Excellent opinion-piece Bradley. You should do more. The only point I would argue (as part of that old-school fandom, but not at all against modern tech being part of a live show...), if you're going to rely that heavily on your laptop(s) that when you misplace it/them you actually have to cancel a gig or gigs that hundreds, if not thousands of fans have paid their hard-earned money for and been looking forward to, you should have a backup. Simples.
That was the same thing I thought about the first time I heard about this incident. Falling in Reverse is quite a big band and they seriously went on a tour with only one laptop..no backup? That's a bit odd...but I still agree with Ronnie (although he could've expressed himself a bit less harshly)
Nothing new at all. Johnny Guitar Watson - let me repeat that, Johnny GUITAR Watson - once played a concert over here in Vienna without any guitar because his guitar needed a repair... he told us, he won't touch any other guitar, he said it's the same as with his wife... So maybe the laptop of that guy is THE LAPTOP to him?
Is not just "backups", but redundancy. You can have 10 laptops, but just having them will not guarantee you show. Redundacy will. And redundancy doesn't need to be "another laptop", you could bery much use a tablet or even a cell-phone (with less features, yes, but enough to perform, like tracks and metronomes)
I kind of can't imagine having to have physical backups for literally all of my essential gear. Equipment gets stolen or lost in transit for various reasons all the time on tour, and sometimes the show just can't go on. Usually people maybe bring an extra guitar or something sure, and even if you don't usually it's not that hard to get a fast replacement for the night at a music store somewhere or borrow one from another band playing, so long as your show/technique isn't heavily reliant on certain gear. If I lost a pedal somehow, I could probably similarly make do. But with a laptop like this, redundancy is kind of impossible. If there's an equipment malfunction of some kind, maybe, but if your gear gets stolen or destroyed or lost it doesn't matter how many laptops you had. They're probably all gone. Not to mention it's difficult to financially justify just buying and maintaining a whole extra laptop and all of the extra software needed all over again, just for it to sit there as a backup. I'm sure these guys maybe have the files and software needed back at home and everything isn't totally lost forever or anything, but low-mid level touring tends to mean bringing as little with you as possible. You can't necessarily stop a determined thief from breaking into a vehicle or backstage or cheap hotel or whatever. Unless you can basically hire personal security, the more stuff you bring with you the more vulnerable a target you are.
They did that. It was the late 80s early 90s and less people showed up. Honestly though they would have been better off. Or at least less boring and maybe would have retired Kiss when they should have.
The ironic bit is that some of the most revered dinosaur bands like Rush (I’m a dinosaur and they’re my favorite band) used midi sequencers for decades, going back to the 80’s. They all played their parts live, but there were often more complex synth parts that would have required a dedicated keyboardist, and they were adamant about remaining a trio. Alex and Neil both would trigger parts; Geddy had to cover vocals, bass, and keys and they only have so many limbs.
Rush was a band that near immediately went against the grain with their style of music, they are probably the last dinosaur band to shittalk modern musicians.
Much like Zeppelin playing live, when JPJ would be on keys he had pedals to play the bass parts. To be fair though, it depends on the band: If I'm going to see Celine Dion or Taylor Swift, I want to hear it like it was on the album, but if I'm going to see Iron Maiden I'm happy to see how they do duelling guitar solos without anyone playing rhythm.
And by your point these guys could have just got samplers and sequencers and not need a laptop. It's not about the use of technology, but the ability to play without it.
@@HenritheHorse unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to play without your setup if that's all you're used to. the whole show is on the laptop, from effect changes on the instruments, other sound changes, even the lights and so on... without it is like playing without amps and pedals. basically they could only play acoustic at that point, but I think they're a newer band and with the amount of effects and different setting most bands these days use it's not going to sound like anything.
@@timihari And that is the problem. I remember seeing Periphery for the first time in 2012 with Dream Theater and they missed almost 20 minutes of their 45 minute set, because their macbook didn't work. Petrucci gave a speech to Misha and the guys that you need to be more reliable if you wanna do world tours and they learned from that.
Thank you for that. I'm an old rocker and when I heard about the laptop story, I had a similar negative opinion (though less harsh and a bit indifferent) and the response from FiR didn't help. After hearing your explanation, I learned something about myself. I was gatekeeping and gatekeeping isn't fair. If you think about it.... those laptops contain the digital equivalent of a sizeable crew and controls essential to the performance and how the band wants the show to flow. If Kiss somehow lost their fireworks show you bet your ass they'd cancel.
@@TimInertiatic tell you what, get on stage with an electric guitar with no amps and let me know how it goes. Most bands are running Amp Sims from the same software that runs their click track and lighting cues.
@@blkmarinewolf If they have a problem with 'heavy reliance', they are totally ignorant of how not only live shows, but recording as well, has changed. Most live venues have a tech setup that REQUIRES the bands have their own technology like this. So unless they're doing every show unplugged and acoustic (even then, there would be a certain level of tech needed) these 'legends' have no clue what they're even raging about. People just want something to be angry at and another reason they can adopt a holier than thou attitude toward younger bands. In the end, music is a community.
For me, I don't go to live shows to hear something that sounds exactly like the record, if I wanted that I'd just listen to it myself. I have no problem with bands using laptops and whatever technology to assist in the overall live sound but I still want the main core if the live show being a few lads on a stage playing instruments together. There's just something special about the "rawness" of a live show that can't be replaced by technology.
Agreed. I have no problem with people using laptops during their shows, but I feel it should just be to enhance the show, not to rely solely on it for the entire show. And if they do rely solely on it, either have backups or work arounds for when something happens.
I mean, it’s not like FIR tracks their guitars or drums or anything. Their music is heavily influenced by rap instrumentals and electronic music, meaning a lot of the synth stuff is difficult or impossible to recreate live without tracking
And this, unironically, is why I respect Sir Brian May more than just about any currently-living musician from the golden era of rock music. Instead of turning into a ceaselessly-bitching old relic like so many of his contemporaries, he decided to dedicate his later years - the ones he wasn't using to become a groundbreaking astrophysicist, at least - to supporting and doing work for new artists, like Muse and The Darkness. It's nice to reminisce about the quality of music in the past (even I'm glued to my nostalgic favorites), but living in the past kills the future.
My view comes somewhere between these two extremes. I'm all for bands using modern technology in their shows, especially when, as you point out, it can often provide a better experience with fewer people getting involved. I've been to hundreds of shows over the last 20+ years and so I've seen this transition from entirely old school performances to ones that are entirely dependent on high tech solutions. I'm not familiar with Falling In Reverse's music, so I can't speak to them specifically, but depending on the genre of music a band plays, I certainly do have a greater deal of appreciation for bands that can adapt to the inevitable set backs that happen on tour. I completely understand if a band's style is utterly dependent on tech, specifically because of heavy usage of samples or electronic elements, and in that case if they're going to deliver a poor audience experience, they need to cancel. However, some bands, even if they use significant samples or backing tracks, can probably still put on a good show without it. In fact, some of the best concert going experiences I've had have been ones where the bands have been forced to improvise with technical or logistical issues, and it was precisely seeing the drive and focus that made the live music experience so enjoyable. To that end, it ultimately comes down to the band and their relationship with their fans. If they don't think they can deliver an experience that is worth the time and money of their fans, they owe it to them to cancel. On the other hand, I do think there is likely a little too much reliance on modern tech, and many bands could give more dynamic and enjoyable performances by finding ways to create live interpretations. If it's just some backing strings or piano or vocals, we're probably fine or even better off without it. I will generally respect a band's decision either way. That all said, when I go to a live performance, if there's too much that's obviously pre-recorded and synced, I will feel let down. I know that not every aging guitarist can play as fast or precise as he used to. I know every vocalist, even in their prime, will have nights where they just can't hit or hold certain notes. The best performers, however, will adjust their performances accordingly. I've heard plenty of great singers, clearly knowing they can't hit that high note, choose a lower one. Can't hit that high note tonight? Go an octave down or a harmonized fifth or whatever. I've even seen a few bands that I'm fairly certain will even play the whole song down-tuned a bit, presumably to make it easier on the singer, or play just a hair slower if someone can't quite play that fast list consistently. I'd, personally, rather see these sorts of adjustments rather than relying on pre-recordings to cover them up, and still have a more authentic experience. Regardless, if I like a band, I'll see them, and as long as I enjoy myself, I don't care what they have to do to give me a positive experience.
absolutely. i mean, i'm sure they are able to improvise. bands like FIR can play. why not say "hm okay today this isn't going as planned but before we cancel the show for which so many people waited why not do it a little bit different this time?" isn't this more "rock n roll" than planning every show from start to end? either way there will be people who didn't like the show afterwards, so f*ck it, give them a show. and dont care about the money for one evening. on the other hand, of course, the "old" musicians shouldn't be this extreme in their opinions and differentiate a bit more (sry for probably bad english. but i make a comment like they should make a show)
Totally agree, and to pick up on one of the bands mentioned in the video, Dream Theater, I don't think anyone begrudges James LaBrie the fact that he can't hit the same notes he did when he was 20. As you mention, there are bands however that then adjust the material to deliver a less "on-rails" performance that still allows the audience to have the impression they are seeing something unique to that day. Dream Theater's performances have become incredibly sterile over the years, IMHO, because they added more and more technology to their concerts, essentially to pretend time hasn't passed.
The thing about the tech is, it *should* be replaceable and it shouldn't *all* be in the same location, just in case. It's no different from having multiple instruments even though you only can play *one* at a time. having spare equipment is a must. If you don't have spares, you've gotta at least have a plan for how to replace everything. Computers are no different. If they don't have spares stored separately, someone should at least have a hard drive or USB with the software and addons they need, so they can acquire a new one and set it up in an afternoon.
@@sjdpfisvrj It's interesting to watch them evolve - DT has definitely been on both sides of the spectrum. They played one show where Jordan's keyboard had a bizarre malfunction where one of the keys was off a half-step. After spending ~20 minutes on the phone with tech support they determined the issue wasn't immediately fixable, so they said "fuck it" and swapped instruments with each other and jammed.
I know, I can't stand Ronnie and his shitty band, but even I couldn't side the the dinosaur fossils on this and dunk on him, because he's completely right. It's not like they use laptops to replace the live music, like they just play a recording and air guitar/lip sync over it, and I have a feeling that's exactly what these geezers think is the case. It's all just part of making the show as enjoyable as possible for the audience, and if you have a problem with that, your concerts probably suck.
You pretty much nailed it. Different bands do things differently, some prefer doing it physically with pedals and stuff, others prefer doing it digitally with DAWs, it pretty much boils down to that, and one attacking the other because "that's not X Y or Z" is stupid, they've honed their craft their own way, to say otherwise is like telling a left handed person they're writing wrong because you're right handed
Great vid. And if there's one lesson we can all learn from this debacle, (one I too have learned the hard way) it's to always back up your work in multiple places lol
I agree with some points, disagree with others. I agree that it's silly to dunk on younger bands for not doing it the same way it's been done forever. My main point of disagreement is in watching a band live, if they're relying too much on tracks doing the job it's a big turn off for me. Especially the vocals. By all means, use software to polish whatever and a metronome to keep pace, sure. Orchestral and electronic parts, go ahead (unless you have an actual keyboard player on stage that realistically could play the part). But I'd rather hear shitty backing vocals from the bass player than watch him pretend to sing along to a playback chorus and I'd certainly rather see a sloppy guitar solo or a false note from the lead singer than watch something that's pre-recorded.
I agree with your opinion. But tbh the laptop is not just for the metronome and backing track. Sometimes it also involving in the pyro, the lightning, stuffs like that. At least I respect Ronnie at the fact that he come clean about the reason
Im old enough to have been through it all and it feels like the biggest bands and labels grabbed all the money and then pulled the ladder up after them by letting it all go to garbage for the internet age. They didn’t stop DJs from replacing live acts in the mid-80s and they didn’t stop apple, amazon and spotify from making global monopolies on music distribution and paying new artists pennies. They got paid but left the the industry totally screwed up for the musicians behind them.
Extremely insightful - I am partial to being a boomer myself - although I also love modern metal- having my musical baptism in the 80's, your overview on the whole recording industry then vs now and why things are different seems spot on! More of this, in addition to everything else you do!
Most of singers without their laptop: aww fuck guys can't sing that part Bruce Dickinson: Old my trooper, ima run 15 kilometers on the stage and sing this shit
I agree with everything you said about these aging rockstars being stuck in the past. However I don't think that is the real issue here. It's the fact that they canceled an entire show that thousands payed to see simply because their laptop went missing that's bothering me. I mean seriously, did they not have a backup anywhere? I work in the sound industry and we always make sure that our backups have backups.
Hopefully Falling in Reverse will learn something and have a back-up plan for anything that is essential for their performance. My mind is blown that more than one show had to be cancelled.
I'm all for bands using technology for stuff they wouldn't be able to play normally(symphonic passages, intros, samples, whatever), but unless your music HEAVILY relies on said technology, there shouldn't be a reason you can't play at least a condensed version of your set. But what do I know? I wouldn't know the first thing about making music. lol
Their music does heavily rely on technology. A lot of bands can't play without it. Backing tracks are the least of the problem too. Even if they don't use backing tracks, most bands use tech for helping them keep rhytm for example, that's why you can see a lot of musicians wear wireless earpieces. A lot of times they can't actually hear each other while playing live(this could also depend on the stage setup), so they need this to hear what's going on, so to say. And most importantly, today most effect and sound changes are automated on laptops instead of doing it all manually while playing, so for most bands it's pretty much impossible to play without it. But knowing how heavily they rely on technology, they really should have a backup copy of their laptop.
I'd like to thank you for this, because it has helped me to better understand the situation. Being 51, I do default to that 'dinosaur ideal,' if only because - without knowing more - it kept things simple: plug in; play your show; go home. To this, I'd ad that I never wanted the live show to sound like the album, because that's what the album's for. I don't mind hearing the imperfections which is what - for me - made the live shows more interesting. That said, I don't want a band to be lipsynching, either. Within limits, I'll pay for imperfection; I don't want to pay for people who aren't - actually - performing. So, I can appreciate - given the, current, environment - why bands are doing as they are, using the equipment they are. Regarding how we got here (and, perhaps, you might help with this), it would seem to me that the problem started with Napster and the fact that people didn't want to pay for music, anymore. Though I knew it wouldn't go anywhere, I supported Metallica's lawsuit against Napster, because not paying for music would make it much more difficult for artists - and the music industry - to survive (which is why bands have to tour more, sell more merch, and have constant access via whatever platform is hot to remain relevant). It's like taxes: everyone wants tax-breaks, because nobody wants to pay taxes; yet, these same people become irate when services are cut, because they forget that taxes are the sources for the services they were using/enjoyed. I work in Film/TV in Toronto. I pay for several movie platforms and still rent videos from the few rental places that remain, because I know that downloading everything makes it much more difficult for my industry to survive. Plus, I do enjoy the physical medium and I love going to rental stores. I hope this makes sense; and I do thank you for increasing my understanding of subject I hadn't, really, given much thought. Best, J
i'm 50, follow you cuz i love what you do. i think what you are missing about my gneration is we don't care if you sound like the album, we just wanna experience how the band sounds live, raw and in the moment, hope that makes sense to you.
I agree with you, i love the feel of the experience when i just play, and im having fun, thats a priceless feeling, also i accept and embrace the whole tecnologies that my generation have, cause to me everything its about enjoying, have fun, listen, and being creative with anything you want to come out.
@@gutsfisherman5378 imagine being that dumb to not have backup. These idiots are on the same level to having a single instrument, so if your guitar breaks you cancel the entire show. As the dude above us said (and what i was implying in my post) is that if you're making music that heavily relies on technology you have to have a back up, just as much as I'm sure they do with their instruments and amps/Kempers/whatever the fuck they use. What if in the middle of the show that laptop would stop working? Do they stop the entire fucking set and cancel it because their laptop broke? See how stupid that sounds?
To your point of how much the industry has changed, the band I'm in got to go on tour opening for a decently big band from the 90's/00's and in the green room after one of the shows, the lead singer/songwriter of the band was telling us how back in the 90's all you had to do was write a couple of cool hooks and look like a cool guy and MTV and big labels would come a-knockin. He admitted that if they had to start over again in today's world there is no way they would be famous.
i was a touring guitarist for a hard rock band in 2007-2010 and they were doing this way back then and even THEN it was nothing new. it was pretty much widely accepted that every band we were contemporaries with were doing the exact same thing. on that level, there is very limited room for slip-up. our entire show was clicked out, the drummer controlled it all so we could hold for applause (or not if the crowd was NOT into it....which happens too often hahaha) instruments and vocals were live, but 808s and rap beats and some of the extreme BG vox were on the track. this is old news and eddie trunk, honestly, should know that
I'm part of a local Metal/Core band and have put a lot of work into songwriting and orchestration (synths, orchestra, choir, multiple ambient guitars etc). I wouldn't want all of that missing when we play live.
@@snow15243 there are many moving lines that would be kind of impossible to play with two hands on one keyboard without a lot of programming... which would then in turn defeat the purpose of having a keyboard player instead of a laptop that just plays the programmed parts. But I shouldn't need to justify why we don't have a keyboard player - we like our current setup and that is the single reason why it's the best live rig for us
Does it really add some value to your live shows? Metalcore shows? Or just some messy sh*t that nobody remember two seconds after? Live rock shows are great to express the essence of your music. This is why great band can perform great unplugged - they know essence of their music and can express it different ways.
I'm a more "seasoned" guy (old) so a lot of the stuff new bands do with laptops is beyond me. That said, it doesn't make their stuff less awesome if they're using a laptop. I think some old heads equate technology with cheating. Dont let it get you down man. Love your channel, keep doing what you do
90% of the laptop is just the roadie, pitbitch, and pedal monkey in one spot. The shit SB and Ted Nughead are complaining about was simply handled by a live mixer and he probably didn't know it. You don't think the mixer and roadie didn't set up reverb, doubles, and peak mutes? That shit existed with Frank Sinatra, Franki Valli, and Bobby Darin, they were OBCESSED with mic tech and live mixing and this was analog mixing in the 50s.
Being someone from the "old days" the only point I keep thinking of is this......I refuse to spend $150.00 for a ticket to see someone dance around and pretend to play. Old band or new. I'll just stay home. I'm sure I'm not missed at all.
Reluctantly, I've gotta agree, you've a valid point here on where music has come to, a reality that isn't easy to digest, and also, very well articulated so fair balls to you. Now here's the 'however': Theres gotta be something to be said about contingency on the bands part. If you break a string - you replace it, if you lose a guitar/amp - again, relatively easy to replace at short notice. But if your show depends on one particular element that can't go on without, then it's gotta be treated like an arm or a leg, and a contingency has got to be considered, within reason. Besides the fans being disappointed at a cancelled show, there's likely a lot of other disappointed people working that night too who needed the paycheck. I would just hope lesson's were learned. Thanks for taking the time and effort, to make the vid.
I WAS of the older opinion but Brad you really opened my eyes on the laptop of live shows. I still think new artists have a much more difficult time to make a living in music
Don't do music to make a living. That ain't my kind of musician. Music is Art. Anyone else is just filling holes. Normies. I guess NPCs are needed, but that's all they are. Ewww.
Totally agree with you, when I get around to being able to play live, I’m not gonna be hiring another 10 people to play all of the individual fx, percussion, layered synths just to satisfy a few. I’d rather have software make all of the pedal changes for me, so I can focus on playing. I love classic rock and metal, those guys deserve respect, but modern bands aren’t classic rock and they aren’t trying to be. There’s nothing wrong with using technology to assist your production to deliver an awesome show. Even Michael Jackson lip-synced now and again so he could nail the choreography, it seems like people who criticise them just like to moan about something.
Software having all the pedal changes looks like a big return on investment and in making life easier, but then you need to play to a click and well...having computers is a must then...bigger preproduction, but once its set up it works good live, makes the music really tight, Kiko Loureiro talks about this stuff and shows backstage. The only reason anyone would want to hear a wrong note live is just to boost their own self esteem imho. Im still against full on syncing to a track, thats really lame...i want my moneys worth, a good show, but also see people genuinly play their instruments.
@@cycomiles4225 definitely, having all the musicians mime on stage would be just like watching a live music video, which I think would suck for rock/metal bands lol not too bad with pop, but like yourself, I’d still rather see musicians perform their parts. But having technology aid the production, enhances everything in my opinion and results in a much tighter performance. Meshuggah play to a click track, with all of the setting changes automated for the axe-fx etc, and it results in a much cleaner, polished performance, and they can also sync the awesome light show they have which takes it up another level 🤘🏼
No. Nonononono. It's not about the backing tracks. It's not about "being able to perform to the same starndard". It's about being able to perform. When you have to cancel a gig just coz no backing tracks from a mfing laptop .... no. You're not rock/metal. You're EDM. Pop. millivanilli. Falling could've gone in raw, explained the situation to the crowd like "because of the circumstances you are gonna get a very raw show" and I'm 99.99% confident that the crowd would've loved it. Instead they went "boohoo lappy missing. lets cancel and blame the crew" Unacceptable.
Can we also point out that almost every single live show for the past 40+ years has been aided by the use of compressors, EQ, Gates, Limiters, Effects and Signal Processors, and an entire host of bulky audio equipment to help make the bands sound "better" or the same as their "album" or "studio" sound. Using a Laptop just compresses all of this into, well, a Laptop. It's just a modern form of audio and signal processing, it's nothing new, just a different format.
There's a huge difference in the way those effects are used though, compared to modern laptop use. Before digital consoles became standard, the engineer had to set up all those effects more or less from scratch for each show. Tedious, sure, but actually a good thing because every venue has different room acoustics, every crowd is different, the band may play different, etc.. Their goal is not to make the live show sound like the studio version, but to make it sound good for the circumstances. Of course, that doesn't mean being able to save the settings of a digital console between shows is bad - it does make sound checks much less of a hassle. But a good engineer will _still_ fine-adjust the parameters as needed. Likewise, a good keyboarder using virtual instruments on her laptop will still play them like the analogue counterparts and also adjust parameters. But if the laptop just spools off preprogrammed tracks, this isn't really possible.
Nice take! I agree except for the backing track part. Something about knowing part of the live show I paid for has pre recorded elements turns me right off.
Laptops, samples & virtual instruments are great but playing to a backing track does take some of the fun out of a live show to me. Seeing the drummer go off to a click in the knowledge that exactly 64 bars and 108 seconds later there will be sampled choir that everyone has to be in time with just isn't as cool as a performance where the drummer can push the Tempo, the singer can ad lib a verse, the guitarist can add improvisation to a solo. I love old Rolling stones tracks that end with an endless jam where everyone is having a great time in the groove. I can't see how you'd do that playing to a backing track.
I agree with this take - I'm fine with a band using pre-recorded instruments when playing an "instrumentally rich" song (i.e. there aren't enough band members to play all the parts), but if an aging singer can't sound good without being heavily backed up by studio vocals, then it might be time for a new vocalist (or just play the song in a lower key)
@@roberthunt6839 having a click ensures consistency though, and the band having more control over this kind of thing means they can guarantee a good show without potential issues where they can't hear each other properly. And each member can decide if they want to hear it, and maybe sometimes there's no click at all! Often the drummer is in charge of that kind of thing (you sometimes see a little control panel mounted near the kit), so there's no reason they can't play around if they want. Some bands don't want! It's just a tool, and it can help with a lot of things - even stuff as simple as making a delay pedal sound rhythmic instead of messy
The minute instruments became electric was when tech entered the picture on live performance. Let’s not kid ourselves. I don’t mind the tech at all if it’s an enhancement or even when it’s an actual part of the creativity. I only mind it when it substitutes for actual skill and talent.
Totally agree with the argument "old industry/new industry" of music. but... That's what happen when you put all your eggs in the same basket. "what if our laptop is down?" "-Don't worry man, it will never happen ! / "Yes... but what if ?" "-it will never happen, no need to ask". No plan B ! Hard to be a musician in 2022 !
Having been in bands since the 80’s, laptop band mates are the finest players and business partners I’ve ever had! They say it’s the music BUSINESS… And, invariably, the search for like minded and similarly talented players is never ending. I’m a much happier songwriter without having to babysit players who don’t have the same goals as myself…
If you can't play without a computer, you can't play. If you can play, and technology makes it even better, cool. I play guitar, not laptop or pedal board. Most 'musicians' I've met can't tune their instruments or even play a scale from beginning to end. When I hear someone with talent it's impressive. When I see someone play a video game, it's ordinary. Last guy I 'played' with, just fiddled with his phone for an hour, couldn't play one riff.
@@paveantelic7876 if it’s not for you, that’s totally ok Last band i put together took a lot of my time; writing, playing, rehearsing, booking, advertising, making merch, websites, social media, and i wanted to be compensated for my time. So to me, if this is your investment, it needs to be handled like a business, or you’ll get taken advantage, and be out a lot of money and time.
I don't think they were saying that using laptops or new technology is intrinsically bad. It's the fact that they were using them to provide backing tracks & sounds on stage that they were pretending to perform live. Call me old fashioned, but if you can't hit those notes anymore or if you're too afraid of screwing up a note, don't go on stage anymore. The fans paid good money to see you, & they deserve to see a real live show. I have nothing against streaming, or using these machines for providing sounds & effects which are obviously not happening live (like string sections in the background, sounds effects, etc), but lip-synching & pretending to play a guitar which you're not doesn't belong in rock or metal. That's what sets us apart from the pop world. What next, bands using Autotune & those criticising it being labelled as outdated dinosaurs? Were Falling In Reverse right to cancel their gigs because of missing laptops? Depends what they were using them for.
I agree. The whole point of playing live IMO is to be able to risk making a mistake. It's the thrill of playing and being able to pull it off. Or sometimes not.
Thing is, if they're trying that much to sound just like the album, with backing tracks and all, people can just stay home and listen to the album instead and save their money, given what tickets cost these days. Bands are taking in so much money now for essentially Milli Vanilli-ing their way thru a tour.
Absolutely incredible video. This one deserves all the views. Even for someone that's actually familiar with how all of this and the music industry works, it was highly entertaining and informative. I'd gladly welcome more stuff like this. 🤘🤘
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 true i agreed with the whole video until the cringey 'actually being cancelled gud if u have bad take' part! SMH all brad hall do is eat bean charge phone play guitar eat hot chip twerk and lie frfr
@@supremelordoftheuniverse5449 you say this as Bradley points to Ted Nugent who frequently made threats to a sitting US president and wrote “Jailbait”.
The annoying thing about this is that you would have to consciously try to *not* back your shit up off your laptop in these cloud enabled days. BACK IT UP.
It's not that modern musicians can't play well. It's that modern music is just far more complex, production wise. Without backing tracks, these songs are unplayable for anyone. In the modern age, production and writing are pretty much synonyms. Because of this, hundreds of tiny little things get added throughout the process, and those things usually can't be summarized into a "guitar part".
As someone who used to play in a band and has felt a bit disconnected from music (compared to when I was actually playing) for the last 10 years or so, this video has helped put some things about the music industry as a whole into a better perspective. Thanks dude. More opinion videos like this would be more than welcome if you ever feel the need to again 👍
I love how Bon Jovi regularly appears in this, considering Jon blew his voice out in 87 and 88 and has used either used studio tracks or Ritchie Sambora (oops) to get those high notes in Livin’ on a Prayer since then.
I hate Trunk. I remember on his old VH1 show that he praised Henry Rollins for not playing "that Black Flag Crap" anymore. I grew up NY/HC and that shit baffled me.
Congrats, Bradley. It's impressive how rare it it for content creators and even musicians to know the industry they're involved with so well. A little depth can't do you no harm, can it? Thanks for all the usefull (and yet funny as f**ck) info. Good one!
Not exactly rock, but I saw Heilung a couple weeks ago, some of their instruments include horns, antlers, spears, shields, human bones AND a laptop. "If you don't use the tools, the tools use you." -Valient Thorr
My band is a younger band. We’re 27-35 year olds. And we dont use any laptops, but i wouldnt give someone shit if their laptop went down, just like I wouldn’t want to take anyshit if my amp went down, or our drummer busted a skin. Hell a patch cable can fuck shit up lol.
I've been watching and enjoying your videos for a little while now, but I try not to be too hyper-spastic about subscribing to people. This was the video that made me hit the subscribe button. Your analysis was excellent and I agree with the idea that people who are trying to create music (in any genre) should be operating in the least restrictive environment that is possible. if some bands like the old-school, low-tech setup, more power to them. Those who like a more digital approach should be encouraged to experiment and do what feels right to them. The Falling in Reverse case is a cautionary tale that everyone who needs a laptop to run a show needs to be a bit of a prepper and keep multiple laptops in multiple locations. You should have as many backups as you can reasonably afford. By all means, keep the rants coming!
I think if you're gonna use a laptop, then back up, the stuff you need, to the cloud. That way if your stuff gets lost or stolen, you can still keep going on stage.
They should have done a proper backup imho. Having all your sweatie hard work on only 1 or 2 laptops is a bit careless. That said I perfectly agree with the video!
Would be interesting to see you do a similar discussion about RU-vid. Channels like yours are essentially your own tv show. In my opinion this correlates very closely to your opinion of the music industry and the “ways of the old guard.” You made your own show without having to be signed to some network, you own the content and have built your platform yourself, which is pretty awesome.
This was a great video. Great points made. While I can appreciate where the rock/metal bands started, it would be nice for the genre to keep moving forward. I was at Aftershock last weekend, and one of the complaints from a couple of the bands (stated on stage) was that it was really hot outside and some of their laptop(s) were malfunctioning. It was a bummer because there were a couple pauses here and there, BUT the shows went on and the bands played great some great sets! I understand how now, laptops are something that’s necessary with all the extras, especially with the added effects on the jumbo screens to go along with the band while they are playing. Again, great video, thanks for sharing.
All those old metal stars wouldn't get on stage if they lost their distortion pedals, and Jazz/Blues musicians could laugh at them for depending on technology to perform. So yes, it IS and "old man yells at a cloud" situation. Music needs to evolve and get more complex, and I'm sure these young guys would not want to give a bad show, so it was pretty OK to cancel some concerts for the time being.
Ive been having this thought recently and something you said in this video kinda brought it back. Metallica are objectively the biggest band in the world right now, so once they retire, what’s next? Who’s gonna take their place as the new “leaders” I guess. Supporting and embracing new bands, new tech, and new talent is gonna help this genre really grow and develop rather than just ignoring it and looking to the past. The future of rock and metal is utterly dependent on looking forward and asking “what do we do next”.
I’m also wondering who the biggest band might be in the years after Metallica’s retirement. Here’s a few I think have a fair shot: Pearl Jam Ghost Unknown Mortal Orchestra That last one is probably a lot less likely than the other two, but this year I’ve just met more and more people who listen to them.
some of the reason we might not ever get another Metallica level rock band is the same reasons we don't have huge superstar pop artists and divas like Michael Jackson is from the way music is a little decentralized....instead of huge platforms like radio or MTV these days there's way more small platforms and subgenres and underground niches that it feels like music superstardom itself is dying out
I went to see Marillion last week (yeah, not exactly Bradley's genre but bear with me). The keyboard player runs everything on his rig from a laptop, pretty much all his sounds are VSTs, all the samples and effects come from it, he runs all the click tracks, and does all the samples that the bass player triggers off pedals as well. it takes weeks of programming work before a tour to get it all set up. Losing this would be catastrophic. Oh and he's been in the band for 40 years... So it's not just new bands that use the tech.
the bigger question is, couldn't you save the full setup infinitely (even in a cloud) and literally use it on any feasible laptop (meaning having enough power on it to run the DAW) So losing a laptop is an inconvenience you get around by getting a new one and setting it up? I have all my VST and DAW settings saved at two places and use them on my Laptop and my home PC all the time...
I'm sure there was stuff that older musicians were complaining about when metal first started, about how they shouldn't need something or another that the REAL musicians didn't need (probably like distortion or dark lyrics or some weird shit), and I'm sure it's happened ever since and will continue to happen
This happens in so many areas of knowledge and arts. So many people tend to refuse some types of evolution just by having fear of change or the feeling that something they like will end
Y'all think the classic composers had to deal with this kind of thing? Like were people in the 1700s saying stuff like "real music doesn't need 100 instruments in an orchestra to sound good, all you really need is a harpsichord" lol
@@cotopaximusic They absolutely did. These feuds weren't typically between composers of different genres during this time (if we're talking explicitly about the cannon of western art music like renaissance, baroque, classical, and romantic) due to the amount of time between the formation of these genres (for example there are ~170 years between the beginning of the baroque era and the beginning of the classical era.) There absolutely has always been, however, musical elitism via the audience privy to multiple genres of music. For example those who were lucky enough to be alive during the transition of the classical to the romantic era (the classical era ending around ~1820 and the romantic era starting in ~1800) it was a relatively common complaint amongst listeners that Romantic era music lacked structure and relied to much on singular melody in comparison to Classical era music. There's a really interesting (and honestly kinda funny imo) piece by German philosopher Theodor Adorno where he complains that modern music lacks intelligence because of the invention of choruses and repetitive musical phrasing. If we zoom out and focus on music in general there were always implications that music in the western art music genres was better than folk musics being played in whatever country they were being composed in. This comes mostly from the fact that these composers (think of big name composers like vivaldi mozart, beethoven, wagner, etc) were typically employed by the institutions (affluent families, the church, or in some cases the royal families of their respective countries) which were looked to for indication of what was and what was not considered proper/high art. I don't think it is too big of a stretch to say that as soon as we look to anyone as a taste-maker or an authority on art forms there's almost always going to be some amount of elitism about what constitutes good and bad versions of the art form based on that persons own paradigm and education on said art form. Music is no different. Knowing these histories really helps you realize how silly music elitism is :p
"I'm going to do a bit of a serious video here" **proceeds with very well articulated serious video but full of funny, witty footage and references to make us still chuckle like always** Beanley you are a rare talent! 👏🤘 Totally agree with you. Musicians/bands are ARTISTS and they're entitled to produce their art using whatever technologies they wish. It's also why I detest "fans" who bad-mouth an artist for trying something different.. if you don't have anything nice to say, keep ya mouth shut.
The real failure was not having a Plan B. Touring guitarists (or at least their roadies) will haul backup heads in case their amp poops a tube, seems like it would be less effort to sling a *backup laptop* if your whole show hinges on having one Being able to perform raw in case the backup laptop goes down is always a plus One of the best live sets I've ever seen was a local band whose bassist's amp blew up halfway through their opening song. This ruled out all of their material, so they winged it, played random campfire tunes and turned it into a hilarious crowd singalong. The Lion Sleeps Tonight was lit
I think it's totally cool to use technology to improve on a live show and / or use it to implement things you put on the album in the studio but could not execute live, although i think this should be way more transparent because in the same way as musicians on social media make it look like an easy thing to be a total virtuoso seeing only "perfect" live shows probably shapes expectations of young musicians in the same way. So while I understand that as an artist you want to give your best show it also propagates unachievable levels of perfection... i wish this would be communicated by more artists (as you made a video on that topic yourself). Further I think it is a bit sad for fans that a show is cancelled completely because of missing technology. I mean, of course the live show would have had to be completely improvised but i think artists would be able to make it an enjoyable time anyways, but maybe thats just me and in reality it would damage their image. Personally (coming from classical and music and some jazz on accoustic instruments) I don't mind musicians and bands having a bad day or especially improvising and trying to make the best out of the given circumstances especially since having to improvise is way more common on small local venues anyways. But then again I usually do not go to a live show to hear a "perfect" copy of the track on an album, because if I just want to enjoy the music by listening I guess in 90% of cases you are better of listening at home on a decent stereo or headphones. TLDR; I find it sad that artists think they have to be their perfect studio versions live on stage, as it just is an unreasonable expectation and by trying to fulfill this actually furthers the impressions of fans that this is how music is done naturally (which most of the time is just not the case)
I think it's more that these are bands that make the production a huge part of their performance, it's all carefully constructed and choreographed so they can put on a particular kind of show. You don't have to like it personally, but it's A Different Thing compared to a band that just plugs in their amps and can bang out their setlist in a garage (also cool obv) And that's the show they've rehearsed, so it's not really unreasonable that they might have to cancel if some part of their production, their gear, their "crew" has gone missing and torn a hole in the show they've been working on, y'know? (Also a thing more "traditional" bands have done when their tours ran into issues, just not involving laptops.) It definitely sucks for the fans, but I bet it sucks even more for the band if they've lost all their work, on top of not being able to tour and eating the costs
One of the most memorable shows I saw was the first time I saw Skinny Puppy on tour for the Too Dark Park tour. They make industrial music with sequencers, heavily processed/distorted vocals and tons of sampling. During the first song I was thinking to myself 'wow, this is amazing but if the singer is lip syncing to a backing track I'll never know' and then about a minute later the singer flubbed a lyric. Never had a mistake made me so happy lol There was live drumming and some synth was played live, the singer was messing with effects and synths and giving a hell of a performance, which some (me included) would say was theatrical, even though it was all sequenced, all programmed and all synchronized. Still, it was live and alive, and it rocked more than a lot of punk and metal shows I've seen!
Gen X guy here, and I have to say I do agree. Those days are gone and will not repeat unless we lose the internet globally. I do have to say though if you’re playing professionally, you need to have a plan B. People payed you $ and left the comfort of their homes to see a badass live show!
This is so spot on. I'm sure the technology truly scares them because it is beyond comprehension to them. You combine skill with carefully (and skillfully) crafted automation and you can be an impressive musician while putting on a mind bending show at the same time. You have the ability to perfectly sync up music with lighting and video effects too. As a musician and a tech nerd, this is an amazing time to be alive
Cancelling shows because of laptops lost is idiotic and completely disrespectful for the audience that bought the tickets, so what if they can't play the songs as they wanted, this is about entertainment, not perfectionism, it's egocentrical for them, they deserve every bashing
This reminds me of the incident with a Korean airline where the auto-landing system failed and the crew was unable to land manually, leading to a crash. It highlights the difference between using technology to improve performance and becoming so dependent on it that basic skills are lost.
I think the OG concept here is "The show must go on." You are, ultimately, a performer. Sure, you can cancel shows when issues arise but if the issue is something you can work around, do so. Laptop gone? Unless the band is something akin to Kraftwerk, where no tech=no dice, just get up there and play. If you can't play without all the tech, practice without it. Work up the tunes sans the backing tracks and sequenced stuff. Unplugged+ if you will. It'll improve your playing when you have the tech there. I am all for moving the genre forward with new ideas but, ultimately, you are an enertainer. To entertain all you really need is an audience. The rest is up to you.
To be fair they (old bands) forgot to mention their amps not “amping” like they were supposed to or their gear/gear van getting stolen all the damn time. Equipment not working and having to cancel shows is nothing new
@@Juan-rd5jf having your whole van's worth of equipment stolen is a bit different to losing one little black box that your whole show relied on Any band (old or new) touring with any kind of budget hauls backup amps, which makes me wonder why one wouldn't haul a backup laptop?
I feel like there's shades of grey to all this. Without getting into extremes, I kind of agree that using backing tracks and automation should and can be an evolution in how bands perform these days. For example Devin Townsend; there's no way that shit's happening without some leverage. Then again there usually is the human element of him singing his main parts authentically. And that's really the draw. Another example: I would kinda be bummed out if Deep Purple used backing tracks for their main vocals. Saw them many years ago and Ian Gillan didn't land anywhere near the right notes for those high screams... And that's okay! The show was still good as hell and I'd rather see them not fully make it than fake it. So in both sides of the argument, I don't think there should be an absolute. When it comes to cats like Axl Rose and Vince Neil just sounding horrible for the whole gig... Well, u can have those... 😂 I wouldn't pay for it either way
I would argue that someone like Devin Townsend and band would be able to put together a show the old fashioned way without much drama - but not with a few hours notice as in this case. The band probably wouldn't be happy putting out a 'soundcheck' quality performance to be recorded and put online. Something as simple as setting up new guitar patches and amps the old way would require hours of preparation, would it not? I think he uses Axe-Fx so I assume it's all controlled centrally.
@@cwang6951 Dunno about the guitar setup part. I was referring to the multilayered choirs and other pre-recorded stuff... I bet he would put up some kind of patched up show though. Maybe acoustic. :)
@@sethbrundle6506 Agreed, it would be a totally different show. I saw his solo acoustic tour in Australia, whilst it was backed by a soundboard type device his raw talent and charisma entertained the masses! Even with strapping they played to tracks but I don't think I'd enjoy the show any less if they did away with it.
Devin has done fully acoustic shows and I have seen him compensate for electronic fuckery live pretty well. The issue for me is that a live show is supposed to be live, not just a playback of a track. If I wanted to hear the studio version of a song I would go to spotify. Competent musicians should be able to make music, if they cant do a show without electronics they are not worthy of the job title. You adapt, improvise, rework your material... there are infinite ways to make songs work without 'key' elements, it just takes a bit of creativity on the part of the musicians. Zappa would often rewrite songs on the tourbus on the way to gigs and the musicians would learn them during soundcheck, its not that hard. As much as I respect Brad I think most of this video is just bashing old people for being old and dismissing their criticisms of lack of musical ability for them just not liking new things. If the new thing sucks, it sucks. Just because it is different doesn't mean its positive progress
I hate laptops for a whole different reason. I just like knowing that everything I hear is coming from right there on the stage and seeing how the musicians communicate with eachother on stage to hold the song together. And also, it's more interesting to hear and see a version that's slightly different, if I wanted to hear it like the way it is on the record I'd just stay home and listen to the record.
Yeah not entirely sure your rant has helped change my opinion. I've always taken the approach of, it's ok to use them, but you should also maintain the ability to adapt if something goes wrong, or more specifically to this story, Falling in Reverse can use them and I won't judge them, but I will judge them when their entire show has to be cancelled because there was a problem with the backing track. It's like Tony Starks quote to Spider-man in Spider-man Homecoming. If you are nothing without the suit, then you don't deserve to have it. If a band cannot play without a backing track, then they shouldn't be performing at all. It should be a tool, not a lifeline. And if they use it as a lifeline then they aren't really a band. The backing track isn't a tool for the band any more, the band is a tool for the backing track, because suddenly, the backing track holds all the power. And I have to say, if I was a Falling in Reverse fan, and I had paid for tickets to see them, only to have them cancel because they lost a laptop, i'd be fuming. They haven't lost their instruments. They haven't lost the ability to play. The venue hasn't been rendered unusable. They have ALL the ingredients to perform their set. And again, I understand the need to use a backing track. To make it easier to perform and to get a better sound, but it they have to cancel all together, it just tells me that they sound crap without it and it's too difficult to play without it. Either way, I'd have a lot more respect for them trying and failing than admitting that they are so reliant on their backing tracks that they may as well be playing guitar hero.
I get the sentiment but those old f&cks are right. If your gonna make music that relies so heavily on computer, that’s ok, but at least have the foresight to know if something goes wrong, have a backup plan. In the past, you would hire someone to help fill in if another member that couldn’t do the gig. Fast forward to today, if the computer you rely heavily on for your production, then make sure you have a fucking backup for it.
Mate, this was straight fire. None of that old guard seem to appreciate just how much they were part of a massive music industry machine that coddled them and let them have all the coke and blow jobs they could handle as long as they put an album out every year. I look at the work modern bands have to put into their socials by themselves and its utter madness. You have to not only be good at music these days, but video, social media management, business, logistics and some much more. Great video
As a sound tech 47 years old. Ive found myself in gate keeper mode and try to call myself on it. But i got to wonder what the reason was. The entire support system ofmodern Sound and stage reinforcement is all computers. Digital desks, waves, iPads, PC's. I don't know this particular band or how much they get paid.This would give me an idea of the venues they play for example if it was their monitor rig, that would be an odd reason. Any decent venue should be able to accommodate as the show must go on. But if they are mission critical to the show i guess i could see that. The extent of their need for personal laptops. Yadda yadda.. Carry USB sticks, external HD And maybe include laptops in the Stage Rider.
I disagree. If you can't perform your music, you shouldn't be a performer. Not so much the laptop stuff, though I can't imagine not being able to play at least something recognizable with actual instruments if you're any kind of rock/metal band.
Thank you, I appreciate the detailed explanation since I’m in the demographic of “old codger” now. I don’t know why so many people stop listening to anything new when they get older, because they miss out on the opportunity to find music that speaks directly to their soul. And why would anything think that music should remain archaic and not take advantage of new technology as it becomes available? It doesn’t make anyone less talented or creative.
As an old guy I couldn't agree more. I listen to anything good that I can. Subjective yes I know. Sure classic rock is fantastic, but so is finding that new song from a new band that makes you feel the way you did like the first time you heard the classic stuff.
Theres actually a couple theories on why people stop listening to newer music when they get older, its something we look at in the study of music and especially music and behavior. In a very boiled down list theres: - less time to listen to or seek out new music as one gets older dur to having increased responsibilities (usually starting mid 20s) - not understanding how newer music finding technology works. For example you might have discovered new music on the radio or TV back in the day, what do people use now, if you were using the internet how would you search for new music?) - new neural pathways being harder to form meaning developing new tastes is also harder. You brain really stops doing all its growth in your mid 20s (usually around 25 years old) meaning that making new neural pathways is harder than when it was still growing and taking in information when you were younger. If you've ever heard that its hard to learn a language after 14 years old, it happens for similar reasons. - feeling alienated by new music being too different from what you were used to. People get so stuck in wanting to hear something familiar because of the comfort/memories they often tend to stop listening to new stuff for periods of time and then when they tune back into what is going on in the new music front that they just become overwhelmed and retreat back into old habits - the phenomenon of an aire of superiority stemming from nostalgia or something i like to call "kids these days" syndrome. due to the nature of human memory we tend to latch onto things that were familiar to us while we were young and in our teen years while leaving out a lot of negative aspects of those things. The older we are the more we tend to idealize this nostalgic idea of the past meaning that it takes on this shiny veneer of pseudo perfection whereas engaging in new media does not have nostalgia working for it. This lack of nostalgia makes it harder to engage in new art forms. Keep in mind that these are all theories and like in any field of academia theres also people who don't think this phenomenon happens at all so none of them could be right or all of them could be right in different ways because its a hard thing to try and prove definitely but they all have convincing aspects to them! I Hope I helped explain it a bit for you!
@@loudlady2 Thanks so much! This was really interesting to me, and I appreciate that you took the time to explain in detail. Could you recommend any sources so I could learn a bit more on this subject? It is an interesting subject to me because my partner and I are so different when it comes to music preferences. He definitely falls into the category of preferring music from his youth and only has a handful of current bands that he will listen to - and those are all artists I suggested to him. I listen to everything and am always on the lookout for new music to enjoy. I think his preferences stem from nostalgia and good memories from high school/college more than any of the other reasons you gave, but it makes me curious why I’m not the same. I’d like to learn more about the subject because it will probably tell me a lot about myself and my partner. Thank you again for the information.
