How to work with Shutdown vs. Freeze - with Ruth Lanius, MD, PhD

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Get the latest strategies on treating trauma in the short course: "How to Work With Clients Who Are Stuck" with Bessel van der Kolk, MD, Tara Brach, PhD, Pat Ogden, PhD, and more: www.nicabm.com/program/stuck/...
In the face of a traumatic experience, some clients become unable to move. This can sometimes indicate that a client is experiencing either a freeze response or a shutdown response to trauma.
And according to Ruth Lanius, MD, PhD, there are key neurological differences that can help us distinguish between the two . . .
. . . so that we can better target our interventions to help patients find relief.
In this video, Ruth gets into the neurobiology of both freeze and shutdown - and walks us through her approach with each.
For the latest insights and strategies on treating common client issues, subscribe to our RU-vid channel and then visit us at www.nicabm.com/?del=YTOrganic...

Опубликовано:

6 окт 2022

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Комментарии : 60

@MashitaBo Год назад

I would be grateful for explaining difference between shut down and freeze responses

@echo195990 Год назад

I have once read something like that shutdown is the collapse of flight/fight. The person is under aroused. Freezing on the other hand is overly activated flight and fight. The person is extremely hyper aroused despite looking like they have shut down. . .

@eberekalu7806 Год назад

Echo Eos, I am currently at that Shut down stage and 😢 it is so scary, I am desperately looking for a way out, I feel so empty like I am not human. It’s been like that for 5weeks I don’t know what to do.

@queengoblin Год назад

@@eberekalu7806 i was in freeze for 3 weeks, what got me out of it was orienting. literally it's 5 mins of focusing on your body, breath, surroundings, and sounds all at once, just getting present in your environment and body. freeze melted away. i couldn't function at all until i did just 5 mins of orienting. irene lyon talks about orienting.

@Lachlans-i2s 10 месяцев назад

@@queengoblin yes love her orientation exercise

@Jettypilelegs 9 месяцев назад

@@eberekalu7806I hope you are feeling better now 💕

@Mandance 9 месяцев назад

What about people with co morbidities of chronic fatigue who can’t exert themselves much without worsening symptoms?

@luna-ih8mb 2 месяца назад

very much been struggling with this for years and still yet to find an answer

@simonschwarz6919 Месяц назад

Training ventral vagal tonus. See Deb Dana= safety anchors

@Mandance Месяц назад

@@simonschwarz6919is that her book or a RU-vid video? Thanks

@ChelseaLori 5 месяцев назад

This just helped me make sense of something that I’ve been struggling with for years. Thank you so much.

@amyhoop9651 Год назад

Very educational. Thank you

@evasvie2699 Год назад

Thank you for these helpful videos!

@leolauria 5 месяцев назад

Brilliant. Thank you so much 🙏🏻

@UXtatic Месяц назад

Thank you.

@Lena_champy 4 месяца назад

Thank you, that makes sense when we know about the metaphor of the « ladder » (deb Dana) : going « up » to the sympathetic then finally up to the ventral vagal. Thank you, that was interesting !

@regina6838 6 месяцев назад

Thanks. I haven't heard of shut down before but it makes total sense. A problem is with people who suffer from PEM. Others won't have discipline for exercise. Grateful for your insights. Sunshine would help too?

@arbuznafiji Год назад

But how did those exercises made the nervous system heal? As you say that when the client stopped push ups the shutdown symptoms reappeared. I spent my life in subconsciously trying to keep myself in aroused state and it only made my crash big time at the end. Constant suppression of shutdown by being active did not heal my nervous system. So what’s the real solution to healing?

@hadarovsky Год назад

@anially 8 месяцев назад

I was trying this too I guess.. staying aroused..

@qayenatkhan8119 7 месяцев назад

Same. This is such a stuck forever phase. Imagine being shutdown, frozen, burnt out completely and have no job because you are bedridden, and you have to pay you rent and bills. It’s hell.

@Heyu7her3 3 месяца назад

This doesn't seem for healing (a more complicated process), this is about for with distress so that you can get out of it in the moment.

@danny.halstead2181 3 месяца назад

Fuck that's me rn, plus severe depersonalization@@qayenatkhan8119

@localCrows 11 месяцев назад

I would find it very helpful if the video mentioned shutdowns in autistics which may look similar but in which "activation" like the one mentioned here is not possible or helpful at all.

@MsStone-ue6ek 7 месяцев назад

Micro Movements as an interesting modality with regard to Tonic Immobility. Thank you.

@wzupppp 26 дней назад

Why would movement help me if im in shutdown? Im exhausted and exercise gives me more symptoms and PEM

@terryandersen6293 Год назад

Does NICABM address the extreme startle response from unexpected subtle noises in any of their videos?

@SK-mx9tq Год назад

Thank you for this helpful video, Dr Lanius. And may I ask for more information about the fascinating painting behind you?

@fjr2107 Год назад

I agree, I love this painting, too.

@freisein6554 Год назад

@@fjr2107 yes, that grabbed my attention right away,…😊

@anitat9727 3 месяца назад

What about those with disabilities or chronic illnesses that prevent a lot of movement?

@ComingHomeToYourself21 Год назад

Most of all, get yourself out of the environment that triggered a freeze response. Nature is very soothing for the whole nervous system. It is oxygenating too. Sense of Touch might be very responsive - so having something to feel in your hands (aka stimming) and slow Taiji movement in one place, brain gym exercise or very special favourite tastes like for me it is Jasmine Green tea, bitter but the scent is heavenly. If you know beforehand a situation will stress you out, avoid to go there in the first place, or, if you can;t avoid it, have someone come with you, as moral support and witness. And endure the situation only to a limited time (one hour or so) before you get triggered. These are at least some of my tools. Prevent also excitotoxins in foods, that will trigger stress in your nervous system..

@juliearcand2358 Год назад

I have had freeze response and tonic immobility for years and I went to a now closed, but we'll known center for traumatic experience in Washington state. I had a both a male and a female therapist just touch my hand. This was the only thing that worked for me ( obviously not instantaneously but within 5 to 20 minutes. I know this is extremely controversial for therapists, but I wonder why it isn't studied or used more???

@Elya08 Год назад

My therapist had to literally hug me out of dissociation/shut down recently. I could NOT get my body grounded on my own, and I felt tormented internally.

@juliearcand2358 Год назад

@Kayla Brown yes, I've had that happen before too but it is so controversial that I didn’t want to say anything. That psychiatrist has retired years ago but literally saved my life. I would just get in like a frozen trance state or a silent crying state but couldn't move. I hope you will keep on working and know that in time it does get better!!! 25 years with that one therapist/psychiatrist, multiple stays at the Chelan trauma hospital (sadly shut down in 2006) and still in therapy but not 4x a week....only 1/2x a month!!! Progress!! So please keep going and if you ever feel you just need to talk, you can let me know, I've finally got good boundaries!!! I'd be happy to listen. Best wishes ❤️

@arbuznafiji Год назад

Silent crying with motionless body - no therapist explained that to me. Thank you for sharing

@juliearcand2358 Год назад

@arbuznafiji best of luck to you. Trauma is so difficult to get over and to understand. Medicine typically doesn't work because Trauma can be mostly situational and can seemingly come from nowhere or nowhere we "get" immediately or ever. I truly wish you the best and I have definitely made significant improvements after 30 years of therapy. I don’t think it takes that long for everyone but just being in therapy for the first several years...that silent crying was all I could do. It was my therapist that made those changes of touching my hand and allowing me to pick up a piece of paper that indicated to him that he wasn't getting it and that helped a lot when I couldn't speak. ❤️

@Lachlans-i2s 10 месяцев назад

@@juliearcand2358 literally, I just need a hug to be held sucks when u don't have a partner to do it

@kristenlangdon4229 2 месяца назад

I was in fight or flight for years, then i got drugged a year ago and now my emotions are gone and my anxiety is gone, i can barely panic anymore, is this shutdown?

@cherylwilsherlimberlife7210 Год назад

Im stuck in immobility..This seams to put me into freeze..? When I get activated in sympathetic..any advice please?

@fifiearthwanderer Год назад

I am stuck in freeze also

@CianneDoodles 8 месяцев назад

Also stuck in freeze.

@Nightwalker25-m3u Год назад

That client your talking about sounds like he and I have the same experience.

@RebeccaAngle-oe5my 9 месяцев назад

Could these progress into epileptic seizures later on in life of not treated properly in early childhood development?

@Samanthaduchessdeath 5 месяцев назад

My seizures started in my late teens, I have more anxiety and stress issues than epilepsy issues, there could be a link but everyone's so different it's hard to find out

@Lachlans-i2s 10 месяцев назад

Deep pressure? Is that what she says is good for freeze?