I am 48 y/o and started the same day with a fellow student who is 23 y/o. I had no expectation that I would earn my belt the same time he did. However, I was more than happy to go at my old man pace. He earned his blue belt in 18 months. I did it in 28 months (about 2 months ago). My gym-mate is his on his way to purple soon and will likely get to brown before I make it to purple. He has time to compete more, train more, and his recovery time is much quicker. I am so happy for him but also I am focused on my goals and what I need to do as a man who will be in my 50's seeking to earn a purple belt. Anything after purple is by God's grace because I am defying time and the average data on physiology. So at my age, I don't train for the belts, I train for the love of the arts (I have black belts in two karate styles), to stay in shape, and to hopefully teach the next generation. As always Ryan, thanks for your knowledge, insight, and wisdom.
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. Having earned black belts in Karate in your younger years, you have a unique perspective that people coming in at your age but with no martial arts experience just don’t have. Congratulations on your blue belt!
Im in the same boat as you (same age, same belt) with the same mentality. I just show up, try to soak in as much as i can, try to connect some dots, and try to get better at something every day. Keep repeating that process in all aspects of life and I will be bond to be better than i was prior. I just need to listen to my body to know what moves I should do and not (inversions being some im not gonna do competitively) and know when i need to rest my body. The belt is a nice measure but not why I do it.
As a 63 year old, blue belt in both jiu jitsu, and judo, if your training for just belt promotion, you have the wrong mindset. My goal is black belt in both. But I don’t want some sympathy belt, if I don’t earn it I don’t want it. The training, rolling, learning, personnel growth, and comraderie is what it’s all about.
That's a huge thing in Jiu-jitsu, there are no real standards and rank is largely subjective. I'm a brown belt who has been training for 20 years. I can hang just fine with some black belts and I have been destroyed by some brown belts. I think it really comes down to this: If you have a good instructor with a respected linage and they promote you to a certain belt, in their eyes you earned it.
Someone else's theory on this was that black belt just means a person has maxed out their individual potential in jiu jitsu. I like that system better than it being an absolute level.
How do they medal women in olympic, and how do they medla paralimpic handicap athletes ? How do they medals seniors and all that...I dont think its should be an issue nowadays.
I dont think no merit based promotions are good long term. My son did TKD and outperformed some higher belts I get athletic ability but he didn't even block shots. This made me end after his period. I'll never be as fit as ppl my age and me capping g out is ok if I don't meet the requirement not a perception.
Ryan you know me, I’ve been training for 11 years now and after 4 years as a purple belt and a school owner feel that there are other aspects to being a black belt besides your performance on the mats. Just as some Black Belts are great instructors and suck at competition and vise versa, I’ve been blessed to have been able to be successful at both and at 53 now I rather be evaluated by my ability to teach not perform.
Professor Ryan - You’re suggesting that in order to be a legit black belt, you must be competitive against a prototypical black belt, but without describing your idea of a prototypical black belt, you cannot expect your audience to follow your point. Please explain the standards by which you gauge black belts so we can have a clearer understanding of your point.
The point of the video, is it’s a topic that will never really be resolved. The thought, is that ANYONE who exhibits the necessary skill levels to execute the concepts, will be in a position to “earn rank.” No matter the age or gender.
So if you live to be 78 years old and your physical skills decline does that mean you should be demoted to the level that you fight against a 30 year old black belt?
I was thinking exactly the same thing. There's also different skill levels at black belt. If your a black belt and get beaten by Roger Gracie (which most will) do you get demoted to brown? I get what he's saying but don't really agree. You can't compare a woman fire fighter to your 30,40, 50 + jiu-jitsu person. For one thing he's comparing saving someone's life with someone on a journey of self improvement. Isn't that what martial arts is about? Earning belts is a way of acknowledging that in my books. I'm a 52 year old brown belt and I've had trouble with the odd 20 year old purple belt, who also competes in MMA but on the whole I more than hold my own with the majority of youngsters I come up against. I'm confident of defending my self against almost anyone who has no jiu-jitsu. Can't say the same for alot of other 52 year olds.
This is a fair point and a good question. But ultimately I don't think it is persuasive. In this hypothetical scenario, a 78-year old Ryan Young is still a black belt and should not be demoted because even though his skills would have declined significantly by that time, he legitimately earned and demonstrated the mastery of jiu jitsu necessary to hold a black belt at one point in his jiu jitsu journey. That is completely different than a 60 year old who makes it to purple or brown, but because he started practicing BJJ late in life, his physical condition diminished before he had the ability to demonstrate black belt level mastery. It's easy to see a scenario where a black or brown belt gets to an age and condition in life where he or she will begin to struggle when rolling with younger, stronger (and lower ranked) people. Maybe even lose with increasing frequency. But they should not be demoted because we should respect the fact that they earned their rank. I will say with respect to the gender issue however, I don't agree with the idea that there should be a blanket rule against all women achieving black belt. Belts don't see gender. If a woman is a black belt, it will show (and yes even perhaps against male black belts). It may be more rare and a tougher challenge to achieve, but certainly not a conceptual impossibility.
Ryan, I have cerebral palsy and I’m 52. I recently started back at BJJ. I asked my instructor if I should put my white belt on. He said you earned your rank. We have to remember it’s not about the belt. It’s about what can you can get out of it. For me it’s the small victories. Example doing a move you couldn’t do before or modifying a move that works for me. My instructor says it makes him think of moves in different way and it makes him a better instructor.
I agree. My flexibility is limited in some areas due to being older and having had a hio replacement but my Sensei is always ready to show me a different way to do a technique or an alternate related technique that works for me when I ask him. This is the mark of an excellent, caring Sensei.
I am a 60 years old III stripe white belt. I earned every stripe. No free lunch.I train 4 x weekly. What gives me an advantage over the much younger guys is extreme mental toughness and perseverance. My back and neck are sore daily!
Kudos to you man. I'm closing in on 60 but only train 2x most weeks. The weeks I do manage 3x or 4x, and maybe roll at an open may are very satisfying, but I feel totally wrecked for a couple weeks after and dial it back for a while.
Why would you penalize an older BJJ practitioner who is technically proficient in BJJ techniques but can't keep up with someone half their age or much stronger than them? That's like judging a fish on its ability to climb a tree.
I respectfully disagree with the premise of the argument. The myth is that Helio Gracie was small and frail but learn to maximize leverage to make the techniques work for him. Supposedly he could not even go to school or do pushups. If that is the case that Gracie jiu jitsu is based on the capability of a small frail man then the physicality part of the formula shouldn't really be a factor at all. If someone can execute the techniques of the curriculum intelligently and fluently then they should be promoted. Of course someone in their forties on up will have less physicality than someone in their twenties. Of course someone that is small whether they be male or female will be at less imposing than someone tall and large. The purpose of Helio Gracie jujitsu is for the smaller weaker person to be able to defend themselves against a larger untrained person. That should be the measure of being awarded a belt. Of course at the higher ranks being able to teach and communicate that information and the perfection of curriculum techniques. Given how the standards of bell promotion have changed over the last few decades even Helio Gracie himself may not have been able to earn a black belt in many of his own children's schools.
I am a 43 year old woman, blue belt, and I disagree with the old notion of not allowing women to progress after purple. I personally don’t want to get my black belt unless I can tap out every person in my gym, or at least give any of the male black belts a hard time and not get submitted! If my physical limitations stop me at purple, then I would accept that. but there are plenty of women who kick ass, and deserve a black belt. I guarantee that the current leading female black belts in competition could stand their ground with most men in their weight class.
You have exactly the correct mindset! However, try to keep your expectations reasonable. Expecting to get your black belt only if you tap out every single person in the gym, might be a little unrealistic. It doesn’t take that to earn a black belt. It’s really a combination of factors, proficiency in the art being just one of them. Of course, it’s up to your professor what you are required to qualify with.
Unpopular opinion. I personally think with a performance-based art like Gracie JJ, the whole belt system should just be dispensed with. Just like in Muay Thai or Fencing. Practitioner, Athlete or Coach.
Ryan, Im usually in agreement with you but not this time. What if Im a 48 year old white belt or blue belt who has trained for 2 years, who doesnt have any character issues and beats everyone (blue, purple, brown belt) at my gym including all but 1 brown belt. Should I get the brown belt automatically, no of course not. But now if ive been training for 8 years and am now 56 years and my health isnt what it was , should I not be able to get my brown belt at that time because I cant beat a blue belt, again no. If A person is older and knows jiujitsu very well but you wont promote them because of physicality that isnt cool at all. He could be a great teacher and absolutely should get that black belt if he put the time and effort in to get it regardless of his physicality.
I don’t know man, I think you need to stress test some of your assumptions and criteria a bit more. It seems you are arguing that the limiting factor really is about physicality, strength, being able to “defend” that black belt. Well, if that’s true, a heavyweight gold medalist Olympic wrestler would automatically be a jiu jitsu black belt, right? An Olympiad at that skill level could wreck the average teaching black belt, without knowing a lick of jiu jitsu. Age also isn’t the limiting factor when it comes to your black belt. You don’t lose your belt when you hit fifty and get rolled by an up and coming monster. If you, science forbid, have a serious injury or illness that takes you out of the game permanently, you don’t lose your belt. Its more than just physical, more than just being able to dominate on the mats. There’s a blend of the physical and skill, but also knowledge, that combine to give the ranks meaning. I don’t know what the exact blend is, that’s above my pay grade, but I do know that there is a blend
Hi Ryan if you go and roll with a 23 year old black belt at a top school such as Atos or Art of Jiu Jitsu would keep the black belt level then ? everything is relative
I am a woman, not physically fit in traditional standards, and started BJJ at 52, and got 6 weeks into it, then covid hit. I'm 53 now and started up again, another 6 weeks. My biggest struggle is balance. I know i will continue to get better. And the others at the gym are very encouraging and don't treat me like I'm old, just new :)
Just an update: some police and fire department women complete the same physical fitness test as men. There is no change is the time requirement, course adjustment or dummy drag weight. I am current female police officer. I had to drag the same 175 dummy as the men with no adjustments. I’m 110 pounds . Btw I love your content.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Definition I found - Essentially, Boyd belt is an idea that for every 20 pounds someone has over you, they are assumed to be one belt higher. For instance, if you are a 160-pound blue belt and grapple with a 200-pound blue belt, the weight advantage they will have over you will be the same as having a brown belt over you. I have also heard this apply to age difference as well. I could not say how well this concept holds up. As a 51 year old blue belt I have often subbed other blue belts half my age that are heavier and stronger. I try very hard to focus on the principles and basics so that I don't have to rely on speed and strength as much. The school I'm at is very much merit based. You don't get promoted just for time put in. Will I make it to black belt? I don't know. In the end it's not important to me. I have a ton of fun with great people that are like a second family. Thanks for the great videos. A lot of them have been very helpful.
@@KamaJiuJitsu It is a concept of objectively looking at belt rankings base on physical attributes of opponents and how strength, weight, age etc can nullify skill. Look at Rener and Ryron talking about it to get a better and fuller explanation.
I'm 65 here and 41 years in another Martial art where when I was much younger was extremely competitive and won competitions against many different styles of Martial Arts but about a little over ayear ago I began training BJJ. I have no problem being a white belt as it's a different style, what I do have a problem with is the arrogance and ignorance I see that is prevalent in BJJ. It's a shame that so many do not respect knowledge when compared to muscle and speed. I am not looking for a handout for anything however if someones trains in BJJ for 10 to 15 years consistently in their old age, has the knowledge to show someone a technique and still can roll some then it is a shame just because of their physical ability to hold them back because of their age or gender. Fighting of any style is a chess game and without the knowledge of your tools you do not deserve a rank just because of your age or strength. One factor that plays in is the fact that the gym or competition has rules you have to go by when rolling. In real life , determination and knowledge with the ability to use technigues you aren't allowed to in competition or the gym. Using the system of only the young, fast, and strong survive to get their Black Belt is irrational because who are you going to compare that to? Using that grading one could say that only Olympic athelites, or say the top three or four Professional fighters in the World should be Black Belts. A Black Belt means you know what to do, how to do, and when to do in a given situation according to your ability. In a few years will BB level in BJJ be only given to those that can perform the fancy new modified flipping, jumping, and flying techniques that were NEVER used until the past few years? Of course the way it is now the longer you can keep someone at a lower rank regardless of thier ability and you have brainwashed them to accepting that because they aren't World class athletes then the more money you can milk out of them until they die. I've seen this in some other Martial Arts also but I also have seen the Mentality of the direction BJJ is taking that only Strong, fast, young without knowledge are promoted over people with better and more Knowledgable skills. Everyone talks about controlling ego and all I am seeing here is ego of youth. I sure hope you guys get it figured out as for me I'll just float along and learn everything I can to add to my tools I already know. Again I am 65, I have a severly screwed up back that should have surgery, I have had 4 shoulder repairs and should have a reverse replacement of one of them now, I just had a hip replacement, I have a broken wrist I probably should have fixed one day , and I have three vertebrae in my neck fused from a broken neck many years ago. I don't expect I will ever live long enough to achieve a BB in BJJ as I still have a shopping list of surgeries to go but I'll be damned if I am going to give up because you guys can't get your crap together and get over whatever prejudice and eliteism you have built up in your minds. Geeze reading some of these comments makes me realize it's not just a few styles of Martial arts that have problems but dang near every one of them. I'm truly not sure which is worse in this World any more ego or attitude. I guess as I get older I see the World in a different light, my car's prettier than your car so you aren't as good as me. Such a shame. Yeah, I know, blast away, I'm a lot older , weaker, and slower . But I'm still here. I also have an awesome place to train and awesome instructors who understand I have injuries so we try to figure out what an old crippled guy can do and I thank and respect them for it.😂😂😂😂😂😂
It's me again. 6 months later. My mindset has evolved once again. I can hang with purples. Even if still blue, the instructor has set the main major element for belt stripes and promotions: evolution, improvements. For each stripe or belt he awards, the word of improvements is cited several times. Better, he disregard how many times you can submit so and so. He observes the technical development. It's crazy how my technical skill set has skyrocketed. There is so much to say, I'll hold it right there. I just love to be captivated by BJJ, and admire the landscape rather then knowing when I'll get to a destination. My new moto is worth giving attention to: I can now technically maul, smash submit most white belts, technically guard pass and get dominant move on bottom vs my blue belt peers (no longer getting crush on bottom as opposed to 6 months ago), and can hang with purples and browns. I am a much better blue belt than expected 3, 6 or 12 months ago and this new schools has helped me to exploit and optimize my grappling game...Cause its really what it is, a game, or should I say: my 10 000 puzzle game to assemble.
I totally agree. Brazilian jujutsu belt system isn't about attendance alone. It tells everyone what you're capable of. It's contraversial but I also agree with Grand Master Helio grading woman no further than purple. It doesn't mean I have less respect for all woman that have been promoted past purple at all -- I also won't delude myself into believing woman physically are capable of more than men in most conditions involving jujutsu
IMO belt ranking system should be tied to skills required to pass, nothing else. If you can demonstrate that you can do lets say these nnn required skills in adequate level or even perfection (sparring might even be among these skills) then you can get the xyz -belt. Its highly irrelevant how old you are, what gender you are or even if you can beat somebody else in competition. Not even high level 10th dan masters can beat everybody in competition or even sparring every time, even less when they are old. I'll bet even I can beat 8/10 masters who are 105 years old or more even if I have zero training in their martial art. 😜
ok so why dont people get their belts taken away when they get older? is it a trophy then? Im 40. Say I bust my ass for 10 years and get my black belt at 50. But by 60 Im getting pretty fucked up and cant do 1/2 the moves anymore. I lose my belt? The reality is an older person may not be able to hit a move in sparring or a match, but do they know it? Can they demonstrate it in a flow roll? In a drill? That being said, even a blue belt is an enormous achievement and something anyone should be proud of.
It should all just be measured according to one's own physical potential. Why is that so hard?According to the viewpoint in this video, someone with a physical handicap is fundamentally glass ceiling'ed in BJJ.
Curious... do you then have different scales for small men and large men? and if not why not? A 140lb man might struggle to squat the same weight as a 250lb man?
How about just getting rid of belts like wrestling, boxing, Muay Thai, etc. Belts are meaningless in real life. What about small men? Are Heavy weight wrestlers automatically at least brown belts because they can and have beat black belts in MMA etc.? Do you lower the rank of persons once they are too old to actively compete anymore against younger people ? If a black belt loses to a purple belt, shouldn’t the purple belt get his black belt and the black belt lose his? Women judged against men in order to be a certain belt? Sorry, that’s all just ridiculous. Belts are ridiculous
Damn, its sad that you said that... Well, before i unsubscribe i will say one thing... All scientific studies on the effects of HRT in trans women athletes shiw that most measurable athletic advantages dissapear after 2 years of HRT except for long distancw running wich gets nuch lower by that time but seems to rake a bit longer to completly dissapear... Also, as someone who has trained with both cis and trans women... There is literally no difference after 2 years on hormones... But you wouldnt know because you didnt experience it... On the other hand, not a single trans woman is dominating any sport... Lia thomas won her gold with a time that wouldnt land her a third place in previous competitions were cis women competed... Fallon fox fought a cis woman who basically threw her arround like a ragdoll and the weight lifter who got into the olympics and didnt won was the first trans woman to be selected after years of many trans women not making it into the team...
Are there objective standards to judge by? For example, x percent of practitioners demonstrate a certain skill which places them in their belt standing. The participant must be proficient in sparring with the majority of opponents regardless of size. Perhaps that is not realistic and weight classes may be more appropriate.
Its subjective is the bottom line. If you are competing and doing well at your age /weight that is extra evidence that can be taken into consideration. I think if a person puts in the time and does well at their age weight, they should expect to be promoted. I would take my business elsewhere if my professor didn’t have that same mindset. Comparing a 24 year old practitioner to a 54 year old practitioner of similar experience level is still apples to oranges.
It never occurred to me I might be awarded any "little old man" version of a belt. I don't want one. Whatever belt I earn, I want it to be legit, with no reservations. I hesitated to set belt goals for myself when I started training about 1 year ago. I believe blue is achievable for me, and I would be ecstatic if I ever earned a purple belt. So far every purple belt I've rolled with has felt like a total ubber-ninja-badass to me. No, they don't totally smash me, but it feels like they could effortlessly do anything and stop me from doing anything if they wanted to. Blue belts still dominate me, but it feels like I'm making them work to do it.
you make a great point. when visiting other gyms, better to be "under" ranked, than "over" ranked. we've had several overranked individuals visit once, and never come back, even though we'd be a great fit for them as far as training and personally. i think that if they were more appropriately ranked from the get go, things may have ended up differently. and this was overranked taking into account size/age/years training... not matching an over ranked small old guy with an under ranked big young guy.
I think every black belt will get to the age where they can’t perform the technique on a younger person. I think accumulated knowledge should be a factor.
Well said. I’m 52 and it never entered my mind that I could get “old man credit” in Jiu Jitsu, Muay Thai or anything else that I attempt. If I can’t earn it then I don’t deserve it.
Yeah if you start learning at 100 yrs old you will not be able to perform the moves very well even at a basic level and therefore can never teach properly. On the other hand if Rickson lives til 100yrs he understands what needs to be done because he has already been there.
This is the reason I do not care about ranking systems. If I start teaching again, I will not use one. Good job pat is good enough. If they want a belt, go somewhere else.
This is an old conversation, I was hoping the jiu jitsu community was father long in its approach. Women, people with a diversity of abilities, and older adults need the tool of jiu jitsu way more than young athletic males in their prime, because they are at greatest risk within society, of being targeted by predators. Young athletic, healthy men in their prime have the lowest risk of harm within society, and will have the easiest time learning/applying the knowledge. The extra effort, determination and dedication required to learn and apply techniques is much more for a women, people of a diversity of abilities and older adults, then a young athletic male in his prime. Then belt need to be based on that person's knowledge of the techniques, and their ability to apply it, as adapted by their body's ability. It needs to have a student-centred approach. There should be higher expectations for a athletic male in his prime, compared to a grandmother in her 60's, a man with one leg, and a woman with MS. We need to have a student-centred approach, meeting people were we are at, so we can grow the sport, and provide those at the highest risk of harm in society with an inclusive welcoming sport.
I agree. But lemme ask you this… if it takes a certain level of strength, agility, mental fortitude, mental aptitude, physical abilities to achieve X (let’s say a purple belt in BJJ), why should the person that meets said requirements be held to a “higher” standard if that IS the standard? Or conversely, if one person meets all the above requirements and gets “X,” how do you reconcile someone NOT achieving those requirements getting the same X? How are you on affirmative action based on race or gender? Go or no go?
I started Jiu-Jitsu at age 62, now 66 with 16 Months blue belt. I train Jiu-Jitsu for Loving the art of the sport. I enjoy very much. Other than physical training, I spend a lot of time study and research. So far, I believe I had spend about 3500-4500hours on study and researches. I train 3 times a week/ 3x4Hours in Gym. All together I should have put in about 5000Hours for the art.
Black belt mastered the art, can effectively perform it and pass it to the others. By definition it means that this black belt person NO MATTER THE AGE OR GENDER is supposed to beat the majority of practicioners. Of course there will be occasions with competetive athletic purple belt beat black belt guys of age. But that it is not about BJJ. A young boxer will beat a retired boxer. That does not imply that the retired one LOST all of his skills. He just cannot participate in professional sport which require NOT ONLY skill.
According to this thinking, there should be an absolute standard for everyone to earn a belt. This seems to imply there should be an absolute standard to maintain that belt level. However, if that were true, then that would mean that as bjj students get older and lose physical abilities to maintain the belt they are at, they would be demoted to lower belts. But, this doesn’t happen, which implies that there is a knowledge factor to belt level, aside from the physical abilities.
Wrong. If you earn a college degree when you’re young, you keep it. If you earn a championship when you’re young, you keep the medal. If you earn a title when you’re young, you keep it. Michael Schumacher earned 7 world titles when he was young, he keeps them even though he can no longer walk, let alone drive a car today. If you earn a black belt when you’re young, you keep it. If you try anything at an advanced age that people typically earn when in their younger years, then… Well, you know the rest.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Actually, your college degree analogy might be better. Maybe getting a black belt at an older age is like getting an honorary college degree, which uses broader criteria to give that degree.
That’s a great example. The honorary college degree, I’ve always thought to be BS. Here’s the thing… 1) an honorary degree is usually given to a celebrity who hasn’t gone through the rigors to earn an actual degree from that university. Maybe he gave the college a significant amount of money or notoriety or used his personal influence to greatly help the university. Regular Degree holders who toiled through the curriculum and paid the money know it’s BS, too. If the honorary degree comes with “a parchment,” it is (likely) not worded the same as an ordinary degree, either, I’m thinking. 2) people who are candidates for a BB want to EARN a BJJ black belt; not be GIVEN a BB. 3) with earning a BB, comes the PRIVILEGE of representing the organization (or Professor) by opening their own independent academy teaching BJJ. 4) let’s say the professor wants to validate the student’s effort over the years with SOMETHING, but doesn’t feel he will teach/represent the art to its fullest potential, should he instead award a “consolation” black belt of sorts err, an “honorary” black(ish) belt? How does one do that in a way that’s acceptable and not an insult to the student AND to the other past, present, and future black belts who earned the black belt without “buying” it? I just ask because I know of a “black belt” who only took privates (never went through the grind training in group classes) from a BJJ red/white belt master who awarded purple belts to students who were far from ready to wear the belt?
I like wrestling as there are no belts. But let's just develop the concept further that belts matter. So what happens when the young buck who gets his black belt at 35 later turns 60+ and can't perform on the mat and loses now consistently to new blue bwlts. Do you take it away as they do not represent what a black belts stands for. Or does the black belt represent more than just rolling?
There is little evidence that trans have any real edge most of the time unless the transformation was very recent. I strongly believe that politics, in this case ones opinion of transexuals should be kept out of the video as to me it sounded like bigotry. I believe we should welcome ALL to the mats regardless of ethnic, orientation, economic, age, or any other classification as equals who merely want to train to get better and enjoy the sport. BJJ already is getting too political, no point in adding more political opinions. The opinions we should be concerned with is how to do a technique, not one's status.
So he’s saying u didn’t start as young as me and you can’t beat me u don’t deserve upper belts. I’m a 60yo blue, some nights i struggle w younger 2-4 stripe whites My 13 yo son whose a orange belt smokes most adult whites within 50lbs and most blues and some purples struggle w him Some nights i want to give my blue back yet my 13 yo can’t earn a blue for 3 more years! i was also a career 30 year firefighter paramedic and watched dozens of women incapable of the strenuous side of the job and made chief by the age of 35 when the average male chief was pushing 60. I’m not giving up jui jitsu till I absolutely have to and would rather roll wo a belt than have pious blk belt decide my ability is unworthy than excepting I put my heart, soul and body into making small strides than younger people take for granite.
“So he’s saying ‘u didn’t start as young as me and you can’t beat me u don’t deserve upper belts.’ “ Please cite the minute:second I said that. You’re a 60yr old blue belt who struggles some nights. So you’re saying no one else but you struggles. Gotcha. Your 13yr old is good and should be wearing a blue belt, but “the man” is keeping him down until he’s 16. Okaaaaay… So you’re also saying women are unqualified to be firefighters and get chief jobs at 35 that men have to wait until they’re 60 to get. Alright, so life is unfair, in your eyes. You could have just said life is unfair and left it at that. #RantersGottaRant I guess.
Great points made - if a practitioner should never be demoted (and I do agree with this), then I do also agree that standards should be accounted for based on age and gender. We recognize these differences in tournaments. A 50 year old purple belt who weights 150 pounds doesn't compete against a 25 year old purple belt who weighs 200 pounds. So, it just make sense that grading should be based on proficiency of technique as well as sparring ability. If we adhere to traditional standards, then a 50 year old sedentary woman may never go beyond blue. What if a black belt Judoka or collegiate wrestler started BJJ.. would they get their blue or purple belt after a few months of training because they can dominate rolls? I'd say no because they still haven't gotten high level of proficiency in BJJ.
What a horrible example about fireman requirement test. Many crossfit females out squats normal physical men and do more pushups. LOL. There is many female black belt competitors competing in IBJJF.
There are. But they aren’t competing against men, are they? If they competed in “open” categories, how many of them would be champions? Very very few. As far as CrossFit women vs men, same thing. Put the ave CrossFit male against the average CrossFit female and what happens? If we compare elite CF women against the average man, then your analogy might hold. Take the PEDs out of the elite CF women, and then what happens? As far as the fireman example, it holds.
This is absolute bullshyte….complete lack of circumspection. Based on this thinking …. When he gets too old he should give back his black belt cause it’s not real…..
its harder today to get a black belt than twenty years ago, as there are more competitors. more techniques to learn and more styles. the BJJ curriculum has changed so what you needed to do to become an BB years ago doesn't exist. The problem is there is no one curriculum to learn so you have no clear pathway. you get your BB when you can hang with Black belts that's what they always said! this is subjective. Bjj needs a central governing body like judo where you get your black belt. then you begin your journey.
It’s not harder to get a black belt today. I contend it’s actually easier, since there is no standard curriculum to learn, they just grade on “time on the mat.” Some schools do test on a curriculum. Most don’t, so more often than not, best advancement is arbitrary when it comes to the “body of knowledge.”
🤷♂️ I ad lib everything and have no pre-written script. So what comes out, comes out. I never intend to insult people. But if people get insulted by what I say or how I say it, whatever, that’s their prerogative.
So if a person earns a belt and can no longer demonstrate or perform like they once did should it be taken back? I know a couple of black belts who were once monsters but due to one reason or another just aren't anymore. They still have the knowledge but can't perform like they did. Knowledge and performance are two different things in my opinion. Just following the thought process to its end.
If he earned it, he can’t lose it. The point of the video, which some miss (including you, it seems), is warning it in the first place, not should it be taken away from you once you “age out” of training hard.
I'm almost 45. Been doing bjj a couple of months and I don't want a blue belt if I'm not being held to the same standard as a young man. If I never get it, I never get it.
So what about the mentally handicapped kid? I’ve met 4th degree black belts who Gave a Down syndrome kid a brown belt. Should he not have earned it ? He trained 8+ years constitently but is still really a white belt.
I feel that this is unfair as promotions should be based on an individual bring compared to his or her former performance when it is time to consider a promotion. There is no one size fits all for belts. People are different. Jiujitsu should treat all as equals and if u make the effort, learn the skills on the mat, learn to teach them, and similar when your sensei feels u deserve a promotion that should be adequate.
But a “black belt” is a black belt, is it not? What if you’re the person looking for a BJJ school to learn at but the black belt who owns the school is not on par with the average black belt because they were awarded the black belt based on your criteria above. Would that be fair to you if they charged you the same as the other black belt down the street, knowing nothing else? Well, he DID try his best, didn’t/couldn’t learn everything because he was physically unable to do the techniques BUT he did try really hard and showed up for classes all the time. He because best person HE could be, but doesn’t have the same acumen as others he learned with. I dunno. I’m just asking.
I mean a woman wearing a black belt is different than a man wearing a black belt because I can clearly see that one is a man and one is clearly a woman. Seems pretty backwards to say woman can't have the same delineation simply because they're women/not as strong. We're not trying to compare men to women in BJJ.
If someone received their black belt at age 30 and then 30 years later they can no longer perform at the black belt level, should they still be able to wear their black belt?
surely knowledge, technical understanding, mentoring and being a role model for a gym has value and earns a black belt over time. I don't believe age prevents grading otherwise people would be denoted or have to give up BJJ as they age. Surely having years in the mat (experience) and being able to pass that down to the next generation is one of the major roles of the black belt. I guess it all depends what the gym you attend values, if it's medals and competition then there is no longevity in that for anyone.
What if you start at 45 and at 55 you are at the same level of 55 years old black belt, but you can't pass the test because of your age. Also the 55 years old black belt couldn't pass the test he passed in his 20s or 30s.
There are a lot of contradictory examples you have laid out sir. Helio wasn't he "frail" and he got his red belt? Now if a older person starts Jiu jitsu along side a 20 year old he is not as strong or fast or as conditioned. Yet they attend the same amount of time. The elder knows the same technique and knows how to apply it. As well as the younger trainee. Now if the younger trainee beats the elder during rolling is the younger trainee a higher belt or just younger and more athletic? So now if that older gentleman has been training for 10 years diligently is he capable of applying his techniques at a black belt level? I am sure he can. Isn't BJJ/GJJ supposed to be all about technique? Not about brute strength or athletic ability. So do you think that if that older man or woman would roll with a newbie would he not out technique them? Or any average Joe. Your analogy of you going to the NBA and making it ? Really? That is a elite exclusive level. Maybe 350 humans make it to the NBA. That is way elite, you can find 300 black belts in L.A. F1 pilots there are only 20 in the world. Those sports are for the best of the best athletes. Like track and field etc etc. Jiu jitsu especially Gracie Jiu jitsu you know the self defense Jiu jitsu that you always mention to put down sport Jiu jitsu and Rave about Rickson it is not only for elite athletes. It's the contrary it is for the weak to be able to defend themselves. So when you mentioned that if an older guy gets a black belt being older he has trained for 10 years and you questioned is he really a black belt? Ok so if you roll with Roger, Marcelo García, Galvao, Rener, Ryron, Gordon Ryan etc etc . You get crushed so I ask you , are you really aBlack Belt?
I have to agree on all points Professor Ryan said. There’s no easy answer, but if you are middle aged (I’m 57, smallish 160lbs, 5 1/2 year BB) and you are “serious” I’ll be honest and say you really have to be fully absorbed in to this lifestyle, because it really is one. The constant thought and search for technical perfection, deep conceptual understanding, bio-mechanical leverage mastery, constant flexibility training, nutritional supplements, healthy eating, alcohol abstinence (I’m my case) S & C, and therapeutic self-care for structural wellness and continued high mobility has to become you. I can’t deliver the goods in the way the 37 year old tall, athletic and accomplished head instructor at my school can, but it’s my responsibility to be as much trouble as I can for everyone with minimal concessions for myself, because I’m not given breaks (nor would I want any). I personally would have been happy to remain a purple belt way back in my mid 40’s if I couldn’t physically do enough moves to expand my technicality or execute certain strategies. I believe however everybody type, complete with its own limitations can be uniquely tuned to develop a specific game that can be applied on just about anyone, but you need a creative, improvisational mindset.
I am a 51 yo white belt training 8 mos. got destroyed in my first tournament went up against early 30 yos as no one my age to compete against. My goal is not to achieve black belt but rather enjoy the journey and the art. I presume my career will end when I suffer an injury that will just sideline me forever. My goals are to be able to compete/roll with the other practitioners and hold my own and to continue to see improvement in myself. I would also like to compete in tournaments more but again only so long as I can compete and not embarrass myself or gym. As far as demoting a black belt you must keep in mind they at one time competed at that level and can still have the metal experience to pass on as well as the knowledge even if the body doesn't work as well. With this said please don't be the one to sideline me forever.
I am 57yrs old and I have just started judo. I completely agree that a black belt has to be earned..no exceptions. I agree with everything you say apart from one point. The problem is if a 90yr old has had a black belt for 40 yrs but keeps being beaten by purple belts do we say that this is an old man credit too or do we just respect his prior accomplishment. A black belt is a standard to reach and that in my view is non negotiable but over time the skill and strength level of everyone will diminish...then respect for knowledge kicks in. Judo deals with this synthesis in a very clever way. There is a black belt for fighting and there is a technical black belt. Many of the technical black belts are amazing and gifted teachers who make a significant contribution to the art. I feel this is a good balance. Really thought provoking video. Thank you.
Unfortunately bjj which claims to be an ego destroyer has the biggest ego. Do the Gracies include their steroid use? Bjj culture is all ego. I love it but its ego driven by most black belts. Why not include weight? There should be one world champion only! Lmao.... Its a sport get over the ego. They could just have two pathways like judo, tournament and kata but people are pretending bjj isn't Japanese jj. Again ego driven.
So someone who has a current ailment can’t get to black belt? Ihope your academy is more upfront on your expectations now having your experience with your older student you reference in your video.
People should be ranked on their ability to perform the techniques taught and ability to teach the techniques learned for their respective sizes. Remember, we are learning an art. Nobody can escape father time, so nobody should ever be demoted.
There's also the opposite problem. What if you hv an extreme world class athlete like Jon Jones, who's physical skill and athletic level is so high that even with little knowledge they beat higher belts. Is he really a purple, brown or black belt without the thorough knowledge. How much does technical knowledge play into it as much as ability in getting a Black Belt?
It just goes to show, that good grappling is simply good grappling. There is a ton of overlap between the grappling disciplines. But there are nuances between each art that differentiate one from another. But, since there are so many similarities, it would not take someone who is experienced in one art, to master another art.
If this is the thought process then maybe demotion should be a serious thing. Instead of getting extra degrees as black belts as you age and teach shouldn’t you be demoted and eventually not be a black belt anymore? There seems to be a flaw in this logic.
If Dave (Kama) tells me to wear I white belt again, I totally would. It’s not like I’ll forget what I know. The belt one wears certainly means something significant; the problem lies in those ranked individuals who identify their “person” by the belt they wear.
@@KamaJiuJitsu it’s an interesting question. If the belt represents knowledge/ technique/ and physicality does one not reach a promotion in belt rank without all three? If one of the three is lost over time due to say injury or age does that change the rank at all or should it? Or once attained does the belt represent an achievement of the past regardless of today’s situation. Obviously the inability to reach a belt rank due to age or injury is different than already reaching a rank and then aging. Should a belt rank represent the current level of the individual or should it be something to achieve and keep forever only gaining in degree/rank as you age.
Without a singular governing body, the color belt and stripe system is arbitrary. I really like the old system... White belt, Black belt, and Teacher. Everything in the middle just feeds the participation trophy culture that thrives in most martial arts.
When you earn your degree in college when you’re young… and then when you get old and can’t remember all you learned in school… Do you lose your college degree? Try harder than that. Now, let’s say you’re older and decide to back to college to earn the degree you never had time to earn, but remembering stuff in class is just too difficult, should you earn the degree anyway, because you showed up to class everyday?
I'm a 48 year old 4 stripe white belt. I like this way of viewing promotions. My goal is not necessarily to be a black belt (although it would be nice) it's just to enjoy training, Learn as much as I can and see where it takes me. If I don't get there then so be it but I won't stop training while ever I'm physically capable. I've just been promoted 2 stripes at once and I've an awful complex about whether I deserve to be a 4 stripe or not. But I have to trust my instructors that I'm ready. If I max out at blue or purple then I'm fine with that.
I belt based upon a set of flexible standards. I give adaptations of movements with choices. I have seen many moves done differently for different body types, ages, disabilities, and genders. In my opinion, the black belt will never be consistent for everyone because people are simply not the same. I think the job of the instructor is to just see the possible paths and help the student down the path.
So Jiu-Jitsu is flexible in it’s required concepts and skill sets? It’s not a fixed set of skills practitioners need to do (escape mount/seatbelt/cross side/side mount/seatbelt/knee on belly/guard/etc, execute chokes/joint locks/etc)? That’s what we’re presented with as a dilemma.
@@KamaJiuJitsu Flexible standards or flexibility within the required standards. Example: Pitchers can pitch a fastball, but not every pitcher has a great knuckleball, but yet they can be pitchers. Also, I think that the purple belt is the expert level of the BJJ technique and that the brown and black belt are the instructor/supervisory belts. Don't get me wrong the brown and black belt will be more efficient than a purple belt, but the teaching skills should really be enhanced. If a purple belt is made in a school through BJJ flexible standards and she is willing to teach then that person is able to be a black belt.
Gotcha. Speaking of pitchers, isn’t the ultimate goal of a success pitcher to strike out batters? To me, i strikeout is the equivalent of a submission.
You might not be a able to slam dunk a basketball, but there are many NBA players who can’t dunk either and are still considered professionals and valuable to the team. I think coaches should be more like talent scouts who look for different skill sets, not just the strong big man game. I think a lot coaches overlook the small weaker man/women/ handicap game. A game where a person can develop just off his/her back and still lockdown another black belt’s game. Because at a certain age the “get on top, stay on top” game can be tough and impossible as you get older.
I started late. I've excepted the fact there's a very real possibility I'll never get to black belt level. I'd rather "retire" or die at an earned purple belt level than a handed-out black belt.
So my thoughts are this, and by no means do they matter at all. Your belt and the color of it only cover ~2 inches of your back. The color of your belt matter but that should not be the reason you are going, studying and practicing Jiu Jitsu. I am 44 and have my blue belt. If I never advance in my belt color, I am personally ok with that, but if my Jiu jitsu never advances that will be what I would have a problem with. Stop worrying about the belt, worry about the Jiu Jitsu.
@@KamaJiuJitsu I agree that a champion for every age , skill level etc is silly. I suppose the absolute champion is regarded as the "real" champion , when 130lb guys start dominating the absolute division I will accept your ppint 100%
@@whoanellynelnel3874 Helio Gracie fought sport fights to promote BJJ all the time. So..what difference does it really make, the GJJ works in sport JJ and sport guys arent pulling xguard if they get in a street fight .
