set sizes and, if you are installing a shower in a non-standard sized space, that won't work. They are also overpriced. A mortar shower pan is fully customizable and reasonably priced and, when done correctly, as waterproof as any pre-moulded thing on the market. Some of those fail too. Hopefully my rambling note makes some sense, but if you watch a few more videos from Sgt. Donovan (ru-vid.com), Sal DiBlasi (ru-vid.comvideos), Tile Coach (www.tilecoach.com/) you will definitely get more answers to all your questions. These guys are all great (even if they don't always agree) they are true masters of the art.
Just wondering why not put the pan liner on the bottom or seal it with red guard before you put the concrete on wood. Concrete will eat up the wood if it's laying on bare wood. Why does it anybody do something like that and what's the pros and cons
