@@flatty4657 Only weird tactic he was leaning on was going really REALLY hard on infantry and not developing into tanks. He immediately saw the error of his ways right after he faced against excelblem using a TON of tanks. If anything, seeing him fail shows us what NOT to do without having to lose ourselves.
ps. about the *early tank* ... what if that part of the meta became the norm since *EVERYONE BUILT RECON* ... then *EVERYONE COUNTERED RECON* ... and in the end - everyone *SKIPPED BUILDING/LOSING* the recon. It became a means to be 'ahead of the curve', skipping the entire recon play altogether? Almost something like a gentleman's agreement. Its more likely to lose this kinda unit in high-level play, not? And shooting a tank this early on is not quite worth it... while having (as you said) a fairly 'okay' replacement. Cost/Value
Eres latino, we? :V Pues fue maso lo que iba deduciendo el Huevo en el enfrentamiento pasado, aquel en que lo sodomizaron con puro tanque. Efectivamente no obtienes tanta visión, pero eso lo puedes remediar con infantería en montañas, y además ganas mucho aguante optando mejor por tanques. Claro que eso haría mucho más viable a los mechs como counters.
22:00 minute mark. About you getting intimidated, it happens. In the American Civil War when Grant took over there was one meeting between army corp commanders worried about Confederate General Lee. And Grant quipped "Oh, I am heartily tired of hearing about what Lee is going to do. Some of you always seem to think he is suddenly going to turn a double somersault, and land in our rear and on both of our flanks at the same time. Go back to your command, and try to think what we are going to do ourselves, instead of what Lee is going to do."
Now that is some thinking. 10000 for two units that work in tandem like that sounds pretty good when you have the bases to spare next to each other. Let's also not forget how clustered the forests and cities were. This map begged for artillery.
Also, he's staging recons AFTER getting priority combat targets out on the board and as a result you'll notice the recons never get attacked even though they were exposed at multiple times in the match. Even if they did, they would have fulfilled a purpose as bait to punish back with his tanks and artillery. That's clever as all get out.
That airport placement is interesting. You mention breaking the pipeseam to get your air units into the center faster. But it looks to me like it's better to keep them closed. Opening them lets your opponent roll in with Anti-Air and lock it down. There's also that forest that's exactly 5 tiles away from the airport, if you somehow manage to get a Missile in there, you could completely lock it down.
"And lost horribly!" I mean, of course he did? Mangs isn't a bad player, but playing against someone who is basically a GM is something with a predictable outcome. It's the kind of match where you know you will only serve as a reference to analyse your own mistakes.
it's kinda like getting a recon/tank out faster vs being on the defense with an infantry on a middle city. It really depends on the map which is the better situation to be in I think.
It really does because sometimes it is beneficial to go further than cap at home when the economy doesnt intefere with your intended build order and capping that further city is beneficial in creating a holdable frontline to spearhead with you later arriving vehicles and rear echelons
It's fucking obvious, like if you rush to your opponents side and start taking from his and then yours, while he takes the nearests first, he will pretty much always be capturing with his infantry early game, and you will be wasting a lot of time just walking. By the time you start taking your bases back home, the opponent is taking all the ones you took far away, all the while he had a higher income.
25:39 Actually, quite the opposite of what you say here. You don't go "all-in" just because you exposed a unit or two to retaliatory range. Keeping some forces back is the smart move to create "bait" to punish on the following turn. Focus on cost effective trades and creating pressure. Not expose 4 tanks to kill one infantry, do 6 dmg to a second infantry on a city, and do 5 dmg to an artillery on a city. You had some misteps throughout the match but this was definitely the single worst one. I noticed you did the "all-in" mindset in your Sturm match vs the allies you lost as well. If I can suggest one piece of advice, the biggest one I can give is break that "all-in" mindset and be ok putting one or two of your units in retaliatory range if it nets you value and also means you can punish retaliation later. I'm by no means a pro but I feel like I learned this lesson from the match so hopefully you see it as well in retrospect.
I think it's really impressive how few units of yours he let get to 1 or 2 hp. He's so in tune with the damage calcs from his units at different HP, and almost always got the kill when he struck. Also mad respect for your analysis! It's so hard to eat losses gracefully, and you have such a healthy growth mindset
Killing a 5HP infantry on a Mountain with just another Infantry requires a good understanding of accumulated damage and how defense-stars are lost with HP.
@@DemonFox369 I imagine it does - laying a trap by retreating into FoW can do wonders to demolish whatever troop is unlucky enough to be baited into it.
@@a-s-greig tbh the pawns are more like neo-tanks if anything. As a chess enthusiast, I absolutely love how OP the pawns are. They're great at defence, controlling and securing strategic points, and they're actually replaceable unlike every other piece in the game. Oh yeah... also they can promote...
"This player has a lot more experience and a greater understanding of the game then me. Which is why I decided to bend the rules and let him play a much higher tiered CO then I was allowed to play." -Mangs, recanting his loss in September 2021
In this episode: local Egg fighting the global leader of the leaderboard for fun, strategy, and content. Lots of tech to learn, I enjoy watching these replays whenever I have the time. Thank you for posting these and commentating them, Mangs!
This map isn't mirrored correctly, and it's driving me nuts. The Top right corner's roads go into the city by the water, the bottom left of the map does not.
30:00 I feel like I want to add on to this. Yea, you definitely need one person who's good enough to clean your clock. They destroy your bad habits and show you the right thing to do. However, I think you also need someone at your level. A rival who you want to beat so you try to learn more. A race to the top. Then, I think having someone worse than you can actually be helpful if you have the other two; It helps give you scale. It makes you realize how far you've come, and can give you a bit of a confidence boost. Plus, it lets you become the clock cleaner for someone else, and gives them someone to strive to beat.
15:09 You saying you lost your capture game, when in fact, at the end of the turn you will have 1 property more and be even, which yes means you fucked up cause extra inf.
Some thoughts: - You valued Eagle poorly, because he takes long to build his power. However ironically the powers were totally pointless here. By the time you had your power, you had just taken a beating. And by the time he could have gotten his power, you had already resigned - he used the recons specifically to scout for the artillery. Thanks to his recons he could place his artillery without guard in attack range of your units. He could predict you would not walk into and attack it by accident, because all the positions for that were too exposed - anit-air seems pointless if it can not actually catch the battlecopter. It will not deter a enemy it can not reach. And you need one in each area. I would guess on this map 1-2 fighters would have been better, as fighters can catch up to the copter regardless of terrain. You can still back them up with AA, to deter Eagles figthers
I personally think that eagle being the CO didn’t make too much of a difference here, or likely hindered the player here. There were perhaps two engagements where eagle’s day to day potentially had impact. It’s genuinely more likely that the other player’s CO would’ve been more effective even if he was playing adder for a mirror match. Though I guess that’s really only because we never saw Eagle’s super power because mangs resigned pretty quickly. Had we seen a lightning strike, this definitely would not be the case.
A Fighter is too much, Fighters are only for countering Bombers. Against Chopers you want Chopers, it's Dog Fight, as they say, who attacks first wins (it's kinda like Tank vs Tank, except you don't have higher tiered Chopters, I mean, Fighters are kinda that, but way too expensive to only hunt Chopters). So in the end it's about having air asap as well and keeping you Chopters alive, taking the best engages and whatnot
Wait, how did his tank shoot the infantry at 23:35 ? The infantry was in a forest and there were no units to give vision for the tank to shoot. You can do that in Days of Ruin because FoW works differently, but this is AWBW. Edit: Nevermind, the replay glitched, he spotted with the southern infantry.
@@gabrielmoralesgonzalez6471 With Kanbei and Hachi, definitely, but Sturm I'd question a bit more since with how he works in AWBW (having 80/120 units), he's arguably the lowest Tier 0 with Grit. You can really feel that damage reduction where Sturm need a few tanks and indirects to interrupt a cap, which really hurts. His saving grace is moving through terrain like you normally would and his meteor options.
28:40 Mangs, There is a MASSIVE analysis to be made here. What your opponent does at this time stamp is what the top players, in my experience, always have in their left hand. In medicine, we would liken this to what is called Peripheral Resistance. What "other" players tend to do, is play in such a way they they create this trap for themselves. In AWBW, I would call this: The Wall.
I feel like the main thing to remember in fog is that if an opponent lets you see an indirect, theres a reason for that. He baited you with an irresistable target and punished you for your greed. In chess it would be the same as sacrificing the quen to trigger alot of trades at once.
I take issue with how AWBW handles their ranking system. You got beat by the guy with highest *overall* score. But his Fog ranking is 761, with only two games played (and lost). The overall ranking is mostly meaningless. Sure, it means someone is good at the game, but the strategies are so vastly different between each mode that you can't just say "this guy's top overall, therefore he's the best". The number two best overall is probably a better player because he's got high rankings across all three modes. But it's impossible to know. If you want to see what it's like to play against the actual best, given that you play Fog, go against Go7.
@@soulhoney1227 Rhettorical is saying that he should play against the person highest rated with the rule set he uses, Fog of War, and not just overall. As it’s perfectly possible that the highest overall score is not the best at this specific rule set.
In addition to this there, are a lot of players in the running for best player of all time that aren't active on league or haven't played enough games recently to get the highest number. Zeronix aka everdan, mxdcyw to name a few.
Hey Mangs, in a recent stream, Excelemblem was talking about sneaking mechs inFoW for cost effective trades and he mentioned that out of 100 games he could count 2 or 3 times it actually worked. So I doubt that this is a good idea especially if you have to invest 5000 extra gold for it because you're paying 8000 to counter a 7000 unit. Not only that but high level players will most likely expect a mech if they see any non-predeployed transport especially transport copters as you cannot hide them in forests. That and once your mech has done it's trade and is revealed, you're left with a slow moving unit that can't do much just like you showed in your mirror match.
The biggest problem with Mechs is that they are countered by Infantry, the most common unit on the battlefield. Mechs are too slow to get a first strike, and too weak to give meaningful return-fire. They're great for creating pressure across mountains/rivers, and can act as cheap backup for your own tanks, but they usually just end up in costly firefights with enemy Infantry.
@HansLemurson Mechs excel at climbing mountain ranges and fording rivers, forcing Infantry to slow to a crawl. AWBW maps are designed specifically to MAKE Mechs underwhelming: Mech spam is outright broken on some maps.
It's cool to see in the graph that even the best player lost his very first competetive match. Very motivating if you're an aspiring advance wars player
24:50 So I noticed this replay on AWBW before it was posted here, and when I saw this, all I could think was "oh no, Mangs was so terrified of that artillery that he got baited into throwing away his entire army to deal 5(-2) damage to it!" But seriously, it was a great learning experience. Do keep in mind though that x9 almost certainly wouldn't have gotten so many recons against another top level player, but with someone as haphazard as you, the recons gave so much information.
It always amazes me seeing very high level players vs simply "good" players. One of the biggest differences tends to be that the high level players make very few or even no mistakes, and punish even minor mistakes from the "good" player very heavily. I am always surprised at just how well they can leverage even the small differences so heavily against even above average players.
Walker - Yesterday at 11:05 (1342 players) There are 73 players currently at 700 rating. There are 79 players who have not finished a game yet (#762 - #840). The average rating is 862. The median rating is 822. Mangs is 867
Frankly I'm not this game expert but I did watch some of your games and I ... don't see Adder as that good at all. Lack of day to day sucks. And those powers dont impress me that much. I'm not saying they are useless but neither they are impressive at least to me.
You should check out the AWBW wiki page for their tier list, they explain there that Sturm is considered S-tier not because he is on par with the other broken COs, but because his perfect movement breaks most map designs. There's a lot of maps out there (often dedicated fog maps) which have lots of roads, coast and plains where that doesn't come into play much so he is considered fair game against COs like Hawke or Sasha who are clearly not (as) broken.
@@ShawFujikawa The sturm from advance wars by web is a nerf version of the sturm from advance wars 2. If this was the sturm from advance wars 2 it would be S-tier without a question.
That's what shocked me. It looked like normal play until the major push where I realized that all of his units were backing up the others. It wasn't just a tank attacking with advantage, but a tank weakening the target for the infantry to kill to open up space for another tank to strike the next target. The sheer force of that push was absolutely devastating.
Mangs, I don't even play Advance Wars, but I really appreciate your videos, especially difficult campaign playthroughs, you're doing great and enjoyable content. Respect.
@@DarkOrderSolDjango I'm more of a shooter / rpg guy, and I don't have much time on hand to try new stuff, because work, and at weekends I just play some DooM Eternal, STALKER, FEAR, Fallout, Crysis, Alan Wake (gonna get that sweet remaster soon), whatever - I have literally over 100 games on Steam I haven't re-played since late 2000s and earlier. But having an hour in the evening to watch some RU-vid gaming is nice.
when Mangs plays a super good player I don't see it as bragging but I see it as "Lemme play the best player and lemme show you guys what sets the average joe like me apart from the best of the best
One thing i noticed what top players do is bait alot. For example that artillery and 3 surrounding infantry. They are fairly low value and it takes alot of commitment to punch through the infantry to get to the artillery. He then positions all t His tanks, battlecoptera etc to counter attack the next turn. Brilliant use of FOW and positioning.
At 23:34 how the hell did he spot and attack in to a forest with his tank?!? Next to the b-copter. He also had some good high rolls. Can't win some matches when they have rng and skill, you'll get him next time you try Mangs!
30:20 He did not simply destroy you, but he *allowed/invited you to make mistakes* , and once you did - he capitalized on it :) You played Battleship.... he played CHESS :p heh (see what i did there?) :3
I think, in terms of capture game, it's something that the advanced wars campaigns sort of educate players into doing it the wrong way... Wrong meaning: Spreading units too thin, capturing too far away from the factories, and not getting the earlier income that just snowballs over the course of a match... When you look at the campaigns, and I think advanced wars 2 is especially guilty of this, probably also dual-strike, a good portion of the maps are designed such that you zero in on some location that, if you manage to capture it early on so you get to establish a foothold, will get you a good long way towards beating any given campaign map... It's the kind of thing they more or less seemed to have wanted players to look for, sort of like a trail of breadcrumbs... "Having this factory will have such and such benefit", grabbing this city at the end of a bottleneck and placing a tank on it is important, because this mission is designed this particular way"... And sure enough... If you play against people who have developed the very same habit, then what's the point in changing anything when everybody seems to do it...? I think of it as a difference between PVP-meta and PVE-meta, where the former takes place in a more symmetrical way while the latter is deliberately asymmetrical, because how else is the AI ever going to "challenge" the player..?
This is a very good point and why people on AWBW always tell new players to go out there and lose against humans and forget all of the habits developed by the unfairly designed campaign that doesn't punish you if you over extend or rush to cap a city in the middle. Even DoR is guilty of this to an extent and the AI in that game was less retarded than in the others
Great game and great content. I think the two mistakes were your lack of reckons and building almost exclusively infantry and tanks. I believe the play that lost you the game was the artillery positioning at 15:37. If you can follow only that helicopter, it had no counter and continued to pressure you. I also suspect he positioned his units early to maximise intel gathering, it would be interesting if such metric was seen while you play the match. Something like, percentage of visible map (it would be like ball possession in football) to give you an idea how the game develops and improve the positioning of units.
God doesn’t want anybody in hell because He loves us, but you must understand why we deserve hell and why those who refuse to live under His authority will go there. He gave us the law (Ten Commandments) not to make us righteous, but rather to show us our sin (Romans 3:20). We’re not sinners because we sin, but rather we sin because we’re sinners. Sin is the nature of our flesh that we are born with due to the sin of Adam in the garden. For someone to be justified before God they have to be sinless. We’ve all sinned (Romans 3:23), and the the law demands death for those who sin (Romans 6:23). God is righteous, so He must punish our sin, which is what He did through His Son Jesus Christ on the cross. Jesus is Holy and sinless, yet He received our sin when He died on the cross, so that we can be righteous before God (2 Corinthians 5:21). When He died on the cross, He said “It is finished” (John 19:30), which means He paid the full price for all of your sins (past, present, and future) to be forgiven. He was buried and rose again from the dead. God will forgive anybody who puts their full trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. We aren’t saved based on our good deeds, but only by the grace of God (Ephesians 2:8-9). His precious blood that He shed is the only reason why we can be forgiven of our sins (Hebrews 9:22). If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised Him from the dead, then you’ll be saved (Romans 10:9). You are born-again with the Spirit of Christ (2 Corinthians 5:17), and are not only legally justified before God, but also are accredited His righteous (Romans 4:24). Believers live for Christ now, so get to know Him through His Word. I recommend reading the book of Romans and the gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John), and watching Pastor Joseph Prince’s online sermons
I think Mangs in on the sensei arc of the manga, being taught by the very bests so he can overcome the evil forces that will dominate the world... Sigma Colin mains!
How could you have played against the best player when you haven't played against me? I'm just not number 1 in AWBW cuz the game's busted and doesn't let me use AW1 Max against other people.
I didn't realize this map was niche. I introduced someone to awbw just a couple days ago and this map was pretty high on the list so I took a look and figured it would be fine
They open tank because the first units will be hid in forests anyway making a recon less useful. I am top 50 fogofwar and a game i lost i asked why no recon.
I have no idea who this guy is. If he's the top player it's because all the actual top players left. Hellraider, ultrastorm, benbever those are the top players to ever play the game.
Do people really consider Eagle as high tier in AW2/AWBW? I find it hard to believe because he really doesn't seem particularly OP, at least on paper. What do you guys think? (Obviously he's extremely good in Dual Strike but that's a different story)
He's a solid tier 2. The problem vs Eagle is you need to killl him before he gets lightning strike. He doesn't even care about income that much, so long as he has tanks and copters. If his army is intact by the time power comes around, you get demolished. And at high levels it is very hard to kill an Eagle that knows how to stall you out.
I think of Eagle as the most powerful CO, when air units can be made a central part of the battle. So it's hilarious that you left him in when you can ban characters :P The battle was decided before character effects played a role. Such a tactical game. The recon unit is so weak, that if you lose your first vehicle unit early, then it could mean losing the game. Better to build it second, and use it's movement speed like you said.
