I bought my first EV because of your reports, it's a classic ionic, and I am still happy with it, thank you Teslabjörn. Until today I can't understand why Hyundai never made a successor to this car. This was clearly a people's car, that kind of car we need. The only things on my wishlist was a legal towing hook and a Battery around 50 kwh. Instead they made huge SUVs for an unaffordable price, what a disappointment. Good cars, but consumption almost doubled as well as the price. To this day I cannot see a replacement for this car in the market. So I will drive it on and hope that nothing expensive breaks. Hyundai Parts are ridiculously expensive.
I completely agree. But I have a Kona 64 (13 kWh/100 in 55 K km) and it's a decent and comparable car though being SUV-like. We should be careful with the motor/reduction gear bearings problem for both cars
I made this test a few months ago with my ID.3 from 3/2021 with ~175.000km. Got 47,5kWh out of it from 100-0%. I also made this test when the car was new, there i got 54kWh out of it. So 13% Degradation on my car. There is also a degradation test from the VW-workshop, there it also was 13% degradation and 47% DC charging. Now the car has 190.000km and still works fine.
I see this trend also in my car, same battery, around 50kwh usable @ 125.000 km. When I had the car at 50.000 km it had 52.5 kWh usable so degradation really slows down which is a good thing.
I have a 2019 Hyundai Ioniq 28 kWh with over 155 000 km on the counter. And I have a 2022 Model 3 RWD with 58 700 km on the counter. The Ioniq is ALWAYS the consumption winner.
Would be really interesting to see a degradation test on the some of the stellantis cars, there are very little data on these cars like citroen e-c4, peugeot e-208, e-2008, opel corsa-e, mokka-e, ds.
The pre restyling models have a very large buffer - 43kwh usable out of 50kwh net. I have a 2022 e208 that I intentionally charge to 80% and at 55000km I still have 98,5% soh reported by OBD and a 100 to 0 range of about 300km in summer (250-280 in winter)
There is one test on youtube on a e-208 using aviloo, but he was driving at 140-150km/h and i guess that would cause a lot of heat loss in battery and drivetrain.
I love these videos with older cars. For many of us, this is what's interesting, we'll maybe buy an older car or we plan to use it for a long time. Not all of us leases cars and change every second year. I prefer buying and keeping, which makes the economics a lot better.
This is a nice test, classic Ionic vs. classic ID.3 ;) Regarding the possible degradation, my ID.3 with the 77kWp was never even close to 77 usable capacity when it was new ;)
I am starting to think that at MEB cars - it's not a degradation, but intentionally made thing , maybe through the updates. My ID.4 77 kwh which I bought used with 47000 km have the same 11 % degradation, 69 kwh usable energy (according to a CarScanner) . I drove a 15000 km with it in 9 months, and do not see any sign that battery capacity becomes even smaller. I hope this will stay like that.
Try to discharge to 3-5% and charge to 100%. I had the same 69kwh usable. After deep discharge-charge CarScanner shows again ~73kwh. After 70km I'm pretty sure that vw uses big buffers and we shouldnt count from claimed 77kwh as we never get 77kwh usable as it is claimed by vw
@@edvardasremeika3331 The same story for me I had 69kwh after winter, I charged it to 100% from low state and now its back to 72,5kwh in CarScanner and in real life testing after 35k. I 'm not 100% sure but I don't thing I have ever seen more then 75kwh on it when it was new.
My ID.3 also shows the same 53 kWh in CarScanner as in the video. I really think it's a buffer of some kind, it wouldn't make sense that all the cars have exactly the same degradation.
@@edvardasremeika3331 its balancing the cell voltage. VW's official values are 82 gross, 77 net. If they have increased the buffer even further, they would have to declare this and also correct the WLTP range, otherwise they would be committing a criminal offense. Or it was not intended and they messed up the software (again).
1.5% degradation is impossible, it is obvious that Ioniq has a hidden buffer that is used over time to overcome degradation. On the other hand, most ID3s have higher than expected degradation. Mine after 3 years and 60000 km is at around 50.5 KWh. I think original software on first ID3s was allowing more capacity to discharge, I think you should consider 55 KWh as 100%, like in your ID3 facelift test - it seems 3.x software has reduced the available capacity.
Ioniq for the win. Probably the best used car for buying. The issue in MEB cars, maybe they chose the wrong battery provider, maybe the BMS is not managing the battery correctly, who knows...
I have a cupra born 58kwh 2 years old and i have driven 75000km in it, and i have testet it 2 times, one time in January this year where it had about 50kwh useable (about 10% degradation) and one time for about an week ago and it had 51,185kwh useable (about 7% degradation ), and it was after a trip to italy from Denmark and back again, so i did charge it to 100% before the drive down there and before the trip home, so i think when people don't charge their car to 100% at all, because people where told to keep it at maximum 80%, so they never calibrate the battery, and then it will degrade that way, it's just a thought, because we charge it to 100% maybe every month or so, because we have family a bit far away, but like i said, it's just a thought🙂
Some manufacturers actually do it indeed, the 64 kWh Kona also has quite large invisible buffers, classic Ioniq too. The Ioniq 5 shows real degradation again. The ID3 with smaller 52kwh also has a humongous buffer. 7 kWh of buffer.
If I remember correctly there is a scientific test ongoing for the id3 with constant charge and discharge from a university and degredation was quite good.
Would love to see the degradation on an Ioniq 5 now it’s out a few years. Great comparison to the classic Ioniq. Interesting to see if the got lucky or brought the learning into the eGMP platform.
There are some flaws. All my testing suggests that VW software is actually underreporting consumption by 6 % (I did tests using the energy that gets used, the energy that is recuperated and distance driven compared to onboard results). So if the car says 14.5 kWh, it's actually 15.4 kWh. And then you even saw that the car is underreporting distance (222 instead of real 225 km) but you simply take the final distance at face value. You haven't driven 337 km, it was actually 341 km. 341 * 15.4 equals 52.5 kWh. Plus the 550 Wh of 2 % SOC remaining is a total of 53 kWh instead of 55 kWh when it launched. Or just under 4 % degredation.
How do you think the car calculate Wh/km? It takes the energy (kWh) used and divides it by the distance it *thinks* it is. So my method is actually correct.
I drove 206 miles from 100% to 8% yesterday with my Enyaq 60, consumption was 4.3miles/KWh - 144wh per kilometer. I worked it out to 51.5 kWh capacity which is really low. The car is less than 2 years old and it has done 33000 miles. As much as I like the car, my next one won't be anything from MEB family.
A lot of guesswork here. The data of my Id.3: 3.5 years old, ownership since new, supposingly the 58 kw/h Modell?, nearly 120k km, ca. 55 kw/h battery capacity now, no wallbox at home, ca. 80 to 90% DC fast charging. Cheers
As people have said, previously, and also below, first gen MEB batteries take a big hit early on, but then seem to settle down for the duration. I'm expecting better things from the next gen MEBs, just starting to emerge. In fact, if they turn out well, I'll renew my lease car with one, to replace my current TM3LR, which has been faultless so far, at 40k/km. I had considered taking it on directly, at the end of the lease, but the Chief Exec has put me off the whole idea now.
@bjornnyland , Didn't the Ioniq have initially a 30,5 kWh gross / 28 kWh net capacity, when it was new? This would make it a 25.6 kWh / 28 kWh = 91,4% capacity or 8,6% degradation, which is still very good, but sounds far more plausible.
@@mateuszbalon3762 Sorry but it never was. I think Hyundai measured what goes in the battery and claimed 28 kWh. But for driving it's not important what goes in, it's important what goes out. And so you measure Degradation. You want to know what goes out.
This time I disagree. There is no such high degradation. I have id3 ProS and from brand new CarScanner shows max. battery capacity 73kwh. After 70k km I still have the same. I always get ~70kwh. One problem that Vw doesn't give us promised 77kwh. There are big buffers.
Then you seem to be in luck. The numbers shown in the video seem to be valid. And VW deliberately uses such a large buffer, because it partially can hides the degredation.
Something similar is probably going on with the Ioniq. Nameplate capacity is 30.5 kWh, while only ~26 kWh is usable. Though it seems Ioniq's buffer is at the top end, with (almost?) nothing at the bottom.
Had same problem with 77kwh id3, After 2years and 25000km i tested 67kwh usable only. Even if you add 3kwh of low buffet, it was more than 10% dégradation!
Really like these videos, and they can teach us a lot. But the values you get on the cars you test are probably not completely representative of the cars. It probably depends a lot on how the cars have been driven. But thanks for your work 👍
Please do next a Kona 64 kWh. My car is 2021 face lift model, reporting soh of 90.7% on a Obd Car Scanner. 58.1 kWh left in a battery after 32000 miles. The car was just 3 times rapid charged. The rest of the charging was done on a 7.4 kw home charger up to 70- 80% state of charge and once every month or two charged to 100%.
Our 64kwh e-soul has 0% degradation (its still not used all of the large buffer) after 2 .5 years and 60k kms. Always try to avoid charging in direct sunlight though and little rapid charging.
In my cupra born 58 kWh, I've never seen more than 53.3 kWh in car scanner, and it seems likely a common status with other owners. But sometimes 100% lasts even for 8-10 km, other times 500 m. Quite strange, the bms does strange calculations or whatsoever.
We had the same issue with Zoe. After a BMS update we got from 85procent to 96 procent. 46000km ZE50. The oldest Zoe always get 98 procent SOH after BMS update.
Is it really 1.5% if you have a top buffer ? I think it's a legit strategy from Hyundai to have a top buffer to artificially reduce degradation but you cannot compare that number with other Evs because it feels like it's only a Hyundai/Kia party trick.
IONIQ glide about 250 meters further than ID3. It has 93km/h at 5:28 just before 700m sign. ID3 has the same speed at 14:19 and reaches the IONIG's sign 10 seconds later.
Thanks for the test. Do you know the AC/DC loading ratio of these cars? I mean we know that regular DC charging is not beneficial for the battery and back in the old days of the Ionic there were not so many DC chargers and presumably it was not used for far travelling because of the limited DC capabilities and range.
@@dimitarapostolov4777 But it was never the usable capacity. From the beginning you could not use more than 26kWh. 28kWh is only what Hyundai claims. Probably Hyundai measured the capacity that goes in, if you charge from 0% to 100%. But what's going in is never what's going out on a battery. Björn and even Aviloo said it's 26 kWh. Björn tested it when it was New.
If you charge battery always at value of 80 % there could be the cell imbalancing issue. As far as I know BMS restarts when you drain the battery close to 0 % abd then charge up to 100 %. Try tgw test again after BMS restarts please.
Bjørn! raskt spørsmål, vurderer en Ioniq, og en eldre modell som første bil, men lurer på hvordan det er med kjørelengde og slitasje på disse bilene. Er 100.000km mye på denne bilen? og hva er det som isåfall slites ned og må byttes, og vil det være dyrt? Kjempevideo forresten!
But might the Ioniq has a secret buffer when it was new, like BMW i3 94Ah has? That they use such buffer in BMS to keep usable battery capacity up? At least my ID.3 with 50.000km has in Carscanner 50.5 to 50.9 kWh. Lack of Cobalt I heard?! Sadly NMC721 in VW "Einheitszelle" instead of NMC622 on Ioniq!
I am thinking of buying an id3 with 77kw pack so from this video it seems that is a bad idea. But from the comments it seems it is normal and not that bad. Damn i am quite confused now as to what should i do buy it or not.
The classic 28kWh Ioniq has a net battery capacity of 26.6kWh according to general consensus by its online community. That would mean a degradation of 3.75 percent, which sounds a bit more plausible than 1.5% to be honest. Great video, thanks!
And it could still be the BMS takes more buffer, so you cant use it. And it could still be it will be above 80% for a very long time. And yes double the capacity means much more capable of long trips :)
No. Probably the 38kWh model has the LG E63 cells and the 28kWh model LG E41 1729 A2 cell. But I am not 100% sure but according to the data it seems like that.
@@klikar1982 as far as I know, yes. If he got new press cars and tested it he always worked out the kWh. For example look at his videos if he got new cars.
No, you're wrong. The 28 kWh model could only give 26 kWh Out of His Battery. It's a fact. Björn tested this when Ioniq 28 kWh was new and even Aviloo tested the battery and got not more than 26 kWh out of it.
@@MrPaukann I'm in Florence & see teslas all over the place, the new model 3 refresh has been swarming the area since release, there's like literally 2 ID3s and one of them is practically dead never moves from in front of a house I always find it there think it has some issue that they didn't get to fix I guess. Also one ioniq 5 but see it pretty rarely going around
@@CanisoGaming, Tesla is the most popular, sure. There are certainly more than single digits of IDs in Milan. I wouldn't say they are much less popular than other EVs, excluding Teslas, ZOEs and 500es. I don't drive regularly, so that's only based on parked cars. The company I usually rent from (SbC) very recently got a fleet of Borns too.
Mmmhhh, i think that this is how is compose the battery pack LG Chem - LQ 1729-A2 - 43Ah Polymer Pouch Type Cell 192 cells * 43Ah * 3.75V = 30.96kWh not 26kwh net
@@gerbre1 No, vw had several ev's before, significant models were e-golf and e-up. Built on ICE platform like Hyundai Ioniq, but Hyundai still better built car as EV.
