I fixed Phil's PC... You'll NEVER guess what the problem was! 

Lock rotor current for the fan could be what was causing the ocp. Current for stuck electric motors can be 6-8x higher than normal

Jay, as someone who just did their first water cooled build and ran into countless issues, im very thankful that you not only show all your successes, but also all the speed bumps you encounter along the line. Thank you for not only the knowledge, but the example of the patience it takes to get these systems working when doing it yourself.

Tell Phil that using the "peel fail" audio as part of the music drop was GENIUS

Some mobo's have a setting that if the CPU fan header reports no RPM, the system will shutdown. There is also the chance that a stuck fan draws multiple times more power. This is why if you stop a fan with your hand then let go, it takes it a second to kick back on. I imagine there are a certain number of times it tries to start the fan before it shuts down the system.

So crazy that that's what the problem was. With all the high-tech stuff that we deal with in computers... I guess Phil's a lot happier now! And for Techtober you got TWO videos out of it!

Youve been building computers for as long as Ive been alive, that puts things into perspective quickly lol

That PC looks as amazing as I imagined. Sfx/mini-itx PCs are my favorite, and I really appreciate when people try a custom water loop in them.

The most bizarre problem I've seen for a long time (building computers for about 20 years). Well done, Jay, good fix.

Having the fan physically blocked made the PWM send it full power to try and get it going. I think in that situation the amount of current draw can be considerably higher than even at 100% fan speed. I've been building PCs for about as long as Jay, and I've seen some really weird issues. It's frustrating, but also a good feeling when you figure it out.

Its always the smallest thing causes the biggest issue! Great content Jay, and enjoy the build Phil!

Every build I've ever done I always make sure every fan in the system is turning. Never take it for granted.

awesome catch. this is the beauty of troubleshooting... look for clues and then use your experience and logic to figure it out. nice one

Looking good ... and great thermals on that powerful lil monster ... and the computer too Phil 🙂 Nice work Jay

I just wanted to say that the system looks great after the upgrades! I use that same color blue on my system except it is a slow breathing mode instead of static. Great job on getting it working and letting us know what happened!

Wow! Glad you’re good at troubleshooting. Loved seeing you explain your thoughts, cause, and solution

I love Jays videos and the patience he has to troubleshoot and not figuring something out teaches you something new and to change your moethod in building a water cooling system for super small cases. The part that made me laugh the most and it made my night honestly, When the music started and he's pulling the film off the glass and the glass flew off 😂😂😂 I was in tears. Thank you Jay for being the only youtuber that is not afraid to show that something didn't work out and didn't take out of the montage, That gives people confidence to keep trying to learn how to figure things out. In all honesty I only enjoy and love Jays videos as number one source for me, Gamers Nexus was my first then he started making long ass boring videos with all due respect and i love his work, But too long is boring and not good for content cause people don't have the patience nor the time to watch 40 to 60 minutes of talk and no action. Great having you my main source Jay, And that will be it. Jay then Gamers nexus then last MKBHD sor electronics and especially for Smartphones.

The first fan in the daisy chain sends the rpm signal back to mb header. That fan not spinning could have been tripping the mb's CPU fan fail protection. Also PWM means Pulse Width Modulation which is the method that the mb uses to control the speed of the fans and is not related to the the rpm signal being sent from the fan back to the mb.

I really gotta admit. The editing of your videos, cutting at the right times, sound effects, jokes, music is on another level compared to most tech channels. Really good job to Phil or whoever else is included. PROPS !

I love these videos. A lot of the time you watch a video on how to build a PC and end up sitting there saying ... "yeah but it is not doing that, what do I do now?". These types of videos help figure out problems which aren't obvious. Thanks Jay for being awesome!

Unscrewing and screwing the case a hundred times during this video alone! Building and fixing PCs is more a therapy to himself than maintenance for the PC :-). I love it when you love, what your doing, man!

Really enjoying this Series again this Year Jay, Thank you.

I suspect a jammed fan may draw more current which may have been too much for cpu fan header.

Thanks for sharing the fix. It would be interesting to do an A/B power draw comparison between a freely spinning fan and one that you hold fixed. Pretty sure a stuck fan pulls more power and the motor itself can over heat.

It’s an attribute of electric motors that the current increases when the mechanical load on the motor increases. A broad number of applications (like 3.5 inch disc drives or instrument clusters) actually use this effect to e.g. detect the dead stops. (turn the motor until current rises above a threshold) A blocked motor draws three times or more current than if it’s not blocked

I'm guessing the first fan is the only fan it's reading acting as a "master". Similarly, fan hubs have one header that acts as the fan rpm reader.

Hey Jay, maybe you could 3d print some spoilers for the thin fans underneath (same thickness as the case feet extenders) to hide the fans and their wires. Very nice build!

24hrs turn around is really good.. usually its like a week cause you found more issues when building and more parts/fittings/brackets get ordered.. and finally you have to actually dremel part of the case to fit a bracket.. ah, the process.

Sounds very similar to airplane recirc and or equipment cooling fans, when bearings go out or having excess current draw from gunk build up, etc to reach that operating speed. Always pops that breaker. Kinda cool info that it relates to computers in some sort of fashion as well lol. Thanks for the uploads Jay!

Something inside the system was triggering a sort of "no CPU fan signal".

Wild I actually did have an idea what was going on, only because I've encountered a very similar issue. Mine was caused by a GPU fan though, where the middle fan out of the 3 wasn't spinning and causing OCP shutdowns. That sure was a fun one to figure out because the temps were fine, and presisted after swapping out the power supply. Fans can be hard to diagnose, especially in my case where I couldnt see if they were all moving or not.

All right Jay. It has been many many months since you promised us an update and or a video about you working with Northbridge fix and we have heard nothing from you. It is time for you to keep your promise. Do it!

Says it's not clickbait, continue with a vague intro to the video to lure you even further! Clever moves Jayz :P

Great troubleshooting! To test your theory, did you try manually stopping the fan to see if you achieved the same fault? Just curious.

Well done jay and Phil is lucky to have such a good boss I hope he appreciates his situation.

Jay, there's a few things going on here. The PWM signal is just that, low voltage a control signal, telling the fans how quickly they should spin. Even with the one stuck fan, the signal will pass through correctly allowing the second fan to spin as requested. This tells me that no weirdness was going on with the control PWM signal at all. The power required to spin the fans is coming from 12v, and the stuck fan, trying to spin at the requested speeds, would have used a ton of current trying to start spinning, this is what tripped the OCP for the 12v rail. I don't know how those fans handle reporting their own rpm when they're daisy chained, but normally it's just from the first fan in the chain and subsequent fans are just assumed to be doing the same, or almost the same, as the first. Ideally it should read as zero rpm as the fan wasn't spinning, but it's likely that the motor, pulsing current with every attempt at starting, flooded the tachometer signal with garbage that the motherboard couldn't decipher.

Not a big fan of itx but this little unit looks great. Good job on that diagnosis.

Thank you for not giving up and figuring it out. I'm a motorcycle technician and I see it every day. People get stuck and give up. I have to explain to them that I learned more from not giving up than I ever did in a classroom.

I finished my nr200p hard line build just before you guys did. I had so much fun but it was also a bunch of hard work but Allina all super happy. Used the the new ique link fans. Thank you for all the great help over the years with all my watercooled builds!!!

It’s not because of the PWM, it’s because the rotor is locked which causes the motor to overheat and trip the OCP. Great job in finding that one, don’t have a lot of space to work with in that case!

Well with PWM on the MB would see a fan not spinning and send more voltage and with it not being able to turn would cause a fault for sure. It's great to see safeguards actually working as intended. Back in the day you would generally smoke your board and or PSU.

Hey Jay I appreciate all the videos you post man, keep up the great work💪

It's always the darndest things. Glad you were able to figure it out and get it fixed!

I love the followup video! This is so great. Thanks again for sharing. Love your videos.

Moral of the story; get a bigger case! 👀

Glad I didn't have to wait too long to find out the RCA. Edit: The PWM can probably only handle a certain amount of amperage. When that fan was trying to turn but couldn't I imagine the amperage shot through the roof and overloaded the circuit.

Love this videos showing all the thought process, not right away the solution

Sweet, nice work. Yes, it's electrical, the mechanical hindrance will ask the system to push it more (current) til something break or some protection kicking in. Great channel btw

I wonder if due to lack of air cooling won't the VRMs and chipset on the MB get too hot?

Very good catch Jay, I would've bet it was the cut riser but the fans triggering a ocp makes sense now that fans are daisy chained and possibly caused too much resistance for the header to be safe so it triggered a protection. Also Cutting a pcb is usually never a good idea so keep the new one on hand just incase lol. Keep up the good work!

Phil that was AMZING. I absolutely love his edits and that beat. Keep it up!

primo tech tip learned from this Jay! It is amazing, even with me, that sometimes the littlest thing causes the biggest of issues! Thanks for sharing brother!! PS: That build is SICK!!

Very helpful and glad Phil's system is working!

As soon as you said that the one fan was plugged into the cpu fan header, I KNEW that it had to be a problem with a fan not spinning. A buddy of mine was having issues with his PC a while back (it was jank and super budget should be explanation enough i hope) and he was having problems with his PC constantly shutting off and crashing after his cpu fan quit working. He had taken the side panel off and pointed a box fan into it as an alternative to cooling his cpu instead of buying (at the time) a $30 cpu fan for his specific fin stack. He was so confused as to how he was having problems weith better thermals than before, but would crash every time he launched ANY game. It wasn't until he plugged in a new CPU fan to his cooler and never had a problem again. Its probably some protocol with the instruction set of the CPU itself (or motherboard) that if the thing that is supposed to cool the cpu isnt doing the thing its supposed to do, to shut down to prevent thermals geting out of hand and damaging the chip

You have great patience! I would have tossed it out of a window by now!! *THANKS FOR THE VIDEO!!!*

The montage went hard af dude. I recently upgraded to a 4K monitor and watching that in 4K with a good headset for that bass was dope af.

Satisfying conclusion to this build. NICE find/fix. Also satisfying b-roll/ montage. :D

Great video , thanks for taking us along the whole ride 😊

37 years ago was 1986, the year I got my Timex Sinclair w/ cassette tape storage. Next was the Commodore64, Zenith desktop, followed by Amiga then build my own since. Psygnosis flight sims and Papyrus NASCAR MMO thru dialup, had to build my own wheel and pedals. So yes, it has been an exhausting journey to the conflicts of today, which are much less but on an exceedingly complex level. IRQ conflicts were the good ole days, and learning why Celerons were cheap. Hope my present system holds because I have had enough, 12600k w/ EVGA 1070TI AIO, great temps. Salute to you Jay for sticking with it, and thank you for inviting us along.

Most unexpected problem we ever had on a completely new build was a bad IDE cable. Yes, it was a while ago, but, a bad new cable is very rare. It would boot fine, somewhere during installing Windows it would conk out. You start checking other things first, HD, Mobo, PSU, even memory, CPU, the chances of it being a brand new bad cable is just astronomically low in comparison because it's such a simple part.

That is a pretty cool build Jay, congrats Phil on a sweeeeet PC.

that's amazing. Excellent job in figuring that out

Great that you could figure this one out. Had a similar issue once with a Fractal AIO where one of the three fans on the radiator stopped turning (bad bearing?) unless you provided it with >85% of it's rated speed which in turn caused pretty bad cooling performance. At that point it would start turning, but at a much slower speed than the other fans. Took me a few days to figure that out. Phils finished build montage videos are best in class as usual, looks awesome. Kudos to you sir.

That sometimes happens with me too. When i clean up my PC and re assemble it back it just doesn't want to turn on. Because all the USB slots are occupied are connected. So that's a really good video jay. Power can sometimes be complicated. And in my case it's the USB connected to my printers. And my PC sees it's pulling unusual power from usb and it shuts down. For me it's just to remove every USB connection except keyboard + mouse + monitor (my monitor also have a USB hub connected so remove it too). Then it's all fine. Let the PC run for a time then connect each USB one at a time and good to go.

Given the amount of space, that build is looking pretty awesome. I really like the subtle look with the minimum LEDs on it.

Good catch! I had a similar issue with an old turbine fan from Cooler Master in the early 00s. For some reason the motherboard couldn't see the CPU fan even when it was spinning and would shut down. Took a while to figure it out.

Just built 3 new PCs. One of them was having terrible stuttering and trouble posting. After replacing everything, draining my bank account and tearing my hair out in the process; it turns out it was a faulty pcie riser cable from cooler master. Same one I used in one of the other builds. So frustrating, yet so simple.

Nice fix. That is one nice looking PC now. Phil is one lucky guy. I love when you run into issues, not to make you life miserable, but so we can all learn. Great video.👍

Learned some valuable information through this troubleshooting exercise. That's always a win, great job.

That's great that Phil's PC is finally working and we see thermal improvement and they don't seem small at all. I would love to have a video on setting up the intel extreme software in the BIOS, I have not been able to get it working for my new i9 12900KS. I'm missing something in the BIOS and would love to have you do a full rundown on it!

Oh my, I had the exact same problem with a build on this case for a customer of us, it would unexpectedly shut down without showing any problems with temps. We left the build unused due to this poltergeist. I'll check tomorrow if there is some fan blocked from turning....

Getting actual flashbacks from building my wife's ITX machine a few years back... Glad you got it sorted, thanks for sharing!

This is such a dope SFF powerhouse. Thank you for taking us along on the ride.

I love my NR200, it's awesome to be able to take apart an ITX system and work on it without having to rip everything apart. Happy flying Phil, keep the blue side up!

It's relieving to see that stupid things can happen to ANYONE of us. I can't remember how many times my head wanted to hit the desk in my 25 years of building my own systems.

Have been watching back some of the older JayzTwoCents videos and this truck to me. I remember one time when I re-organized my room and disconnected my PC whilst doing it. Once everything was plugged back in, PC didn't start. Nothing worked. What in the end caused it was a specific USB device in either one of TWO specific USB ports that just caused the PC not to power on at all. No Bios screen, no nothing. Moved the USB device to a USB extension card and another USB device from the extension card to the MB USB port. This was some 15-20 years back or something

The side panel falling off during the montage was priceless! That's why I'm subscribed. 😂

Odd issue, good job figuring it out.. system looks nice all put together.

very interesting build! i love it! nothing like Jay cant solve! GG!

Great job Jay (and friends)! I have been restricting my home builds to big high quality cases ( like the Lian li O11 evo xl) for years because I hated working in cramped conditions ever since the time of the cheap beige 'cut-any-finger-you-dare-in' generic brand cases. I can see now how that helps dodge the weirdest pitfalls.

Thanks for the awesome video Jay!

Can I just say, was listening to this in my car. Montage music kicks in and it freaking bumps quite nicely.

Great video glad it worked out, your a great friend jay

wow who woulda have thought that!? thats a crazy problem to have and prob super super rare to happen 😮 gz Phil, good u get ur comp back up and running ^^

nice work and a good cache with the fan enjoyed the vid thanks

Jay, the easy way to fill these small loops is to have a section split by Quick Disconnects. you open them up to attach an external pump-res or empty tone to fill/drain

This little beast turned out so sick! Congrats Phil! I just wish that Jay had flipped the bottom rad over so that the Corsair logo would be right-side-up like it is on everything else. Unless the Corsair rads only have ports on one side of the end tanks, which I wouldn't think they would do. Lol.

Out of all my guesses as an i.t./PC repair tech, I would have never guessed that. Good info to put in my toolbox of knowledge 😁

Welp, I can't even remotely begin to argue that this title is clickbait. I would NEVER in a million years guess that it was a fan. That is a really nice looking build. I LOL'd way too hard when the glass launched itself to the ground during the peel!

Idk how many times i've seen that WoWarships ad. but It never gets old. also, you look damn good as a captain, sir.

Wild.. Nice set up again guys!

Persistence and attention to detail win again! Well done Jay. =:o}

I might be wrong especially for modern mainboards, but old ones had CPU fans with notably higher power draw, if you used a old CPU fan with bad bearing (higher resistance) as chassis fan it could easily fry your motherboard. If you think that one was hard to diagnose: I once had a power LED fail in a way where it was still working but drew too much power and shut down the PC (oc protection?). I tought I was going crazy because everything worked outside the case (where I didn't have the power LED connected) and the last thing you'd suspect is a working LED.

Missed oppotunity Jay... Should have done a montage of a disassembled system, just for the giggles :) It's always nice/fun to see these "this weird shit happened" videos... I've messed around with computers for over 20 years... I would have never expected such a problem to be a fan

I remember the reason now why i check if all fans are spinning once a month. 🤣

Ah, the bizarre joys of building and testing computers, you run into so many weird situations. Had one a couple months ago when I built a computer for someone. Significant RAM corruption, thought it was bad components. It was a singular strand of hair I'm assuming making contact with the pins. Removed it, problem fixed.

I love your videos and your honesty when something goes wrong.👍👏 I know its a lot of fun to do that kind of builds. BUT its so much easier and more prudent for the normal guy at home to take a normal case (matx) and use good air cooling. And btw it is cheaper too! I did several sff gaming machines and its always a challenge.

Looks amazing.

This will be remembered in the JayzTwoCents archives as "The Fan Jam Disaster." No PC's were hurt during the filming of this episode. Monitored by ASPC-P.

12:48 Noob guess - since it's a daisy chained PWM - it got some sort of PID error since PMW is technically a PID controller of sorts depending on how it's programmed? I think?

Man I wish you fixed viewers’ pc’s cuz I’ve been chasing an issue with mine for like 2 weeks and I can’t figure it out for the life of me😂 you’re so knowledgeable with them it’s scary