@@Youthman Yes, I saw how difficuilt that appeared to be. If that was me, I would have turned around the speakers and work from a different angle. I could not have reconnected them the way you did, and kudos to you. :) I work in the service industry, and judgeing by the outcome, I think you might have resolved the issue by simply reconnecting them. Being they are metal connections there could have been an oxidation build up that was causing the eroneous readings
As I mentioned in the video, I did not want to turn the speakers around because I wanted them to remain in the exact same place at the results would not change based on being in a new position. I ran some additional test tonight and will have another video tomorrow
My guess is there is a bad connection somewhere, look at the capacitors in the crossover. Capacitors are high pass filters, you could have discharged it and it isnt recharging correctly, or same and vise versa. I would bet crossover, loose connection or corrosion. You could make a video about going through the 40 year old crossover boards...
Very interesting video Michael. I just got my minidsp and umik1 mic delivered so I’ll need to dive into the REW and start learning it for my new speakers. I’ve been hearing a lot about Dirac Live of late. Thanks for sharing. U have a lot of space behind your screen as well!
@@Siick_GradySHORTS u mean of my theater? My theater is in pieces lol! It will be a while before it’s ready to be toured. But I’ll be filming a few updates as well soon :)
UPDATE: Instead of replying to every comment with the same information, I figured it would be easier to add it here. After 3 days of troubleshooting my left speaker with REW, I came to the conclusion that the 40yr old Klipsch LaScala crossover in my left speaker is going bad. I spoke with my contact at Klipsch to see if they had parts for them (figured they wouldn't) and they advised that they have partnered with jemperformanceaudio.com/ for any Klipsch Heritage repairs as they sell Heritage parts that are approved by Klipsch and will not alter the original sound signature that PWK originally designed. I spoke with the owner Jim for about 30 minutes (super cool guy) about my issue and we also had a great chat about audio as well. Jim said it sounded like the capacitors in my left speaker needed to be replaced so I ordered new capacitors for all three speakers and will get my Dad to help me solder them (I've never soldered before). I appreciate that many of you recommended ordering crossovers from GR Research, Bob Crites, or DeanG but unfortunately each of them offers modified crossovers that are different from the original design by PWK. Even if they use the same values, by using "upgraded" parts, it alters the original sound signature, which I didn't want to do. I'm looking forward to hearing how they sound after installing new caps. Of course I will document the process in a future video as well as share how they sound. If it drastically improves the sound, I'm going to kick myself from not doing this sooner. LOL Tomorrow I'm going to bring my Martin Logan 60XTi and 50XTi into the theater room and do a full Dirac calibration with the Monolith HTP-1. I'm pretty stoked to finally hear how the HTP-1 sounds so stay tuned!
Awesome video Youthman. After 40 years those Capacitors are going to be toast. Nothing lasts forever. Also you know the other side will do it too. Is your Center also a Klipsch of the same vintage. ESR, Out of tolerance and Electrical Leakage are going to be the unhappy of an old electrolytic Capacitor. Looking forward to seeing your thoughts on that Monoprice Pre Pro. Would be cool to compare the Emotiva and the Monoprice.
Great video I like how you show the overall side of things including your trials and tribulations You have great equipment and your smart I wouldn't be surprised if next video You figured it out good luck keep the great content coming 👍👍👍👍
It sounds like a sample error. You might want to completely start over and run the speaker with the original tweeter and see if you get the same results. The other possibilities you could buy the higher inversion of direc live with multiple base management which could help you I think as well Cheers
You might have a faulty capacitor in you receiver have it tested if not your speaker cross over may be on its way out .I had bad crossovers in my tower speakers rebuilt the crossovers and still did not correct the problem so just chopped them up with an orbital saw could not be happier problem gone bought better quality speakers better now .
figured it out yet? I noticed in your video that your laptop is in front of your mike. You lowered the lid. However, the lid surface might have been reflecting the high frequencies. And you lid is at different positions for each test. Perhaps?
Both tweeter anomalies occur at the upper crossover freq. The reason one sweep goes up and the other down could be due to switched polarity. I believe it's the Left Crossover.
Might just be the tweeter not affecting the midrange , or might be sound dampening from the mids not affecting the tweeter In the housing.... also from different angles might spike it...
i just updated my htp-1 this morning to the latest and reran dirac with the bass management control, wow what a big difference, it sounded decent before but always sounded a little off. my older onkyo sounded almost better until this update, it blends everything so much better. and it's nice you now have the 3 options, dirac off, htp control and dirac control, hopefully you get your issue sorted out and get to enjoy a movie
@@Youthman I don't believe I've ever gotten a response that fast on RU-vid!! I'm assuming your speakers are the Klipsch LaScalas you were talking about before?
Thanks Johnny. I’ll try to reply to every comment but as the channel continues to grow definitely more and more difficult. Yes I have owned my Klipsch LaScalas for many years.
Kudos for chasing down that free Dirac bass control trial! I'm eagerly awaiting your/Tony's thoughts and REW measurements compared to your current setup. Hope your speaker issues get sorted quickly!
That sucks. I was hoping you’d be able to do a direct comparison to what you’re always running. Putting the M Logan’s changes everything. You won’t be able to truly compare to your main setup to determine if it’s actually an improvement over the Marantz you have. I do hope you’re able to get it sorted out soon. Good luck
michael!! Gerard Stroh!! I would Check EQ Settings First!! You Change The Tweeter So It's Not That!!! It Could Be The Crossover In The Speaker Cabernet!! I Do Know That Caps Can Go Bad Do With Age and Time!! I Do Know More About Pro Audio More Than Home Theater!! What I Do Somethimes Is Play A Mono Recording and Go By The Speaker And See If It Sounds Different From The Left & Right Speaker!!! Note Did It Do The Same Thing On A Another Reciever Or Preamp!! Bye; From Gerard Stroh!!
Look forward to the video you're posting at noon. First thing I would do is remove the crossovers and get a multi-meter and measure the resistance of all the components on that. Most of the stuff will have resistance values in ohms along with tolerances written on them so you might see 5 ohms +/- .5 ohms and you might find some that are out of spec and would need to be replaced. Ones that are 4.2 ohms instead of 5 would be ones that should be replaced but you might find ones that are .5 or 1 ohms instead of 5 and those would be the parts that are causing the issue you're seeing. Would be pretty easy to check and would allow you to know for certain whether the crossover is bad or not. A lot of times you can find wiring diagrams for speaker crossovers which would make that even easier to troubleshoot. Redoing the crossover yourself isn't hard as it's only a bit of soldering and you might be able to get better sound potentially with higher end parts (that aren't 40 year old tech :P) with tighter tolerances but I can understand if that's not something you would be interested in doing as you could improve the sound or make it worse depending on what parts you use. Parts express has a lot of crossover parts that you could use that are supposed to be decent quality.
Everything looks good now, it looks like some crossover issue in the speaker, it must have happened pretty recent as you would have heard this in normal content. You could take measurements at close range near the tweeter on all 3 speakers to try and take as much of the room out as possible. Don't use the 90 degree calibration file for this, use the other one as you want the mic to be pointed at the tweeter. This will give a good indication on how all the tweeters are measuring, if done right they should follow the same curve. Enjoy Dirac, it's the best RoomEQ I have ever used and not as daunting to use if you are used to REW. A tweekers dream
@@Youthman 2 inches should be fine, the closer the better, getting the same position for all speakers is the main thing with the mic at perfect center to the horn.
I had this a few weeks ago regarding my tweeter for one of my Monitor Audio front towers. The Ferro-fluid had dried up. I bought a new tweeter and the problem was solved. They did suggest I could refill it but I bought a new tweeter for ease. The Sound guy told me that in his experience over the years, tweeters go 1st. This might not be the same as your case but hope that helps.
@@jasonbanas2899 Many, many speakers from the 1990 & 2000 decades had metal-dome tweeters damped with "ferrofluid." The idea was that the viscous fluid, magnetically held in the tweeter voice coil gap, would dampen resonances and ringing in the (then new technology) metal-dome tweeters. Now, in 2013, many of those tweeters sound dull, or have quit working altogether. This happens because the liquid in the ferrofluid has evaporated, leaving a muck or solid in its place. The muck reduces amplitude of the tweeter (making the speaker sound "dull" or "muffled"). The solid prevents the tweeter from working at all. Most people throw away their speakers at this point and buy new ones. But with a bit of elbow grease, the tweeters can be restored to "like new" performance. This thread shows how. Click above for further info.
Looks like a crossover issue... capacitors in the chain of possibly a resistor isn’t doing it’s job creating that radical spike in output in that range. You could also try to swap speaker cables from left to right to see if it’s somehow an issue upstream of the speaker
Believe it or not, Mr Reverand, this was a great video. We all go thru some troubleshooting issues and it is great to see you trying to work out bugs. I enjoyed it.
i have read a lot of comments about monopnice amplifiers that have issues some channels stop working and they are refusing to honor their refund policy and they dont even reply to their customers. Anyone can verify this?
tweeter appears to be functioning in both measurements just much more harsh in the original measurement . id guess one of two things. something was touching the tweeter diaphragm . or you have a bad filter cap on the crossover when replacing the tweeter moving things around it moved it back in place.. if you get a moment pull the crossovers and take a look. hard to tell with out being there with a DDM
Take a look at the other two videos I made on the subject, also if you look at the pinned comment at the top of the comment section, you’ll find additional information on my plan
Did you do more than 1 sweep, to make sure it wasn't a fluke response. Sometimes you can get a bad reading, but then run the same sweep on that speaker 5 times and get the correct response.. just a thought.
What is really tweaking my interest is ... how you didn't even notice that with your ears .. but saw it with your eyes. That's a whole other issue. Yes - testing with other speakers.. wires.. change the wall hangings... Those are really odd results for sure. I will be following your progress.. This is the real deal with tuning..and it's ALL worth it.
You do realize I have 11 speakers playing in my room. Having a single tweeter that isn’t functioning at optimal performance is difficult to hear. Now it would be different if the tweeter was fried and no sound was being emitted.
So if I understood correctly, the problem stayed with the left speaker when you swapped the tweeters? That would mean the problem is upstream, cable, amp, processor. If the only thing you changed is the new HTP-1, perhaps the left channel output has an issue?
Bad Xover in the left speaker - probably the reason for the variable measurements is because the Xover behaves differently over time and temperature. A bad cap behaves like a resister and the amount of resistance will vary with temperature. Makes perfect sense to me, which is supported by the fact that you got two bad measurements on the left side, even though they are different bad measurements....
Get some linacustic on the front speaker wall, loads of guides on AVSFourm on how to do it, will make a huge difference, sounds like a lot of echo in with those LCR,s
Here is a room tour of my home theater - ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-PBuHLgGkfV4.html Marantz AV7705 with Monolith 11X amp, Audyssey XT32
I came across something similar to what you went through but at that time it was under warranty and they repaired it it was my Center Channel speaker and I was told it was the cross over and the Tweeter but like I said it was similar the only difference that yours is not doing it was shutting off my amplifier hope you find your problem Michael maybe this is a sign to upgrade to the jtr speakers lol😁
How many sweeps did you do the first time? Maybe you should have done 3 tests too see if you got that response with the left tweeter each time. Know what i mean?
Yes I’m still pretty new to our REW. I’m learning that I need to run multiple tests to make sure it’s not just an anomaly. I have a new video coming today at noon with additional testing.
I didn't even think about reclining my chairs when doing calibration until I saw this video. Always placed the mic slightly above the headrest, but this is something I'm going to have to try out!
Look like ear level to me thats the first take in the sweet spot .I was trying to run dirac on my xmc2 but am getting to many clip samples way to much ac units running in other apartments windows around me so am waiting until the weather cools down and al ac units get a break lol
perhaps the " bad" Tweeter had oxidized connections and breaking the connection and switching it out and putting the connections back on broke through the oxidation and signal was restored?
Love your videos! Thanks for sharing your experience and for being so honest. I am looking forward to purchasing the HPT-1 later this year (hopefully). So, I am very interested in your full review :)
How much does the HTP-1 cost ? I remember seeing 4 grand for it, which is in line with the competition from Emotiva.. doesn't seem that affordable :p or maybe I'm missing something
Danyal Reyaz Hello! About $4000 plus tax in Amazon or on Monoprice’s website. So yeah, it is relatively expensive. Plus, you would need amplifiers for your speakers
@@mongef yes, and the monoprice 11 channel amp costs 2.5 grand. That's.. 6.5 K I'm still wondering why @Youthman says it's affordable, are 16 channel processors really expensive ? I've seen Emotiva ones go for anywhere from 3 grand to 5 grand which is comparable.
The reason I say affordable is in context of other 16 channel processors. Trinnov 16ch processor is $16,000 and it’s 32ch processor is over $20,000. Storm Audio are way up there as well. Emotiva is the only processor is comparable in price. Aside from them, you might be taking out a loan. Anyone looking to purchase a 16 channel processor is going to spend some money regardless. It just depends on how much money are you willing to spend.
It could just be something as simple as a bad connection. After swapping them around the new left and right look about even on their falloff. So probably just the act of tightening them again after swapping did the trick.
Youthman videos are great. If you want to move the speakers use painters tape to mark there position on the floor. Then you can put them back in the exact location.
If the crossovers have never been updated, then it’s time to do that. A rebuild kit from Crites is 100 bucks for the pair. Or send them to him and he’ll do it for you for a very reasonable price.
You are correct but they are referring to Atmos speakers as in your height channels or your in ceiling speakers. They are not referring to your side surrounds and your surround back speakers
You could of use tape a taped out where the speakers were. Im right around the same age as you. Getting to old for that. Great video you will absolutely love everest in atmos its insane. I think that was my first atmos movie I watched that and american sniper the same day
Good morning my friend. Currently I have a Monolith 7x200 amp hooked up to a Yamaha 3030, Tekton Encores, B&W center, duel SVS 16 subs and SVS surrounds. Simply love the amp. Looking to go to a pre amp. Looking at several. Emotive, Monolith, plus others. My search continues. Recommendations??. Leaning towards the Monolith with the new Emotiva RMC 1L in. 2nd place. My best. Dan. Albuquerque
Hi Dan, I have not reviewed the RMC-1L. It’s the non-modular version of the RMC-1 that I reviewed which unfortunately had a lot of bugs. I just reviewed the HTP-1 and it performed very well and was very stable. I’m editing a correction video on it right now with more info on its performance. It will be uploaded later today.
In a way, that’s one of the best (or worst) parts of upgrading. It’s a change to check out your gear and see if everything is still working. I’ve figured out stuff has been unplugged before, amp channels were no longer working, setting had been altered, etc... and I hadn’t even realized I was missing out! But ya that’s real man. Good on ya for showing that this hobby ain’t always roses!
I agree Scott. One time I remember I was changing out an amplifier and one of the back surround speakers came unplugged Because I had some cheap banana plugs that had become loose and falling out. I have since upgraded to better banana plugs LOL
Youthman I use bananas as well but have had the same problem before. Think when I change houses I’m going to just do it the old fashioned way. Good luck with the new component. I’m really curious about how it ends up sounding!
Youthman I use media bridge as well. And for somebody who changes our components frequently like you do they really are the only way to go. I also really admire your front stage/media rack. Aside from being absolutely beautiful, It’s so accessible and makes those kinds of chores so much easier. An inspiration to us all!
The big jump suggests the tweeter was in wrong fase, the strong falloff in the highs is probably from a wrong toe in. Aim all the speakers straight at the microphone.
@@Youthman absolutely, horns are very directional, and it gets worse the higher the frequency's are. Just try it. With kind regards Marcel, from Hoogeveen in the Netherlands.
Well, clearly the tweeters are both good and both basically the same. The fact they measure different on the left speaker clearly means there is an issue in the crossover. In the process of swapping the tweeters you changed the problem in the crossover. Possibly one bad connection became a different bad connection just from moving the wires around. Passive crossovers from a circuit layout standpoint are really simple, you should easily be able to find the problem if you can remove the crossover and examine it. Worst case remove both the good and the bad so you can compare them. I haven't used REW, I normally use ARTA so I don't know what REW's capabilities are. With ARTA you can easily measure the transfer function of the crossover and see what the frequency response of the electrical signal passing through it is. An LCR meter isn't expensive and it can measure the values of capacitors and inductor components to verify they measure to spec. Hey maybe now is a good time to ditch the passive crossovers and go active! Bi-amp the speakers with DSP active crossovers and dial those speakers in better than they could ever be with passive. Sorry, I just hate passive crossovers, rarely use them for anything other than maybe surrounds or ceiling speakers for distributed audio.
Yeah I don’t think I’m ready for active crossovers. Honestly I prefer to keep it pretty simple. The reality is I have 40 year old speakers that need some love and attention
Thanks Butch everyone is pushing me to get the JTR’s. I’m definitely interested in reviewing a JTR LCR. I have a feeling once I do, I will be selling my LaScalas. I think the 210RM I’ll be a better fit for behind my screen since they are sealed
I enjoy your videos, happen to also recently get an HTP-1 and have been enjoying it much more than the XMC-2 that I had for 2 months. I agree with what others have pointed out. Most likely cross over related, might need an overhaul! Could also swap left and right channel preamp to verify not the speaker cable nor the amplifier.
Looks like reconnecting the tweeter resolved it, so either you had a funky connection and resetting it fixed it and the swap didn't really do anything, or that first pass with the error, was just an anomaly, did you get that result more than once? Either way currently, looks like your new left and new right are more in line with each other than originally, so problem solved no? Also if it was that messed up for real, as much as you critically listen to this stuff, I think you'd have heard it before seeing it, lending to posibly just an anomalous run, with no real problem. I guess next step is to reverse the tweeters back to their original locations, and see if that weird graph repeats itself, but honestly, the way it is now seems like the result you want, so maybe leave well enough alone?
P.s. isn't all that extra audio stuff on the floor throwing off your calibration anyway? I mean even something as different as who is sitting on what seats will affect your audio responsiveness. I dunno I've never had a receiver that did room correction, or been to any ones HT that has, so I have no perspective on what kind of difference to expect from a great system, bog standard with just speaker distances and basic crossover points set, to a hard core multipoint calibration, a system, totally dialed in. I just know without going through all this *which don't get em wrong, as a tinker, seemas fun* I really enjoyed my setup, so I just wonder, what am I really missing out on, how much better could it be? makes me curious for sure.
Yes I probably need to do some more testing just to make sure and confirm my results. But seeing that Direct and I are a W noticed something odd about the left speaker tells me there’s probably a physical issue. Some have even suggested towing in my left speaker more as that might have been causing the issue. Unfortunately swapping the speakers is a royal pain in the butt due to the way that I have to do it. If I could get directly behind each speaker that would make the process extremely easy but I’m trying not to move the speakers so I can keep the same results when I run measurements
As far as having extra stuff on the floor, the reality is every room will have something that will interact with the speakers. Whether that’s furniture, people, hard surfaces, acoustic panels, cabinet, flooring, ceiling, ceiling fan, the list goes on and on.
I was thinking the cross over rite away. It's just theory but you had some serious stuff going on in the bass, looks like below 200hz. The highs were not rite but if it was a tweeter problem you shouldn't see that huge dip around 100hz.
40 year's, not serious! Klipsch use electrolytic capacitors that are drying with time. Perhaps it's time for a complete overhaul? You have to know that Audyssey work hard to do the corrections. Look on RU-vid Danny Ritchy of GR-Research for fixing problems concerning Klipsch speakers.
Unfortunately Danny modifies speakers to his liking instead of restoring them to factory specs. I have reached out to JEM Performance Audio. Klipsch has authorized them to restore Kliosch heritage speakers back to factory specs
Well said. Danny puts in the time that the OG designer didn't. Even klipsch knew the crossover needed improving. Doesnt make sense to not want a flatter frequency response...and no ..replacing parts with klipsh approved caps doesnt make the performance better.
I really love your videos Youth Man Mike higher Sherlock Holmes to figure it out or Jean your buddy. You certainly make awesome videos some of them I don't have the money for it we just bought a new car but I love your videos regardless thank you so much keep up the great work they an audio holic thank you God bless,
I was hugely let down on the Everest 4KUHD Blu-ray of course I was going in with high expectations. I'll have to watch it again when I get my DENON AVR-X4700H and my PlayStation 5 and go in with lower expectations.
@@Youthman Like I said I went in with high expectations. I wasn't critiquing the audio side only the visual side. I don't have a Dolby Atmos supported AVR yet but I am running a 7.1. I have 2 sets of bi-pole speakers, mounts, 12 gauge speaker wire, banana plugs and 8K HDMI 2.1 cord just waiting for my new receiver.
@@Youthman I went full active in my work truck and don't think I could ever go back to passive. Sure it's a vehicle but it's not as bad as you think. Now the money in all the amps and DSP might be a big undertaking lol.
Full active is the only real way of the “End Game”. I’m running full active on my LCRs. 12 channels and 2 bi amped sets per LCR. So really 18 channels sof amp power just for the LCRs lol. Crazy but sound is crazy and only have 12 of the total 18 hooked up right now.
Hello from Spain I am a faithful follower of your channel, thanks to you I have decided to create my channel, dedicated to home teather, of course you are invited to visit my channel. Thanks for your video reviews and others and although I don't know English (I wish I could speak it well) I really enjoy it. Thanks a big hug from Spain
Thanks, if you go in to see it one day I'll be delighted and right now I'm adapting so I'm a bit robotic hahaha Thank you very much for your channel A hug
