How To Not Suck At Sieging 

You didn't count numerous bolts shot by DShards and BThrowers! Are their "lives" wothless, you senseless brute? Well, game thinks the other way!

Time matters too, that's why all those slow and methodical cheese strats get close and not decisive.

I got a phyric victory when I lost 1549 out of 2700 something against 5402 vampires. I literally had 1100 kills on my companions of quenelles. HOW ISNT THAT A HEROIC VICTORY. Bruh I only got like 3 chiv points from that. I feel like i only get this shit in tw2 tho.

@@yamiji3380 That's not correct. I regularly take upwards of 15-20 minutes cheesing sieges and I get decisive plenty enough.

I think the problem is the game does ot count the ennemy army as entirely destroyed ^^

Its like the logic of the autoresolve bar XD

I won the star of avelorn quest battle with minimal loss, only 1 unit even took damage and it was minimal, barely used any ammo (alarielle with 6 resistant hand maidens can kill the frost wyrm in melee without ever getting hit). Close victory...

old as fuck comment but for some reason CA decided to add ammo to the formula which calculates heroic/clear/close/pyrrhic victories. I've had victories where I didn't lose a man outnumbered 2:1 on the autoresolve bar as dwarves and got "close victory" because I was almost out of ammo

@@duckheadbob Yea, close victory is fine... but pyrrhic victory?

it's called sarcasm...ptff...people these days...

"those arrows were your precious comrades that you have lost in vain" derpy Total War AI.

I recently fought with 1100 dwarves against 2500 Norskans in a chokepoint. I lost 4, they lost 1500. It was a "close victory" because my artillery and Ironbreaker ammo was running slightly low...

Auto Resolve be like *DECISIVE VICTORY* 1000 Ally Casualty - 100 Enemy Casualty

Or you look at one part of your army and suddenly 5 units in the back get nuked by a rocket.

@Tom V. overcast + forcing the enemy into blobs (units leaving the siege towers for example)

Tom V. Step 1. Click on the spell Step 2. Click on it again to overcast it Step 3. Select any non single entity enemy and watch them get obliterated.

Or watch a full elite unit get insta killed by a warp bomb.

Skaven OP, pls nerf

Meta Siege: Genius ! Current campaign is on unlimited time unfortunately :(

Martin Carion you can change that mid campaign in the settings

@@RustlessPotato It can be changed mid campaign if you really want to in the campaign options. I like to have the classical 60 minutes, but 40 minutes would usually be the best time, when you can, use up all your ammo and magic, and then don't stand around for 10 minutes in triple speed. Depends on how many ranged units you have.

Nice! but I think the dude was just shooting at chameleon lol.

Dude WHAT Amazing

The game counts used ammunition as a loss, and he used up a significant amount of ammo. It's a stupid but that's why he got a close victory.

Yeah as a new player myself, this was my big takeaway from this. Use your artillery to take out the towers, then use ranged to take out anything on the walls if you can, and THEN send in your melee units. Don't even try breaching the gate or send in siege towers until you've done all that, is what I'm getting.

Then I remember all my missile units fire in straight lines and I have no magic (Dwarfs) so I have to forget all that and rush the breach anyhow.

That's literally what he did, no need to add it.

@@das_ollon Well recently in a Markus campaign, dark elves just kept going onto the walls (backside) while my arrows wiped them out. I kinda wish they had the intelligence to sally out in force.

Agreed, playing sieges the way the game encourages you to do (aka right click and assault walls) just doesn’t cut it. In a way doing sieges this way is more relaxing and less stressful

@@das_ollon It's considered cheese because the enemies don't sally out even though they have the advantage.

@@das_ollon It's cheese because it's taking advantage of how the AI works. Any normal halfway intelligent person would either pull their forces back or sally out if they saw their opponent using just ranged/casting troops. The AI not only leaves its troops on the walls even under artillery fire, but it also replaces lost forward troops with its reserves.

@@das_ollon Nahh its total massive cheese just no one cares because the sieges suck anyway.

Also Legend: Watch me win this battle without even breaching the gate.

@Avatar Ang At the same time how else would they manage the scale of Warhammer's magic megacities?

@@DIEGhostfish have you ever played, Rome 2 or Attila and played a Rome/Roma Siege, That map is HUGE, I think they could have managed a Warhammer mega city.

@Avatar Ang havent u heard about mods wtf

Yeah... this whole thing looked like ultra cheese to me... ...but then again - it's a choice between this or losing half your army zerging.

@@arthasmenethil7208 Can't tell if you're trolling or not. Since when does a mod making a bad aspect of the game good mean that the original aspect it fixed was also good?

i love that game

to be fair, i've used a similar tactic a few times as scaven in WH2, i position my main army on the opposite side of reinforcing army (skavenslaves). use careful shots using my main, and then rush with reinforcements to the walls to overwhelm ranged enemy units, then rush walls with main, didn't even bother with destroying towers, just used artillery to soften up melee wall defenders, worked like a charm so far every time

But this is how seige was fought in real life except the ai is not smart enough to use artillery and archers or take cover close to the wall

What's the title?

@@janpiorko3809 Towers of the Teeth from an old lotr cartoon

"You are standing in the eye of the storm! Move an inch, and you'll be dead!"

"You are standing underneath The towers of the teeth And the eye Blazes Red!"

Has 56k income, still runs around with all basic armies...

@@momentarylapse1362 Well, it takes a long time to run your armies all the way back to your recruitment area.

@@chriswhinery925 except he's a dark elf, he can recruit from the black ark

It’s even worse than that. He surely would’ve finished the whole battle with no damage if he had only used the Scarecrow Banner.

@@JB-xl2jc wait, the scarecrow banner effects the whole map?

Seras Lilith It applies a -100 leadership debuff to all enemy units map wide. Also, I am lying.

@@JB-xl2jc Everybody knows that lizards are deathly afraid of scarecrows. It's just common sense.

Chillwind is a foot speed debuff spell if you're building range centric Armies the -24 to speed on anything it touches for non overcast is good enough to put infantry to crawl speed. The overcast -48 to speed debuff is enough to put cavalry to crawl speed. It's single best field support spell for Armies already proficient for sieges. My Malekith Stacks has darkshards and reaper bolt throwers without any line holders because it's unnecessary if you can slow 3-4 of the Ais units they will lag behind if you slow other units as well you can pretty much have half the enemy army falling behind. This doesn't get overwhelmed either by enemy having full 2 stacks with simple corner camping. All that it takes for chillwind to shine is to recognize which units are fast to fast for range units to shoot down.

datuputi777 chillwind deals a lot of damage too. It does take 2-3 casts before you start getting kills but i’m quite confident it can deal over 2.5k damage if you align it perfectly

Overcast Doombolt can almost one shot Doomwheel, which might be hard to pin down in field battle due to the animation.

Tun J doombolt isn’t worth it when the same nation as fiery bolts aka the single entity killer.

@@adam_somada4266 It's not a damage dealer spell more so on intended unit scale and higher(which is max).

If you just got the game you really shouldn't be playing on this difficulty. Melee units have basically no use on that difficulty level and so it really changes how you would do the battle. He also got pretty lucky here with placement of the monsters all being pretty close to the wall. It would be common for the computers to leave a large force in the central square and he never would have been able to get to them. Basically very hard/legendary difficulty are broken and are really just a kind goofy alternate game mode that should really just be called "ranged only."

It's based on relative HP damage taken so if you have like he did several heroes and big single entities which took damage it's relatively a 'close' victory. Same can happen in other experiences too.

Its dumb. Apparently it's the difference in Balance of Power, which is affected by ammunition. So the more ammo you use, the lower your victory type trends

Scatter! Simple Geometry!

dead game lul

I only learnt this yesterday but the difference is huge. Literally hundreds of hours playing HE and I never noticed tho😂

I used single bolts for a large time because the numbers were similar total, but because there's no spread I assumed there would be more damage missed then if it was spread out

Talking about patience

@@calebbarnhouse496 Yeah, if I had to guess, that is the reason.

Single is meant to snipe large targets down while multi is meant for groups. One isn't better than the other, they are just used for different situations.

@@shadowscall7758 I was kinda talking about for towers although I did not say that so my bad. I meant which was better for taking out towers in big city sieges.

elm I personally find it quite silly that it doesn’t do more damage.

on legendary? hell no. your melee soldiers are basically a tier below, and the enemy melee are one tier up. like, a tomb guard in legendary difficult is the equivalent of a skeleton warrior because of the buffs the AI receives. If you dont cheese against the AI, you are basically doomed most of the time. and even if you could, probably the losses you would get simply would fuck you up as the AI would just summon a full stack and attack you with it.

Legendary in Total War is far less a test of skill and more of a test of how hard you can cheese and abuse the AI.

tbh what legend did there is barely cheese, I guess shooting from over the wall is but he could have taken the walls with ladders and dark shards support after taking out the towers and then shoot the dinos from the wall. It wouldn't be cheese anymore be he would have lost alot of dreadspears in the process. Also what I like to do is making a bunch of siege towers (6 is ideal) to take the wall cleanly (ladders will exhaust your units once they reach the top making them very vulnerable)

Sounds pretty cheesy

Their damage output is similar, but they have much longer range that can be buffed into the stratosphere with red line buffs. Second best archer unit in the game after waywatchers.

Shades also have the advantage of being good in melee, so you don't need as many troops holding the line

shades have vanguard position which is really helpful if you need artillery taken out early and high speed means they can dip out faster than my father.

I am pretty sure siege map size varies. I think on most maps towers can shoot right to the back.

But in real life even this is fast for a siege. The main goal of a siege is not to take the city by force, it's to starve them into surrender.

True , a rework is needed because after a while is become boring to do the same thing over and over again

Aenaerion the defender never lost, but lizards did. Gotta suck to be second to knife ears.

I think one easy solution would be to let the AI sally out if you decide to attack on the first turn. It would make sense from a realistic perspective (they see you coming and choose to face you on the battlefield instead of cowering behind their walls), while also preventing you from using artillery/ranged/magic spam to easily defeat superior armies on the walls.

@@ninetailedfox579121 Good idea funny thing is it would increase disaster battles more, think it would be fair that your ambush success chance be in play so you can do the normal siege if you succeed on ambush.

They reposition their army based on how you've positioned yours. If you're not getting a good layout, just move your army back and forth and see if you can trick them.