I created PERFECT twin Wonderkids in FM23 

What about an experiment comparing goalkeepers with perfect attributes but one very small and other very tall. See which one does better.

Well, the extremely early transfer to a massive club kind of axed the original intent of the experiment but we still learned a few things. My main takeaway was just how quickly and reliably physical attributes develop and how long they stay viable.

The reason why he doesn't look like he's got 199 CA is because he's two footed. Improving their weak foot ability increases their CA A LOT for some reason.

Imagine being the Boston Utd wonderkid and your brother is the one that gets picked up by Madrid but you two are the exact same player. Talk about a sibling rivalry

Perfect. This show me that there is significant improvement in attributes with training and playing. Just like in real life. When you play as a youngster you learn and improve

The #1 wonderkid has Professional personality, while the #2 wonderkid is Light-Hearted, that's big in this kind of scenario of development. I think you should make the wonderkids the same personality and base Determination attribute (or at least just the same personality)

Should have shown their team trophy pages! Wonder if WK1 propelled United to titles, or maybe he wasn’t enough

I think one of the hidden issues in the experiment is the registration limits. I wouldn't have picked a La Liga team due to the restrictive non EU slots. I would have had three wonderkids. One in Boston Utd, One at PSV and One at Bayern Munich. Where the fact that the kids aren't competing with every player not in the EU for a roster spot. I think all the experienced FM players would have deduced that Real Madrid would have been an incredibly difficult squad to break into not having Next Gen 50 ability at 18, because the game produces a lot of those every year

You need to look at the club honours each earned. As in real life, the Balon D'or and other individual awards are usually given to the best player from the team that won the big trophies and it's likely Real were more successful

The B-teams in Portugal were an amazing boon. Obviously we're magnitudes more top heavy than English football, by this I mean we have 4 competitive clubs and the rest has no chance, so the fact that they could place their young talent competing against 2nd league pros did wonders for these kids' development. We can almost pinpoint the surge of Portuguese youth teams to that exact moment. I thought they were great for us.

What if you do a experiment where a Defence has perfect striker stats and a striker has perfect Defence stats ¿Will they change positions by time passes or they will stay?

On attributes, going back to CM01/02 they changed the way ability worked all but preventing the perfect 20 player. I can't remember the exact mechanic used (weighting was introduced), but effectively it averaged out players preventing extremes. This deflated attributes in the early versions of CM4 (causing the attribute loss saw in 03/04 which ruined the game after a few seasons) and subsequent FM, but also meant players who had some real stinking attributes were at an immediate advantage because they could have higher peaks elsewhere (and continue improving those through focused training while neglecting others). When preferred moves, new positional training and so was introduced it really started to muddy the water on how attributes were then rated for a player (was it still by main position?). Still remember when you'd get a 16 year old Man Utd youth player released at the beginning of the game on 01/02 I think, Poole? He was low reputation so didn't load each time the game came on, but he had 20 finishing and rubbish stats elsewhere - but he'd run riot in lower league for £20 a week.

It looked to me like WK2 was getting paid 100-150k more per week, which is significant over a career. WK2 also winning 2 Balon d'Ors would make his marketability significantly more too, which translates to more endorsements and more income. WK2 clear winner in football and in life, in my eyes.

You'd also have to look at how their respective teams did, when considering individual awards.

this is weird, but the amount in which you remind me of my father in law is crazy! Must be a Lincolnshire thing lol

Pfft, those lads are ridiculous. Twins, 1 brother holds the record for Manchester United appearances, the other would likely hold the record for Real Madrid, only 6 off Rauls. Awesome experiment!

6:08 the B team system is terrible everywhere excapt ouer in Germany. We had second teams too and its so great to have it and it works very well especaly the SC Freiburgs second team

Could you try a similar thing but with players on different continents? , or one player from each continent for another experiment , you put them in the team that in every continent has the best facilities

If you can do a 16 team world cup on FM23, please do a world cup with teams that have qualified only once for the world cup. There are only 18 teams who have qualified once and I'd love to see it.

Nice experiement. While WK1 had a good career, WK2 ended up with a bigger bank balance, a villa in La Moraleja and another villa in La Finca next to Ronaldo.

I feel like a lot of these experiments are just recycling of others, but this was really, really interesting and had many layers.

Very interesting! Maybe you can do an experiment where you give Man United perfect players at every position from all of the top footballing nations, and see how the award committees rate them? There's bound to be lots of CL and WC wins, so they ought to win basically everything. If there are still zero Ballon d'Ors in that scenario, then clearly it is club-related...

You should have done this with the Boston wonderkid having to stay at Boston for his entire career.

One thing I didn't know was possible was a 15 CA increase after your 24th birthday, so thank you for that!

All these experiments are very interesting Tom, thanks

I wonder if you could chuck some wonderkids in some sunday league team in a small country out of europe and see if they get scouted quickly into europe.

Thats interesting if there is a block due to them playing for Man Utd. Considering how well they did, it could be assumed the team would have been doing well too, yet not a single one of their players was on that list.

In one of my saves Luis Alberto of Lazio won a Ballon d'or even though he's 33+ at that point even though Lazio were in Europa league and he wasn't even picked by Spain in a Euro year.

Great stuff Tom. Really interesting Experiment, i also like too wait for a Young Player too Develop, Loan them out etc but it looks like, if you have a really Special Young Player at the Club, even at the Age of 16 or 17, it might be wiser too get them i the First Team and Player right of the Bat. Would have been nice too have seen what each Perfect Wonderkid Won throughout their Careers.

I have two theories. 1. The training of the new position did effect the players development. I have heard training a new position costs 5 current ability. 2. The player who started at boston probably had more opportunity to pick the best team for him to move to, where as the player for real madrid, well, he probably would have never wanted to leave even if it was the best choice for him.

I wonder how a wonderkid with attributes at 20 would progress if he had his hidden attributes frozen at 1. Would the big clubs still sign him?

This explains a lot that first team football will be much better, should I save my best young players in my top tier team and play cup matches, odd games in PL or loan them out to lower leagues?

I think you should do it again, maybe not let the transfer happens so soon and make them more similar, but maybe opposite wings? So they can play together on the National team

Potentially boiled down to what they were winning with their clubs for why WK2 performed better in terms of trophies. Both played for England, so international trophies would be the same. Did Real repeatedly win La Liga, and perform well in other comps compared to Man U?

Video ended when the better personality wonderkid moved to the most op club of the game lmao

LETS GO FINALLY One more of these!!!

I think this would have been really interesting to see the difference if they were both locked to Boston and Real Madrid. So a full career playing first team football at Boston, would he reach 200?

something that might have been overlooked is the quality of teams they played in, as a manchester fan our better CM's are late 20's early 30's so he had better opportunities, Madrid on the other hand atm is stacked in the midfield, yes they have some older players in modric and kroos but they also have studs like, camavinga, tchouameni, valverde. this would have made it alot harder to break in past those guys even playing as an inside forward Vini and Rodrygo are still super young. it would be interesting if you did this again but had wonderkid 2 as either a striker at madrid or at another team like Inter

It's nuts what Madrid did with their WK. Not just immediately training him as an inside right, but then a DM and an utterly ridiculous number of PPMs, whereas the United player was left to develop as is.

Another thing I haven't seen mentioned is that the real madrid wonderkid has tons of traits, and the United wonderkid only has a few.

FM23 CPU scouting is very efficient, they can identify any high potential player in early stage, I was so annoyed when half of squad always being bidded when I start my 1st season from the low tier league.

When you appeared on screen after your intro I literally thought you were Neil from The Inbetweeners. Interesting vid though, liked and subbed

I wonder if the Real Madrid one didn’t develop as quickly early on because he was an Englishman in Spain and he wasn’t developing as well because he had to adapt and train in a new country where he didn’t speak the language

maybe the kid on real didnt get call to national team, because the man united kid was getting all the spot light.

PW 2 won some Champions Leagues at Madrid that helped winning the Golden ball, for sure. Guess what PW1 won at Man. Utd.. 😂

I'd like to see one where the players are locked to clubs. Maybe one in the lower leagues, one in League 1, one at a lower Premiership team and then one at someone like Man City. The 1 season at Boston was interesting but it ended up being Man Utd vs Real Madrid whereas it would be interesting to see how a 200 potential youngster would fare if he spent his entire career at a club like Boston.

11:41 another 2 wonderkids from Man Utd won the U21 prize, so maybe your theory about the team could not be the reason? Maybe Man Utd was simply not winning titles during the simulation, while Real Madrid was a more important team

Make the start age 14. A natural 190+PA 16y/o wouldn't start with a ca as low as 80. Also, if you develop properly, i.e with an editor, 200pa distributed properly can create a striker that scores 80+ goals a season

Should have just set them both to have a long contract and a future retirement or future transfer for 2040 or something. That way they would stay with their current clubs instead of transferring straight away.

Create a super team/club of perfect players with the pre-game editor. Let's see how well they dominate in the premier league/champions league etc. Just a random video idea. Great content btw😁

If the problem with awards was United, and also WK1 did go there early, then next time, you could do a future transfer after 2/3 seasons. So they WILL play lower league for a few years, then go to Chelsea/City/Liverpool etc, to make sure they are eligable.

not going to lie, that is not what I would have expected 185 CA to look like.

This game couldn't have been more realistic about winning Ballon d'Or

I would love to see this experiment again but locking Wonderkid 1 at Boston. Also you could give them names 😂😂😂😂. What about giving them double nationality (something like England/Jamaica or England/Bahamas something like that) and see if one of them would switch National Teams.

No look at who won more team trophies? Or to see if they managed to bring the world cup home? I think wonder kid one is still better, getting to 200 is a harder achievement.

Look at this player, they are absolutely world class.. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Would have been interesting to see the international comps won/ lost

I also wonder if the kid having to adapt to a different country and language has an effect on the player in the first year at the club.

WK2 Didn’t get any England caps cause WK1 stole the spot.. they had the same role dude!

You should do a trying to get fired as quickly as possible challenge. or a challenge where you start at an elite club and keep getting fired and see what team you can still manage after constantly getting fired.

Anyone else notice Mbappe was listed as an attacking mid for the last two seasons he won the Ballon d’Or?

You should have also done goals, assists ave ratings, total trophies, etc

No B teams in England? Well you have yet to win a World Cup since 1966. Meanwhile Spain's only World Cup was built and set up from B Team prodigies that came from La Masia and other B Teams from La Liga.

I'd love to see this but with one of these players in the lowest ranked team in each major countries (France, Italy, Spain, England etc.). I feel like the reason Man U bought this kid is because of the level of scouting in England. Would be interesting to see if they can go under the radar in other leagues.

You should make this experiment again with more "brothers" one starts in the lower leauge of spain as wonderkid one starts in englands lower leauge one starts in germanys 3. Liga one starts in Frances lowest leauge one starts in Italys lowest leauge and just for the lols the last one starts in polands 1. leauge

The caps for the national team is probably because they play on the same position and the United guy is better and is the first choice

Try making a lower level team a full roster of 200 PA kids with low CA. Then lock them all so they have to stay at that club. See if they still develop to anywhere near their potentials and if they can drag that team up to being a top level team.

The Man U thing could also be that Man U was just way worse in Europe for those years.

Creat opposite footed player symetric same role two cm tactic and long loan them and go on vacation

One thing I think Football Manager needs is a way to restrict what positions young players are played in. If you have a Wonderkid Striker in your Youth Team, how do you stop the U18 Manager wasting development points by playing him as a CB, CM, Left Winger, Right Inside Forward etc. There really needs to be a way that you can tell a player and other staff members that they must only play in one position. In this video Wonderkid 1 clearly had more and better attributes because he only wasted development on learning two positions MC and AM C. Wonderkid 2 who Real Madrid used as a MC, AM C, AM L, AM R and Striker clearly wasted a lot of development on position and roles which hurt their attribute growth. Only reason why Wonderkid 2 looked better was because Strikers get heavily favoured in the game, win all the top player awards and stuff. Where as Wonderkid 1 playing as a MC was never going to win any Balon D’Or or anything, as Midfielders never win awards in FM.

The awards are based off accolades, if #1 wasn't winning trophies he wouldn't be up for the balon do'r

Maybe its about the team performance overall, Madrid is too strong therefore a lot of their player are on the balon dor list, even tchouameni on DMF.. Thats why Wonderkid 2 got a lot of "individual" trophy, because of the team he's in

My understanding was that determination attribute helps with their development significantly. I don't think determination attribute develops much either other than their mentorship groups and even that depends on the mentor. From the test, it's obvious that ManU player's determination didn't matter much and he reached his full potential but it could've helped his twin more (potentially). Maybe a follow up test might help where it's the same starting attributes/teams but both with 20 determination..? Great work as always though Tom!

Do this but have one start at Barcelona and the other start in the Australian A-League

in my fm22 save i am managing chelsea and NORWAY , us norway WE MADE IT 2ND PLACE DIOSPITE NETHERLANDS WIN WE ACTUALLY BEAT NETHERLANDS 2 1 W ITH NORWAY I COULDNT BELEIVE IT LOL BUT they fini9shed 1st and no i have playoffs against czech repopublic and hungry its VERY EXCITING. I ALSO HAVE INTER MILAN CHAMPTIONS LEAGU IE I AM 2 GOALS DOWN BUT I JUST BOUGHT VICTOR OSHIMEN AND KALVIN LEWIS

You should've made them M/AM R and M/AM L and one-side footed. Coz having them both playing for the same position, is kinda "meh". I dunno if Wingers or Inverted Wingers would be better, but one footed players seems to develop better, coz I guess less points waste on a foot attribute. I dunno how to assign "the best" possible hidden/mental attributes from the start, but I'm still of the old school, where I do not sign players with sub-15 Determination.

He is* His* Him* He's*

As far as I know the Manchest United vs SEGA/SI lawsuit was still ongoing. But it seems they settled in 2021. I rather suspect it will not be the last we hear of such legal wranglings, especially as Konami and EA have been buying up licences in recent years (hence why some Italian teams have fake names as at different times EA and Konami had exclusive rights to the likes of Juventus and others).With EA giving up the official FIFA licence, they've been buying up the league, comp and fifapro player licences instead. How long before a lawsuit forces SI to block their game from being able to be modded to what could be concieved as licence dodging by the licence holders and rights holders?

I’d love to see one team edited so that ALL players are as tall and fat as editor allows, BUT also as slow, weak as possible with 1 jumping reach. Vs a team with everyone smallest and lightest allowed but with 20 strength, speed, accel, and jumping reach! Just for commical value!

Nicely done Tom - enjoyable vid - thank you

Curious if language has anything to do with it like with scouts knowledge? Anyway great vid Tom Thanks for all the fun experiments

Should have made the Real Madrid Wonderkid Spanish. More Incentive for a Spanish team to play him

Even the game has the Real Madrid bonus

This is literally manu vs r. madrid. I would love to see what happens if he stayed at Boston at least until he is 21.

Hey Tom, why don’t you create a club or start a save that is open for viewers to play too? Maybe a low league English club? A versatile club with a decent youth intake so it is suitable for different managerial styles? Really like your video’s but would be fun to have more viewer interaction!

would be quite cool if you had compared their trophies won wit their club/nation. great video nonetheless bro

One of my teachers plays for Boston 😂😂 His name is Joseph Theodore Cummings

Can you do a Boston Utd rebuild plz plus their my home team

Making both legs super strong takes a lot from CA, same with new postiions and traits. Determinaton, aggression, flair - i think that these ones dont affect CA at all.

I'm high as shit and the background music is tripping me out something else lad. Good content tho

Real Marid failing to develop talent? This game is waaay too realistic :P

can you experiment on the PA? two players with same attributes but different PA and compare their careers?

What about an experiment where the World Cup is a massive league where everyone plays everyone else, home and away

Career achievements, who won the most trophies?

I'd take wonderkid 2 career definitely

Create a club has some sort of bug and you cant start new saves. Can you create and add players with the editor?

i think u should look up injuries too.

With these 2 wonder kids did England win an international trophy?! What were their trophy cabinets in general like?!

Players not getting England squad recognition because they don't play in the Premier league? Never! Tomori is so robbed of a position in that defensive line.

Scamacca coming second in ballon dor one year is crazy