How To Set & Explanation of Puch e50 Moped Timing with Will & Travis 

thanks for the video but I did it backwards now I can't see where I'm going because I'm in reverse always

An accurate adjustment of ignition timing obtains maximum power for this little motor. The procedure is similar ,tools are different. 1. To detect TDC have a watch comparator installed in a drilled sparking plug. Using the comparator mark 1mm before TDC on the flywheel/ case. 2. To detect opening of contact breaker connect an ohmeter instead of ignition coil, will indicate a variation when contact opens. 3. Also use thickness gauge for measuring contact breaker opening. Good luck !

Nice video!! Did you know that Puch has a timingmark on the flywheel, and where the crankcases meet together is the crankmark. I hope you understand what i meen because of tranlation problems. Keep it up!!

Very accurate explanations. Great job guys!

That's a totally different way of setting the timing than the way i learned (and still use): I'm using a vernier caliper, a set of feeler gages and a piece of tobacco rolling paper. First of all, you should turn the flywheel and determine when the contact points are at it's maximum opening. That space should be exactly 0.35mm. Any setting smaller than 0.25mm can cause short circuit, so the moped won't even start. Any wider setting than 0.50mm causes the points to take longer to close. At higher speeds, they can't make it in time, so the moped can shut off or at least have a loss in performance. (also the reason why extremely tuned engines with contact point ignition can suddenly shut off at high speeds, because at extreme speeds and rotations, the points will no longer open & close, but "float" somewhere in the middle, failing the condenser to load it's currency. In that case u will need so called "weighted contact points", or use a $200 electronic (racing) ignition system instead). Setting the points to 0.35 will certainly increase the performance and acceleration. When it's smaller or wider, you can unscrew the flathead screw on the contact points just a little, as too loose will make the contact points adjust themselves like the stator plate in the video. Then grab a somewhat bigger flathead and "twist" the contact points, making use of the notches on the contact points and the "mountain pass" that is positioned on the stator plate just above the contact point screw. You twist your hand (like you turn a key) to the right, so the contact-point-plate will turn to the left, thus decreasing the maximum opening, and turn your hand left to increase. With this setting correct, it can also solve the issue of "having an extremely retarded or advanced ignition." Now we can set the actual timing. I'm using a vernier caliper and use the depth pin on the rear to measure the ignition. So, slide the depth pin out for about 10 cm, and stick it in the spark plug hole. turn the flywheel to the right and let the piston push the depth meter back in. Make sure that the bottom of the caliper rests on the rim of the spark plug hole, as plumb as possible. Imagine you measure 20mm as being your TDC, then you should add 1mm pre-ignition (stock moped 50cc, fast 50cc's have 1.2mm, 70cc must have 1.4mm, very slow mopeds that won't go faster than 18 m/ph will do with 0.8mm). Note that less pre-ignition will (obviously) make the time between the spark and the TDC shorter, thus making the reaction faster, resulting in greater acceleration. But at higher speeds, that same setting can't cope with the faster moving piston, having trouble to keep up. Thats why you need more pre-ignition at top speed, giving the ignition more time to provide a spark for the ever faster returning piston. So this 1mm will be a good deal in the middle and most likely equal to the 17 degrees on the flywheel. And for the smart guys: setting the pre-ignition to 2.0mm won't work, i tried that, moped didn't go any faster and the noise that came from the block didn't sound healthy. So, add 1mm to whatever you measured (becomes e.g. 21mm) and lock this setting on the caliper, so it can't slide. Now i'm tearing a tobacco rolling paper in half (in length), and sticking it in between the contact points. Since it's so thin it makes an almost perfect idea about when the points start to open. Stick the caliper's end back in and turn the flywheel in the correct direction (for most moped it's to the right, but be sure to check the arrow, or , when there is no arrow, try to start the moped and you'll instantly see the direction it goes.). When you are about to reach the TDC (something you can feel), carefully let the piece of paper stick through the opening of the flywheel again (as it will flip in when u turn the flywheel). Now turn the wheel very slowly, if possible one degree at a time, your other hand still holding the caliper firmly and plumb on the rim. After each little turn carefully try to remove the paper. The ignition is spot-on when the piston ticks the caliper (you can clearly hear and feel it) and you being able to remove the paper. If you are able to remove it before you reach the caliper (TDC + 1 mm pre), then your ignition is too early, or advanced. when the paper is still stuck when u reach the caliper, then it is late, or retarded. In both cases u have to adjust the stator plate, like shown in this video. After that, check again until it actually is spot-on. The only catch with this technique is that to be accurate, you have to hold the caliper firmly in place, and in the middle so the measuring pin wil be on the center of the piston. Since modern pistons don't have a flat surface on top, it could happen that when u are out of center, you might get different readings, also when u move the caliper by accident while working on the ignition. But putting marks on the wheel is also more or less accurate, depending on how accurate you mark, what marker u are using, the quality and accuracy of the measuring tape, etc. (the construction store paper rulers are not very seriously and for global measuring imho, and tailor measuring tapes tend to stretch after a number of uses). If you have an analogue caliper and don't know exactly how to read it, here's a short video that will explain it: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FNdkYIVJ3Vc.html There are also special ignition clocks avaiable that you can screw in the spark plug hole, assuring the accuricy, but they are not very cheap. But if you are planning to do it a lot of times, it's way more convenient, since you have an extra hand avialable that way. At last, the gap between the spark plug points must be 0.45mm. Even brand new spark plugs straight from the package can be set wrong, so make sure it's 0.45. Too big gaps can also cause engine starting problems. So far my knowledge and experience about the subject of ignition, succes! Greetings from The Netherlands

there is another trick to setting timing if you what to know exactly when point open you make a tool out of a flash light take two wires tie them in to where flashlight switch goes and put two clips on each end when the clip touch light comes on put one clip on ground of coil and the other on wire from points (un plug from coil) when the light is on points are closed the moment the light goes out that exactly when it will spark mark it on fly wheel that where you timing is set another thing when you set gap you have to move points arm touching fly wheel that where most people make mistake

Great video once again Here in the UK we need more videos on the ZA engine please 👍

my puch e50 bogs down alot when running, it cannot accel or go up hills. carb is clean, will timing affect this?

When finding top dead center you make 2 marks where piston hits the stop, isnt TDC the middle between those 2 mark? Arent you Putting mark just beside 1 of the others?

Thanks for putting this together

TIP!! buy a second fly wheel and cut out the core that way you have more room to do the tyming on the engine tis is the correct way to time your engine but when using a piston stop you can time the engine by loosening the piston stop to veel when you can turn it al the way then tigthen it 2 turns and use the card board althoug it may still be to thik since the gap max should be 0.7 mm max! your on the mark when your plug is dry and coffee brown

Thank you so much! This video helped me more than anything else I've read so far about setting the ignition timing in my language. Everything is the same as on Tomos engine, only the magnetic wheel is turning in the other direction

So what the heck is the point of reference for the stator? You make all these accurate marks on the flywheel for adjusting the points, but when you adjust the timing you leave us in the dark about how we measure where to move the stator. Still a good video, but if someone could answer that'd be great.

WE NEED YOU!

I am astonished how amazing of a job you guys did explaining everything and showing everything

Very very very helpful. Thanks!

I’m helping a buddy with his 78 Puch Great job guys well done, simple 👍 Thank you

Great video...thanks! Is it worth upgrading to electronic ignition?

Hi again :D. I have finally done all the restoration work on my Ögland Swing and it's almost up and running now. I was driving it but finally the ignition coil gave up. I replaced it and now it works like it's supposed to work. I just wondered that is it normal that the electrics get so damn hot after a really short time that you really can't keep your hand on the cover more than three seconds. How much can those ignition coils even handle heat before they blow up? I just want to thank you for all your helpful videos which have helped me a lot in this over a year lasting restoration process which finally has come to its end. Thank you, and have a great 2016!

Thank You, this helped me setting the timing for my Maxi (first time!)..!

Ahhh! thanks for this. For some reason I knew you would have a video on this travis. I think I can speak for the rest of the moped noobs out there and say that your videos are perfect for people that are learning how to fix up an old bike, not just tweaking a performance bike so it'll go 60, well someday... haha I'll be doing this tomorrow on my 80 maxi. Thanks!

Man. I’m trying to fix this 77 puch maxi. Very annoying. I don’t know much. Please help!

After I set my points, my point gap didn't move. I moved the flywheel but it didn't open like the one in the video? I used a cereal box piece to set it, maybe it was too thin?

Thats rad, Travis! Thanks! I have a question: If I bought a CDI kit, would that eliminate the need to set timing? Or would I still have to set the timing even with a CDI kit? I was thinking of going that route mainly because it changes the voltage to 12v. What are your thoughts? Thanks in advance!

hay travis, thanks for your reply, i have fixed the problem. red wire went to the gray wire. Also i am proud to announce that i have just completed 1700 puchtastic miles since i used your engine rebuild tutorial. Without your videos my 1979 puch would have probably gone the same way as the dodo's. Your videos rock. Best wishes & kind regards Scott.

how far in did you screw in the piston stop? all the way in or just enough to hit the piston?

Could you make another video with less if’s and buts

I love your videos. You have to BEST instructional videos out there. And I've watched a lot of videos. But here is the problem..... I don't own a PUCH. I have a Peugeot 103. So I have a request. PLEASE GO BUY A PEUGEOT 103.( preferably a 78) It's not fair that all the PUCH owners get you all to themselves. We have tomahawk mopeds. And he is a master builder. But he is just to busy. And has to much on his plate. He makes good videos. But your style is more instructional. And easier to follow. So I beg you..... PLEASE FIND A 70s(78?) PEUGEOT 103. And help more of the moped guys and gals out. We need you too!!!!!

You can also use almost any bussiness card.

How do you know where to stop with the stator.

What if it doesnt move the ignition when i turn the piston in circle??

Hi Travis,. I have the ZA engine. Is the timing set in the same way please I'm getting desperate, as my bike still will not spark properly 👍Roy

Yeah i got that. I noticed when you first marked the flywheel with the line in the case. Then rotated ccw for the second mark, their was considerable distance between the two. On my e50 I've gotten to this point. My space between both lines on my flywheel are 10cm is that right? Seems really small compared to yours in the vid. Basically I'm trying to advance timing. I have a 50cc hi hi kit from treats that i running. It bogs at 3/4 throttle. When i slowly put it to wot it pans out but pops like back firing until i throttle again? Idk whats up

Is it the same for Puch Pony Express, if not, you can see how the platinum replacement works on that model, lp

Next time use a test light with a battery. You can clip to one side of the coil and leave the point of the test light in between the fins of the cylinder. When the points open, the light will turn off. You can make a test light with a bulb from your brakes and two wires, a AA battery, and some alligator clips. You can even tap into one of the brake lights with the bulb still installed in the moped. It's better than trying to eyeball it or use a cigarette paper. I never did it the way you're doing it. You're just guessing at it. Thanks for the content. Keep up the good work. בס'ד

In 1974 I was 14 and my Maxi Puch has a mark on magneto wheel, that aligned to crankshaft joint (3pm position) at TDC. My father one day punch a little mark on the border of crankshaft with a screwdriver and a hammer and said " when the mark on the wheel align to this, points must release an aluminum paper you put between. Adjust this aligning marks, loosing base screws and rotating the base until the paper looses, then tight screws." It was easy to do, if you turn the base with a screwdriver and pull gently the aluminum paper. I don't know if my father have done some calculations, but that mark always set the point perfectly.

I swapped to a 70 cc k star kit and ran great but it died amd now idk what the problem is

What size piston stop is that 10 or 14 mm

quick question... can i use a stator from a scooter on my moped? i have a 1977 garelli eureka flex. and it is missing a lot of parts. missing piston, stator and carb. still have fly wheel but the coil and whatever else was inside is gone. i have experiences with motorized bikes that are also 2 stroke but this is my first scooter restoration. any help would be greatly appreciated thanks

Hey man I have a peogeout 1978 and it turns off when I stop what can I do to fix that

I'm working on a puch maxi 2 hp not getting no spark at all to were the spark plug is at changed coil spark plug wire and cap and still did not get spark took it to shop and they say it's the main thing that sends spark to ignition coil do u kno Eny Web sites that sell them my lights and everything else work tho I just won't to change copper that sit on top under flywheel

Hey Travis. Have you bought yourself that Peugeot yet? We're waiting for it to happen. It has to happen!!! PLEASE!!!!

I have the same flywheel and stator. My bike is supposed to be 2 mm before top dead center. With the state returned all the way to the right I'm at 10 mm before top dead center. What do I do there's no more adjustment

Can you please explain as to why when you were finding TDC, you found TDC marked it and then turned over the other way back to TDC then marked it again? Wouldn’t those 2 TDC points be the same?

this is a great video to let people know how to time the little 50cc motors....

3:20! I got lost cause there was already 3 marks when I only seen you mark two?

Where does the spark plug go to i have a puch and i dont know where to put the cord in

When I set my gap And I take out the feeler gauge it's snaps right back into place. And when I turn my flywheel it doesn't open and close so why is that

Top easy to understand information, i could imagine that this could be best used with minimum tool's in a get's you home situation. Thank you.

hi there travis, its Scott from the Uk again, i have a silly question, a red wire has come lose from my wiring block & fot the life of me i can't remember what part of the block its come lose from. from the stater i have a black, yellow, green & red wire, i guess the red is for the back light, what wire should it marry up to? thanks Scott

Yep i had my maxi going backwards when i was 17, oddly it ticked over better lol :-) I used to set my points to 15thou and the book said 16-18mm around the flywheel with a dress makers tape. To aid points detection, a 6 volt bulb connected to the points and a battery to chassis gave a slight brightness change when the points were closed. You may have wanted to remind your viewers that the petrol/air mix does not ignite fully for a split second after the spark, early b.t.d.c :-)

Will this be the same for a Puch ds50

So there was backfire coming out of my airfilter, can this be because it Sparks too early?

Hey Travis tutorial! I need to replace the points in my Batavus starflite but I don't have a flywheel puller. Is there a trick to removing the flywheel without a puller or should just go ahead and invest in the tool?

HI , The wood rough key seems very small how do you insure your lined up when putting flywheel back on ?

Travis, Thanks for the video; I have a 1980 Malaguti commuter here. I fear the timing and points are off, and I say I fear because I can't locate a flywheel puller for this BOSCH flywheel. the Franco Marini MO1 engine manual says Z14-0501. 1. Do you know the 16mm center bolt? Is it reverse thread? 2. I have a strap wrench here; but could use a spanner wrench, # Z14-0506; maybe you can advise me here on how to get this flywheel off properly?

will off timing cause no idle? I installed a new carb. and have to hold down the throttle so it wont stale.

So my points begin to open about 6mm before my 2mm BTDC mark... I have tried moving the stator but can not get my points to open at my mark.. =[

I like your cut g

Honestly I've been terrified of timing since I've been into mopeds. This makes is so simple..... I fucking love you guys.

i remeber this job was always a pain in the a## and you where always at the limmit of the settin

i remeber this job was always a pain in the a## and you where always at the limmit of the settin

Timing still needs to be set with a CDI, it's the same basic principle as in this video.

Travis, I am seeing the points close when it gets to 17 degrees not opening. I have an e50. I wrote the degrees on the right side of the flywheel after tdc. That's correct right?

Hey Travis and Will! Have you ever had a bike that you couldn't advance the stater enough to get the timing into an acceptable range? My stock 78 maxi is too advanced no matter how far I adjust - 20 or even 30* before TDC. Some people say dremel it out, but I'm hesitant to do that, especially since I don't have a powerful one yet. :3

That engine does not turn clockwise

Oh wait, nevermind. I thought you were using the piston stop to find TDC. Nevermind.

Hello, i know this is an old post, but when you marked the piston stop on both sides, then measured the distance between. Did you then mark on the flywheel the distance between the two measurements. It looks like the left mark and the TDC mark are exactly the same. Not sure i follow the measuring and dividing part if the mark ends ups so close to the left side mark. What did i miss?

I just put a 70cc kit on my pinto and ive been meaning to set the timing.

@3:13 "Measure to find the halfway point between these two marks" My question is: which halfway point? Like, is he measuring the shorter distance or the longer distance? Thank you so much for this video, I have a Puch Maxi Luxe 2 with no spark, and it's tremendously helpful to see a video that's not 240p haha!

Use a pencil with an eraser to check for tdc.

Or u can take 4 bolts off head and be very sure

I was told that my 78 moped Peugeot would not run with external condenser and factory points and magneto. Well I out a external condenser and it runs great

So let's say I set my timing at 16 degrees, are the points supposed to start opening or closing at this point?

Good vid. You know, my flywheel had no marks, so I found TDC and went with it. Good to know I was right and you can actually mark TDC wherever you want.. Thanks guys.

can you show a before and after running characteristics of this bike with timing changes?

I dont understand your measuring with the tape? I followed your vid but for some reason its not working?

Can you set the timing, the same way, on a puch maxi 2 g??

This was verry fantastict explanation ,now i will try it....

THANK YOU SOOOO MUCH TRAVIS!!! You have helped me more than you know my almost a year puch project is nearing the end. Thank you

Wow I Finally understand timing! Question: I bought a used maxi, then put a new tuned exhaust, airfilter, larger carb, and up jetted. Should I check the timing, and still do it to 16 or 17 degrees? Thanks

My TDC is the same in both directions??

Thanks for the video! I just restored my Sachs and this was the last thing I needed!

Thank you Travis, if the weather holds out today ill take a test run

As cheesy as it is, it’s a good video.

God this looks hard

Great video, thanks. Puch is awesome

5:33!

nice hit on 2:58.. you dodo,s !

Great tutorial! Thanks alot.

Dude love all your vids man , i dint know anything about moped towhere now i was able to fix one i bought online ,,, thanks alot Travis keep up the nice work

THANK YOU SO MUCH! Man, your videos are the best.

great video - thanks

nice tutorial guys, thank you!

Hey Travis and Will! Do you know or could you explain that in my 1959 Ögland Swing there are two marks on the flywheel like machined in. And one of them is a letter M and the other on is a letter O. Could either one of those be the top dead center mark like made in the factory for it?

so helpful, thanks a lot!

thanks guys, you helped me so much :)

I don't understand the part where you find TDC?

Thank you so much Travis!

Or a Chex Mix Box....