So Neace, as an NA Thresh main, he was trying to describe the animation of flay, it starts from behind you, so pulling an enemy towards you with the cast is instant, whereas you can preemptively cast it due to the "cast time" it gets from pushing someone away from you. In a case like Lee Sin or Jarvan or any champion with a dash you can start you flay away from you to predict their engage and keep them far away from you. It's VERY important against an engage enemy support bot like Leona or Alistar, even Amumu jungle because even if they land their ability on you, you can pre-cast your flay away from you and hit them with the very tip of it and keep them out of range to land their other abilities. Pre-casting flay is amazing for denying engages EVEN IF the ability lands. I love Thresh because he keeps my idiot ADCs safe without them having to realize they're letting a level 6 Leona click on them for free. Flays passive damage also scales % of AD, and also 100% of your souls add to the first hit damage that Flay does. Flays damage scales up linearly over 10 seconds before it does max damage on each auto. Aside form Flay usage, if you need to use your lantern to get someone out, you need to be throwing it down AND WALKING AWAY, as its max range of casting is actually smaller than the max range before it disappears (much like an Anivia ultimate if you've played her before, or even Azirs soldier auto range indicator). Aside form throwing it in an unclickable location, one of the biggest mistakes people make is throwing the lantern wanting someone to click on it...and then they walk right up to the enemy that your ally is trying to escape. The hook is also a double-edged sword when helping someone escape, as the tugs are pretty high movement, I'm not sure of the movement speed equivalent, but I know that it's faster than tier 1 boots, so while it makes sure they don't get hit while running away, it doesn't really create a gap between them and the enemy like a traditional stun or root would. This is where pre-casting Flay away from you gets a ton of extra value as you can use it to "cancel" the second pull of your hook by hitting them at the start of the pull before any distance happens while getting the knockback and pushing them closer to where they started. Of course, having mobility boots now puts you in a potentially dangerous situation, but that's just the life of a support keeping stupid people who got caught alive. The lanterns shield also scales with souls collected. Thresh's Box also only damages the first target that hits a wall, and subsequent walls slow for half the duration. It's still a 99% slow so basically a root, but really landing that first wall on the right target is very important for 100-0'ing some stupid squishy ADC that thinks he can fight you with a max level Flay. He was also describing an animation cancel on Thresh. Casting your ultimate has a delay before the damage frames activate, so Flay-Boxing CCs them during that time AND positions them neatly on the box for damage, but sometimes Box-Flaying gives them time to flash in a direction and avoid the box. When the coach mentioned Thresh being a mixture of engage and enchanter support it was very accurate, as you actually want to typically sit inside of your backline to peel. With your hook you can still CC their backline, but more often than not you should be acting as a peel/reposition tool for your immobile carries due to lanterns OPness. Very rarely will you want to use lantern as a shield, but there are also tons of situations (Karthus ult for one) where you just drop it to take a bit less damage. But if you think you'll need to reposition someone in the next 25 seconds, best to hold on to it. You can also throw your Lantern to pick up souls from a safe distance. Neutral objectives also drop two souls for you, and as the coach said Thresh is the only champion in the game that does NOT get armor per level, so these souls are actually necessary to remain relevant. There is a catch-up mechanic in the game that most people don't know about with Thresh's souls where each minion has a "chance" to drop a soul (I forget the exact %), but if he is below the average armor per level of champions his current level, the rate goes up, if you're snowballing and shitting on kids and have a higher armor per level, the rate slows down. Just another way Riot keeps you from being too far ahead of the people you're better than I suppose. Lastly, the best way that I've found to dealing with having 5 actives and boots is I actually rebound my item buttons to 1, 2, 3, 4(trinket), shift-1, shit-2, shift-3. I also use shift-q,w,e,r as self cast, which is useful for enchanters with shields like Morgana, Lulu, Janna, etc. as this keeps me from having to click on myself to protect myself and then can better reactively use a shield on whatever target is getting attacked. This is super useful on Morgana as spell shield will prevent incoming CC, so if you're both in range to be CC'd you can just hover your mouse over your ally and shift-cast if they aim at you. Actual lastly, I actually picked up Thresh on release to deal with Leona back when the meta was Taric/Leona/Sona/Alistar back in like season 3 or whatever when he released as a counter to the OP Leona pick. Thresh is versatile and acts as a counter to his enemy support in almost all match-ups. If he is against a hard engage support like Nautilus or Leona then you act more like counter-engage, and only use your Flay to prevent them from going in. The second you use Flay against Leona, she wins the fight and has full reign to your ADCs butthole, but if you hook her and hold Flay and just hold her at arms reach there's not a damn thing she can do to you. If you're against a mage/enchanter, you have the ability to all-in with Flay max. Land a hook, take it, lantern your ADC in, pop ignite, auto once for ~250 damage due to your stacked Flay passive (very important to let this stack before all-inning so you have to pay attention to your minion executes as well) and you can burst any mage nearly solo. If you use your ult as well you can often 100-0 ADCs or mage supports all the way through the late game. On the topic of Flay passive again, you can also use that extra damage to execute a minion faster, as dealing any damage that puts it below 33% health (because Thresh is "ranged" even though he has 425 auto range, damn near melee with the long animation..which your autos go through Yasuo windwall as well, just a note) which you can use to abuse a level 2 all in by executing the last minion at a much higher health than would be expected. This removes that burst damage from the all-in, but a level 2 all in is almost always favorable to you as the level 2 party. There's a ton of nuance to Thresh is his decision making due to his high versatility, which is why I love him. Jack of all trades, master of most in the right hands. Hopefully this cleared up some of the language barrier I was noticing when he was trying to explain certain things such as the Flay cast travel time, and hopefully you learned some more about Thresh, my favorite champion in the game. Sorry it's long, thanks for reading this, anyone who does.
It's such a good thing to have role specific coaches, the one i would miss though is an adc coach that knows the in and outs of the role and the macro behind it.
cookiemanlol is a great adc coach, did an unranked to chall coaching series on his youtube channel and it helped me a lot with champions, matchups, micro and macro check it out
I'm a main thresh (I've reached d2 at some point), it's so interesting to watch a thresh coaching and remember that he's a really hard champion, because you do things so automatically after a while, that you just forget how complex this champion is. Rayskat is a great thresh player, I wish that he streamed more. Great video!
Not sure if this was already said, but the flay animation is actually the same amount of time. If you flay toward or away and the enemy is right on top of you, it takes the exact same amount of time. The animation is moving from one end to the other, so "toward" you would start the animation at the enemy, while "away" from you would start the animation on the other end. So, the advantage only works if the enemy isn't right on top of you.
Wow, years of playing thresh and never noticed the E delay. Loving these series man, keep it up! (Also man, you not getting the souls was Triggering Me)
8:37 "Honestly I was just working, man, but this game is actually fun as fuck"... The coach we all praise xD BTW at 17:00 there's the Neace mentality in a support player right there xD
I have to say that I love this series as much as the coaching videos. It's great to see a teacher that accepts the fact that even the teacher should never stop learning. It's also nice to see some role specific knowledge being added to Neace's repertoire. I feel like this can only help strengthen his coaching. Neace has the general macro down, now he is going for a Ph.D. in every role and character lol.
Thresh E starts behind him and ends in front of him. THAT makes the different. The "swing" takes about 0.3 sec from start (behind him) to end (in front of him) position.
I could see you smile after you learned about the first vs. second pull interactions with the thresh ult. That's how I know you aren't hyping it up for content, because I get the exact same way about this kind of stuff. I can't help but get excited when I learn about these tiny details lmao.
I have no idea why youtube never recommends me your stuff and I have to manually look for it while I get bombarded by vids of really random channels all the time, but I still appreciate your vids man
I'm glad I've been accepted for the boot camp, but sad in the same time. The price amount for my country is huge, for example, the most common salary is 300-400-max 500 dollars. Sadly for me, I won't join the boot camp, but I do look forward seeing someone else happy in my place. I hope you guys have fun and climb up as much as you can! Love you guys, and much respect for Neace. Peace out.
It was fun seeing him struggle with the actives of the items. Im a support main and a lot of the times my friends brag about how they survived that crazy team fight but don't realize the amount of shields, abilities and actives that I had to press to keep them alive. Redemption, locket, Mikhael, hooks, bubbles, lanterns, ultimates.
Hey Neace, I just wanted to say thanks for the videos! I'm a coach as well, but for Rocket League and hearing you explain concepts and answer questions has really helped me with the coaching side of an entirely different game. I also gotta say, there aren't many coaches in the esports realm that are willing to hear new and improved concepts that might contradict theirs and its really refreshing to see another coach be able to take criticism. Keep up the great content man!
I recently tried to learn thresh… before i watched this tutorial, i inted like hell. Now i know some good old combos and gameplay, thanks to you. Assist rate went straight up! Awesome Vid, keep up the good work
A really great video! I did not know about the e cast time, depending on the direction. Also, some other lifehacks/combos as well were good to know. I love how the Coach explained all the movements on the map, when X happens. Also, great of you Neace, realizing all the mistakes, so you can fix them one day :D Thanks for the video!
8:25 the projectile starts furthest from thresh and then moves towards him, before moving away again. That's why it's faster. It's a projectile. Same thing with morderkaiser's E.
Always fun playing and watching support, it's a lot more critical thinking instead of the other roles because you wont necessarily do the dmg to win the team fight but the abilities you use can win the team fight. Great match and loved how this video went about explaining everything with thresh
You can pick up armor shards with the lantern also if they're out of range and you can't safely walk up to them. Also, enemies can stand on the lantern to prevent allies from clicking on it.
This is great content, and I love the fact your not like a lot of other high elo guys that just brag about how good they are and down talk lower elo's.
The reason for the "delay" on the flay is because of the direction of the animation and the time it takes for the hitbox to collide with the enemy champion. When you flay away from you, the animation starts behind you and then goes forward, whereas flaying towards you will start the animation in front of you and connect instantly.
hi this just a heads up for Neace, I think the Bootcamp would be a lot more successful in the summer when people have more time for league and a lot of people are out of school or take some time off from work, although I'm still super excited that your doing something like this and I hope it works out great!
something I didn't see mentioned is threshs latern can also be thrown away and when he runs outside its range he gets the shield and shields nearby teammates as well it's a way to utilize it differently as just a shield essentially
That moment, when you are 3 full items and bots 8/4/14 level 14 Jhin, and level 13 2/9/10 Mundo with 30% HP and 120 armor, who just stepped on Teemo's mushroom, is running you down like a cannon minion, and you need 2 tower shots, Gelforce and Flash just to stay alive. What a fucking meta.
Hey Neace, really enjoying all of your content. Hoping to boot camp when the world is a bit more back together. There was something about seeing you learning that was great in this one, knowing that you don't know everything means that you can learn anything :)
Hi Neace. I wasn't sure where to leave this, but I wanted to let you know either way. I was really into the bootcamp and I honestly really want to sign up for it, but some things came in real life and now I don't have the time to dedicate to it anymore. If my situation changes before it starts, I will definitely sign up, but right now I cannot justify spending more time on league at the moment. I wish you the best in your endeavors and hope to see you in the next one.
The lantern warding thing lmao it's one of my favorite things I've done that in so many games idk why I just think its hilarious so ever since I learned about it I look for it.
I got back into league this season after not playing since season 8 . I started in season 3 . Started back up maining thresh and I'm officially gold 1 . My highest rank ever haha . Loved this video man . Good stuff .
Surprised there was no mention of jungle surfing to escape. Maybe there was no situation for it in the game but still an option that is nice to be aware of. Also maybe I missed it or it got edited out, but I’m surprised he didn’t tell you to be a bit more proactive on grabbing as many souls as you can since you don’t scale armor. As well as lantern use to collect further away souls.
Idk if the coach mentioned this but he should’ve told Neace about the lantern blocking of enemy’s pathing and the simple trick to land more hooks by facing a different direction to the champion you wanna hook then cast the hook
I'm tired of hearing from people: "support izi role" "support free lp" "support players are all egirls" I hope at least Neace start respecting Supps after this coaching...
@@jonathanbauer9279 Support isn't an easy role - it's just an easier role to hide bad players in. A Yuumi "support main" who is just sitting on their ADC and winning games by getting carried is very different from a good Yuumi who knows how to manage dismounts/heals/shields/harass. I consider jungle quite similar - if you are playing badly as a jungler, you aren't necessarily going 0/5/0, you could just be 0/0/0, 40 cs down, and have grabbed zero objectives, while the enemy has herald and is 2/0/1. So it can be easier to hide bad players in either of these two "team oriented" roles - but playing any role at a high level is extremely challenging and requires knowledge of its own nuances.
This is kinda 2 years later but there are so many more thresh combo's that were show like q flash qer or, flash erq, there is also erq from a walk up aswell so they hit the box and you can more accurately hit q because of the box slow. So much more cpulda have been shown
Haha Neace seems like he is still reading most of comments so cool :) pumping most interesting content. I know enchanters are not the way to climb... but for fun factor maybe you could try getting some challangers to see what they have to tell, about champs like lux, brand, zyra, swain? gg best of luck sir.
12:52 I'm not too sure he understood exactly what he was agreeing to here, pulling twice with the hook before going in does NOTHING towards how far you can push the enemy. The only reason the dummy didn't hit the wall was because he flayed it perfectly towards one of the corners of the ult. Pulling once and flaying can just as well make the enemy hit the wall of the ult, and pulling twice would NOT make the enemy hit the wall if you angle it directly into that corner.
Not related to this specific video but, Would it be possible to have playlists in your videos in some way? Found myself vibing to it while having u in background last time.
