HUGE DIFFERENCE! Ping i59 Iron VS TaylorMade P770 Iron 

I guess it depends on why someone’s score is higher. For me I play s55 and I love them. My problem is 3 putts and not leaving myself with optimal approach distances. I think more than handicap should be considered when deciding which irons people should get

It's just a game improvement iron in a smaller head, so it should be fine for most really, unless you're new and hitting it all over the planet.

Very interesting. Thanks. I've been playing for 59 years and part of the pleasure of golf is always to be learning something new, both about how our bodies work and how equipment works.

First time I've heard someone mention something along the lines of something I've suspecting for quite a while. When I swing a club that is a blade/muscle back or a players cavity back that is close to a blade it feels very natural to me I hit them well even though I'm not a single digit player (I do have the swing speed to be one though and a pretty good swing). However, when I swing something with a much deeper cavity back and lower center of gravity and I guess higher MOI it feels less natural and more clunky to me even though it should be easier and better for me. This is of course assuming the same shaft in each which also has an effect.

@@no_delusions The difference between high- and low-MOI clubs is really felt when the face angle is changed shot-to-shot at address, open for fades, closes for draws. You can feel the difference by how much the club tries to rotate in the hands. I also find swing style a factor. The wide sweeping hip turn powered takeaway used from the 1800s and introduction of thinner hickory shafts was used to prevent the toe bias of the club head from twisting the wooden shaft unpredictably club-to-club and swing to swing. Hogan, Sneed, Nelson all used that takeaway even after switching to metal shafts because they were accustomed to feeling the toe bias in their hands and compensating for it. Nicklaus popularized the hands/shoulders first style which swings the club inside more in the takeaway. When using that style takeaway the bias difference between low- and high-MOI club heads will be felt more in my experience. In the early 2000 I bought and regripped several sets of old irons found in the barrel at thrifts to play and compare them. One my favorites where a set of 1978 Wilson Reflex which were the “slot” irons with very small low mass heads which got banned as non-conforming by USGA because of how the slot made the face thinner. It was that set that made me understand the F = 1/2(M x V^2) striking force formula in practical terms. If one is able to accelerated a lighter mass to higher velocity the lighter mass club head will actually generate more compression on the ball. But those clubs had a sweet spot the size of a pencil eraser and were VERY unforgiving of mis-hits 😂

@@TeddyCavachon I think also just the fact that the COG in these high MOI clubs just has a different feel when you hinge for example in your backswing. The weight is no longer in line with the shaft it is further back so it is a slightly different sensation for people sensitive to it and with supple hands and a neutral grip in their swing. And of course the big difference is as you rotate the club in your downswing and especially through release and especially if you have active hands and arms. If you just use a strong grip and swing with all body and arms as a unit and hold off your release then you are less sensitive to anything much I think, but that is not my swing. An analog of course would be the old acushnet bulls eye toe hang style putters vs the face balanced putters with all that weight deep behind the shaft that are popular today. I guess most people want the high cog face balanced and the forgiveness over the feel of a more toe hang putter. I think Phil Mickelson uses a toe hang putter but not sure who else. For a long time I stayed with my bulls eye putter but as my hands got shaky had to switch. Never putted as well as I did with that especially on longer putts.

@@no_delusions It was buying a house with an artificial putting green in the back yard which led me down the this rabbit hole of trying to understand the how the evolution of the golf swing technique related to changes in equipment by reading a lot of books on golf history and instructional texts by early instructors like Abe Mitchell and “Down to Scratch” in 1933 which introduced the idea of swinging into resistance to stretch muscles in the backswing to generate the power in the downswing. I started going to thrift stores and buying lots of different putters to experiment, including a couple of Bullseyes and early PING Ansers and also came across the story of what inspired Karsten Solheim to invent the Ping 1-A and Anser. Apparently like everyone else in the 1950s he started out using a Bullseye but noticed how the extreme toe bias twisted it in his hands when swung back and forward. The prototype for the 1-A putter was two tongue depressors separated by sugar cubes with the shaft in the middle similar to today’s mallet putters. I’ve never been able to actually handle one so I don’t know how the toe hangs on it, figured out that the 40° - 45° toe hang angle of the Anser style putters was apparently Solheim’s solution to keep the face square in the backswing when using the inside-back-to-square putting stroke used back then. But conventional wisdom about putting stroke changed to a straight stroke, and when used with that style stroke the Anser is also a bit toe heavy. That new stroke of led to the development of face balance mallets and the anchored long putters because is quite difficult bio-mechanically for humans to swing a club on a straight line with arms and shoulders. So what is the ideal solution to that dilemma of the body moving in a circle but the club head needing to track a straight line to target? I’ve concluded it is to let the clubs hang and find pendulum balance with gravity at address then move the body in a way that keeps body mass, arm mass and club mass in balance and let the club mass steer the hands and arms rather than attempting to steer the club with the hands past the initial takeaway move. I have a sets of the original PING Eye irons, Eye 2, and S57 which I currently play with and all of them do that quite well as do most modern cavity back higher MOI irons which is why even many pros have switched to them. Unfortunately the term “forgiveness” became a marketing buzzword most instructors now parrot without ever explaining relative to what (older MB irons) and why (the higher MOI allowing club face to track square with swing arc automatically).

How much for something like those custom fitted? $1500?

@@TurkeyDart More like $1750 for a full set.

@@mattrogers5315 okay thanks. Im a beginner. I grabbed a new set of cobra irons for $329. Added some golf pride tour grips on it. Got a cleveland putter and a cheap $60 bag and a friend gave me a driver that i regripped and so far its been not bad. But i just bought a 40 lesson plan with Golftec that will include a fitting.

Thanks Steve

I play some old titleist blades and I am good for one every 5 rounds or so. Hogan said the difference between a shank and a perfect strike was a couple of millimeters.

@@BidenIsKing I love that quote, I may start using that with my playing Partners when I shank one. I've never seen anyone quite like me. I can have a most excellent round of 75, then take a few weeks off come back out and shoot an 86 with three shanks and even managed to shank one chipping.... I'll tell you what I've noticed though-other than the complete embarrassment playing with the same guys who you shot a career round of 4 over with the previous month, the difference between a shank and a perfect shot in The Sweet Spot is so very little. for a while I was confused what was happening, but what's happening is clear-I am slightly hitting the hosel with the inside of the ball which causes complete Mayhem. Honestly Lookout! It's so embarrassing I've almost quit before. for years I didn't know what was even causing it in terms of where the ball was actually hitting on the iron face? If I played more often it might go away but I've had it creep back when I've been playing consistently as well. I'll tell you what I've learned is that I hit the ball Center to heel strike which is very close to the hosel with the inside of the ball, whereas the center of the ball and farside are onn actually on The Sweet Spot. I learned from some very smart clubmakers in Japan who work for mizuno, that the sweet spot on most irons is actually on the HEEL-SIDE of center. No not a complete heel strike, but closer to the heel than most people think... So when I shank, I'm actually not missing by much I know this because of how good my other iron shots are when I don't shank. I played Titleist blades for a long time. If I was just a hacker I wouldn't say this. That's what makes it so difficult, and has made me want to quit many times! I have quit for long periods. I always come back because I love the game and I love breaking 80. It gets in my head on the t-box especially par threes are the worst for me. Driver no problem 290 down the Fairway every time. Chipping, that's my sweet spot and where I make up all my ground. My wedges my money club. I have the chipping game of a plus-4 golfer, I've had friends go get chipping lessons after playing with me. Fairway Woods most excellent. But the embarrassing shank creeps up all too often for me. I want to hide. I think Hogan is right it's just a millimeter or 2 off a perfect strike! Long comment? yes. can anyone relate? Does anyone absolutely hate par threes? I would love to try some flat lie Angle irons. has anyone with the shanking problem tried any flat lie angle irons and been helped?

@@BidenIsKing tell me what you think about my comment Mr. Beck?l Can you relate to any of it? Have you ever tried any Flatter lie angle irons?

@@BuffaloNickel9 I play with flat irons and strike the ball very pure. My issue is standing up too much into the ball like Tiger used to do which leads to a toe down divot. Bringing the hosel more into play. I have struggled with the chipping yips and went from an amazing chipper and pitcher to trash. If I drink enough beer they go away. I don’t really like to drink but, do so for my golf game. I typically shoot in the high 60’s to low 70’s. Like you I will have blow up rounds due to either chipping yips or shanks. I work on lowering my hands to help prevent the shank and improving strike. I need to continue working on getting my divots flat again. A few month ago I had my best round in years with 8 birdies and an eagle ending at 7 under. So there is hope. By the way, I don’t care if I shank. Because that means I am close to perfection! If I do during a round or have a few it just means I am human. I had one round where I had not played in months and had to quit after 9. I was exhausted from hitting so many balls into the woods and it was not getting any better. That was my lowest point with them.

Straight away I could see p770 was the better club........similar spin and descent angle but 10 yards longer. That's an extra club longer than the i59. The loft doesn't matter since the spin and height numbers are the same.

the blade numbers you see (im assuming low ball speed and high spin) is all from his strikes. They're all lower on the head (lowers launch raises spin, lower ball speed, shorter distance). He never really caught one

@@jacobfelsing2887 for Michael, the i59 were more blade like meaning what you’re saying ya. If he had a harder time catching one then def p770 is better for him based on his finding. I personally play Mizuno mp18 and ping iblades interchangeably. I can say off the mat the mp18s def go through better than the high bounced iblades. But that completely changes outdoors. iblade feel buttery in their own way. I agree with your comment, loft and strike do trump everything

What about the 770 compared to the i500?

Srixon

4 to 6 months estimated delivery shown on TM web site. Way too long to even consider ordering.

@@richardimbody3121 I ordered mine in July and I’m hoping to take delivery either late October or early November so you’re not far wrong. 👍🏻⛳️👍🏻

I ordered P790s three weeks ago. Heads won’t be available until end of October. Shafts not available until end of November.

Better ball strikers/ lower handicap golfers don't want distance, they want consistent distance gapping and roughly 10 yards between clubs so that's really who the pings are aimed towards, I agree that they're to expensive

@@mikegable9317 thanks Mike for letting me know how golf works, I really appreciate that. Did you see the dispersion on the P770's? Do low handicappers want a bigger circle from the ping and to pay more money? If so, that is where the Pings are aimed towards.

@@alwaysup22 nope watch TXG's review of them because they're the best, they're better ball strikers!!! Why are you so butthurt by my response? Because maybe you don't understand how golf works chill dude damn

Don't forget that the descent angles were almost identical. If that holds true through the set, I wouldn't care too much about spin.

@@subwaytm I can tell you it doesn’t hold steady with the P770, I hit about 30 shots with them and had 2 pulls where the spin dropped more than it should have, the ball flight flattened, and it flew well over the green. Those 2 shots were the only reason I didn’t buy them.

I hundred percent agree with you. I had the same result. It sounds like our guy has a tailor-made endorsement. Lol.

The pings have more offset. Could be simple as that for his results

More grooves does not equal greater spin. Grooves are essentially to remove moisture - think of car tyres and the purpose of tread. Similarly, formula 1 tyres and dry weather Moto GP tyres are treadless, to provide maximum friction, maximum contact.

@@Longarmshortarm so where do you claim spin comes from on the club face?

Ya what I got out of that review was the i59 is more comparable to p7mc?

P790s sound like they would be great for you. Great forgiveness and distance, but much sleeker look than game improvement irons

Will be a popular iron this year I feel.....

My T100s should arrive any day now

Love my zx7 , easier for me to hit than the t100

Really good comment . I also play i210s . I tried the p7mcs and thought they were great . But felt on my bad days would they be right for me . So up till now staying with the pings . I’d love ping to bring out a proper forged i210, think I would be ordering those in a heart beat . 👍

I use to play i200. They are a much softer feel then the p770’s I play now. P770 had a tighter dispersion for me and a touch longer 5 yards.

When is the i220 coming out?

@@brettbrunsell5769 I think it's going to be called i230 and I'd say later next year.

Ha 1400 but not 1800 huh

You will likely find older reviews of those on the golfwrx forums

These are in the same category, both are hollow body players irons

Both hollow, same category

I'm with halfsumo on this. These are not targeted to the same player. Just both being hollow doesn't make them a good comparison. Fan of yours Michael, and love when 770 get some love, because they perform, but not my favorite video. Different irons, different target, different goals with these imo.

Spot on. The P770 is a players distance iron according to Golf Digest. The P770 and i59 do not have the same hollow type of construction. I59 isnt really hollow since there is a metal core behind the face. The P770 is hollow with a very thin face to promote greater face flexing and thus higher ball speed. The i59 has a full lighter weight metal core to help with MOI. The i500 is the PING clubs that is more like the P770 because both are "Players Distance" clubs.

@@chroniclesofnanner9543 i500 and P770 are both "Players Distance" irons. The i59 replaces the iBlade not the i500, so these are not in the same category.

In theory, if descent angle is steep enough, the additional spin becomes redundant. The lower spin also ensures you get 'extra' distance. So, you effectively have the same stopping power but you gain distance which helps with scoring. In this case, the peak height isn't that different so there's more compromise between distance and stopping power. Your gapping and home course conditions may become more relevant to club selection.

@@FBTRodz7 I hear what you’re saying and have read into the modern irons. I am a little bit removed from modern equipment. I tried some modern “distance” irons this season. In my experience this year, I had difficulty trusting the irons with distance control. Playing knock down shots became a lottery. I put them up against my old blades. These new irons were longer in shaft length by two clubs and stronger in loft by one club. I needed 4 wedges to bridge the gaps. I just wasn’t impressed by what these irons offered me and what compromises they asked of my game. This is just my personal opinion/experience from 2-3 months with them. I have gone back to my old blades which is comfortable for me because they deliver exactly what you put in. I like playing that way but I certainly don’t want to criticise other people’s choices. We all love the game and I want everyone to enjoy it. Interesting testing them out though 👍⛳️

@@craig3775 What are your old blades?

@@tedzink4574 I have gone back to a set of Maxfli Australian Blades from 1997 3-SW

@@craig3775 Cool. Real blades give you true distances, real feedback, and the game is just as easy or hard as you make it.

It’s like ping irons haven’t been as good since PXG took 2 of their top designer/engineers 🤷‍♂️

Ecco Biom H4 Boa