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How To Water Your Lawn WITHOUT an Irrigation System 

Ryan Knorr Lawn Care
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When it comes to watering your lawn many people will not have an in ground irrigation system to help with this process. However with a few tools and some simple steps you can easily water your lawn WITHOUT an in ground irrigation system and even create a diy above ground option that mimics a full in ground system. Here we talk about why I recommend an impact sprinkler for larger areas or how to build your own above ground irrigation system for a custom watering setup in your lawn.
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16 июл 2024

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Комментарии : 273   
@brookekathryn1980
@brookekathryn1980 5 лет назад
I switched to an orbit beehyve smart sprinkler controller! I will never look back! Deep watering, infrequently, rain and frost delays, weather factors and smart zone controls! Best purchase ever! Also got a rebate!
@resorensoniii
@resorensoniii 3 года назад
Thanks for the inspiration. After major dethatching and reseeding project my biggest concern was how to keep things watered. I scrapped together hoses, y-splitters and 8 cheap impact sprinklers on spikes and boom I have something that is functional. It is not something you would brag about to friends or enemies but it should get me by for a bit.
@wardyrb
@wardyrb 4 года назад
This was very helpful and encouraging for me Ryan since I don't have an in-ground system. I took mine to a next step by using quick disconnects.
@usnavykc
@usnavykc 4 года назад
I love your videos. I am about ready to overseed my lawn, starting with low mowing, dethatching, seeding, fertilizer and peak moss. i watched this video for watering tips!
@amansingh1851
@amansingh1851 Год назад
Man the farmer in me was like "so much land wasted on grass" when I saw the size of that backyard and frontyard. But I came here for some tips as I am issues with my front yard and thanks for it. Explaing the different type of grass with sun and time to water helps too.
@ZenithGamingFPS
@ZenithGamingFPS 4 года назад
this guy is a turfgrass pro. Deep and infrequent is a major key to watering correctly.
@andrewut7ya511
@andrewut7ya511 3 года назад
You might consider using a hunter pgp or similar rotary head in place of the impact sprinkler. It delivers as much water while being more adjustable. They create some pretty good force so they will need to be staked or mounted to a base like an impact, but the amount of control you get will probably be worth it. Pgp is the stanadr rotary head for pros, but a pgj will work very well above ground ad it creates less force which needs less stake. the biggest benifit will be fine control in corners to eliminate wasted water
@gmcjetpilot
@gmcjetpilot 3 года назад
Thanks for Vid.. Saw it a few months ago. Now I have an interim "permanent" sprinkler system, 5 Rotors, 6 Spray heads, two 2-zone timers covering the front and back yard. Total of 11 sprinklers. Bought cheap garden hose cut to required length, hose fittings, barbed Tees, hose clamps, and 2 Orbit 2-zone timers, one front yard, one back. I get 80-90% of yard. I manually water a few small strips / areas where adding more sprinklers is not worth the cost or water concrete as much as grass.
@jamesboberg
@jamesboberg 3 года назад
Thank you for your information, what I have learned from you talked about the grass and sprinklers. I will try the best I can do. Thank you, Ryan
@WoodsTreeFarm
@WoodsTreeFarm 5 лет назад
I liked the extra tips about the sprayers. thanks so much. great video
@Skittlesskittles-om6hp
@Skittlesskittles-om6hp 5 лет назад
Rain is comin again...my lawn looks awesome..like a golf course the hot weather kills it...😩😩😩😩 Awesome video...🌟🌟🌟🌟✨✨✨✨✨✨🌟🌟
@schase02
@schase02 5 лет назад
I recently completely re-topped my yard with enriched topsoil. It's a real bear to try and water as the topsoil is on top of very heavy clay soil. You put the slightest water on it and the clay just retains and then cracks. I ended up getting a fair coverage in but now I have to go back and try to fill in the patches.
@andrewut7ya511
@andrewut7ya511 3 года назад
it all depends on the climate, but ive been an irrigation pro for 17 years and have never seen problems from watering overnight such as fungus or mold. Due to the size of some systems we must water from 10pm to 5 am. Of course its possible, but if you are aware of the conditions you will likely never have an issue. Sounds oversimplified but its pretty easy to see, if its wet water less, of its dry water more.
@dannymartinez8522
@dannymartinez8522 Год назад
St augustine is finicky when watering at night
@andrewut7ya511
@andrewut7ya511 Год назад
@@dannymartinez8522 is it very humid there? I can imagine it may be difficult if its hot and sunny all day plus humid at night. Aroumd boston its pretty easy tho.
@dannymartinez8522
@dannymartinez8522 Год назад
@andrewut7ya511 yup very humid in mcallen tx . 105 F weather too hot feels like August. . 30% to 70% of humidity throughout the day in the summer
@TheLawnGuardian
@TheLawnGuardian 5 лет назад
I've always loved that above ground system you've made. I've wanted to make one for my side areas but haven't gotten around to it. Keep up the awesome videos, Ryan!
@ReelLowDad
@ReelLowDad 5 лет назад
Watching when I’m done filming. This will be a treat
@Lawnvolution
@Lawnvolution 5 лет назад
Another golf video?
@alainapotaduh
@alainapotaduh 5 лет назад
Yes! Tap tap! Thank you!
@AbnerG787
@AbnerG787 5 лет назад
I live in florida, so sandy soil tends to dry up really fast, if we get a couple of weeks without rain and 90F heat index grass turn brown REALLY fast, I had to water spots everyday, it was like playing whack-a-mole but at the end of the day it kept my grass green and beautiful (i put down 1 inch+ per day), no one else in the neighborhood watered and everybody had brown grass, looked like fall-mid winter grass (in florida).
@johnfetter3252
@johnfetter3252 5 лет назад
Great video Ryan. I put the Soil Loosener on about 10 days ago, and used a Ortho Hose End sprayer for half the lawn and a Chameleon for the other. Definitely makes the grass softer, but I can't make any comment about water retention as compared to Air 8 or Hydretain. This is a timely topic in Texas now as we are definitely heading into 3 months of hot and dry weather.
@michaelprice7005
@michaelprice7005 4 года назад
Nice job. I need to do this for next spring.
@brianschmitz6188
@brianschmitz6188 5 лет назад
Thanks Ryan! Yes, too much water bad, but in the proper doses, good. Fine, f/n line!
@PicturePerfectLawnMaintenance
@PicturePerfectLawnMaintenance 5 лет назад
Never ever water at night. Especially when it is humid outside. You will definitely being using a lot more fungicide. Also as far as watering goes try to use the head to head coverage. When you need to move a sprinkler try to make sure the next location hits where where the last sprinkler was located for great coverage
@GreenDragonPainting
@GreenDragonPainting 5 лет назад
Great video! Thanks buddy, I really appreciate it! 😁
@natearchibald5275
@natearchibald5275 4 года назад
I have always heard the night watering thing too, then I realized it rains in the middle of the night and it never hurts the lawn.
@dewayneoverton466
@dewayneoverton466 3 года назад
So true
@devinmanning257
@devinmanning257 3 года назад
but it doesn't ALWAYS rain at night. If you always water at night it will sooner or later have issues, If it occasionally rains at night and or you occasionally water at night yes you most likely will not have issues.
@michaelprice7005
@michaelprice7005 5 лет назад
I use the oscillating sprinklers that have width and sweep adjustment. I like my impact sprinklers too but I remove the directional stops so they only go clockwise, they're quieter that way. I've also made some "hose bridges" out of 2" PVC pipe cut lengthwise and a couple threaded rods as spikes. It keeps the hose up off the grass so I don't get the ugly snake trail and I can leave the sprinklers/hoses out for a couple of days. I also water in my swim trunks with a Red Nose, goggles, and a tin foil hat...maybe I'm weird...no, I'm definitely weird. I get a lot of honks.
@JohnLeibfried
@JohnLeibfried 5 лет назад
Im excited for you to get that in ground system. I know you’ve mentioned putting one in the past couple years. Looking forward to the install content. Btw you are pushing Conor hard for best low mow lawn. I realize he has a lot more yard but your front is looking unbelievable. Hope he doesn’t see this but I have to give you the nod. 👌🏻
@chitoman5000
@chitoman5000 Год назад
😊😅
@ericklodnicki
@ericklodnicki 5 лет назад
Awesome, thanks Ryan!
@justinfry9729
@justinfry9729 5 лет назад
Thanks for the great video Ryan, when would you recommend moving from frequently watering a newly seeded lawn to more deep, infrequent watering?
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
Probably around the time you start to mow it
@allandbowden
@allandbowden 3 года назад
Excellent video Ryan, thanks for the tips.
@itshomelife
@itshomelife 5 лет назад
Great video Ryan. I’m a hose dragger too and it does the job for now. Will you be doing a series on your irrigation installation?
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
Probably one vid...I'm having it installed
@CocoChanelle-1
@CocoChanelle-1 2 года назад
Need this like yesterday! Thanks for making the video.
@Cory.R.Baumann
@Cory.R.Baumann Год назад
Dude! I used to watch your acoustic videos in the early 2000s. I played what about me at my first wedding.
@richardgleason5953
@richardgleason5953 4 года назад
FWIW, roots don't grow through dry soil in search of water. They grow in response from water. In other words, if your upper 1-2" of soil is typically wet from irrigation, that is where the majority of roots will be. As stated in the video, less frequent more deep and thorough waterings are preferred. The better the root system, the better the canopy. Obviously, newly seeded / sodded areas need frequent, lighter irrigation applications... more-so than maintenance irrigation applications. I have always placed shallow cans (like tuna cans) throughout the irrigation zone to check for coverage and amounts of water applied.
@texasshake710
@texasshake710 4 года назад
Love the video! Would you use the soil loosener to a brand new turf that was installed? Also, what do you recommend to use on new turf to make sure it doesn't die.
@graceortiz9494
@graceortiz9494 5 лет назад
Just checked my rain gage 3" from last night.
@MrUtahfan
@MrUtahfan 5 лет назад
Where's the PPE for spraying that lawn loosener. Hasn't Conner Ward taught you anything? Keep up the great work.
@mteske1
@mteske1 5 лет назад
Best hose I’ve found is the continental black rubber at Home Depot. I have about five of them.
@AsLawnandLandscaping
@AsLawnandLandscaping 5 лет назад
Nice video man!
@VW.907
@VW.907 5 лет назад
Good info.
@waltcorey5115
@waltcorey5115 3 года назад
Thanks Ryan! Have you actually tested your water pressure? I'd love to know what it is. I've got 3 areas I'm working on, a newly seeded, from scratch, 5,000 sq ft rectangle, a 500 sq ft rectangle, and a, maybe, 2,000-2500 sq ft area. I'm up to 7 zones. I may have to bag the mp rotatorsvin favor of impact sprinklers in the 5,000 sq ft area as too many dry areas with Hunters. I can only do 2 mp3000s per zone on 40 psi from bib.
@brendansherman6625
@brendansherman6625 4 года назад
Awesome video bud very well done
@Leth0
@Leth0 4 года назад
Hey Ryan, I'm new to lawn care and I'm trying to enter a routine my lawn has never seen anything other than rain I'm trying to change that I added some feet, about a month after some fungus control as I was getting some dollar spots and then a week later today I added weed killer to kill off the weeds that are invading, I did a test with a screwdriver and there are areas in my lawn where I can't go past 2 inches into the ground not sure if aeration should be in the works now.
@seminole715
@seminole715 5 лет назад
Thanks Ryan, a lot of great info!
@SaurabhOlkarSAN
@SaurabhOlkarSAN 4 года назад
Thanks a lot, this is really useful information. I would like to understand the white rectangle bottle, what was it for ? At the end of video you attached it to hose, is it the same when you actually started showing that bottle while seating? Please let me know
@heroknaderi
@heroknaderi 4 года назад
Very helpful thanks
@ice500
@ice500 3 года назад
Thank you so much Ryan for the nice explanation. What part of the states are you from? Your lawn looks really good brother.
@jerryknorr679
@jerryknorr679 3 года назад
Very good video , ur right the best time to water is 5am till 11am. Night time watering is not good depending of the time of year and grass type for either brown patch , dollar spot or red thread. Nice job cuz hahaha
@Shemdoupe
@Shemdoupe 5 лет назад
I would have never though that I would have a fungus problem but I can assure you, it will. I have had a ton of rain during the night and I am fighting a massive fungus problem now.
@davidoverman9034
@davidoverman9034 5 лет назад
Great video, appreciate you sharing. Do you still use rainwater to water your lawn? Do you plan on incorporating your IBC/rain barrel into your in ground system with utilization of a pump or sticking to city water?
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
The rain barrel is only 250 gallons so it doesn't take long to go through that with watering the lawn. We use it mainly for the garden and watering plants on the deck etc. My irrigation will be hooked up to city
@jonheacker1521
@jonheacker1521 2 года назад
I have Zoysia sod in my yard. Last year looked wonderful. Coming to spring has a lot of bar spots of looks like dead grass. I raked the dead grass and has bear spots now and am going to reseed and fertilize the spots. What could have caused this over the winter to do this. Am I handling this right by reseeding? Help and thanks.
@drewsahlstrom
@drewsahlstrom 4 года назад
What are your thoughts on MP rotator vs single stream?
@poonpounder8771
@poonpounder8771 5 лет назад
That backyard is perfect for 2 big dogs!!
@thefouramigoasuwu6567
@thefouramigoasuwu6567 4 года назад
Hey ryan I stay in ann arbor michigan with humidity. How often should I water my lawn? Also I have a few patches that I plan on seeding. Should I water the seeds 3 times a day for 5-10 minutes a piece?
@JEK
@JEK 5 лет назад
The front yard looks ridiculously good.
@35057
@35057 4 года назад
I just expanded my back yard and I need to fix a couple zones and add a couple zones but in the meantime you’re giving me some good ideas. 😎
@meagansly4707
@meagansly4707 Год назад
Hi Ryan! Love the series TY for sharing! I'm wondering if we can use the Simple Lawn Soil Loosener on our new lawn that was recently seeded+ has hay? TY!!
@kelseyknorr3535
@kelseyknorr3535 Год назад
Hi Meagan - The Soil Loosener product isn't recommended for newly seeded lawns. Thanks for the question!
@kellil3845
@kellil3845 4 года назад
What kind of sprinkler is that you used on the front yard? I haven't seen those before. This is a great video, very helpful!
@reelmowingromokeepingitree2191
@reelmowingromokeepingitree2191 4 года назад
Awesome videos brother.
@rhughes004
@rhughes004 3 года назад
Your lawn looks like the fairways at Augusta. 👌
@DMSDitzz
@DMSDitzz 4 года назад
you must have serious dedication to have a lawn that looks like that with no built in irrigation system
@bethrossignol9746
@bethrossignol9746 3 года назад
Beautiful hostas!! Where did you get the diy sprinkler spigots?
@yahlady15
@yahlady15 4 года назад
Hello! What is your water irrigation system for your front yard? Thank you!!!
@theveryfirst
@theveryfirst 3 года назад
That is holy grail grass Ryan!
@DIYDad1
@DIYDad1 5 лет назад
Lake Michigan has been keeping us in the 60s and 70s the last week or so, but no rain and even with the milder temps I'm drying out really fast. I'm glad you did an update on this topic I'll just be running a bunch fo rotors strung together on a 4 way hose timer. I'm hoping 9 GPM is enough for 2 or 3 sprinklers each zone. I have a skinny 13 x 60 ft area along the road by my fence I hope about 2 or 3 rotors attached by 25ft hose sections should cover the area! What do you think? The rest of the lawn is just big rectangles so I'll either do oscillating or impact for those areas (I'll be seeding in Aug so idk if impact might wash seed away).
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
Hard to say but just give it a try and hope for the best!
@debbieh1959
@debbieh1959 3 года назад
Ryan Great video's I like to know what brand and part number are the sprinkler heads
@Titannurse
@Titannurse 3 года назад
Thanks again Ryan. Anyone have thoughts on a natural approach to addressing weeds? We subscribed to Sunday this year. They offer an iron-based weed treatment. It works...but limited. My wife doesn't want me using tenacity or anything of the sort. I overseeded. Any other ideas? Too many dandelions.
@bmpace1
@bmpace1 5 лет назад
I’m ready for another Simple Solutions giveaway!!!!
@popeyeyankee5477
@popeyeyankee5477 5 лет назад
Great video. My concrete driveway is chipping and its right next to my main lawn. I've noticed my lawn has been really dry when the weather gets hot. Do you think it may have something to do with my chipped concrete driveway? It's only at the bottom of the driveway.
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
It's possible
@marcusbjorklund8022
@marcusbjorklund8022 3 года назад
Fellow Minnesotan, but living in Texas
@musk-eteer0074
@musk-eteer0074 5 лет назад
Hello Ryan. Great video. How many times a year to you apply the soil loosener? I believe the manufacturer recommends only twice a year for most users.
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
You can apply really any time you're getting dry soil and want to water more efficiently. A few times a year would be fine for a minimum.
@proZach380
@proZach380 5 лет назад
I just set up an above-ground system based on one of your previous videos to start seeding my front yard...after two almost two weeks watering 15-18 minutes 4 times a day, I'm really not sure if the growth so far is good or not. The bi-polar weather in these parts probably doesn't help...we went from blizzards to 80+ degree temps in less than a month.
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
Just stay with it and you will get there...the patience is the hardest part!
@RVALawnLove
@RVALawnLove 5 лет назад
Hey Ryan, a viewer of mine just basically asked me to make this video for him. I would have to go buy everything but a hose...I have in ground irrigation. I’m sure you don’t mind, but may I link this video in my comment section for my viewer? You’re content is on point and probably exactly what he needs, thanks.
@ZulkSOD
@ZulkSOD 5 лет назад
I don't see why you would have to ask him permission to do that... you're just giving him free exposure
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
Go for it!
@RVALawnLove
@RVALawnLove 5 лет назад
OP pro respect I guess. I just don’t want him or anyone else thinking that I’m sharing this video with a specific viewer and claiming any part of it. It is his content after all.
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
I appreciate that so thank you for asking. 😀
@malabu24
@malabu24 5 лет назад
Ryan why with all these new liquid fertilizers has nobody considered putting in a ez-flo fertigation system
@FixItWithMe
@FixItWithMe Год назад
If I have a septic field, do u have to irrigate that part of the lawn? We just did a septic field repair that cost $40,000. I was wondering if the irrigation sped up its failure? Thanks!
@labattbro3
@labattbro3 Год назад
What if you don’t have the highest of water pressure? Are there better products that work with lower water pressure? I tried to link two impact sprinklers together and noticed a drastic loss of pressure
@kathyrittenhouse2948
@kathyrittenhouse2948 4 года назад
Good job
@rsnate2930
@rsnate2930 Год назад
cool video! thanks - DIY sprinklers :D
@andrearivers5836
@andrearivers5836 5 лет назад
Just ordered this stuff. I have gotten my tiny front lawn and right of way strip to a decent state of aesthetic but now now I'm working on the soil aspect. But I think this is the next step. Especially near the edges. Crappy boulder ridden(head sized and larger) and compacted clay based with minimal topsoil and sod(i think that comes from being a new development) Probably a dumb question, Can I put this in a small pump sprayer? Mainly, my front lawn is so small and odd shaped a hose application is overkill and my water pressure sucks even with a new hose (learned that the hard way). This fall I start the backyard (it's an absolute horror of compacted soil, weeds, and moss) I'm learning!
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
You could dilute it in the sprayer and try it....I wouldn't see why it wouldn't work as long as it was thinned enough to spray out
@freddyoner
@freddyoner 3 года назад
What is the chemical to water ration if I wanted to use your liquid aeration in a pump sprayer?
@omggarrett
@omggarrett 5 лет назад
I've been meaning to do this after watching your first build. Have you tried the quick hose disconnects at all, if so did they work well?
@wayneessar7489
@wayneessar7489 5 лет назад
Some have a very small opening, other a good size one so shop carefully.
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
The ones I've seen and have have a smaller opening so I try not to use anything that will restrict the flow but I should try it.
@bobbymiddleton5153
@bobbymiddleton5153 4 года назад
What do you use to cut your yard plz share
@zioulz3685
@zioulz3685 4 года назад
I've always watered at 2 am and has had no problems except for a tiny patch of shrooms 1 time
@northernliving2387
@northernliving2387 2 года назад
Ryan what type of irrigation controller do you use
@petercampbe11
@petercampbe11 5 лет назад
Hi Ryan, what is the active ingredient called in the soil loosener? thanks
@DBrengartner
@DBrengartner 5 лет назад
Peter Campbell “Ammonium Laureth Sulfate”
@techep3
@techep3 5 лет назад
Great stuff Ryan! What video editing software do you recommend for someone starting out with RU-vid?
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
I started with iMovie
@lawnboyfreak
@lawnboyfreak 3 года назад
I’ve used the ortho dial and spray. It’s extremely inconsistent. I wouldn’t recommend. If you add a product like laser in the ortho, you can really see the inconsistency in its spray. I even have one of the older ones that people say are better than the new style. I’m thinking on getting a Chapin hose end sprayer to see how well it works in comparison to the ortho.
@shamone10
@shamone10 Год назад
Nice video, I’m in the UK (and sorry a bit unrelated to the video) I’m always amazed at how open gardens tend to be in the US with just some Mesh fencing between you & your neighbours gardens. Do feel like you get any privacy between from your neighbours? My garden is about half an acre so not a bad size but I’ve just got hedges, shrubs and trees all around. Anyway you have a beautiful house and garden, may just be because they look like new builds and nothing has been able to mature yet
@charlottemillican6335
@charlottemillican6335 10 месяцев назад
How did you attach the stake?
@kalderman71037
@kalderman71037 Год назад
Which is better to run your above ground sprinkler heads: 1/2, 5/8, or 3/4 hoses.
@collegecreekhomebrewery6681
@collegecreekhomebrewery6681 5 лет назад
Just used the above ground setup today. I find that my home’s water pressures at the hose bib is enough to run up to 2 MP3000s and 2 MP2000s in series. I live about 20 miles north of Ryan. We had something like 9” of rain in May and less than 1/2” total thus far in June. I’ve been using T-Nex for about 6 weeks, so hoping to see the benefits of increased root development and resistance to drought stress.
@joysticketat
@joysticketat Год назад
I gave up watering water bill of 300 dollar or more. Look great in spring and fall sorry I put in KBG thinking of replacing KBG with a more drought resistance grass.
@adamposlosky9051
@adamposlosky9051 4 года назад
Ryan any tips if the pressure decreases on second and third heads in a series?
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 4 года назад
Usually just means you don't have enough pressure so you may need some kind of booster pump to make it work
@kellyfay86
@kellyfay86 5 дней назад
How long to water in the mornings to achieve the right amount? Apologies if I missed it!
@donsugg4048
@donsugg4048 4 года назад
What size hose are u useing
@cherylgordon1145
@cherylgordon1145 2 года назад
May you please tell me what type of sprinkler head and name you used. Thank you 😊
@MikeHaddadLawnAddictions
@MikeHaddadLawnAddictions 5 лет назад
We got your rain here in western ny
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
I'll take some back now
@troyd.521
@troyd.521 3 года назад
Do those heads you use in the front just spin and spray 360 degrees?
@andrewkupres4314
@andrewkupres4314 4 года назад
Is there any benefit to using a 2 inch body? Or is a 4 inch better ?
@samuraioodon
@samuraioodon 2 года назад
Will it be issue to have hose crossing sidewalk? We have people crossing I'm afraid they will complain it sue if they trip and fall... Did you have issues?
@snowbaordguru
@snowbaordguru 5 лет назад
Where do you get the bare mounting spikes for the DIY system?
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
Check links in the description...i believe I have all the parts included
@tonymadera3603
@tonymadera3603 5 лет назад
I think I like the fabric of your shirt which looks like "polyester." What brand is that and if you have a link to buying that shirt?
@ryanknorrlawncare
@ryanknorrlawncare 5 лет назад
It's a Dickies cooling shirt. I think I got them at walmart a few years ago
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