How To Lose The Game of Thrones (Show Version Only) 

Really wish I didn’t ask the “You served him well when serving was safe” comment. FYI, this was one of my earliest videos that was doing fine then got copyright restricted. I made edits so that it can be visible. But if you notice the difference in audio or even my overall clarity, it’s because when I made this I was a total beginner. I still am, but I was like an extra total beginner when I made this. Anyway thanks for checking it out 🤟🏼

"You served him well, when serving was safe" is Ned talkin about Jaime when he served Aerys as the king guard. We know later that Aerys went mad and wanted to kill everyone in Kinglanding. But when Ned came to the capital, all he knew is Jamie, a king guard with an oath to protect the king, killed his king, which wasn't honor in Ned's book. Ned also thought Jaime killed the king is for his own safety because the rebellion was at the doorstep.

Yes, Ned was honorable. He was also not humble about it! Every one of the power players reached out to him to form an alliance and he shamed them down and he became an island by himself; vulnerable alone with no allies when he needed them most.

Ned was deeply traumatized by the violent death of the Princes children when he and Robert took the throne. From that point on Ned is strongly motivated by protecting children. He protects Jon, he doesn’t want assassins sent after Danny, and one of his first lines to Kat in the show is “where are the children?” He knew Robert would kill Cerceis illegitimate children so he was giving her a chance to take the kids and run, for the sake of saving the kids who were not at fault for their mother’s behavior.

What Ned meant by that was Jaime is only loyal when it’s safe for him. When It was safe to serve the mad king he served him well. But when his father sacked the city & the war was lost he turn on his king to save his own ass is what Ned thinks. Especially since he caught him sitting the iron throne after Arey’s death like he was proud of what he did. Ned respects Ser Barristan cause he fought for the Targaryens until he couldn’t he didn’t betray his vows. Ned was just greeting them all in his way & pointing out things we remembered. It wasn’t anything deep & after the incident with the wolves he wasn’t in the mood. He says this much at the end with “Forgive me my lords it’s been a long ride” he was just irritated & wanted them to know how he felt.

I think the part where Ned is watching Arya, he's thinking about Lyanna and how Arya is just like her

I'm afraid you're not looking at honor in its entirety. One of the sub-themes that's so subtle that it takes multiple books to play out is the contrast between Ned Stark's honor and Tywin Lannister's pragmatism. While it is brutally efficient to eliminate your enemies under false pretenses and broken promises, (Red Wedding), it is honor that will sustain your legacy in the long run. The moment both men's philosophies were tested was what happens to their families the moment both patriarchs died. Once Tywin Lannister died, everyone around the Lannisters started jockeying to either replace or overthrow them. (Tyrells and Martells) On the other hand, multiple books after Eddard's death, there are multiple conspiracies in the North to overthrow the Boltons and restore a Stark to power. (The Mountain Clans, the Manderlys, the Mormonts, Stannis) That is loyalty that Tywin Lannister can only dream of. That's the value of honor.

The ptsd thing is showing that Ned fears and is aware of the threat of the coming conflict with the Lannisters as he is not naive about the horrors of war but doubly it portrays his desire to keep Arya away from a life of violence and his inner conflict between seeing his daughter happy and saving her from the horrors of such violence that her desires will expose her too.

Jamie betrayed his oath and killed the king, baristan kept his oath even though it was the wrong side. I think that makes sense from Ned’s perspective. Picell convinced the king to open the gates to Tywin, I.e. betrayal. Baelish is obviously family beef, and Varys is a fear of the unknown, he doesn’t trust him wich I mean why would you? He’s likeable later but early is a little scary. Idk I thought it made sense

A lot of show only fans don't know that in the books Ned did not want to go to Kingslanding. It was Cat and the maester that manipulated him into going. In the books, that chapter is where I started disliking Cat, and as the chapters advance that feeling was reinforced. She was the main catalyst for starting the war, her meddling got Ned killed, he told her to return to Winterfell and prepare the banners, he told her to keep Theon close and he told her that they weren't ready for war yet. Then she left KL and proceeded to arrest Tyrion and instead of returning directly to Winterfell, she stayed away. I do agree that Ned isn't as honorable as he tries to make out. I feel there is a lot more going on around the birth of Jon Snow and the way Robert took the throne than we know yet. He definitely dropped the ball by assuming the worst of Jamie and for some reason, he never seems to express any animosity towards Rhaegar, which is weird if the cover story about Lyanna is true. Back in the day, when she was supposedly kidnapped, he should have come clean with Robert and told him that his sister just wasn't into him. I think Ned knew the truth about the supposed abduction and said nothing to his supposed best friend.

Loyality isn't attached to honor. In the TV show he saw Robert hit Cersy. That probably scared him for a second. Not because he was afraid of Robert but I bet that made him think of his sister and the fate she might have had. That fear is real.

Honor - the quality of knowing and doing what is morally right Yes Honor is doing what is good. If good loses in the end, yet you live by a code of honor, then you died with honor of which there is no better death.

It was honor that got Ned killed because he knew that if he told Robert about Cersei and the 3 kids not being his, Robert would have had them all killed. Ned’s honor also stayed Robert’s hands either way Dany. Ned’s honor won’t pass a death sentence on women and children. Simple. So Ned told Cersei to bounce and head to Casterly Rock because he wanted to tell Robert while also sparing her and her 3 children. Ned wanted his cake and to eat it too, but it got him killed in the end. Had he just told Robert, he would have lived, but lived with the guilt of his actions getting Cersei and her three children put to death.

Ned has a consistent code of honour that only gets broken for family and he considers robert a brother. He loves robert but he does not trust him after king's landing. The difference between ned's code and southern codes is that he will not cross the line of killing children. This code gets ned killed because he can't trust robert on the issue after gregor killed the targaryen children and robert did nothing. That's why the truth about lyanna was kept secret along with her child. That's also why ned goes so hard with gregor and tywin as soon as he has reason. He has sworn no oaths to them and despises their willingness to kill children. He did swear an oath to robert and the iron throne so he never went against robert who was his king. Selmy served loyally and would have fought to the death to fulfill his oath. He survived the war not for switching sides or hiding but for being wounded in honourable combat while defending his prince. Jaime switched sides and stabbed an old man who was not suitable for combat in the back. The lannisters and their bannerman murdered women, children, and an elderly man that day in some cowardly ways while barriston selmy fought other armed knights and soldiers. Tywin also stayed out of the war until the outcone was determined which is cowardly and betraying his oath so the blood shed by lannisters in the war was mostly civilians in kings landing and he only got in by lying about his intentions. When robert comes back wounded ned simply can't hurt a man he loves as a brother on his deathbed. The things we do for love. There are actually a bunch of parallels between jaime and ned. Ned's public dishonor of having a bastard son is actually him protecting an innocent child and jaime's big dishonor was him actually protecting innocent lives on an even bigger scale.

I understand honor but his inflexibility actually borders on stupidity at worst and extreme naivety at best, he is used to the north where people take you at face value and you expect them to be the same. It was naivety that got him killed, remember the riddle of power, Ned thought Robert being king meant he was all powerful, he failed to realize that the factions in the kingdom were also powerful and simply because you were the hand or you were the king or had justice and the law in your corner, did not mean implicit power it was very much a case of naivety.

The PTSD moment you refer to with Arya was him being reminded of his sister who also took up fighting and I think it worried him for multiple reasons

It makes sense when you take into consideration Ned’s true priority - protect the children. The moment a child becomes threatened he wavers, like warning Cercei, not telling Robert about her children, trying to quit over Dany and the baby, sending word to Stannis about being the heir even tho living heirs were in kings landing at the time in the form of bastards. He knew Cercei would kill them all, so he put Stannis up for the throne. He even took the fall saying he had a bastard son for years even tho it was a stain on his honour because he knew in his heart Robert would have Jon killed. Robert was delusional about Lyanna and having a living breathing reminder that she just wasn’t into him? Let alone a Targaryen?? He was already unhinged enough to start a war over a construct of a woman that never existed, I mean he didn’t even know she would want to be buried with her kin at winterfell 🤷‍♀️ I love Ned, but he let his heart lead his head and if he had just stayed out of Robert’s nonsense then he would have probably been facing the white walkers with all his kids still alive. The whole thing is just agonising and tragic.

Bro telling Cersei was so fkn stupid of him

The PTSD Ned gets watching Arya sparring is the realization that his children will soon be called to fight in war as he did.

Jaime served the mad king when it was easy. But when he was being used as a pseudo prisoner in the books as tywin was on bad terms with aerys at that time and that's when he decided to do the "right" thing. When his idea of the Kings guard was shaken. He doesn't blame barristan because barristan served the king honorably(their personalities and values are similar even though they were on opposing sides) and didn't kill the king he swore to serve like Jaime or goad the king into burning traitors like varys. Ned with Arya is him realizing what he's signed his daughter up for as he has known war, killing, and death imo. Ned doesn't tell Robert because Ned doesn't have evidence and he has seen Robert side with cersei and Joffrey against his daughters so he doesn't know how it would play out. One of neds ideas about honor is he doesn't harm women or children. Robert would have killed cersei Joffrey tommen and Myrcella in neds mind because Robert was Gucci with the mountain killing ashara daynes kids during the sack on Kings landing

Ned’s death was one of the most f*cked up moments in TV history omg

I think for Ned "honour" means not compromising his own conscience. Not doing anything that would keep him up at night. He who passes the sentence should swing the sword, and if you can't look a condemned man in the eye then maybe he doesn't deserve it. He quits as Hand because Robert wanted to kill a girl and her baby. He warns Cersei because Robert would have all 3 of her children killed. Sure he's being a little disloyal to Robert in not telling him, but murdering kids is a step too far for him to accept. I think this is why he's short with the Small Council even though many stayed loyal to Aerys, when he is cordial with Ser Barristan even though he did the same thing. Soldier to soldier Ned respects him Ser Barristan maintains his position through loyalty but those on the Council maintain it through plots and schemes. They don't have a conscience or at least don't let it get in the way. He takes an immediate dislike to them because they play by zero rules. As Kingsguard Ser Barristan follows very strict rules. Ned has a code, he respects others who have a code, even if on an opposing side, but the game of thrones has no code, cheating is expected.

Regrading Ned's inconsistencies, you have to look at from Ned's perspective and what he values: - Jaime is not honorable because he broke his oath to protect the king - Pycelle is not honorable because he broke his oath to the king and city and opened the gates for Tywin - Littlefinger is not honorable for too many reasons to name - Varys ... Ned only knows him through rumors and hearsay and the perception of Varys' intentions, which seem dishonorable - Barristan upheld his oath by fighting for Rhaegar and was honorable Ned is *perfectly* consistent with them. The inconsistency is around Robert. It seems that Ned knows who Robert is, but he justifies it to himself because 1) Robert is his friend; 2) the Mad King was unjustified in killing Rickard and Brandon and deserved to be overthrown; 3) Robert's casus belli *was* justified at the time of the rebellion, regardless of how pure his intentions may have been and what Ned later found out about Lyanna; 4) Ned doesn't want another war and what's done is done and supporting Robert is what is best for the realm and is the easiest path.

It's neither his honor nor a soft spot for Targaryens that makes Ned oppose killing Daenerys, it's the same thing that makes him warn Cersei. Ned utterly despises the killing of children, and he has some trauma around witnessing the bodies of the Targaryen children after they were murdered by Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch during the Sack of King's Landing, something Robert tacitly endorsed. So regardless of what's happened since then, Ned still believes Robert would be all for killing children, and he can't stand the thought of seeing that happen again, especially if it means potentially putting Jon in that same danger. So at every step he tries to stop any potential future instances of Robert killing any more children, whether they be Targaryens or his own "heirs". Though it is also quite likely he wouldn't actually do the latter, while he'd certainly kill both Lannister siblings, he doesn't actually like killing children either, and he's not cruel or violent enough to kill Joffrey, Myrcella, or Tommen. But Ned can't see that, because he's never going to be able to un-see what he witnessed at the hands of Tywin, or Robert turning a blind eye to it, calling the children "dragonspawn". It's that trauma that motivates him to act the way he does, and it's ultimately what seals his fate. Really what he should've done is flee to Dragonstone with both his daughters the moment Robert died, potentially spiriting away Robert's bastards with him if he fears Cersei killing them. The reason why Dragonstone is the ideal destination is that Ned is hard committed in the corner of supporting Stannis the Mannis as the rightful king, and while the two aren't exactly friendly, Stannis would absolutely welcome Ned's support and immediately offer him shelter or a ship to White Harbor, potentially in exchange for Ned's allegiance in the effort to dethrone Joffrey, and maybe betrothing Robb or Bran to Shireen, either of which are deals I think Ned would absolutely make.

I was asking myself the same thing. How does honor work in Ned’s mind and how does George R Martin look at honor in Westeros? Honestly, there were countless mistakes that the characters Robert and Ned made. Robert should’ve never brought Ned down south and made him Hand of the King. I understand the fact that no one was more trusted than Ned was, but that shows how oblivious Robert was as King. Ned had too much honor and too much compassion. He already knows Lannister's reputation from the stories he was told and what he heard about Tywin Lannister. He even saw firsthand, not once but twice, how Tywin was received in the Kingdom, but he would never amount to that of cunning and more ruthless calculation. Wolves in human skin surrounded him.

I think Ned WAS gonna tell Robert, just waiting for a good moment and how to say it because he knew it was gonna hurt/upset him. but when Robert was on his death bed he didnt want to tell him because he didnt wanna spoil his last moments.

9:20 bariston was an honorable servant he was in no place to betray the king and the fact that Jamie someone who took the same vow chose to betray his king(othbreaker) when Roberts army was marching down kings landing

Ned doesn’t respect Jaime because Jaime a king slayer. Jaime broke his oath. Ned respects Ser Barristan, because Barristan never broke his oath to King Aerys. Barristan is loyal to Robert because Robert treated him with respect and honor when wounded in battle and provided Barristan with a maester to tend to his wounds. It’s important to understand these things if you’re going to make videos. New fans of the show may be misled.

Great video I really enjoyed this! However, I always took “You served him well, when serving was safe” to be directed towards Jaime’s service of the Mad King through all of his madness until the king’s madness was turned onto Jaime’s family. Jaime served the Mad King when he had Ned’s father and brother killed, but turns against the king when he orders Jaime bring him his own father’s head. On top of this, even though Ned was fighting to usurp the king in the rebellion, he finds the traitors from the opposing side to be distasteful because Jaime’s treachery itself is dishonorable, regardless of which side he ended the war on.

This was great to watch thank you!!

i think ned was realizing how similar arya was to lyanna which may have led to thoughts of the rebellion

I think Ned was less concerned by the threat of Daenerys because he knew he had the legit Targaryen heir in his back pocket. It also makes his changing of Robert's will more interesting than him simply trying to manoeuvre Stannis onto the throne.

The line that Ned gives Jamie *you served him well, when serving was safe" simple, Jamie protected the king while he was committing all his atrocious acts but when the tables turned and Tywin joined the rebellion, rather than continue to do his duty like Sir Bariston and risk death to keep his Oath, he chose instead to break his Oath and turn on his king. It's not the slaying of King Aers that Ned holds against Jamie, it's the fact that he broke his Oath to do it. Taking a Oath of fealty is something Ned respects and regards Highley which is why he forgave Sir Bariston and why he can't forgive Jamie. He'd never hate a soldier for doing his duty, even if their his enemy.

8:24 he’s talking about how when jami kills the king it is only once the war is basically over granted he did it to save lives

I never once questioned if Ned was a good guy. I've never read the books but I've spent a, lot of time learning about real world history. Ned is a honorable man and that is part of what makes him a good man. The scene where Ned executes the deserter from the wall says a lot about him. "The man who passes the sentence must swing the sword" that one line sums up what Ned believes in., The Old God's. To be a king (which is what the Starks have always been even if its not in name) you must back up your mouth and take responsibility for your actions. Which is what the old gods are all about, even if the path is brutal. The sceene where Ned executed the deserter is horrific to people who don't understand it. The first men agreed to worship the old God's to end a brutal war and fight back the white walkers. The Starks are one of the Few that have kept their word and out of all the families who still keep the old way, Ned is one of the few who believes that the white walkers are real. Which is why he doesn't judge the deserter and also why he both executes him and pities him. He understands that if to defeat the white walkers you have to stand your, ground and not give in to fear, too much is at stake, and that is why dispite his pity for the man, he executed him. His pity comes from the fact that he knows the guy isn't a warrior and never should have been asked to be one, coupled with the fact that the deserter is a good man, or he wouldn't have accepted the consequences of deserting the Nights watch. The honor of the north and their intimate relationship with the wall is the only thing that makes the wall get volunteers for the nights watch. The Starks, house Mormont both have volunteered. Everyone else are criminals who choose to serve rather than be expected or be dismembered. That sceene says all that in a few short moments between Ned and the deserter. Does Ned accepting this make him a bad man? Not in my eyes. If the white walkers won, the guy would die anyway. And had he tried to run, others would have done far worse to him and many would have used his desertion as a excuse to fuel there twisted desires (the Boltons being a fine example). What Ned did was a kindness in ore ways than one, because Westeros is a cruel place to live. The Deserter too was happy to be executed by a Stark or he wouldn't have accepted it, in his mind your better off being executed by them than anyone else, the won't torture you, they'll make it quick and as painless as possible.

I can never blame Sansa because Ned truly doesn't try to talk or connect with her. He betrothed her to a Prince that the enemy or on their side but never talked to her about it.

Ned’s problem with Jamie was that from his prospective Jamie only killed Aerys because they were on the loosing side. You served when serving was safe. He’s saying if you’re gonna serve that king you should die with him.

So the main issue regarding pycell and Jaime is the fact that both of them had a hand in the downfall of the Targaryen dynasty, when their oaths where to serve them. Barriston fought to the bitter end for house Targaryen, getting injured and getting captured in battle while fighting for house Targaryen. Jaime "served when it was safe" as in the moment victory has fled the side he was on he "turned coat", the case of the greyjoy rebellion it was one small portion of westoroes whose only defense was naval combat (one that stannis expertly defeated in the books) vs majority of westoroes. Pycell gave the mad king advice to let tywin into the city and sack the place. As we see later when he is at tyrions mercy he did this all in the name of house lannister instead of the house pycell was supposed to serve, admitting to not only killing aerys Targaryen but also letting the poison kill jon aryn and leaving him untreated.

Awesome video.

30:40 As you said earlier in the video, honor is basically not allowed if you're going to play. Ned's honorable, and is therefore refusing to play. He doesn't consider whether he's making people mad at him, or even loyalty, as much as he's prioritizing "don't get involved in their games." He's not thinking and planning with bad strategy; he's using no strategy at all. Ned wants to get out of King's Landing and out of the game alive, with his honor intact, without shirking his duty or betraying anyone. He doesn't understand that there's no realistic way to check all four boxes, that he's involved in the game whether he likes it or not.

First Neds relationship with robert and if he trusts him, then why he acts the way he does (including not telling about the letter) and in the end I'll go to Neds different judgements. So first the whole Robert thing. I think, Ned didn't know himself how to look at Robert and he tries to find out the whole season. He seems to always swing like a pendulum, at one site the old friend he loves and on the other site a king you don't know. They grew up together and fought together but that is ages ago. A long time that Robert spent at the court and despite Roberts antipathy for the Lennisters, he heavily depends on them. He needs Tywin, not only his money but also his military power. Ned is a good and loyal friend, but in the end he is far in the north and brings way less money and power to the table, not even speaking about political influence in kingslanding. Ned already saw that Robert didn't stand up for justice when Lady was sentenced to death, he even closed both eyes when the hound killed an innocent boy. Hard to say (for us as for Ned) if he just did this out of fear / to keep peace with the lannisters or if he really was just annoyed and didn't care. In such a situation - would you bring up accusations without any proof, coming from a mad widdow who hides at her castle? I don't see the advantage of doing something like that. When Ned ordered the mountain to be killed and ordered Tywin to the court, he wanted to show strengh - he had to. Him and his men (the hand of the king) were being attacked within the capital. I think at this point, he had no other choice but it was already to late. Neds different judgements for peoples role in the war aren't contradicting. Ned honors Ser Barristan because he followed his kingsguard oath. He doesn't honor Jamie a) because he broke his holy oath and b) watched the mad king commit so many crimes but just killed him at the moment it was safe for him, while his fathers troops eere already in the city. Of course ned didn't know about Aerys plans to burn down the city so in his eyes every aspect of it was unhonorable. Ned respects people who were loyal and true to their words, even if that meant they fought against him. It's this 'respect for your enemy bs'. Same with Tywin - he disgusted a) that Aerys expected him to come as a friend ally and b) that he tolerated/ordered the sacking of Kingslanding and the killing of children. He dislikes Varys because a) his service is bought b) he dislikes everything not straight forward so neither the spy stuff nor the careful and double tongued language and careful words are his thing (and maybe c) because he isn't a man in his eyes). Littlefinger endagered the honor of his now wife and questioned the engagement bonds she had with his brother; also his business isn't honorable (and Ned was close to always faithful to his wife which might not be the usual case with mighty lords) and Littlefinger is borroughing money to please the king, despite his job is literally to manage the finances of the crown. It's been a long time since I read the books so I stayed mostly in the series canon.

You asked what his point was about mentioning each small council member. It was the fact, imho, that they were all hypocrites in some way, shape or form. 🤷🏻‍♀️

So a small point out. Vis-a-vis the small council. Barristan has always held his honour, which Ned respects. He has served loyally and with honour to his vows, and he knows the Kings Guard is a lifetime commitment. Regardless of who occupies the throne. Which is why Ned respects and admires him. Jamie broke his vows which he has no honour in Neds eyes. He is also arrogant and cares little for regular people. Where as Ned always helped those under his rule, regardless of class. A great example of this is Hodor. Ned gave him a place in his household, food, shelter and was always kind to him. So you can see where Ned sees Jamie not only as a kingslayer and oathbreaker, but also as a nasty person who cares for little else other than himself (from Neds point of view) Pycelle is looked upon with distain because of his sneakery during the rebellion. Convincing the mad king to open the gates to Tywins forces knowing he planned to sack the city. Also because he chooses to side with whomever will win and not who is right. Baelish for obvious reasons Ned dislikes him. But also he is a brothel owner. Something Ned disapproved of and the fact he shows loyalty only when it suits him and allows him to profit. Even Ned looks upon Robert with distain, for resorting to assassination of a child in order to keep his claim to the throne. He also dislikes Robert for his Drinking and lust as well as for not being an effective ruler and for bankrupting the realm (and for Littlefinger to enable Robert to do that) Hope that helps clarify why Barristan is held in higer regards to others.

As a 'Northerner' of the US myself, I recognize Ned and his personality. His distaste for machinations, scheming and lickspittles is understandable. We also brook no bullshit and we'll tell you straight. Subterfuge isn't a virtue here. It is harsh and cold, if you didn't work together you died, historically. So, transfer this to mythical Westeros...Ned also isn't used to women playing the game, he's been raised to respect and protect- and in this he underestimates them and their agency. It's both about the Targ children. 'Men don't kill children' in his noble worldview. It's looked at as weak. Ned lives in the North, which is much more stable and you can have those kind of chivalrous rules. It's a huge cultural difference. It's also a handicap in the wider world. Ned couldn't say no to the King. You don't say no. Robert is a loose cannon. You tell Robert anything and he would ride to war. It's all he knows. That's why they've had peace, it isn't because Robert is a good king. It's because Robert is a monster when roused. His honor is Northern Honor, that is what he is beholden to. The problem is, Ned isn't in the North, is he. This is Ned's blindness. His actual weakness. This rigidity is what breaks him. *Ned was having a flashback watching his Arya in the South, every time he/his family has gone South or become involved in the South something terrible has happened. He knows the nest of vipers his little girls are in.

Honestly in my opinion the scene between Ned and Varys in the dungeons is the perfect encapsulation of Ned's flaws as a person. Varys rightfully criticizes Ned for being so foolish as to confront Cersei over how he knew the truth of her children. When Ned did that, he was effectively trying to make a power play (an honorable power play, but a power play nonetheless) by telling Cersei to leave King's Landing. But the thing about power plays is that you need to have a solid power base, which Ned didn't actually have. To someone with an even rudimentary understanding of politics, that is worst move you can possibly make in a cut throat world like the capital. But then when Varys offers Ned a way to keep the entire continent from going up in flames, albeit at the cost of his honor. It is far from ideal for anyone except for the Lannisters and their supporters, but it's arguably the best solution for the realm as a whole because it's the best path to peace currently on the table. But does Ned initially accept? No. He would rather see the realm burn then bend his honor or leave the injustices against his friends and family go unanswered. And it's only when Varys points out that his daughter will suffer if he doesn't take the offer that he finally acquiesces. It's honestly the perfect example of how sometimes even a "positive" trait like an unbending sense of honor and duty can be negative traits in the wrong circumstances.

I'd say honor in the mind of Ned Stark also has aspects of honesty but not to shame if it can be avoided. Honesty, in the Game of Thrones, can be a huge detriment, you don't want to show your cards to just anyone.

I believe due to Ned being raised as a second son and basically raised to take orders he respects people who takes orders and sticks to their role anybody who steps outside the role make him uncomfortable and he doesn't like them

Ned does not distrust Robert, but it is simple, his honor will not allow him to accuse the Lannister's of killing John until he has the proof, period. His love for Robert is the only reason he came to King's Landing and it is similarly the reason he did not tell Robert about Cercei and Jamie's bastards. He did not want Robert to die believing he was a duped, and in a condition where he could not do anything about it. this is evidenced in the scene where his honor compels him to tell Cercei about what he knows, so she can flee Robert's wrath. Basically, Ned was too good of a person to play the game of thrones and he lost because he refused to play.

U know why Ned says " u served him well when serving was safe" because :- 1) Jaime was not at the battle of the trident where Barristan fought Honorably and Nobley with Rhaegar against robert. So ned may think that jaime smartly avoided the battle to see the outcome and then decide his side. 2) also Barristan was already a legendary knight as he saved and rescued areys when areys was kidnapped by himself and just a handful of few men. Also Barristan was renowned as a honorable man and knight in the kingdoms. Whereas jaime didnt have any "honorable" stories about him. (Winning tournies does not make a man a legend for ned atleast). 3) as in the very scene where they are talking, jaime says that everyone watched his father brother being murdered by mad king and no one even lifted a finger. And when jaime killed mad king it felt like justice for his father and brother. Then ned really sees the cowadice and audacity of jaime. Because if jaime really was all about justice then he would have saved neds brother and father right there and then even of it ment that jaime would die and would have not let the mad king burn them. Thats why he says "u served him well when serving was safe" as when the rebillion came right to mad kings doorstep only then jaime changed sides and betrayed the king he swore to protect, and that act can only be done by a coward according to ned and If arthur dayne or barristan was there in jaimes place they may have fought and died protecting aerys and doing their duty as kingsguard according to ned. 4) he talks that way to piecelle because jon arryn already died under his watch and piecelle was also the one who convinced aerys to welcome tywin in KL during the rebillion so thats why maybe he suspected him to not be loyal to the crown. No matter who sits on it.

Maesters do not take an oath to protect the king to death, that's why Ned calls Pycelle out for serving Aerys. Jaime on the other hand, took an oath to serve and ended up killing him, which is the worst way to break that oath

The biggest mistake Ned made was trusting the Stoneheart, Catelyn Tulley.

Could never understand how Ned wouldn’t have questioned why his actual friend and King Robert had allowed his wife to order the death of a child over the argument at the trident? Mika and his butcher dad were Roberts subjects and Cersei just orders the kid murdered and is open about it? Never got that

Oh I didn't figure that out until he screwed up his powerplay against the Lannisters (did he even know he was having a powerplay), because I didn't understand how JRRMs world worked, because I hadn't read the books.

I think the reason why Robb and Jon were more successful is that they were honorable but tweaked things along the way from watching others. Robb started off strong by tricking Jamie and winning the other battles, plus he used honor to keep his men loyal to him. But his big mistake was that his closest people started acting in their interests, assuming Robb would understand. Well, i dont think Theon expected understanding lol But his mother assumed he'd understand that even though he told her flat out, he couldn’t trade Jamie for the girls now. A lot of Cat fans will come after me, but she is at least 50% of the reason for the Stark downfall. She kidnapped Tyrion, Ned got attacked, her homelands were attacked, etc. Then she trusts Petyr when he suggests the trade. Why did she trust him after his last betrayal ended up getting Ned killed? And even if he was being honest, why would she trust Tyrion to hold up his end of the deal? She thought he tried to get Bran killed! There was zero reason for her to trust that bargain and every reason for her not to. Then he married Talisa, aka Jeyne. In the books its more honorable and understandable than in the show and not just that he banged her and fell in love. But the Karstark execution was one of his dumbest moves. You don’t go around beheading your own Northern bannermen like that. He should have locked him up and maybe stripped his titles, making his son the lord. Because the North is already destabilized with the Ironborn invasion, capture/burning of Winterfell and murder of his brothers. The Karstark loyalty was more important than the Freys or Theon because the Karstarks were also holding it down in the North. He needed them with him and back home. On the show he seemed to forget the north. He was concerned about Winterfell but none of the rest when Winter Is Coming and all that lol Then after Robbs' death both Sansa and Jon learned from his mistakes and their fathers plus Sansa picked up sly moves from Littlefinger and Cersei. Jon being with the Wildlings helped him learn soooo much. To be with them he had to kill the Halfhand then break every one of his vows. He realized that men he respected(Mance, Halfhand, Tormand, etc) did things that arent clear and obviously honorable but they actually were. Like Mance being willing to kill the Nights Watch because it would lead to the long term salvation of his people. Something that Ned didn't get which he saved Cersei's kids at the cost of his lands and people. Also Stannis was 'honorable' and he's burning people alive. Jon going to Hardhome was the right thing to do and it was smart. But he made a Robb style mistake. He assumed loyalty from his men because he assumed everyone shared his sense of honor, despite the fact he knew they thought he betrayed them. He made big moves as king that were good for his people. But he surrendered his crown to Dany because she saved him and lost her dragon. But I think she would have helped him without him bending the knee because of her dragon. If he had remained king but allied with her, he would have gotten her army and dragons in exchange for help with the Iron Throne. Then the Northerners and his sisters wouldn't have felt as uneasy of the alliance. And maybe he could have done some kind of move to prevent her from destroying KL. OR BRAN COULD HAVE WARNED HIM IT WAS GONNA HAPPEN!!! But I digress lol Jon and Sansa butted heads so much because she learned politics and he learned salvation. If they had worked together more they would have kicked ass. So yes honor is a great thing. You just can't be short sighted about the honorable move today that destroys things in the long run. Oh and I think the reason Ned didn't respect Jamie but did Barristan was because Barristan did his job loyally to the end and at this point Ned knew Rhaegar wasn't the bad guy. He was Lyanna's love and Jon's dad. One thing that both GOT and HotD did that pisses me off is that the only reason they figured out that Cersei's kids weren't Robert's was the lack of black hair. Then GOT has Shireen be a blond. And in the HotD Rhaenys Targaryen has white blond hair. But she is the daughter of a Baratheon and had black hair in the book. So obviously, the seed is not *that* strong.

Oh and his wife’s emotional impulsiveness. Cat should have been told to stay home and tend to Bran

Jamie wasnt surprised at Neds abilities. He was disappointed and confused. Jamie believes Ned killed his idol. Arthur Dayne. One of the best swordsman who ever lived. Once he gets to finally fight Ned he realizes he's mediocre at best. Jamie was toying with him and was baffled how someone that mediocre could kill Dayne. It's foreshadowing. We find out Ned got his ass kicked by Arthur and only won because Howland Reed helped him

30:35 Ned definitely comes from honor culture. This is a critical vulnerability, but it’s complicated by an internal struggle between honor, his love for his sister and by extension a love for mothers and children. I think it’s largely revealed in his fever dream.

Clearly, Loyalty is a big part of Neds concept of honor. But not doing immoral things is also. He simply didn't want the blood of innocent children on his hands, that not honorable. He expects Cersei to take her Children and flee, because he mistakenly thinks he has the upper hand, thinking Littlefinger has his back. Up to this point, there is not much reason to not trust him. By telling Cersei, he isn't illoyal to Robert - he even protects Robert from his own rage, which might have resulted in Robert having the blood of Cerseis children on his hands. So he thinks, he is protecting the children but still getting things right for Roberts succession. Maybe naive, but the logical thing to do for him

Ned sees his dead sister in Aria that's why he had that moment.

Ned is not an honourable man per se but a family man, he's traumatised by the death of family and children, his father and brother, his sister, Elia Martell and her children. All his actions make mucg more sense through this lens, including why he opposes the assassination of Dany. It's less about honour and more what he imagines Robert would do if he found out about Jon for example.

Great videos.

It’s baffling that Ned does not understand how much power he has. Tell Robert about your suspicions. And most importantly you are a lord paramount get your daughters to Riverrun at least.

I find Machiavelli so important when we look at individual actors who are in power. In the prince he says you need to be the fox and the lion, meaning a good leader, or in this case a good person in power cannot just operate in one way(honor in this case) a good leader shouldn’t always be a “good” person either. Ned stark being one way makes him predictable and able to be used as a pawn, as we saw with little finger. Bed has no cunningness to him and he tried to play by the rules when all his enemies played outside of them. As Varys said his honor ended up putting his entire family and the entire 7 kingdoms at risk.

I honestly think when Ned approached the table, it was to assert a sign of strength/respect. Kind of like how Tywin does in most of his scenes.

Only thing your not taking into account is Ned prolly thought he had time to did a few things out he def made mistakes, but once he told Cersei he def should have been and already called the banners and he should have rode his ass out to meet them but they planned to kill Ned not even I thought that was going to happen. Like it did but yeah he def made mistakes def should have helped Robert’s bro and should have have had a talk with him but think his intentions were to tell his buddy but never got chance to and def wanted the shit the back it up

Ned and Robert's relationship is fractured as a result of Tywin's actions in the sack of King's Landing and of the Rebellion as a whole. Ned isn't just motivated by honour he's also motivated by his love for his children and for his fear at what might happen to them - fear that is affected by the trauma of the rebellion. The show hints at this at various points, like when Ned looks on at Arya being trained by Syrio Forel, and we hear the sound of swords clashing on a battlefield and invited to assume this is what Ned is 'hearing'. One of the things that has always been odd is how it was called "Robert's" Rebellion, despite the Starks being the ones who were dealt misfortune. It's NED's sister who gets kidnapped by Rhaegar, it is Ned's brother who storms off to KL to confront the Mad King about it, it's Ned's father who rides to try and save Brandon and they are both murdered by Aerys.* Yet it's somehow called Robert's rebellion and I think that's something that should be noted. Ned's family suffers, but Robert acts like he's the aggrieved party and I dunno, I think that's what really started the breach between them. That's why Ned doesn't just tell Robert anything. They don't really repair their relationship and early developments in the plot - like what happened with Sansa and Arya between Joff and having to kill Lady, and seeing Michah the butcher's boy murdered - only reinforces this breach of trust. But also, Jon Arryn was Ned's foster father. He raised both Ned and Robert for much of their lives and he knows he's been murdered but doesn't know whether he can trust Robert. So that's why he doesn't just go 'to hell with this' and go back north, or just tell Robert everything he knows. It's a small line but one that serves to illustrate what motivates Ned - after he's warned Cersei that he knows the truth Cersei says that he made a mistake all along, well before the story even began, by not climbing the stairs and sitting on the Iron Throne himself. I think given everything Ned knows, as well as everything he has since found out, as well as what he knew Robert to be like before and after the rebellion, it's pretty telling that Ned says he has made plenty of mistakes but THAT was not one of them. He has seen what power does to people he cares about and he sees how they harm the innocent, and he's seen how duplicitous it has made everyone. Yes he has a code of honour but that's not solely it and people who fixate on that or call Ned stupid are missing the forest from the trees. Ned is a good guy who doesn't want innocent people to die, and he especially doesn't want innocent *children* to suffer or be hurt, and is desperately trying to avoid that. *Remember also that Ned likely knew or suspected the truth that Lyanna wasn't 'kidnapped' but rode away with Rhaegar willingly, and he either didn't communicate this to his brother and father or couldn't do it in time due to being separated by distance and circumstance, but that may have been something he blames himself for and holds tremendous guilt. It's one of the reasons why I think Benjen for example took the black. Benjen probably DID know as well and may have felt similarly to Ned about it and decided to take penance by going to the wall. Or maybe Ned forced him to take the black because Benjen didn't say anything and all of this could have been avoided or may have turned out differently if the rest of the family knew.

Ned got out played, his honor blinded and limited him to what he can do. He failed to make allies, he failed to make good strategy, he failed to see how dangerous and fast the Lannisters were at the game. Honor is great when you’re not at the end of a sword or ax. Ned found that out.

Yeah Eddard disdained the actual GAME.. I think it was a thing where Ned was fixated on past glory the rebellion seeing Bartheon in a certain light coming kings landing seeing how everything is really running.. Seemed like he was in disbelief and unwilling or not realizing the danger

I think him not telling Robert has more to do with Roberts Wrath

I think Ned could have sent Lady back to Winterfell without killing her! At least he didn't allow Cersei to have her pelt.

Ned respects Barriston because he served with honor and was well known to be a man of integrity. Ned thinks poorly of Jamie because he broke his oath by killing the king we swore to protect. Ned sees in black and white- no grey. He's limited in that he thinks people in positions of power are going to play by the rules so he he says what he's going to do because it's what he sees as honorable/obvious. They are playing the game of thrones while he's just trying to play by the rules that are completely irrelevant.

As far as him watching Aera sword fighting I'm not sure if he's thinking about what happened to Lyanna or if its finally hitting home how dangerous Kings Landing is

Part of me want to call Ned a damn fool but, he is a man who is dedicated to his code of honor. Like many religions honor have it's disciples and it's zealots. Like many religious zealots they have disdain for those who are not like them. To be acquainted with honorable men like Ned; you would have to be a honorable person yourself otherwise such men will not acquaint themselves with you. That's why Ned had nothing but disdain for Littlefinger when he came to offer a secret alliance. Plus he didn't trust Varys but, who was a shade of grey as we saw latter when Ned was in the dungeon. Men of honor do not care about political intrigue and subterfuge as to why Ned really didn't want to be the hand of the king. Then, too, the thought of wasting of resources on lavish events when the crown is in debt. Lastly Ned thought that Robert should focused on ruling the realm instead sending assassins to kill the Targaryan siblings. Again, when it comes to men of honor, their code can be their flaw. A code of honor can blind men like Ned to the treachery and the connivingness of others.

‘You served him well when serving was safe’ he’s obviously talking about aerys as soon as the mad king days where numbered Jamie stabbed him in the back. Surprised you didn’t get that.

His honour was not worth it. Maybe he should have honour second family first. And Ned needed to safeguard his family first get Sansa and Arya away from kings landing on a ship

Ned was a man who avoided politics until he was forced to play them. And as such, was way too naive of how things worked when he got the job of the hand. The hand of the king is not the place to learn politics.

I think jamie mainly killed the mad king to side with his dad who was sacking the city. And not to truly save everyone. Remember he was commanded to kill tywin as well and he knew that the mad king had lost the war. He didnt become chill until after he lost his hand. He was a slimy cut throat before then. the best fighter and one of the richest men in the country. basically conor mcgregor/jon jones in one person. u can only imagine all of the people hes stepped on over the years on a day to day basis with physical and legal impunity pluss the privelige of being attractive.

Ned didn't have a strategy at all he didn't know how to play ▶️ the game of thrones ⚔️ and that's what got him killed

The irony is how Pycelle didnt serve Aerys nor Robert well. Due to being stuck so far up Tywin's ass that he breathed the golden fumes of Tywin's shit.

Ned was just kind of an idiot. He could have been honorable without constantly overplaying his hand.

Ned should have fled and smuggled through girls out through a ship

Didn't Jaime even get mad at his own guard for stabbing stark in the back of the knee.

Ned is basically saying you served well when it was easy. When shit hit the fan you showed your true colours kind of thing. He is referring to the mad king not Robert. How he did his job as asked through peace time but when war came he stabbed him in the back. Ned sees things very black and white and dosnt know jaimes story of Being asked to bring aerys his father's head and to stand by while the mad king burned kings landing to the ground. Ned thinks Jamie killed him as a turn cloak and act of cowardice. If he knew the truth it probably wouldn't change neds opinion anyway because again he broke an oath and there is no honour in that but in a way there is more honour in what jaime did in a way. He sacrificed his own reputation and life to save millions and end the war. Jaime was gonna slink away after the murder so someone else could be blamed but was pretty much caught in the act. He believes its his most honorable act yet he is reviled for it so its why Jamie has a bad view on honour and oaths. Either way you spin it your gonna break it anyway.

Honor in of itself isn’t the problem for ned the the unbending nature of it and lack of pragmatism 8:25 ned was talking about the mad king whom Jamie broke his kings guard oath when Aries Targaryen order him to kill his father who was sacking kings landing this is common Knowles dude

What part got it taken down or did you remove it?

At lead Ned died with his principles. I honestly think he was at peace with that. He would have betrayed his entire being by pursuing one of the many other avenues. Cersei and the Lannisters, while extremely clever, have no principles. They deserved their deaths.

Some people say in the comments say yeah Jaime should have killed the Mad King earlier bruh Jamie was like literally 16 years old not only that but Arthur Dayne and that other guy who’s nickname is the Bold was there so we have like 20 other highly trained kings guard even if Jamie made a move to kill him the other kings guard would have Cut him down before he even gets 5 feet close to the Mad king, also what where you guys doing at age 16 I doubt any other teenager would have acted differently ultimately people forget that his was just a kid.

You say Ned is incontinent and on the surface your right. The nature of the criticism is what your missing. Dispite Neds Opinion of Aers, he didn't hate Rhaegar. As I said before, Ned holds vows of faltey in high regard and a ruler can't rule without loyalty. So warriors who keep there oath are people Ned respects the most. Hence why he hates Jamie. Pycell n the other hand isn't a very good Maeste or man at that.. His knowledge of poisons is better than his knowledge of healing. His influence was at the Hart of a lot of Aers atrocious acts. Killing with poison is a cowards tool and when a coward chooses to serve a tyrant like Aers, they deserve no respect. Ned is a warrior at heart, not a politician. The North is easy to Rule, because it's filled with warrior clans. The south is filled with people like Pycell, who'll I'd a tyrant like Aers for power regardless of the consequences. This reason is why he doesn't trust Varys or little finger either. Ned is used to the brutal honesty of the North. The south is full of liers, backstabbers and cowards. None of which, Ned trusts or respects.

He should have listened to Renly, or got out immediately.

I used to think this was the best show ever... until I read the books. While the art of making the show was awesome, acting, cinematography ect. The writing ruined it.

Yet Ned still won the game of thrones through his legacy!

You super missed the point of Ned's interactions with Jaimie and barriston

20:33 not true Barry the bold was with Ned but he's just as an honorable fool though and awful at playing the only game that matters

Ned bought the city watch & they betayed him.

I still think Ned was kind of stupid

What got Ned killed? His wife

Ned was the worst father in all of ASOIF

Is Ned Stark lawful neutral? As he pretty much does what the right thing to do is regardless of if its really good or evil. Like killing Sansa's wolf was an evil act. Some might argue that he is lawful good as he himself certainly believes that he is doing whats the right thing to do is, but in that case he would represent the "lawful stupid" archetype.

Ned's honor code is so classical that it requires honoring his enemies. He must be good to all, even conflict instigators. The North respected his ethics and sword arm. King's Landing saw him as foolish and weak willed.

Full Disclosure: I'm a book-only fan and everything I know about the show comes from RU-vid, mostly in the form of anti-Benioff & Weiss rants. 😉But I'm not blind to plot holes in the books. For example, it makes no sense that Lysa "didn't dare" to share her evidence against the Lannisters. Ignoring that no one on the Lannister side could have understood Lysa's letter if they'd somehow intercepted it, if Lysa had written as much as she had, there's no reason why she couldn't have spilled the tea on why she suspected the Lannisters. This omission should have made Ned a little dubious. There's also why the hell Catelyn immediately burned the letter-no-one-else could read, without even letting Ned see it. 'The Order of the Green Hand' channel even has an entire Catelyn-bashing conspiracy theory about this element. Then there's Catelyn's bizarre decision to abduct Tyrion, on the grounds that he might have warned his father that he'd seen Catelyn traveling incognito. *Yet by arresting him she ensured that the entire Seven Kingdoms knew she was on the road on some covert mission.* Talk about a stupid blunder! I could go on, but you get the gist. There's plenty of idiocy to go round on all sides in ASOIAF.