Welcome to Israelhvac's RU-vid Channel. On this channel i bring you along on HVAC Service calls, HVAC Maintenance and pretty much anything else HVAC related. Enjoy and thanks for watching.
This is what other youtubers wont show. This is real world situations that you run into all the time. Other youtubers are scared of getting bashed so they only show the good calls. Great job man
I used to service these units all the time when I worked for Sears. These old beasts have a double row coil in them, and dirt or (in our area) cotton from a cottonwood tree will get between the two condenser coils. When you have high head pressure, pull the top and take out the screws that hold the plate that ties the two coils together. Separate the inner and outer coil, and clean the Hell out of them. If you do that, I guarantee your head pressure will drop and your superheat numbers will look a lot better. Those old units are war horses and will run for a long time it they're properly maintained. Having said that, this unit hasn't been properly maintained, so it will probably shoot craps on a really hot and humid Friday afternoon.
1:39 That unit has a double horseshoe condesnser. Head preasure is out of range because the inner coil is dirty. Pull the top. Remove thr. screws on right side to give you some space between the two coils. Rinse with water. Foaming coil cleaner will not cut it. 45 years experince. I remember when that design was new.
Customer says I can’t come inside. I say you can’t have AC then. I need to see the whole system. Not just part of it. Don’t trust me then I don’t service you. Nuff said.
I installed many of those Whirpool / Kenmore models back in mid 80's and still have many working great. Hell my grandparents had one just like that installed in 1980 a year before I started in the HVAC trade and a father and son team replaced a old Amonia AC unit that my grandparents had installed in the late 50's or early 60's. The installer punctured a Amonia line and it almost killed him and put him in the hospital for 5 days I was told. My grandparents were the only people in thier neighbor who had central AC and a color TV and a inground pool and had the party house for all the neighborhood to hang back in the day. RE Michel Co sold that Whirpool model and switched to TEMPSTAR in the late 80's.Damn I feel old now lol.Gonna hit 93 degrees in Baltimore MD tomorrow $$$
Good call on this one John. Prime example of when it's time for replacement. And as far as analog gauges go, I use them every day along with a pipe clamp and my fieldpiece meter
You were right about people crying that you should fix the thing but what these people fail to realize is that the time involved in repairing this unit is all a huge waste if next week the condenser fan goes then a week later the contactor goes, the following week the capacitor shits out on you. I've had it happen here in northeast Ohio with multiple heating failures on an old gas furnace where the customer said "why didn't you just suggest replacing it the first time it failed?" I told him because my crystal ball was broken and I had no way of knowing his board would go out 3 weeks after the blower motor went out. If you sink an excessive amount of money into old equipment you can have an unhappy customer as well, it's a roll of the dice.
Joe Shearer i bet the cond was filthy, and no i dont think this guy is amazing but yes that drier was clogged and that would give you the symptoms he had. I just bet there is more than just a clogged drier. Like you said i bet the cond is filthy. With that said. The issue that brought that unit down was the clogged drier. He was right on this one.
If the management company was paying the power bill they would have changed it 20 years ago. I had a unit like that acting similar and pulled out probably in the early 80’s. I put in the most efficient condenser I could find, an 11 seer Ruud with the double coils and fans. Knocked $100 off the power bill the first month and it was July. The old unit was about a 7 seer. The tenant is going to love the new unit. It will pay for itself in a year but it’s different pockets.
At risk of expressing an unpopular viewpoint...I disagree. Throughout your discussion about this air conditioner, the only sin it seems to have committed is that of being old. And while it's not all that efficient or pretty to look at any more, it seemed to be running fine otherwise. I would have fixed it "the right way" by changing the filter/dryer rather than draining away some of the charge to limp it along. The customer might not have any idea what any part of an air conditioner is or does, but they would have noticed things working like they used to, rather than the merely acceptable performance they are getting now. And I think that would foster a tremendous amount of goodwill. People remember more than anything else how they were treated and when it did lay down and die, they'll call the guy who treated them right to put that new system in. Maybe I'm totally wrong here. I certainly don't know the unit's service history, and if it is a recurring problem (as you hinted in the video), that really does change things. It's also not my intention to cause a problem.
In @Israelhvac defense I did had similar problem last year and suggested to replace or fix, after fixing multiple problems in one day the customer called back 2 days later ready to replace. Ultimately it was the landlord replacing and when the customer was giving them fire about the out of pocket they stepped up to replace.
Just wondering...if it was the dryer wouldn't the side after the restriction be at very low pressure and then considerably cooler? I mean a piston or txv is just an intentional restriction right? Just trying to figure it out.....
HVACR Atlanta: I'm not calling anyone's experience into question here. :-) I can't be in front of that unit to pick up on what it's trying to tell me, so all I had to go on was the indicated temperature differential around that filter/dryer and the extremely high head pressure. Were I there, I'd certainly have had a look around to see what the unit and its surroundings were saying.
Thanks John. The problem is not fter drier. Dirty inner condenser. Those units have 2 coils. Regardless. People would rather using old system that draws crazy amps flushing their money than new system and saving big in bills. But I'm just a Tech not sales pitch guy.
Seems like the condenser coil needs to be cleaned... If the dryer were completely clogged, the head pressure would drop off to that associated with ambient temperature. The suction would of course go to vacuum. There's nothing wrong with that dryer. Once you replace a HIGH QUALITY, LONG LASTING old piece of equipment with modern junk, it's all over for the customer. They'll never see a reasonable service life again. CLEAN THE COIL!
Diagnosis may have been incorrect but the end solution should still be the same. The unit doesn't owe the customer anything and nothing lasts forever. Might as well get it over with as its probably going to crap out in the near future. Why wait till everything shits the bed before doing a preemptive change out?
@@TheGhettoLobster - The age of the unit isn't a cash cow for the vendor either. What should have been done is to resolve the problem IF it can be resolved, rather than assuming an old piece of gear will not last much longer. If you wanna be a technician, then be technical. If you wanna read Tarot cards for hire, then that's a different business. ;) If a condenser cleaning dropped the liquid temperature, then the customer is getting maintenance and a problem is solved. If the cleaning doesn't solve it, then that's the time to suggest to the customer that the machine has reached the end of its useful service life.
that unit probably has a two speed condenser fan and a switch in the condenser that went bad for low ambient operation. make sure fan is running high speed and clean the condenser coils. Technicians shouldn't be removing gas they should be recovering refrigerant.
I also had 5-6 old whirlpools with the slanted coils and the baish finish these units are original and now only one is left and is still in business along with a carrier round one and a Coleman Evcon and, 2 General Electric units. The point is they still work and are probably older than this unit by 5 years. Though, the other 4 whirlpools were hauled out. And when I return to my country club again I hope they are still their.
I know this an old video but a very good video showing how the real world really is. That machine has served its time. Time for new. That being said I woulda gave em options to keep it goin IF they didn’t have the means to replace it. It for sure coulda used a good bath and I betcha that would got the head down some. Also remember that those old machines did run a higher head than some newer 22 systems. Good vid!!
I agree that the unit is not worth it but your problem is high head need to clean the condensor coil and check the motor blade pitch or what ever basically need to cool the condensor
Thirty years old? That's just getting broken in. Mine is 40 years old and still works great! I installed it myself from a local company who offered DIY kits. The only thing I couldn't do was fabricate the plenum for the evaporator coil.
That unit was worth changing a filter drier by compared to the cost of whole new system. Now once the compressor an expensive part replacement goes then it's worth a new unit. I'm maintaining a unit like that and when I say maintaining I mean just checking it each year. The customer always ask about replacing it and I tell him as long as it's working and cooling I wouldn't touch it. This I didn't tell him is that a new one would not last as long this one has for 40 years.
My keeprite is going to turn 35 in one month's time. It has never broken down, leaked, or even faltered once in the 20+ years we've owned this house. Runs so quietly and cools the house so easily. Even capacitors were original up until a few months ago. A co worker and I changed them one day after work. The original ones had oil on top and would probably have failed fairly soon. .it cost me nothing more than purchasing the capacitors. Having said all that, as much as I would hate to give this gem up, when it leaks or finally does shit the bed, it will be replaced post haste...why bother holding onto something that's past its useful life?
Good job 👍🏻 Love real life stuff John That unit isn’t even worth cleaning coil But I’m surprised you didn’t just to see the head drop Sometimes we are just janitors
David Duda sometimes I will rinse the coil. If it is dirt and not corrosion you'll see the head climb right back up after the water dries. Time to let go of the past. Life expectancy in st tex for a unit on the coast is 5 to 10 years. Complaining about a 30 year unit. Ha.
Do you think airflow for the condenser could have also been a factor? Dirty coil? Failing fan motor? Obviously the solution is to replace the unit... Just curious if the filter dryer was the sole cause of the high head pressure.
Brad B on older units electrolysis occurs where the copper and aluminum are pressed together causing corrosion. Corrosion is an insulator that prevents the rejection of heat from the copper to the aluminum. No amount of cleaning reverses this process. In an older unit multiple factors are in play from varnish build up on the copper tubing to lower performance of the fan to dirt on the coil to a possible partially restricted drier etc. An old corroded teardrop coil is your biggest contributor. A new unit would cost a $100 dollars less a month to operate. Wonder how long it would take to pay itself off. Sometimes the savings on the electric bill actually make the payment. Call me crazy.
That unit has seen better days. Time for R&R for it. To go and just repair what is wrong is one thing if it was still in great shape and the compressor was in excellent shape. That needs major repairs and the compressor was not sounding happy. Good call.
This is the type of call I'd love to get. If the customer agrees to dump maybe...650$ish in repairs or love to try and get that thing running top notch again. These old Kenmore's are monsters. I wouldn't guarantee shit tho!hahah
TheACKid you are a kid that knows very little about hvac. You might know just enough to cause problems. Stop telling seasoned techs they don’t know what they are doing. Are you fresh out of school?? You will learn more by listening and less running your mouth!!!👎🏻👎🏻
I agree with you John. As others have stated. This was a real world call. It’s not black and white. I would have done the same thing. I’m sure the coil was beat as well. I have to feel good about any repair that I propose. That thing could lose that compressor or bust a leak any second. That compressor has been running hard with high head for how long ??? In my opinion you and your company made the right call. No disrespect to anyone that would have changed the dryer. But it’s 30 years old , enough is enough.
I agree with the final outcome of this video.... MAYBE cleaning the outside coil and or spending 2 hours with a fin comb and changing the dryer and spitting into the wind would have made sense to some of the so called techs out there.... but I would have rather moved on and suggested the customer do the same. It was time to draw the line... PAST time.
TheACKid yea then the unit goes out a few weeks later and you look like a fool. I have done this on old units before after someone else had condemned it and yes the customer was happy till it had to be replaced within a month. That was way back in early 90’s when I was just starting out. This guy did everything right and I’m here to tell you a total cleaning new drier and anything else that pops up while doing all this is not cheap for a unit thats on its way out. You live and learn
Good idea would have been to check temp coming out of condenser discharge and if hot dirty cond coil and fan motor amps and rotation, just as a lesson for teaching. I agree with the call to replace though. Good call.
If it would've pumped down ,its risky could've of stressed that compressor just enough ,and then you get blamed ! Definitely made the right choice in my opinion, I wouldn't have done much more
You can fix and repair anything! And then it’s still 30 years old! Let’s say you fix that problem for say $300 and then the compressor goes out on pumpdown now you have to tell the customer they need a new compressor too? Or let’s say you made the repair and it worked great and goes out in a few days... your right uxwbill the customer doesn’t know the difference between a three prong capacitor and a flux capacitor but he will know you charged him $300 dollars 2 days ago and now it’s broken again. If you take money for a repair the customer will expected to stay fixed for some time no matter what they say to the contrary. A good technician would expect that unit to die at any second no matter how many parts you throw at it. There will be no good will as you say, after you take there money and it still breaks down that same summer. Without a working flux capacitor on your time machine there’s not a damn thing you can do for that unit!
everything has a life expectancy,30 years for a condenser is great when typically in the south they last 10-15 yrs and thats with proper maintenance besides the cost to recover ,replace dryer ,vacuum ,and recharge a 30yr old system,your asking for more problems ...i can only imagine what the 30yr old evaporator looks like.....good call
I would replace that thing regardless of any issues.. giving the customer a price to repair the drier and recharge with freon etc, he agrees, you replace drier and blow the lines with nitrogen, clean her up and it ends up having issues again a little while later for whatever reason and then you look like the bad guy because to the customer, they “paid you to fix it”...so now get it workingg or its your fault.. better just replace and put that money towards a new system..
speaking of old, My parents house has a 1993ish goodman unit that still running great surprisingly. Only thing that has ever had to be done was change a capacitor. It was grandmas house but my parents inherited when they passed. Furnace had to be changed out though. She was a senior citizen and got a new unit on a state run program which of course threw another goodman in there. But at least it works.
How do you know it wasn't overcharged due to a restricted piston. Data supports your decisions. No doubt that unit arrived with Columbus but, don't let your guard down.
The condenser didn't look dirty enough to cause high head pressure. There were probably multiple things going on here. Partially restricted drier, coil corrosion where the aluminum fins mate to the copper, build up of contaminates inside the condenser tubing reducing heat transfer and possible valve problems because of how slow it went from 100 psi down to 75. Maybe not on that one though and no superheat to gauge it by. Bottom line a 30 year old unit has done it's time. Is fair to have the customer invest 300 or 400 dollars on a filter change out on a unit that will still only go down to 15 amps when a new one with 10 year parts will only run 8 to 9 amps. I didn't see a service valve which might have been added more to the cost. Choices yeah, but steering the customer to a new unit will actually pay for itself in the energy savings alone. Plus the new unit will have more capacity. It is amazing what you can show if you do a capacity test on a system.
I agree with the units that are about gone. If a system has a Freon leak, I’m not gonna spend extra time trying to perfect a recharge. To me, get them some cooling and let them know it may not last long. Hell, it’s leaking as you drive off. Wasted time in my opinion.
That unit is to old way to old, just for the record. How's the outdoor coil I think that's a double coil machine and right in the middle of it sometimes they get really filthy. And I would recomend replacing the unit for something more efficient and quieter, as I said that unit is to old.
That was the exact same air conditioning unit that we had at our house when I was a kid, it had a 2 blade though. Ran great all the way up until we decided to put a heatpump in. Those were built like tanks. It was installed in the 70s, I think its a 70s unit.
OK I hope you’re talking about the entire system that’s a r22 system they’ve stopped r22 manufacturing when was this video made tel me you not replacing just the condenser
o4:39 should have called the problem by now.. Maybe the tech is distracted with making the video or showing off his toys. The head is to high. Nothing wrong with drier. Some of those units have two speed condenser fans - was the fan turning at it's high speed? If so clean the conditioner. A restricted dryer liquid line dryer would cause a temperature drop not increase - that was misuse of his clamp on temp sensor. A lot of equipment gets changed because the tech get bonuses for selling equipment. This guy probably don't know any better than to post this homeowner focused video. A lot of trouble shooting errors in this video. For me the biggest error is the display of the tech's ignorant of the HVAC fundamentals and he so arrogance that he is doing the customer a favor.
so true here larry,,,a general PM service would be nice here,include a full report on the system after a coil clean and a look at the evap coil and cleaning of same...but wear a face mask inside the house so you can breath
@@larryames8831 the pot calling the kettle black. I'm willing to bet everything that fan motor only has 1 speed. For the most part I agree he's really not the knowledgeable because I'm sure the unit is either dirty or possibly the motor spinning the wrong way
