Every week you step in the role of my Mentor/Teacher and give me more information then I can take in on one view. As a beginner over the last year I have truly come along way because of your clear information. You are much appreciated.
My mill is a DoAll 200V variable speed with a 9 x 49 inch table. I'm the original owner having purchased in new in the mid-eighties. At the time, it was a better machine than the Textron Bridgeports and it's served me well over the years. Glad you are enjoying the videos. Tom
Really great video!!! Love the hardinge HLVH in the background!!!!! Ran those lathes for over 50+ years. Ran all of hardinges equipment, hlvh, dv59’s chuckers, milling machines, and last lathe I obtained was hlvh-e/m. I think they make absolutely the best equipment in America!!!!!! Never had a machine down in all those years!!!! Cutting threads on the hlvh really spoils you for cutting threads on any other engine lathe.
Thank you very much for this demonstration. I was so stupid to indicate the cutter at each side instead of rotating the workpiece in the vice. What I like most about your videos is that you show how to make something good AND fast. It is always very frustrating when I spend all night in the shop and get only 10% of the work that I wanted to do actually done.
Lol, hence the "Common sense machining" tag on my website. It's the little tricks that I've learned from spending a lifetime in machining that I'm trying to share with others. Glad you liked the demo and thanks for watching. Tom
I'd like to see a video of you using the corner rounding end mill in the lathe as you hinted at in this video. Thanks for your videos. Very informative.
Tom, Thank you so much for taking your time to make, edit & post these videos. They are so helpful to those of us who have the equipment & need help with the techniques. Thanks Again & Best Regards, Jon
I am a hobbiest with a Smithy. This video and others you have done have taught me so much! Thank you! I couldn't use those bits before this, your tips are excellent!
Thanks for the tips on using these. A point about the filing near the end - instead of rocking the file forward (away from you) over the sharp edge, start on the back side and rock the file back towards you. It feels weird at the start but only a tiny bit of practice to get the feel of it and you will find it’s far easier to make a very nice filed radius. Cheers, al
Once I get my life back in order with this retirement thing, I'll crank out some more videos. Right now I'm whittling away at a huge honey do list. :) Tom
I'm glad you subscribed as well. I could never get used to the minus Y thing, so I always picked up the front left corner of the part for CNC. Like anything else, just use what works for you. Tom
Thanks for this video. Had to make about 2000 parts last summer which had two edges rounded. Had a devil of a time trying to align the cutter with the work.
Tom, You know I have followed you from the first video, And for a while I have been thinking of asking you to make a segment of movie on the correct use of "T" slot cutters and cutting. I have done quite a few jobs recently, and kind of fumbled my way through. So I believe being shown the correct way will not only aid me and others in the long run, But also dispel any bad habits I and others had taught ourselves... Thanks in advance Tom. Regards Matt
LOL, EVERYONE'S A CRITIC, I'm just grateful that Tom, Abom, Mr.Pete, and these other guys take time to make these videos. Truly! a blessing to me.... I just bought a lathe, and first time I tried to thread, the threads were spot on, thanks to these guys. I'm very grateful to them for their time.....
This is a really fantastic video that demonstrates the core essentials of using Corner Rounders! Would you mind if we referenced it on our new website?
Thanks and I wouldn't mind at all. The more viewers you send my way, the better. You may want to mention my website as well, tomstechniques.com. Thanks Tom
I have visited your site. And it just gave me an idea to suggest to both of you. If you manufacture this tolls and if Tom presents tutorial on using, if you give Tom some tools for his milling machine hen could use it as example and make some good propaganda since most of his viewers are from this area.. Just a suggestion. I hope I am not been silly. But give Tom a whole set of this tools so he can show us his viwers.
I like the idea of having my stop located on the vise itself, keeps the table clear and stays with the vise if you have to move it for whatever reason.
Thanks Scott. There isn't much to using one on the lathe, but I guess I could throw together a short video on it. Basically you just use one flute of the cutter as a form tool and pick up the corner of the part just like on the mill. The difference is the part is rotating and the cutter is stationary. I'll see what I have going tonight and maybe I can squeeze one in. Tom
There is a lot of chip thinning involved in corner rounding, so ideally you want to feed equal amounts of x or y and z(in other words feed diagonally). Oh and yeah the climb mill part is also very important. If you feed it only on one axis and conventional mill it you have a double chip thinning at the edge that didn't get fed and it will look like a beaver chewed the radius, plus it will dull your tool in a pinch. Nice demonstration though and we are all thankful(don't mind the bad habit comments, we all have our way around our machines and our machines have their way around us :)
PS: I like that you use the rear jaw as a reference for all the passes. This way it makes more sense to just flip the part around instead of resetting the mill around the part like I have previously done (I focused too much on HOLDING the part in one setup instead of MILLING the part in one setup).
Hi mister, first of all i want to say that i'm not from a country that speak english so i want to apologize for my bad english skills. I'm a college student i'm doing a project in manufacturing technology class. And your video has help me a lots in my project. Thanks for helping me. At the end of the course, i have to submit my essay about this mill to my teacher. And i wonder if you can help me about the specifications of the mill and the machine, the requirement of the material surface,... that you using in this clip. I'm very admire your work. I look forward to hearing from you.
Sorry it took so long to answer your question but I have been on vacation and didn't have access to RU-vid comments. Hopefully you got what you needed through Facebook. Tom
Thanks Dave. Deciding to extend or retract the quill when milling is actually more of a common sense thing. Yes there are times when the quill should be retracted for a cut, such as when taking heavy cuts on steel. But it also saves a lot of time to leave the quill extended when taking light cuts, rather tha crank the knee up or down. In short, never say never when referring to a machining practice.
Nice demonstration on a quick way to mill a nice round corner. I enjoy watching your videos. For me personaly I have an other way to use a corner rounding end mill. If you have a quality tool you can zero Z-axis with the bottom of the tool on the top surface of your product (with the quill it's very fast). Then you lower your tool (or raise the table) the same amount as the radius of the corner rounding. For the side first I zero the fixed jaw, which usually is zero for me or I know the coordinates of the edges already. The distance you need to move the mill away from the product = outer radius of the mill - radius of the corner rounding. Ofcourse as you point out you move the Z just a little less and the side a little more. I hope I make sense (no English speaker), it's just another approach to the same goal.
tjeerd russch Thanks. I'm not sure where you are from, but corner rounding cutters around here aren't made that way. There is a significant flat area outside of and tangent to the radius in each direction, so setting up as you describe would not produce a full radius. By doing as I show in the video, there is no doubt as to when the cutter is tangent to the faces of the part, regardless of the make or quality of the cutter. Thank for watching. Tom
Hi Tom, Thanks for all the great tips. I've learned alot from you. I'm surprized that you lay your tools and parts right on the ways of your mill. My shop teacher would have killed us for that. He showed us how to make plywood covers for our ways. Is that a good idea or wasted time? Thanks, Kevin.
Do you mean the table Kevin? I've seen tool organizers used before that fit into the T-slots and they are probably a good idea in theory, but I've always thought that they would get in the way and be more trouble than they are worth. Nothing wrong with trying it out though, maybe you would like them. Thanks for watching. Tom
Tom I like this Correct me if I’m wrong but these cutters could save a lot of time. Avoiding setting up a rotary table with a 4 jaw chuck etc trying to round corners on a rectangular stock. I’m sure you could use the lathe but I think we can all agree on dialing in a 4 jaw chuck is a pain.
I notice a lot of your videos are with the spindle extended to the work. Is this for demonstration purposes, or simply because your spindle is thicker than my thigh? I've thought its best to bring the knee up to the spindle. You have done amazing work with these videos. You are a tremendous resource to those of us starting out! I can't thank you enough!
+Damien Gregory I only retract the quill when I need the extra rigidity for heavy cuts. It's a more efficient use of time than cranking the knee up and down unnecessarily. Of course you may not have that luxury on a lighter mill. Tom
I've been a Machinist/model-maker for 40 years and it amaises me how many people side mill with the quill extended. You should never side mill with the quill extended. the more it is extended the less support it has which results in pre mature ware and chatter on your part. That is the way I was taught in my voc. school and it makes perfect sense to me.
That makes sense if you are taking a heavy cut David, but on a light application like this it makes little difference. I'd rather spend the time cutting metal than cranking the knee up and down. You'll notice that I was taking a full depth cut with no chatter at all. If the part had been steel, I probably would have been cranking. Tom
Why would you need to crank the knee (or the quill) up and down for this? Keep the same adjustment without moving anything, except the cutting movement of course.Very nice video. :-)RegardsR.
I do have a DRO, but it doesn't help in this case. Once the two faces of the part are picked up with it against the solid jaw of the vise and the dials or stops set to zero, backlash doesn't come into play. In the video, I raise the tool with the quill to get it clear of the part and then return it against the quill stop. If your mill doesn't have a quill, you can leave Y locked and remove the part to return the cutter, or back off the Y or Z axis and then return it to zero with your dials. Tom
Hi Tom! Pretty impressive. I can see where tjeerd is going. Where we come from, there is at least three different( which I know of) types of corner rounders in use; reached, flared and standard, non flared. The most common one is non-flared one. You read( or better yet measure) the OD of the cutter double check the radii with radii gauge and measure the inner diameter of the cutter. Inner diameter and two radii should add to outside diameter of the cutter. If you have the digital readout on your mill the rest is quite simple. Obviously, where you came from, the reached model is the one mostly used. That would explain your technique. I like to use flared ones the most - if I can get them for a decent price - those have small angle (about 5°) ground in at the both ends of the radius - you never get the line on the parts using those...OSG, KEO and, I think, Latrobe use to make those. Now, I believe, there is only Harvey and they are insanely expensive... Thank you for your videos - the are excellent!
It's worth pointing out that, since the part has a square cross section from the POV of the camera, you didn't need to "touch and back off" on subsequent passes. Oh, and nice Hardinge lathe in the background.
Not sure I understand your point. I only touched and backed off on the first pass. Yes, the Hardinge is my pride and joy. I purchased it new in the mid 80's and it has served me well over the years. Thanks for watching, Tom
Hi Tom.....It is really a good tips and demonstration. It is really an artistic job to work on the milling machine. However i am a beginner, though i have some idea. But i have not worked on milling machine. I just want to learn to operate. Is there any baby milling machine available for beginners? And if so,what will be approximate cost? Please let me know.
Anyone ever tell you your voice on this video sounds like Norm McDonald? Nice technique. I have a different process for setting them up, but more complicated.
Hi Tom, does the standard CSx4/D formula apply for corner rounding end mills? I'll be using a 1/4" and 1/8" on an aluminum project very soon. Let me know, thanks.
Hi Tom. Do you deliberately make your pass on the trailing edge? Normally I would feed the other way on the leading edge of the cutter for a cleaner cut.
Swansong18 If you mean do I intentionally climb mill, the answer is yes. Climb milling produces a much better finish than conventional milling. You do need to be careful when climb milling on light machinery because the cutter may grab. There it would be better to conventional mill to remove stock and climb mill for a good finish. Tom
Good info, but swapping work in the vise with the machine running is one of those things that's only OK until it's not. You appear to still have all 10 digits, so you're lucky.
Not lucky, experienced. When you work with machinery on a daily basis, for as long as I have (45 years), you develop a sense of what you can get away with without getting hurt. One of the most difficult things about making these videos is filtering that sort of thing out so novices don't get the wrong idea of what is safe and what is not. Thanks for pointing that potentially dangerous practice. It certainly is not acceptable practice for a novice machinist. Tom
Once again, thanks Tom! I keep leaving an edge on the top face when trying to use the corner rounding endmill. Does the radius have to be the entire endmill radius? Only reason I ask is because on some applications I'd like to have a small radius rather than a chamfer.
Sorry David, but none of my cutters are like that. Most are around .05" greater than the radius and vary from cutter to cutter depending on size. I suppose it's possible that some are made that way, but I have never come across any. Tom
Hi Tom.....nice video with a lot of common sense . Q: Do you think is a good idea to work with a pair of springs between the parallels to keep stability on them ?. Thanks and greetings from Texas !!
The axis of the corner rounding end mill has to be parallel to the side, or perpendicular to the top of the part. The only way to make them work off angle would be to tilt the head of the mill. It's normally a better option to orient the part to the end mill rather than the other way around.
That depends on the size of the radius and the rigidity of your mill. I can do one pass with mine up to 1/4"R on steel, but larger radii require several. The rpm of any cutter depends on the diameter of the cutter, not the radius. Measure the OD and use 4XCS/DIA to calculate the rpm. There is a chart on my website that lists the cutting speeds for various metals. Tom
Am I wrong or isnt that tool called a "countersink"? It appears to be quite similiar. (sorry if you explained it in the video but I dont have headphones and im at school).
Yeah, you're wrong. ;) A countersink is an end cutting tool used to make a cone shaped cut in the start of a hole, so a flat head screw will sit flush with the surface. They are available in various angles, normally 90º for metric screws and 82º or 100º for imperial screws. They can also be used to deburr a hole or in a pinch, mill an angle on the corner of a part. A corner rounding end mill, like I'm using in the video is a side cutting tool used to mill an external radius on the corner of a part. Thanks for asking (and watching). Tom
Glen, It depends on the size of the radius. On my mill, a large one like a 3/4" would require a couple of cuts, but a 1/8" or 1/4" would only take one. Of course that is on my mill, a lighter mill would require more cuts. You have to know the capability of your machine to decide. Tom
Thanks Tom, I have a similar sized machine. Jut acquired a set of corner rounding mills a while back and only used them once so far. Will use your advice next time around.
The same as with any end mill; 4 x cutting speed (surface feet per minute) / diameter. You can't really go too fast on aluminum and other non-ferrous metals. The limiting factor on aluminum is when it starts sticking to the cutter.
Im from hong kong, actually I have a friend who manufacture and supplies CNC machine tools around europe and US and I was thinking that if you are interested in his business that would be great.
You led me to believe that you were looking for a supplier. Now I find out that you are just promoting a friends business? That is not what RU-vid is for.
Sadley, I have not found any files that cut as well as the old U.S. made Nicholson's. Grob used to make good ones, but even those are now made in India. I have read that dull files can be resharpened a couple of times by etching them in a 10% solution of sulfuric acid, but I haven't tried it. Maybe those old Nicholson's have some life left in them?
416 is one of the free machining stainless steels. It has the same cutting speed as mild steel with a machinability rating of 85%. Treat it the same as mild steel and you should be fine. Just be sure to use cutting oil on the radius cutter because of the added friction.
Not sure what you have, but a lot of the Chinese knock off vises have this problem. Kurt AngleLock vises have a wedge feature that pulls the movable jaw down when tightened. If yours doesn't have this feature, all you can do is attempt to reduce the vertical play in the movable jaw, so it doesn't lift so much when tightened.
