After meeting him twice, Chris Via is my favorite pro to learn anything from. Such a nice calm demeanor but with enthusiasm and knowledge of the sport. Definitely a class act.
I'm glad to finally hear someone call a shorter pin to center of grip distance a 2H equivalent of a pin down layout. I've been saying that for a long while, and always get "2H bowlers can't use a pin down layout". It's not the pin location that's pin down, it the VAL angle, and a short pin to cog is a big VAL angle... so it will be a pin down ball reaction, even if the pin isn't actually below the fingers. I have a Hustle USA with 5.5 x 5.5 x 1, and it is super smooth pin down reaction shape. I have trouble with anything where the pin to cog is too long though, 4-5" distances are just way too over under for me. I tend to stick to 5x5x1 for control, and 5x5x2 or 3 for more shape on the back end.
Chris is awesome. I went in with some noobie questions and after hearing me out he picked out a perfect fit for me. Finally was able to be competitive on some lanes I’ve always struggled with!
Hi Chris, met you a few years back at the first Kegel 2 handed camp for coaches and players. I came with Tristan Crawford who is now bowling with Milligan U at Tennessee. I converted to 2 handed as a senior player last year and have enjoyed the journey of coaching and competing with the new style. My PAP is similar to yours .... 5 3/8 over and 2 3/8 down. My speed is slow at 14-15 mph off my hand, but I like my ball motion through the pins. I use a 5 1/4 PIN to PAP and 0 PIN to center of grip in SYMs ... puts the PIN in my ring finger. Haven't experimented yet with ASYMs. I recommend you try a 0 PIN to center of grip (in ring finger) on a medium Sym like possibly the IQ Tour. Your speed would have to be slower (est 17-18 off hand) so this would be an option for flat patterns later in the block when you are in front of the ball return. It may allow you easy length with still strong recovery and good motion through the pins. I think its worth testing. My 14 lb ball hits like a truck. Good luck to you and Michael with the upcoming start of the PBA season. Love watching you guys in action!
Excellent content. I've been getting lots of questions on this very subject and there isn't much information out on it. Well unless you go to a class and I don't have time for that 😅
Thanks for the video just got a Summit thinking of going with a 4 x 4 x 2 layout. Haven’t use this layout before. What would I expect with this layout thanks.
Hello Chris, If you were going to layout the new Rattler NU to throw on a typical house shot with the out of the box finish to play up the lanes what you suggest for a rev dominant player? Thanks in advance.
This is the most easily understandable video of the layout system I have ever seen in such a small time frame. I just have a question on what the final layout numbers on the proton physix and the fate is after drawing those lines. Since the 2ls layout is usually a finalized 3 number layout such as 5.5 x 5 x 2 or 5 x 4 x 3.5, I was just wondering which of the 5 numbers in the system is used for those 3 numbers?
Beautiful work ‼️.. but it sucks cus pro shops don’t care about stuff like this . Just be drillin lol and get then mad when we ask for different layout and stuff we see on RU-vid
Thanks Chris for sharing your thoughts on 2LS layouts. The video was really informative. I like the new direction that this channel is taking!!! I do have one question on the PIN to PAP, flat portion of that bell curve. Would a distance that is close to 0 create the same ball motion as a distance close to 6.75? In other words, would a 2" PIN to PAP be the same as a 4.75"? Thanks again...well done video.
Glad you're liking the new content! 0 and 6.75 is basically turning the core from are flat/sideways position (0) to a vertical standing position (6.75). Even though both will drastically reduce the flare that the ball can create, the 6.75 will yield a higher rg after drilling which will make the ball take longer to transition. 2 and 4.75 will be a more noticeable difference for sure. Think of it this way, lower side of the bell curve (lower than 3.375) will create a lower rg after drilling. Higher side of the bell curve (higher than 3.375) will create a higher rg after drilling. Higher rg balls have an easier time retaining energy and change directions a bit quicker off the spot. So even though they may be the same distance from the top of the bell curve does not mean that they will react the same. Hope this clarifies it!
@@tvbowlingsupply OK, I understand now. Thanks for the clarification!!! With the knowledge obtained from this video, I'm going to start tweaking my 2LS layouts. Awesome job, guys!
My proshop guy told me that as a 2 hander my track will always be over the finger holes and there's nothing I can do about it short of changing my throw? Do I need to find a new proshop? Thanks for your guys help!
There is only so much you can do to change your track with drillings. By no means do you have to change from 2 handed bowling, but there may be something with your technique that is causing the ball to track over the fingers. Typically when I see this, the bowler isn't keeping their hand underneath the ball long enough and their hand is coming around the side and over the top at release.
@tvbowlingsupply thank you very much, that definitely sounds like my type of throw, around the ball like that so I'll keep on working on staying underneath my release. He never even asked what my PAP is or offered to find it either so that's why I'm questioning my proshop now as well. Much appreciated gentleman, keep up the good content 👌
As a full roll two hander with no tilt, I did an inverted layout on my new asym (Radical Innovator). My PSO emailed Radical to confirm as well. ⚡️no more track between the fingers. Also, if I go up the back, the ball goes dead straight, which I’ve never been able to do before. Not sure if this works on a symmetrical ball though. Look up some of the Mo Pinel (🪦💔) videos on no thumb layouts and performance pitch adjustments.
Chris, I bought an Axiom used and re-engineered my layout based on my PAP. With the holes already in the ball, the layout is 3 3/4 x 3 3/4 x 2. What can I expect from this type of layout? I’m left handed as well and never really open my angles: very rare for me to stand past 30.
That's going to be a very strong layout. The shape will obviously be depending on the type of ball, but it will have the ball really close to its max potential.
No offense to the good PSOs out there. But the two bowling alleys I go to the Pro shop operators could care less about doing your ball right? They don't care about PAP. They just want to stick two holes or three if you have a thumb in the ball and call it a day. They moved fingers up or down depending on if you want stronger a weaker really generic quality of service. At both the shops and I'm in Sacramento for reference. When I asked them to measure my PAP and do a proper layout they get pissed off. The one at AMF in Sacramento actually said he wanted to punch me and I just left because I didn't want to knock him out and I decided that I'm going to do my own balls. So this is why I do my research now because I'm not going to pay a bunch of money for someone to mess up my balls and give me attitude about it. I appreciate the help. Chris, I'm just trying to be a sponge now and learn how to do everything myself. I know a lot of you out there have or are great PSOs and that's a great thing to have, but if you don't have one you have to take it in your own hands like me either buy a drill press or whatever you got to do to make it work.
Is there a huge difference or difference at all between drilling a ball for a 2 handed bowler compared to a 2 finger bowler that only bowls one handed?
I don't know about other pros like Chris, but I personally use around a 5.5" pin to pap on most balls. 5.5" gets the ball down lane enough, and then I use the pin to grip to fine tune how much I want it to hook once it gets down lane. 1-2" pin to grip is a slower rounder shape... and the higher the number gets, the aggressive the shape gets.
Hi Chris! I hope to meet ya one of these days and maybe play a game with you. Wanted to get your thoughts on a few layouts. Right now, in the league, I have the 2 versions of the benchmark 2LS chart, but I'm now playing in more tournaments and sports shots. I recently bought a Fate, Rotogrip wildstreak, and a DV8 Collision seeking a layout suitable for long, short, and occasionally may use them in league. Any advice is greatly appreciated. I'm hoping to drill these balls over the weekend. Happy New Year!
It's very hard for anyone to recommend layouts when they have never seen the person bowl. That's why I try to speak in generalities so you can see how they apply to your game specifically. Talk with your pro shop operator and they should be able to give you some advice on which direction to go!
@TV Bowling Supply thank you! I guess I'll have to try and find a different PSO. I've used two so far, and they are not too knowledgeable with 2-handed or no thumb layouts. So I had to learn myself. So far, short pin low flaring layouts seem to be work on the ones I came up with for sports shots, and any strong layout seems to work on all house shots. Just wanted your take. Thank you.
I throw 2handed and wondering if I really need to know my PAP. The shop I go to is not at an alley and they basically drilled all the new balls I have to match my layout I was using when bowling traditionally with an “aggressive” layout about 3-4” above the middle finger and 1” to the right. I no longer get my thumb drilled but have the same layout, they roll great for me and never got checked for pap. Am I just lucky? Lol
A PAP is good to know/have just in case you want to get a ball drilled to do a specific thing. A good PSO can take that info and get you a ball to do just what you want👍🏼👍🏼
Can you do 2ls on a 1 hander and just measure to center of hand between fingers and thumb or just continue on normal vls layouts with a pin buffer measurement, because i never understand what the pin buffer does exactly
2LS is a layout system designed to compensate for the lack of a thumb hole, so 2LS wouldn’t really work the same for a one hander. Regular VLS is recommended
Thank Chris for informative contents. I'm wondering infinite or proton which one would you prefer to use for most of time no matter how hard or easy the oil pattern is. I have issue that can't throw big asym ball well, however, i do want to drill one good one to bowl more on the lane 🤣🤣. Grateful for your feedback in advance.
They are good compliments to one another so it would be more dependent on your style. If you have higher ball speed, probably the Proton. If your ball speed is a little slower, possibly the Infinite. Your pro shop operator should be able to help as they know your game better than I do!
There will always be some scenarios where the ball is going to be useable. Having a really strong ball with a really strong layout tends to limit the use of the ball for 2 handers with high rev rates. The ball will be so strong that it will need very specific situations for it to be ideal.
Would anyone be able to tell me what Chris 2LS dimensions he used for the Fate? He listed off 5 different numbers so I had a hard time figuring out what was the final layout.
@@redd634able the pro shop operator will ask the bowler to throw their “normal” shot. They’ll also have you throw multiple shots to confirm the PAP. Many two handers starting out are inconsistent with their release so the PAP can change shot to shot. I helped a couple friends of mine who are new bowling find their PAPs but since they’re still new to bowling, it took a while to find because they were throwing it slightly different every time. My PSO suggests I get my PAP checked once a year or sooner if I change my “normal” release through coaching or a physical adjustment.
I had a 7.25” pap, went through some major style changes working on really keeping my hand behind the ball and now my pap is at 5.25”. Drastic difference.
Hi, would like to seek your suggestion. Which 2LS drilling is the best for fresh oil in your opinion? I personally do well with the 4x4x5 for the transition phase.
Hey Chris thanks for doing this video. I am currently using dual angle layouts. Is there a way to translate that to 2ls? The proshops around here are unfamiliar with 2ls so I'm kinda stuck with dual angle.
