I'm excited to see it running, and for the dyno run! My personal feelings are that the NA power won't be crazy impressive compared to a normal healthy renesis, but that a turbo version will breathe better than the average 13b. Like other people have said I'm worried about turbulence and such, but that shouldn't matter as much with 15psi pushing through the motor. Which is why I'm personally so excited you're doing these experiments for us! Thanks for the content
i feel like the reason most people aren’t doing hybrids is the lack of “off-the-shelf” parts such as engine mount bracket and headers… with that being said, I hope one day the hybrid parts become readily available and fairly priced cuz I’d love to have one in my rx8. Love what you’re doing and’ve following the build since it was just an idea so cheers for making it run
So stoked to see this thing running!! But I am worried the apex seals are going to start losing compression as they bow over the peripheral exhaust ports. Mazdatrix has said this is an issue.
You can make a single exhaust gasket using copper sheet and making an indent into it on one side as a crush ring with the flathead screwdriver on a block of wood. It works perfectly and you can reuse it.
I have a hybrid 5 port renesiss built by Adom at rotary specialties In Calgary Alberta. I got a lot of info from Mazda tricks. They built a few of them the 1st one he had a custom header built like yours and then he went to cutting up a cheap Chinese header and pluming the GSL ports into the front and back runners and found no big difference. even with a DS1 Procharger pushing 12lbs of boost making 460 HP. He sells the 5 port flange and pre cut gaskets you will need and it doesn't leak. I had Secret Rotary Tuners in Greece tunning it on line and got close to a proper tune but there were intermittent strange issues that turned out to be bad solder points on the Adaptronic ECU . It was a new ECU but Adaptronic sold to Haltec and it was 2 months past the point of getting Warranty. i had the local electronics guy touch up 3 different solder points and inspect all of the other ones under the microscope and ran it 80 kms trying to get it to stumble but it ran perfect then i shifted it from 1st to second at 8k and mated it out and my 35 235 20s went up in smoke it hit the rev limiter before i could get my foot out of it and when it idled down i could tell that i hurt it.probably a corner seal. a 250 walburo fuel bump can support 400hp on pistons but a Rotary iv been told takes a 340. So i plan to put in a 340 with a flow back to tank regulator and pull it apart to find where the compression on 2 of the front rotor faces went then a lot of fun will be had.
@@noname-sd5dt I didn't mention that the year before when I originally bought the Adaptronic I had a normal renni blow up on the Dyno at 8 psi i wrote it off as the Dyno shop didn't hook up my water methanol but now I think it was the intermittent throttle position sensor giving bad data. needless to say along with the 340 pump i will be going Haltec or possibly a MAX as Haltec left me hanging at 2 months after warranty.
Mate, you could not get the smile off this 55 year olds face ,when I heard the RX8 start with no leaks . I would be interested in. - HP difference between the 13B's (rx8 ,rx7) - Fuel consumption , in Australia, that's an issue . -and the centre port does interest me, I think you're on a winner with taking it all the way down the line. Anyway good luck and Can't wait for the next video,
The majority of RX8 owners don't have the finances to Turbocharge their renesis. Otherwise they'd all have 13B-REW swaps. Most RX8 owners just want a better more reliable NA engine solution, and the hybrid is the way. We just need to get more data to see if the money and time are justified.
Aaron Cakes would be very proud of you! He built the first six-port turbo FC in Canada! All he did was take out the 6 Port plugs and leave the port's wide open at all times so it's basically like a four-port turbo but with six ports! It'll definitely run longer than an RX-8 Renesis that's been touched😂
I'm most cautious about the apex seal size, unsure if the rx8 seals are up to the challenge of passing over the exhaust port. Also, the port timing is supposedly really bad causing almost too much overlap for N/A drivability
It'll definitely be exciting to see it running on a dyno. I've been dying to see more research done on the subject. I have thought about a hybrid setup on my 85 GSL-SE, but Im unsure if it's a thing that works both ways, like backwards compatibility. Besides the obvious money issue and shop access, I guess why I'd save I haven't done it yet is how hard it is to come by research on hybrids, whether or not it would work on a GSL-SE motor versus a Renesis motor, how much extra add-ons like a standalone ECU might be required, and of course the issues of port timing and exhaust design. I've heard a lot of people say the hybrid setup is great for turbo's, but doesnt do much for an NA motor, so I'd love to see how it performs NA, cause Im an NA guy lol.
I'd be interested to see each rotor's exhausts merged separately, then true dual after that, or a really late merge like the old RB "street port" exhausts. I'm relatively new to the channel, and loving it so far. You don't play the ditz like Rob does, and that's a good thing.
@@jamfd3s788 it's the part where he tries to come off as an air head, but we know he's not. I think it's someone he does to try and keep things entertaining. I watch all his stuff, and I'm a fan, but there are times I'll be yelling at the screen "you're smarter than this!"
the exhaust flag, exhaust manifold, finding all the part to just build the keg. Then all the small bits and bobs that a frankin motor would need. @radpotential I'd love if you could to a cost break down, Parts, hours of work, skills needed (if you have to pay someone for thing..etc). I've been wanting to build one for my FC Track car for years but never pulled the trigger on the part because I worried it might turn into another unfinished engine build.
Dude go to home Depot get you a copper door guard or a roof trim panel. And get to cutting. Iv used both for head gaskets in race motors and exhaust gaskets just make sure you hit with a torch until it gets glowing and let it cool slow to annel it (makes it soft so it seals)
The biggest problem with the hybrid for me is the scarcity of parts, information (thank you for your part), and of course the price to performance. It seems more worth it to just throw an REW or RE for the price. I personally would love to do this if I had a garage lift and all the tools and parts
I think nobody builds Renesis hybrids because too many old head rotors guys hate on the Renesis too much. With the rew prices being so high now tho I think a Renesis hybrid could be great. I built one but never tested anything just ran and drove it
I'm here to see how the rx8 apex seals hold up passing over the rx7 ex port. Cuz that saves a lot of cost and hassle when building a hybrid. I'd love to see and stand alone management and better intake manifold tested. Thanks for the great content rad
can we smack in some exhaust valves in the manifold so you can pick and choose ports at certain RPM's? you can for example even hook up a vacuum line into the VFAD loop and have it only open the rx7 ports at high rpm
We must protect this MAN at all costs. He’s close to cracking the secret to the hybrid renesis motor he has now to help all of us rotor heads to gain serious power. Please continue your rotary research and I wish I could work by your side to learn a lot from you. #REALROTARYSH*T
Finding someone who is willing to build a hybrid is a pretty big limiting factor along with a lot of negative noise from people when you suggest it. You get the "you wouldn't know if you arse was on fire" However a complete lack of information on any cost v performance always makes me hold off ie, is it a cheaper option to go for a REW, or am I better off going for a pp 13b, or hybrid. Buggered if I know. It takes someone like you to build, test and release the information to help with these decisions. Thanks Erich for having a crack😊
It may be that people have done it and found it was too much trouble for not much gains. I posted a video of the guy in Malaysia who did the same thing as you, bridge ported and everything. He got something like 230whp revved to 10k. I don’t have any direct experience but “some people” say you can get as much with a properly built Renesis. And then what I like to say is… if this was such a great idea you’d see the RX-7 guys doing it, but you don’t. Nobody seems to bother except RX-8 guys 🤷🏻♂️
Being an NA guy myself, I'm excited to see some steady progress on this build! I'd like to see all of that middle port stuff tested me personally I think it will make the most power with it merged after the collector. The hybrid does sound like a mix between an rx8 and an rx7 but I'm still holding out for when it gets up to 8000rpm+ on the dyno! If it makes about 190whp that would be awesome. Also I think your idea with merging the side and peripheral ports ought to work pretty well. Waiting for tuesday for the dyno vid.
I wish you could do it with different center irons to get rid of the annoying middle exhaust ports. You could build a super efficient header that way and still retain the main rx8 exhaust ports.
Greetings: Well I have an acquaintance who rebore the engine with new housings, the rotors were made 2mm like the old ones with Power Seal, Apex seals, it has adaptronic plug and play, it was programmed by someone who knows a lot about rotors for many years, and it was tuned on a Dyno that is not heavy so that it gives good # and the final result was 151hp !!! That is unacceptable, the best thing is to do it later on turbo, that is if he has 3" pipes and 3" 1/2 pipe, I understand that he is emptying, he should be left with 2 1/4 and 2 1/2 pipes. I have been following you for a while and I am eagerly awaiting your results because I am very curious, good luck and I hope everything goes well
I would for turbo reasons, n/a just keep the renesis, but if you want to turbo the rx8 without having to spend 13k on a 13b rew, I think 500$ apex seal groove, 250$ apex seals and springs, and some used gsle housings is the best bang for your buck, not to mention for drag racing, it might be the new trend to get easy 9s reliably without burning a hole in your pocket
For me I'm a little hesitant to mod any rotary to the point of needing a stand alone ECU. How quickly you can damage a rotary with a bad tune sounds risky and potentially very expensive. If I was to invest money and time in a hybrid, then I think I would "Go all in" an add a turbo (probably on the small side and cheap) and a Haltech 2500. Hopefully keeping ABS, traction control and gauges working. If a small turbo could be run on the factory ecu with Versatuner,I think a proven package could be popular. Having enough power to destroy clutch, transmission or rear-end sounds like headache. I would just like it to be faster and have fun on the street.
14:00 maybe do the standard RX8 idle adjustment? You know, the one with hitting brake 20 times until the car waves its oil pressure indicator at you and letting the car idle for 15 min afterwards
I hope it’s worth it, I have seen lots of speculation on how it would compare to a rew swap. But never any real data of a running/driving/healthy hybrid. I know Mazdatrix did and say it’s possible but no real useable information is shared imo. I’d love to do a hybrid and am just waiting for more information to be shared. With Mazda making new rews 12K+, a hybrid is super appealing. (Man I gotta make a patreon to get sub to you)
Congrats on getting it running. I'm not sure this is the kind of question you're looking for, but I want to know if the RX8 6-speed gearbox will survive about 300whp. I think it would be fun to have 6 short gears from the RX8 in a mildly modified FD, but some people online say the transmission won't survive. Intended use would be street driving, autocross, and occasional track days. No drag racing.
The stock az6 (j160) trans used in the rx8 (gen1) is a hit or miss, some blow them up with stock power and other have them at 350hp+. really depends on the abuse (And type of clutch used). u can make the trans stronger by doing the circlip mod (like they did in the Nismo s15 az6 gearbox) but can be a bit costly. another option is the gen 2 rx8 trans which is an upgraded trans but are more sought after and costs more (but still like the s1 trans has issues with failing)
Braps are nice though. I found with a bp on standard ecu you need to lean it out a bit to about 15.5 afr, clear leading and trailing timing correction to 0, and add more timing split. I have a tune on the versatuner forum i was experimenting with that worked for my bp if you want to see what i mean. Search 80HD.
Mazda used 2 different multi layer gaskets for the rx8, earlier cars had 6 layer gaskets and later cars had 4 layer gaskets, the 6 layer will seal better and can be refused in general, the latter 4 layer doesn't like being reused
*The thing that's prevented me from doing a hybrid is the same thing that has prevented me from fixing my engine (blown coolant seal) in general.* I live in an apartment and don't have a garage to work on anything. I have to find someone who has those things to do my work. I was one of the people suggesting the hybrid. I think people don't do it, because they're lazy. They don't want to have to test anything. They only want to do what others have done, because they know what the results are probably going to be.
Cost/work is a lot vs what you gain. It’s a cool swap but a REW is “less work” and more power. Personally I would do this swap. I think it’s awesome. Thank you for posting good content!
I really would like to see the oem header with some holes in it, if you can get that to work with the oem mount, I think this will become a very popular swap. And the exhaust gasket you can just make one out of copper
The header fab would be the biggest hurdle for me. Also getting 13B housings. I actually have 2 complete renesis motors. Not sure what to do with either.
I wouldn't do it just because it seems kind of pointless. At the end of the day, you've effectively just got a regular 13B with massive exhaust ports and most likely some very turbulent exhaust flow. I wish you the best on the Dyno, but I don't think it will make any more than a ported RX7 13B, and you could have one of those for a whole lot less headache than it seems like this build is giving you.
I agree with this. One thing I would say is that's N/A. I think it would be worth it for turbo most definitely. The only issue I see is possible turbulence issues... but with proper header design, I think you could mitigate that. Essentially, with a hybrid, you get more air in and more air and heat out. That's potential for more power. Efficiency is everything.
Biggest deterrent as you have figured out is the exhaust. Header design and fabrication of course, but also the ports. 5 ports kills exhaust velocity, and really hurts scavenging. Ideally you would delete the side exhaust ports altogether, but how to do that reliably? 🤔. Some guy tried filling them with zinc... .. that ended predictably poorly 🤣. At the very least delete the siamese port and you could hope to have some kind exhaust tuning and make header design much easier. At the end of the day most people probably go ghost because without addressing these issues the n/a results likely don't exceed what a blueprinted stock renesis can produce. And with all the haters saying "I told you so" their ego simply won't allow them to share the truth. BTW did you test the ECU before the first startup?
You mentioned the exhaust pulse from the RX-7 port helping to draw out the exhaust from the RX-8 port, but you are forgetting the overlap between intake and exhaust. The idea behind having overlap between intake and exhaust ports is that the exhaust pulses help to draw in fresh air since the intake and exhaust ports are “connected” during overlap (hot exhaust rushes out creating a low pressure behind it, thus pulling in fresh air through the intake ports… at higher RPM). In this case you have added more ports for the exhaust gases to escape, so my question is… will this engine have enough exhaust velocity to take advantage of the intake-exhaust overlap. Maybe if you spin it to 10k RPM? Since the intake manifold is made to work with the 0-overlap condition of the Renesis, are you leaving the valves in or how are you going to run that stock intake manifold?
Where I live, 3 Mazda dealers with in a 30 drive. You don't see a lot of rx8s. Than you wonder why no high breed motors. Really don't see many on my daily drive. But the socker mom suv's mini blazers mini Explorers R everywhere ... Just keep on teaching us - that racer kmr - anit putin to the pavement. 🏁 81 ,90 rx7 owner , not a poser ...
I can't confirm this using a torch to aircraft spark plug washers, you can quench them and reuse them, if you do that with a large surface area gasket you'll have to heat everything up to glowing which may be a challenge before quenching it all at once in water
@@danielkruger4305 to be honest I have not watched the whole video yet but the washers for the spark plugs for small aircraft are thick copper and when you heat them up to cherry red and drop them in a cup of water it makes them valuable enough that you can bend them with your fingers, like I said I hadn't watched the whole video yet
@@stanh3448 you don't need to quench the copper. If I reuse copper washers on brake lines I anneal them to make sure they seal properly and I've never quenched.
Personally I dont have budget for such a build on mine but I'll throw in my 2 cents. The goal with the hybrid reni is to be a lower cost option for preformance compared to a full motor swap. Takes longer to source and build everything but you save the cost of replacing the whole motor, ecu, mounts? Now I would give that there are marginal gains to be had reni to reni hybrid but the real question is preformance to cost to time. 1) Would a NA hybrid out preform other NA "stock" or ported mazda kegs. 2) A Hybrid reni in theory could handle FI better than a stock reni so how would a FI hybrid reni stack up against other FI stock kegs REW swap. 3) (and circling back) is a hybrid reni FI going to be cheaper, easier, or longer lifespan (hard to test & subjective IK) than dropping say a stock longblock FI REW. I know some guys have played with hybrid setups (k. mohan) but I think that NA the gains are too marginal for most to justify time and cost to build compared to a straight rew swap where you have data, a good track record, have guides out there. Not everyone can fab headers or are comforatable building a keg. "What 1 or 2 things does a hybrid reni do better than every other setup" . I love what your doing buddy keep fighting the good fight.
I still wanna see air pumped into that center port with a shop vac or something, no clue if it'll do anything significant or make it run like absolute ass, but what if it helped move gases out the other ports more efficiently? 99% chance it's a poor idea, but it's an easy thing to implement for shits and giggles
Brother.. just north of you in Michigan and acquiring the pieces for turbo hybrid. Would love to chat... hell I can come down there. Let's do some rips.
When i manual swapped my 04 rx8 it had the surging idle when in gear i hade to wire in a clutch position sensor i bet the sensor in your car is bad causing the sweeping idle
I don't like the fact you need older housings, but my RX8 4 port engine is nearing his end and I need to rebuild it. So i would be interested to do that instead of putting 8-10k Euro into a REW engine. How much did it cost to swap it to a hybrid?
As far as doubting how well it works, the Rx8 intake port opens much sooner than the REW which is probably killing your idle. If it makes hp, it will be far far up in the rpms. I hope I'm wrong because if I am, I'm building one.
Every one commenting about rx8 apex seals not lasting in nz they run rx8 rotors in older 13b engines they just get the grooves machined deeper so you can run the rx7 apex seals should be able to do that with rx8 not sure
Sounds good …. I’d say it’ll have a lot more top end and heat will escape a lot faster … gains will show and prolly occur from 5-6k rpm’s….. I think people don’t have enough knowledge in the hybrid so people don’t want to bite the bullet …. Rx8 parts aren’t as cheap new compared to rx7 in ways …. Plus the parts commodity for hybrid builds of any sort…. Plus the tuning prolly isn’t within the pockets reach either … most people don’t want to do the work or research themselves and rather watch other people make the mistakes so they can live in the shadows of other peoples hard work lol no offense ….
I love rotary engines. But it's a very - very expensive hobby to get involved with 😂😂 the hybrid is cool, I would do one if I had access to someone else's bank account 😂😂
Why don't you buy a vig exhaust gasket sheet and cut a full size gasket? That's what I did. The gasket sheet is like 25 dollars at autozone. Could make two from one sheet..... 🎉
Honestly I love it and would build one for the Repu i want to own but I am a glutton for punishment. My only worry is the unknown reliability but I'm here for the build anyway.
Ok I got a 88rx7 asked my home boy to get her just running door me. He wants to trade me his built ready to go rx8 for it plus a little 💰. Good or bad idea? I love the rx7 from what I hear you can’t compare them
