I'd also encourage people to factor in the size of their room before purchasing a subwoofer. To *feel* the bass, you need it to pressurize the room. If you have an open concept floor plan, or a large open basement room, you really need to calculate the cubic feet of your area and then determine how big of a sub(s) that you need to properly pressurize it. Sure, it will still sound good, but to *feel* it is another experience altogether. Sub 20Hz bass is inaudible. That Monolith sub will hit into the teens easily, provided it isn't trying to pressurize a giant room. Just another aspect to factor in if you're thinking about taking the plunge into a dedicated theater room.
You make an interesting point, but I’m not sure I understand. "[Y]ou really need to calculate the cubic feet of your area.…" By "area" do you mean the room plus the area outside the room into which the room opens? If an open concept floor plan, that might include almost the entire house! If so, I don’t see how you could ever "properly pressurize it." And by "how big a sub you need," are you referring to power, speaker size, or what? Just wondering.…
@@tivomonkey sorry for the slow reply. When I said 'area' I just mean the room you're listening in. Open concepts are basically impossible to pressurize. People will spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to get proper pressurization for a home theater. It's amazing if you see/feel it, but it's not worth chasing that rabbit. 90% or more of people wouldn't know the difference between boom/rattle/shake bass, and actual feel it in your chest hits so hard you can see/feel your clothes move bass. If you want the best way to get that feel without breaking your bank, and without pissing off your significant other, invest in a decent small amplifier, a couple of tactile transducers (bass shakers), a wireless module to transmit your signal (or a cable if at all possible), strap those suckers to your listening position (couch, chair, love seat) and you'll feel the rumble that you'd get with sub audible bass. It's much more cost effective. When properly tuned and powered, it will take you from watching a crash scene in a movie to making you feel like you're in the crash. Definitely worth a look if you're considering this type of theater set up. Bass shakers are definitely a one trick pony, though, so make sure you read up on where and how to make the most of them.
@@tivomonkey I didn't answer all of your questions. Like Caleb talks about in his video, there's only so much you can do to circumvent the laws of physics. I hate the saying, and it will be dropped in any audio centric forum, but there really is no replacement for displacement. The larger your driver, the tuning of your enclosure, the size of your ports, the power of the amplifier, it all plays a part in what you need. There are formulas that will help you determine how big you need to go for your room. If you do a search on doing DIY subwoofers, you will get all the information to figure out what would work best for you, and those people will chase that rabbit to try and eek out an extra couple hertz from their systems. They absolutely know more about this than I do.
If you are having problems with your room, it's just a matter of using multiple subs. Downside is, they need to be calibrated. But it's something you can do yourself, with a microphone, a DSP and REW or REW + MSO. Both REW and MSO are free software. I would say that getting your chair to rumble, is a very niche market. I wouldn't want it, and I have 3 subs in my setup.
@@akyhne yeah, that's true, too. Multiple subs, like Caleb also touches on in the video, can absolutely help smooth out your bass response in your room. Excellent point. On the bass shaker aspect of things I also agree that you have to know what you're getting into. If you listen to a lot of music with your system, you don't want bass shakers for sure. It would be an odd and strange sensation I think. For home theater, though, when tuned properly and set at the right crossover so they don't engage with mid-bass, I think they're quite game changing. Personal opinion for sure, though, and sound is definitely one of the most subjective things we experience.
Probably the biggest reason why subs have a bad reputation is because they are hard to integrate properly. Most people just put them in a corner, set some arbitrary crossover and change the volume a bit, and maybe flip the phase switch a couple of times and then let it be. So it's not really uncommon that people create new nulls and peaks (other than the ones the room already created for the speakers) when they get a subwoofer which more often than not gives that "subwoofer sound". So no it's not just get a subwoofer and be happy, get it, make sure to integrate it properly and THEN be happy. And yeah, if you can get two (or more) smaller instead of one bigger that'd be even better :)
I have two SVS PB-1000’s (10” driver, 300w RMS). Bought both used a few years ago for $550 total. Strong, even, clean, beautiful bass in my home every single day; They’re freakin workhorses.
It's because it's not a mainstream subwoofer. He also said the SVS was the best subwoofer around which is not even close to real life. JTR and several others are steps above. PS. I'm not hating on Caleb at all.
I am a REL fanboy. I got a pair of S/510s for a 80/20 music/theatre setup and I absolutely love them. The speed and tightness of the bass integrates better for music IMO that your run of the mill home theatre sub. The finish on them is next level as well.
I just recently purchased the SVS SB-3000. Just one because that is what will fit in my room and was the best match for my speakers. It was a massive improvement to the previous sub I had that was a DYI prject that left much to be desired. In any event, I highly reccoment the SVS subs. Having said that, the other brans mentioned here are nothing to sneeze at, so it is hard to pick a bad sub these days. This was a great introduction to the idea of what a sub is and why you need one. Hopefully you can get in to more detail about setting up a sub, connection options and things like that in the future. Again, great video. I never knew about "808" bass. So, I learned something new.
Wondering what was the box size, type, driver, amp used in your diy sub. Also if possible wall thickness & materials of enclosure? Because for me diy subs always outperformed all of my friends svs', rel's. The only thing that came close for music was rythmik & their insane servo amps & drivers tech.
The SUB is my favorite part of any piece of audio equipment! 😍 Though I'm poor, I was still able to enjoy awesome bass from my old Logitech Z-5500 and Creative GigaWorks T3 speakers. Will be getting the Samsung HW-Q990B or Klipsch Cinema 1200 soundbar when I next upgrade my TV!
I miss my z5500. I sold it and got myself LG sn11rg because I wanted some Atmos setup. What a bad sub it has. No more feeling bass in my chest nor moving objects in my house :(
I have a Sunfire EQ True Subwoofer. 11" cube, closed system, 2700 watts on board. Designed by Bob Carver, 20 years old, caps replaced. Very satisfied with the sound. I never hear anyone mention this speaker. How is this unit compared in today's world? BTW I have 1.6 Maggies. Thanks
Subwoofers were always one of the most exciting things about getting/making a new sound system. I started with a cheapo Logitech 5.1, after a year went to a klipsch pro media 2.1 and finally started to understand bass! Have come along way since then with a decent beginner entry setup home theater, 2 grand in LCR and surround speakers with 2 monolith 15s. The desire for bigger and better never ends! There's always more impact and deeper freq. Response to chase in subwoofers.
THEN WE HAVE THE BASS HEADS CHIMING IN. I HAVE AN 18INCH SUB WITH 4000 WATTS.. THAT'S NOTHING I HAVE 10 22 INCH WOOFERS IN MY CAR WITH 12,000 WATTS.. OH YEAH.. WELL MY WOOFER IS SO BIG AND MY AMP IS SO POWERFUL THAT I NEED MY OWN POWER STATION SO THE LIGHTS DON'T GO OFF IN MY TOWN...
90s kid here. My first car was a wrecked 94 Ford escort lx wagon with over 150k miles. Car cost 500 USD used. My stereo system in the car was two 12s in a ported box with a 1500 watt amp. That wagon would hit hard pulling into school lol.
poor explanation, nothing about ported or closed systems, frequencies, dual sub systems, benefit of higher prices ranges compares to lower prices ranged….
I own a pair of the Monolith 13's and a Pair of the 10's and love them. The micro is nice if space is a problem but SVS is just much. It's very funny that you have the 16 with all 4 ports sealed. FYI....that sub is not to be sealed. If you want a sealed sub DO NOT buy a Monolith sub. Look at REL for a good sealed sub.
I bought dual F18 inch Rythmik subs a year ago. My god, the greatest subs ever. These things are sealed and can get down to 10hz, but the control is insane. The footprint is also smaller than my old Klipsch ported 15s. They blend into any system seamlessly. Totally underrated company.
Wow I just checked out their website, nice product range! Really sick designs. I'd rather buy the components and DIY it cheaper, but for those looking for the normal retail experience, the value is most definitely there.
@@wking8 Oh no I'm fully aware that's the crux of their technology, the servo control is everything. But the website makes it appear as though they sell their servo control amplifier modules and drivers specifically designed to operate with said amplifiers separately. So while it wouldn't be as cheap a DIY project as one could find, it is cheaper than their pre-made units. I don't think they sell kits so you'd basically have to build a box, but you'd get the servo amp and from their literature it seems the servo control design is dependent on specific driver parameters so you'd need their driver too. Based on their own literature the box volume is less important precisely because of the servo-tech, and can be chosen based either on size considerations, or to optimize a certain roll-off frequency - in conjunction with the amp settings. Pricing was not given, so I guess I'm not 100% sure that you can buy these units for building, as opposed to these being replacement devices for customers. But if they won't sell them, other DIY servo options exist. I suspect a proper quality DIY version could save you 50% in cost.
I bought two SVS PB3000 for my livingroom setup. First tested with one and it was great. Second day hooked up the other sub and it was waaaay better. So if you have a budget for subwoofer, buy preferably two smaller than one large.
I went from an 8" down firing Klipsch to the PB-1000 and now I can say I'm feeling that low, deep bass in movies. I love it. Game changer in terms of enjoying films. It's not the PB-3000 nor the 16 ultra, but it can still rattle my house to the point that I need to tell my in-laws who live on the other side of the firewall (brand new bigeneration) when I'm listening to loud music or watching a movie or else they wonder what's happening! True story. 😂
Go big. Two full Marty style cabs ported at 17Hz with 18" Dayton UM's, NX6000 4400W RMS stereo amp @ 4Ohm, and MiniDSP 2x4HD for EQ/phase/high pass. They fill out for the Klipsch 7 channel system which is all bookshelf speakers and one center channel. While the AVR handles virtual 4 channel Atmos with the 7 channel speakers. I can easily push past the THX specs for reference level bass in movies, giving me plenty of headroom when I really want to play it loud. Also gives me very clean response when I run them at lower listening levels, which is most of the time.
I used to own a pair or REL S12 SHO's which were awesome. REL subs are just the best for movies and music. I bought the pair used at a hifi store for $2000 even though they lookd and sounded like new except they were missin the grills (which I would have never used anyway) I sold them to pay for a family vacation for $3500 a year later and still miss them.
I don't understand when a 2500w sub became affordable. That doesn't even work on a regular 15A circuit, you need new wiring and a fitting outlet on its own 20A circuit just for the sub, not counting the TV and other speakers lol. These are all great for big detached houses or extremely soundproofed rooms as any neighbors will feel these at almost any volume and some of them cost over $1000. Most people listen to stuff on their phone, TV speakers or sound bar, so even $500 speakers are crazy to them.
IMHO, you don't need a large subwoofer. 10" sub is good enough. RSL is my favourite. Modern day loudspeakers produced really good bass already hence small sub is ideal. SVS looks good too. Compact!
Years ago I had 2 18” Cerwin Vega subwoofers ( no mids or highs) in my Cutlass. I wore out my DJ Magic Mike tape annoying all my neighbors. Good times.
lol..similar.. I had two 18" EV subs in the trunk of my Z24 bolted directly to the back seat braces, being pushed by a 1k watt JBL amp. I did have Clarions in the back deck and doors for mids and highs tho. I wore out my Shaq Diesel tape. :)
Picked up a monolith 10’ sub a couple months back definitely way more sub then is needed for most homes. going to pick up another down the road for a more full LFE experience.
Went from a ported 12 inch Infinity to a SB16-Ultra a few years ago and love this thing! I agree that it's the best subwoofer overall, especially for a mixed use living room setup. This sub blends perfectly with my Revel Performa3 HT setup. Love the channel! Can't wait for CES 2023 coverage soon. Hope to hear about that 77 inch QD OLED.
@@InnovationStudiosLtd well it’s in a living room and I didn’t want a massive sub dominating the room. If I had a dedicated media room I’d probably get a bigger ported sub.
All my speakers are 25 year old Klipch, KLF20s, KLFC7, KSPS6s, KSW300, 50th anniversary legend series, think forte drivers in a tower, the wife was not amused
I have a Sony system, and the subwoofer is an essential part of it. It's somewhere in between those two sizes. It totally slaps even at a low setting. I can't even imagine what it would do dialed all the way up.
I have a SVS PC 13 Ultra. Some of you may not know this but it's a cylinder shaped subwoofer. Sits in the corner and people always wonder what it is and I just tell him let me turn it on for you and then I watch their jaw drop. Still pounds after many years of use.
I put 2 of those Monolith 16 inch subs in my living room last year and I have 0 regrets. They can make an action movie really come to life but also give fast finessed bass in any music. They can go to 11 which makes them amazing when only at a 2.
I have two of their 12s and am adding a 15 this week to replace a Polk 12. So yeah 3 subs two 12s and a 15 will work well for my large high ceiling room and for movies I love have that nice low freq response.
Mom and dad had a Datsun B210 when we were kids. The floor pans were rusted through, and my cousin and I would peel back the floor mats and drop little rocks from the driveway onto the asphalt as dad was driving, LOL. A sub in that car would have shaken apart the little bit of metal that the rust was holding together! I know what you mean about the amp/sub being worth more than the car itself. I went to high school with a guy who had the perfect hiding place for 5 grand worth of gear: a cream colored 80s model Ford LTD.
his right back in late 80s & 90s was all about BIG ass boom bass box back in trunk & loud music mids & highs superior speakers & amps piled up in back ..just glass shattering, i was one of them back in my Pontiac Fiero with BIG spoiler in back & in my Acura integara ...ahhh good ole days teenager & in 20s youth years was
Me, I'm the guy at the red light that's shaking your car. I've been into car audio for over 20 years. I'll be 90 in an electric flying car, still slamming. Lol
When you realize you overpaid for your teeny crappy speakers. You come to the realization that now you have to spend more money on a subwoofer. I learned my lesson years ago that's why I buy Towers only. They have plenty of base without the need for a subwoofer. Thank you very much !
Hahaha. I love this guy. "Eating oil for breakfast" haha. I grew up in the 80-90's and the beginning of this vid was great. Thanks. Btw who doesn't have a sub in there HT setup?
I have two Velodyne Deep Blue 10 in my system. For 10" sealed subwoofers they go really deep (even below 20 hz) and are very precice once properly set up in the room! They integrate perfectly with my speakers, I love them.
I have SVS and Monolith for two different systems. Both are excellent. Take a look at Dirac Live Bass Control for music especially. Bass requires good tunning in every room.
I have car subwoofer as my main subwoofer for my home audio system with dedicated amplifier and eq with 31 bands, amazing! ❤️ Very deep bass and power! 👌🏻
Must be cultural or areas specific. 808 Bass never went out of style around here. Im 49, bass heavy car stereo is just as relevant now as 1985. Cars just come with much better oem systems than in the past. Home theater, on the other hand, has evolved into a true art form. It's traditionally easier to acquire a vehicle than a house. Very few 20-30 yo arent renting. Kind of hard to install Dolby Atmos ceiling speakers in a rental, can mess with the security deposit😂
I have just 16m2 but with 48m3 volume and K15. There is just one spot in my room, where I can hear a clear 23 Hz tone - the opposite corner of the room. Clear 25 Hz is right in the middle. It peaks, right before distortion at 96 dB at 25 Hz. The best part is, that the same 25 Hz is right outside my room when I open the doors to my hall. Hall is 7 meters x 1,5 meter and apparently, with doors opened, it acts like this infinite port. At the end of it, there is literally 115 dB @25 Hz, 111 dB at 23 Hz, 97 dB at 19 Hz and 89 dB at 17 Hz. This 89 dB at 17 Hz maybe isn't big and all but I can visualize what's happening, it's like one side of the rooms air is pressing on the other side of the room and I can hear/feel it veeeery clearly. To the point I feel like I'm gonna be sick/crying or something. Even better is that I live in the apartment and the room door is around 1.8 m from main door. And when I open it, main door and room door and play 25 Hz tone, it spills in the entire staircase filling it with this immense bass, resonating. When I close just my rooms door it stops, it's 45 dB at 25 Hz. It literally crushes like 40 dB of output just this door closing. That's how overpowered my hall is with this 25 Hz tone. My point is, I'd suck one for a 17-25 Hz output from my hall but in my room instead and that acoustic is a bitch.
It's amazing what proper bass reinforcement can do for audio enjoyment, music or movie. I desperately wanted a sub until I was able to find a pair of BIC America RTR-EV15s on sale. Brutal old-school floorstanders with integrated 15" speakers. While they don't dig to sub-20 Hz like the better dedicated subs can, they drop below 30 Hz with ease and bass rolls off smoothly below 25-27 Hz. The net effect is bottom end which feels endless, effortless, and natural. Powered off my Yamaha A1080, these behemoths will easily have dishes rattling in the upstairs cupboards. From what I've experienced, a sub capable of outperforming them would be pushing at least a grand. Maybe more. Sure, I don't have the tunability a dedicated sub would provide, but with a few tweaks I have my system sounding far better than it's modest overall price would suggest. Are big floorstanders the answer for everyone? No. There is absolutely no way these giant black chunks of sound would ever pass spousal muster anywhere except our basement home theater setup. For aesthetic reasons, a dedicated sub would be more appropriate in other locations. I'd still love to have something like the big Monolith you reviewed. I've heard its M-15 sibling and it's unreal. I can only imagine what the 16 Ultra could do. Unfortunately I just can't justify it given the performance I already have.
98% of people don't know how to integrate Subs. If you've got 2 (and you should have) GET THEM OFF THE FLOOR!!!! Get them at different heights, yes it's inconvenient and might look strange, but Subs aren't for looking nice.
For movies a sub Is not necessary..neither a 7.? Av...a good 2.1 old style set Is a fantastic solution. HT Is a big Mac with coke vs an angus rib eye with Chianti .
A lot of tiny 8/10" subwoofers are not even subs. They are just "woofers". The box store bargains have zero energy under 40hz, which is sub bass. Guys want to cheap out on a sub, and they end up blowing up these toys trying to make them do what a real sub does. Tiny , weak voice coils and weak amps + high gain= recipe for disaster. I advise to save money and buy a real sub that meets sub specs. Real bass isn't just a loud blob at 60-80hz.
I'm still using my 2 first gen paradigm servo 15s and a paradigm Pdr12 for mid bass. I get good performance but also very accurate bass for music. Especially with concert Blu rays.
I havev5 subwoofeers 2 svs and 1 dual with sealed and ported. And a good floor standing channels. To enhance movievascwell as music . That's more than a 7 or 10 or 11 channel type music enjoyment..sub's are heart of music. Its something u feel more than hear ..
What's your take on hiding a doghouse sized box from the middle of the living room? Most are fugly at best, and putting them in a living room feels like an unholy sacrifice. All other speakers have a way shape or form to be hung from the wall, the roof, etc. Soundbars are designed to go under the height of the TV, but it seems larger subwoofer designers all agree the large ugly box is a-OK. What's the largest, best sounding subwoofer that fits inside the bdi corridor?
Added to this, how about tall mounting or similar techniques on subwoofers? There are several subwoofers that are about the same size of a computer case, and there are several under desk mounts for pcs. Would it be possible to hang the subwoofer from the tv's stand without introducing too many vibrations and ruining the sound?
@@tomascampabadal7485 I suppose it is possible as long as you had some isolation feet or a platform between the rack and the sub. As for the BDI cabinet. A 12 or 13-inch sealed sub should fit in that cabinet since most will be from 12" to 15" square. Depending on your budget that could be from a $150 elac to a $600 SVS, Rel or B&W. Just make sure you have isolation feet.
You need subs to be at least 12” away from any surfaces and mounting it to a tv stand would sound awful We hide ours by putting it behind a sofa chair It’s in the front left corner of the room with a single seat sofa chair that faces back into the room, so when watching a movie someone probably isn’t sitting there And there’s a few feet of space between the sofa chair They also sell slim rectangular ones you can slide underneath a sofa if you have the clearance
Thumbs down, this video was nothing but an advertisement for SVS. you did little to talk about why we need a subwoofer or the differences between large and small subwoofers. Your video did little to help anyone learn about subwoofers.
I have a super classic velodyne cht 12 inch woofer box. This thing weighs maybe 150 lb or so. It was bought from j&R music World.. yes that historic place from consumer electronic history in New York. But I've always had it tied to a fairly lowly yet lovely receiver, a pioneer vsx 812 cira 2008ish. Never really did have the patience to replace the receiver until the last few years when it was obvious that the sound stage had deteriorated. I have front +center polk twin woofer bookshelves and dipole polks as rears. 5.1. I am aiming to move overseas and not sure what's going to happen with this beast of a unit. I remember the damn near one year of research just to get this system together and I was a huge consumer electronics guy and it was still very tough to fit a decent budget together.
Yeah the base on this thing rolls so heavy that neighbors will definitely hate you. I dream of one day having my own home that's not attached... Let me roll that bass damn it LOL
nobodys talking about normal 6inch stereo woofers , where we would hear the thump only after turning the volume high enough, also how the sound was almost flat with equal mid's lows & highs, i donn't like listening to todays 2.1/5.1 systems with tiny satellites, i have made my own stereo system with my sony cd players speakers and a class d stereo amp with my own fine tuned baxandal tone control.
All I know I was colored by an old school 2.1 Sound system back in day on old computer that it I gave my brother a cheap $50 dollar sub to his stereo system and he loved it when I wired into his system!
I hate the temporal smearing and hangover of box speakers. My speakers are Magneplanars. I have open baffle servo subwoofers from Rhythmik/ GR Research and my in-room response is -3 dB to 15 Hz with extreme "tightness," "Speed" and musicality. I use DEQX for crossover, amplitude and group-delay correction.
