From one mechanic to another, loving these videos Jerry. Really like your no bullshit, can do attitude and well made videos. Greetings from the UK , on lockdown!! 🤘🏻
Thank you so much - that's great to hear - I like no bullshit too. Greetings from Michigan... on serious lock down. Take care - by the way, my peeps were from Belgium - then came to America around 1945
I've done the plug weld with really good results. However, I'm really impressed with the used oil trick. Thanks for sharing. Also, I like the way you keep everything simple. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Hey! I wanted to thank you for your videos! These are the best videos I've seen for working on car bodies. I've never worked on autobody, but these videos gave me the confidence to learn and buy my own tools. So far so good!
ideally it would be great to have a spot welder, but besides mine, not worked in a shop that had one since the mid 1990's. I do like your oil solution & I will use it when I build my shop truck. I have a 1966 Chevrolet C10 big big project, needs floors, outer floors, all 4 cab mounts, inner & outer rockers, cab corners, lower door skins, lower front fenders, tail light housing, wheel arch on both rear wheels, tailgate patching, bed front panel patch, and hood repair. but truck was exactly what I was looking for, runs awesome, and correct stance, and price was right in my opinion. I dont want to think what a body man would charge to fix, lol...... my labor is free to me.
I had success with chain saw bar oil thinned with white spirit (paint thinners). It soak in well but over time it gels and leaves a great protective layer on the metal.
I learn so much from your videos jerry. Installed a new rocker panel and rear cab corner on my 96 extended cab GMC following your videos. The used motor oil tip will be used as well. Thanks again for your excellent work and efforts.
I was shown 3M cavity wax a few years ago. This is used to stop the inside of door cavities rusting, it contains vapour phase inhibitors. I tip a can into an old army screw top grease can (1953) and just cover whatever I do not want to rust with a thin layer with a gloved hand. It will even stop stuff rusting outside in the rain. A great product, it would dribble into the crevice shown above and set there. It can be removed with WD40. It can be thinned more with cellulose thinners. It is a great product and little known.
Thanks for the information my friend - I'll look into that stuff. I like the idea of just wiping it on or brushing it on too - less overspray and more accurate :)
I'm sure you'll do just fine - doesn't need to be perfect - just so they hold well. If they are ugly grind them down a bit (flush) wire brush or sand blast them and fill with body filler. Once you sand and prime them you'll never know the diff.
I've used alu-zinc spray on the pince welds before plug welding .You just scrape it away where your welding. Also there is cavity wax that you spray inside your panels whereyou repaired and it seeps down into the crevice also. After paint wrk is done, of course.
@@LakesideAutobody No, it flows , it's sprayable so it's fairly thin. It also stays tacky, doesn't harden. It's available in quart cans for a schutz type gun and aerosol also.
@@brysontrotman5865 you are using it wrong if you think it is burns off. When zinc or copper welding primer is used, the primer burns and leaves the copper and zinc behind as a protectant. It doesn't work when butt welding panels together.
@@SkaterStimmit also doesn’t work when doing plug welds. You have to clean the primer from the weld spot to get a good weld. It was intended for resistance welding, not mig.
Thank you. This helped a ton. This tool seems not terribly helpful since you still need to prep the metal, and I think I've decided to pass on it. I could see applications where you want a perfect factory appearance and agree it would be slightly faster in visible areas, but trading off some epoxy coverage, IMO, weld-thru primer is inferior to 2k epoxy. When I plug weld, I drill the one piece, mate it up with the other(already epoxied) piece, then either handheld spot blast or use a modified drill bit to remove the epoxy, then weld.
I have reason to believe that you got your carpenter's pencil from "Big Orange", AKA the "Home Depot". Fun fact: I used to work at the "Builder's Square II" on Hall Rd where the Harbor Freight Tools now is. I also still have a green apron from when it morphed into HQ/Home Quarters before folding.
That's so funny. I was just talking to my wife about HQ - they weren't around for long at all - but we redid our first house using that store. The one off of 696 and Gratiot - or somewhere around there. I think that turned into a HD too :)
I'm sure weld through is fine with a spot welder where the heat is really concentrated but I don't thing it would survive plug welding, personall I do something similar to here but I spray a heavy coat of primer so that it sees between the join, I do this because I don't want my new work all dripp ing with old oil.
@ i prep my and clean work peices ..place large round sticker where my welds will go... i expoy prime and paint my peices interior faces only...when dry remove stickers use only copper weld over the bare welding locations threw as its Melting point: 1,085 °C but its boil point is 2,562 °C so it not going to burn up. Do my spot weld or mig plug welds...then pour expoy primer with zinc in the welded seam.... clean and seam seal wear need then paint exterior ...
Weld thru primer is no longer allowed through oem procedure repairs on vehicles, it’s considered contamination, and it sucks to weld, I’ll use it where I have to but I clean the weld area after I mock up the panels. Most procedures now call for resistance spot welders along with squeeze type resistance using a bonding material in between panels
If you want true rust protection on overlap panel joining, firstly apply 3M 05917 to the welding area and use a spot welder and a single sided one for the areas you cannot get access for a double sided, its what I do, my customers rightly do not want to take any chances with their collectible classics. Good tips and video for hobbyists though.
I don't know if you can get it in the US, but Waxoyl is really good; sprays in between panels then seeps into any gaps where water may collect then semi-hardens to a flexible film.
You have to get creative to hit all the areas but it does really work. I've got a 2002 KIa that I bought for my wife new - been doing it when I do oil changes - No rust at all on the rockers, door bottoms, tailgate, etc. Glad you approve! Jerry
You're welcome. I bought a KIA in 2002 for my wife and did this since it was new on every panel - no panel ever even came close to rotting or rusting out - nice clean oily bottoms - like the bottom edge of a valve cover. Some old guy showed me this at a shop I was working at and have done it ever since.
Speaking of HFT, I’m a cashier there and these guys returned for warranty exchange six of our big opening Vice Grip type clamps that were bent all up. They had spatter on them so I figured the guys were welders. Now two years ago when at age 69 I went to welding school I found I usually didn’t need so much Force with our 6” long coupons. But in the real world of welding do you have to put six clamps on so tightly that you bend them?
Hi - when you plug weld, can you tell me whether you touch the wire in the centre of the hole and work outwards....or do you start at the edges and work in. Thanks. Mike
Good question. If it's a small hole/plug weld just start in the middle and hopefully the spot weld will end up reaching the perimeter. If it's larger hole like 3/8" or more you can start on the outer edge and sort of spiral into the middle. It's totally up to you though as the goal will be achieved no matter how it's done. Figure out what works best for you as long as it's filled and you have decent penetration on the bottom panel. Hope that helps :)
USED motor oil seeps much better into crevices ( and rust ! ) much better than new. So you’re not cheaping out using used motor oil. Just don’t go overboard and get it where it can catch fire!
Well... That's why butt welding patch panels isn't really the best practice. Here's the answer. Weld it up best you can, tap down the welded area, fill using regular body filler or fiberglass reinforce filler, sand, prime, paint. There are lots of videos on this channel that demonstrate that process. Ask more ?s if needed :)
My grandpa always poured in some used ATF down in the pinch weld to prevent rusting. Guess it’d be the same as used oil, but the used oil is more often on hand.
Over here in New Zealand, we have been using a product called fish oil or Fish Olene to seal inside doors and body panels, it creeps everywhere, soaks through dirt and rubbish inside panels you can not clean out, dry's tacky, can be primed over but no real need as it does not go away, it seals out air and moisture, the original stuff smelt like old fish and you had to drive around for a few days with windows and boot lids (trunks to you guys) open to let the smell out and all the old blind men thought old woman were passing by, morning ladies, but you can now get odourless versions, all my cars have it and no rust, been using it for 40 years.
Just to save $ really. Something you can use the old oil for. Here's some solid evidence that it really works well. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-y05dNxt-nVc.html
Here's one - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-gIS1Tbv7Kvw.html and here's another that really shows the effectiveness - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html
@@LakesideAutobody If you buff the penetrol onto faded paint, even peeling paint- it kind of dissolves the clear coat and it will bring back the shine on an otherwise terrible looking hood. Also good with black plastic trim, just make sure to wipe the penetrol off pretty soon after applying to the plastic. I was impressed. I'm sort of experimenting with using it as metal primer, thinking about painting that Majik paint from Tractor Supply as a top coat, they have clear coat too. makeshift body work, trying to keep the truck on the road while I fix it cheap sort of lol.
@@apples13able77 Thanks a lot for the tips - I have a tractor supply very close - I'll have to check out their tractor paint and clear maybe do a video on that :)
I like .023" - just seems to enter into the weld pool smoother (melts faster?). It's really close though so in the end you can certainly get used to either - they both work fine :)
Thanks for the plug weld lesson. Using motor oil or salt isn't going to work on replacement panels for my 1970 Shelby convertible. It would be really hard to primer and paint with oil dripping everywhere! I noticed that the oil was dripping out of the plug weld. Is that pug weld going to be a future problem?
@@LakesideAutobody I picked up a 96 c2500 with 55k actual. Drives like new but every panel is toast. Rusty. So far I have a nice 8ft box and a nice right fender. Will need cab corners rockers and complete paint. Still looking for doors.
@@lh5422 Have you tried W & W in Roscommon? I've been going there for a few parts - they're pretty reasonable. What's up with the doors and fender? Real bad or fixable? I like those pickups. The one that I'm doing videos on is a 96 also (K1500) - 800 bucks
@@LakesideAutobody It is a Ford Contour. It is not so easy to tell but it looks to me like the inner rocker is a rectangular tube where the back, top and bottom are solid but the front has openings ever so often. The bottom has a 90 bend which the front meets at a seam which is the sill. So there are 2 layers as you say folded over meeting at the sill. Then the rocker meets at the sill making up 3 layers pinched together. So I have to remake the tube somehow then add the rocker patch. You're really nice to help me plan this. I can't find anyone to fix it so it's me or nothing.
@@bobjayp Most of the times when cars came into a body shop I was working at had rusted rockers we did what ever it took to weld metal in so that there was something for the filler to hang onto. Basically, if you can get it close with some sheet metal you're doing well. They probably don't make replacement rockers for that car. You don't have to make it exactly like the factory either - check this video out at around 5 minutes and 10 seconds in ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2vEPQimW564.html
@@LakesideAutobody there are lots of 18 gauge weld rockers available. even a 20 gauge slip-on. even Made in Detroit not China. issues that I have is methods to rebuild the inner and middle and then tie them with the outer at the sill pinch area. least of my concern is cosmetics. my goal is strength of repair for restoring the jack area. maybe asking too much but that is what I want to try to accomplish.
Weld thru primer is MUCH better as you don't have to worry about the oil eventually getting under the freshly painted surface after the weld job and eventually lifting and destroying the paint as per your pinhole.That is the experience I have had with the oil and other than agreeing to disagree with one part, very good video albeit the rust on the backside of the metal that was welded 5:15.
I bought a 2002 Kia and started oiling it from day one - no rust yet and no lifted paint. Check this out too - it really does work well - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html
I probably forgot to mention to do that only after you paint - sorry - here's a good video on how well that this method can work - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html
Hello Jerry my question is how big should a plug weld be 5/16 or 3/8 I'm not too sure when it comes to drilling a hole on a plane so you can weld it up
As long as you are getting good penetration to the other side 5/16 will work fine. I don't like the hole so big that it becomes a job to fill it up. Keep it small but strong - if that makes sense. Those MIG welds are super strong 3-4 of them across a piece of sheet metal would pull quarters/frames/posts, etc.
Take a look at your transmission pan or an engine block - no rust just greasy old oil. Check out this video in which these methods kept this truck pretty much rust free for the 10 years since I fixed the rust. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html
Yes - I should mention that. I have welded on cars and trucks many times by mistake and nothing ever went wrong so... not sure if it's absolutely necessary. Have a good week Don :)
If the metal is so thin that you are burning holes right through, it might be easier to tap the area down and fill with fiberglass reinforced filler like this - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rPTaeH056ng.html It's sort of cheating but can work real well if you can coat the back of the hood with rubberized undercoating to seal the repair from water. Let me know what you decide to do - Jerry
I've seen factories put them less than an inch apart and up to 2-3" or more apart so I guess it depends on the application. It's really what you think will do the job. There's no specific rule for distance apart :)
Yes 22 gauge - it's .030" - I also use 20 gauge which is around .035" - Just depends on what this steel place has at the time near me. Alro Steel. It's cold rolled carbon sheet A1008
oh no, i understand you theory but you must be painting 1st? otherwise that will bring another set of problems for finishing.. I do enjoy all of your videos
My vote goes to cosmoline. It is a giant PITA to remove, and protects otherwise super rust prone steel like nobody's business. Mil-spec wise it's same as RP-342 clear, I believe.
I have the cheap 36" one from harbor freight but I used to just clamp the metal between two straight pieces of hard board and bend it over - still do if I need a real long piece done. Would be nice to have a quality brake though - Nice to hear from you Joey - have a good week :)
Can a 110 v flux core mig be used for auto body? I have a 1959 chev truck I’m working on. I have a Lincoln mig set up for flux core. Do I have any hope welding a patch panel in a fender without blowing through constantly? thanks!
I'm not a real fan of flux core but I also have not used it enough to be a good reference. I would certainly give it a try - I don't think it would have any more heat or cause any other problems. Let me know how it goes. Jerry
Here's the best way to prevent rust in pinch welds and other seams - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-8XaZBy7GC7A.html Weld through primers aren't doing a great job as we can se by the pick up trucks and cars that are rusting quickly today :)
You could do that. I'm not big on weld through primer as I think it has an effect on the weld and I just can see it holding up to those temperatures and there would still be bare metal for sure. Best to treat the seam after the repair. OEMs are going away from weld through too - Honda is one.
Probably would work very well on dune buggies, sand rails, custom fabrication jobs etc. Might be able to throw in some threads here and there if you busted a rusted bolt off and needed a new hole too :)
@@POLOreme You're welcome. I answer comments 1-2 times a day so feel free to ask any ?s you have - doesn't have to match the video really - have a good week :)
@@LakesideAutobody great to know. I have several projects going on that need panel replacement/rust repair so im sure I'll be asking. LoL. Love the channel btw.
Every MIG welder varies. Mine has a chart on the inside of the cover that you can use as a general rule of thumb. But I usually keep the wire speed around 32/33 for #1 voltage/heat setting and around 40 for #2 voltage/heat setting. Thats all I use for sheet is 1 and 2 for heat. It's a little bit of trial and error though for each welder and type of metal you're welding. Hope that helps - Jerry
Do you mean a pinch weld at the bottom of the panel? Sort of like what the factory does with the spot welders - pinch the two pieces together and it the spot welder melts them together? I'm not sure if that would work or not :) BTW I looked up that 1873 Winchester - beautiful! Never hear of that - might have to look into one of those.
@@LakesideAutobody I'm not entirely familiar with the welding terminology (not a professional welder), but I believe in tig welding they'd call it an edge joint and it'd be a continuous weld seam along the edges instead of a spot weld. Never heard of the '73, and you're american and I'm from Finland :)
@@1873Winchester Hi from Michigan. This state uses salt on the roads in the winter so we get a ton of rust. In body shops in Michigan and most states professional body shops use a combination of lap welds and butt welds. Some shops use panel adhesive for patch work. All are acceptable. See this playlist on rust repair - it is how it's done in most shops in the rust belt. ru-vid.com/group/PLOP9eoG14-I-qu68_805bZaOnmkdlv6Ys BTW - I used to watch the "Rifleman" on TV - wonder if he used the '73 - sort of looked like it - great show when I was little.
@@LakesideAutobody yeah salt is used here too, but when it gets colder they switch to gravel and sand. I've not watched the show but I remember it was an 1892 rifle they used. I have both a '73 (italian in 357) and a '92 (brazilian in 44 mag)
@@1873Winchester Thanks for the information - I've got to get into the shooting - I live rural Michigan so there's plenty of areas to try out rifles and stuff. I have a J Stevens 16 ga double barrel side x side and a H+R 12 ga single that will break you arm with a slug in it. I'd like to get some stuff that's easier to shoot.
You'd be fine using the same procedure seen here on new cars w/ no problems. This metal is 20 gauge (.035"). Most cars today are 22 or 20 gauge .030 - .035.
If you have money, I really think the small Miller 110v gas MIG welder is the way to go. It's money well spent if you plan on doing this stuff for the rest of your life. However here's a video on a cheaper solution that will also work but will take more practice. MIG welders are used in all body shops - not flux core but it will do the job : ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ic7Gwf8y4Yc.html BTW I will be doing a video on the Harbor Freight Titanium Flux 125 soon so that may help you too. Let me know what you decide and always ask ?s
@@thomastice3475 Short story. When I was your age I got a 1971 Plymouth Satellite and painted it myself - my dad was a body man and made me work with him and taught me. Anyway when I was 18, I smashed it and had it towed to a local body shop. The boss asked me who painted it and I said, "I did" He said, "want a job?" The next day he had me welding on door bottoms with a Miller MIG welder - I literally had the hang of it in about an hour - they are that nice.
@@thomastice3475 It's a little tougher in some ways today but a little easier in others. You'll find your way - just keep doing the right thing every day and the big guy upstairs will open doors for you - promise :)
U ever try fluid film in the crevice? Thanks for the real world examples! Don’t like watching the videos where it feels like they in a science lab and everything is perfect! Obviously in my garage at home that ain’t happening! 😂
Even in a professional shop it ain't happening - really - it's rarely perfect. BTW, I just bought a gallon of the fluid film and look forward to trying it out. Thanks for the comment and support :)
The oil ends up being a film so if you have to repaint just wipe the exterior panel with wax and grease remover or mineral spirits, reducer, etc. I don't use weld through primer because I believe the weld burns the primer up and you're no better than you were before. Best way is to rust proof after the repair and make sure your drain holes stay clean. Here is some good evidence: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-y05dNxt-nVc.html
Thanks for the video. A product like fluid film is also great for protecting gaps like this. Stays in place a bit better than motor oil in the long term, but it's also not free so... :)
@LakesideAutobody there is a spray gun on the shelf for this. Undercoat spray gun. The tip is just a metal tube that is pinched at the end. The fluid film sprays good through the pinched tube. And it comes with attachments with rubber tubing to spray inside the panels and frames. Fluid film is the best.
Used motor oils contain acids, toxins and what not that will deteriorate any material it gets in contact with. If you want to use an oil then do like our grandfathers: Linseed oil, it polymerizes and sticks to the metal.
@@bjr2379 One time I had a trans line leak at the radiator. Before I knew it everything was coated with trans fluid in the engine compartment - stayed nice corrosion free for years :)
When working in a body shop your welds aren't always going to look good - fore sure. There's all different variables that come into play. It's the finished product that counts - and if the weld is strong :)
I am not impressed. Your plug welds are not the way they should be - the seeping oil proves that at least the middle hole was not filled up completely. The holes have to be filled up completely otherwise the notch effect seriously impairs the strength of the connection. Part of the problem was that your welder wasn't set up correctly. You did recognize that but instead of correcting the error you continued welding. Very bad habit. My criticism may sound harsh but you claim this to be an educational video and therefore it should show perfect work.
@@tunichtgut5285 Ask Matt to fix this type of damage: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-36zkc9UQaTs.html or this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HiwVTSYFgB4.html or this ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0vDCpeZjp8g.html
@@LakesideAutobody I used to like oil ,, but very quickly ,,,, oil floats on water .,. condensation is water oil floats on the top stopping water from escaping , problem , as it emulsifies it then holds the water ,, if you have to go back to rework , it then burns , another problem , it can rot cable insulation , problem , ,, they use aff 50 on helicopters and air craft wings , ive yet to see them spray waste oil into aircraft wings , ,,, do some reading , I did , and the stuff works for me ,,, but anything is better than waxol , since they changed the formula ten years ago now ,, its tragic , regards t
