Hey RJ...great vid & great playing. My detuned H-3000 sound was actually delay, not chorus. In my quest to try to cop the Edge's detuned delays I stumbled on the Micropitchshift patch in the 3000. I found that increasing the left and right "p delay" to normal delay times (for example left 300 ms and right 600ms) and adding a bunch of feedback I could get a lovely, Edge-like detuned delay...THAT became "my sound" and I preceded to use it on every single record that I played on! LOL Interesting side note: The micropitchshift patch on my H-3000 DSE had this kind of grainier texture that I couldn't get out of the Eclipse - it was too clean. These days I can get everything I need out of pedals but I still have the 3000 at the ready if I need "that sound". best, MT
I can't believe I'm just seeing this comment - Michael it's truly an honor, I'm such a big fan. Thank you so much for watching and the detailed insight.
@Michael Thompson, I remember watching a video that Pete Thorn & Tim Pierce did at your place where you mentioned exactly that and the whole E-Bow with the vibrato pedal works. Still the only video from both of them that I watched regularly for a dose of inspiration.
The chorus sound on Purple Rain was much simpler than this. Non AOR sounds this reminds me of is early King’s X and Whitesnake (depending on your definition of AOR 😉)
AOR was not corporate rock. It was deep cuts, full length tracks, the antithesis of 80s top 40 which is what you're referencing here. Love the channel, Keep it up!
AOR was corporate rock, but with album cuts approved in addition to singles for airplay. It gave illusion of more freedom but it was still tightly controlled by playlists via the station conglomerates.
Come to think of it, aor was a misnomer. The bands dismissed as AOR usually weren’t on those stations. Deep cuts of Journey and Foreigner didn’t show up…
The Fixx’s guitarist Jamie West-Oram is one of the best practitioners of this style of squashed stereo-chorused 80s tone…Stand or Fall, Saved By Zero, One Thing Leads to Another…great guitar parts and those songs all stand up today as well as ever!
West-Oram many years later turned up on the Brian Eno album Nerve Net and played beautifully on the song "Ali Click." You should check it out if you're a fan
I met , hung out with and jammed with Robbie , he told me that was his strat with EMGs into a Boss Ce 2 chorus into two old fender supers (for stereo ) and used the spring reverb from the amps . Super nice guy
@@hrosemd It is indeed! Written by Neil Finn--in a genuinely crowded house, of all places--recollecting Lennon/McCartney's Across the Universe line, "Like endless rain into a paper cup," as Finn tells it. ^5
"Don't Dream It's Over" is definitely emblematic of the 80s, but for me it's one of the few that transcends. Maybe because it leans harder into this vibe than most? Verges on an almost Brian Setzer kind of thing, rather than the more sparkly, hyper-processed RIchard Marx area. (Is "Richard Marxist" a thing?)
Alex Lifeson was the one that truly made me love that tone, though it was Prince who first planted the seed on Purple Rain. Of course a Dimension C will also get you in the ballpark as well. You forgot to mention the active EMG's. That guitar you're using appears to be equipped with them, and will also be a factor in the tone.
I didn't know they used active pickups in this type of music. A normal Strat with the middle and bridge pickup together is really really close to the sound as well in my opinion. The most 80's tone in my book.
@@Remu- Yeah in the Signature guitars he played they were loaded with EMG's, if I'm not mistaken. That's the only way, he felt, he could cut through the dense Keyboard mix.
Yeah, Alex's "Mystic Rhythms" guitar timbre has _them airy jangles_ like no other, except perhaps some Phil Manzenera stuff came close to that. Vini Reilly of _The Duritti Column_ was another god of '80s clean/vintage-y chorus timbre, well before the shoegazers hit.
Thanks for pointing out Jamie West-Oram. He truly deserves more praise, attention and recognition than he has gotten. He is an amazing guitar player. I also love The Edge, for those same reasons. Amazingly distinctive and immediately recognizable sound and style. They actually are under-rated guitar players, in that they helped develop and pioneer that amazing 80's Digital Delay / Heavily Chorused British tone, sound and style that unfortunately, barely caught on and lived beyond the 80's. Guitar players claim they do not try to integrate it because it is such a "dated" sound. Yet, I disagree with that assertion. I play some guitar. And, playing with / against a delay and heavily chorused guitar effect is actually somewhat difficult and takes time to learn and get used to playing. It requires exceptional skill and talent to take those extra steps in playing / sound creation. I would argue it is not so "dated" as it is a challenge for too many guitarists to tackle. Between Synthesizers, Pop Music and Guitar Sounds / style, the 80's was a most amazing decade. It was a culmination of so many great things coming from the 1950's - 1970's in Rock and Roll / Music and Sound Engineering / Recording. It was almost a climax or apex from those preceding decades. We got the best of the best. Most everything seems to be on decline from that decade, or trying to copy things from that decade, which often fails miserably in its attempt. But, no doubt, some of the best and most influential guitar players came from that era (mid to late 70's - 80's). Clapton and Hendrix were also great, for example. But, they are who were primary influences on these great guitar players you mention / are referring too, for example.
@@axisgarret2516 A hidden gem of a unique guitarist of the 80's: Geordie Walker from Killing Joke. They've gone through a crazy variety of phases and sounds through their career as a band, but for sake of our conversation, their stuff from the latter half of the 80's shows it greatly (Night Time, Brighter than a Thousand Suns, etc.). Actually, Geordie kept a lot of those sounds from the 80's, like the stereo modulation and delays, then tweaked and changed it to fit newer music later on, even when they got into heavier metal and alternative, but it doesn't sound out of place or dated in the slightest!
@@BeefNEggs057 because at some point a lot of folks (myself included) want to document songs we’ve written & let others hear them. For that you have to record them & learning to use a DAW & record is just as important as learning to play. When people hear my music I want the playing & the production to be the best they can be. Chill out grandpa.
On a session once, the great drummer John JR Robinson told me he started showing up to sessions and they would want some drum sound from some other record he had played on. It became frustrating. Obviously the miking and engineering of the basic tracks which may or may not be mixed by the same engineer would make that request almost impossible to achieve. So when the Dynachord sampler showed up in the 80s, he got 2 of them and sampled every drum sound from a few of his popular original sessions. He would show up to sessions with the Dynachords and a huge case full of snares. If he were asked for let's say that Steve Winwood 'Higher Love' sound, he would pretend to choose a particular snare, let the engineer mic it, then send the signal from the Dynachord he was triggering. He said they almost always ended up using the sample!!
Nailed it perfectly!, another BIG factor contributing to that ultra-clean tone is the use of EMG active pickups like the ones you used in the video but didn't mentioned, the set of 89/SA/SA was as classic as the effects used too!
My fave 80's guy is DEF Andy Summers (Police!!!)...guy had fabulous chords and phrasing...he didn't use a ton of dirty tones...just loved his chorus/flanger/reverb all at once ...killer player IMO.
I love 80's tone. I love chorus effects. This is one your best videos so far. David Gilmour sounded awesome in the 1980's "Delicate Sound Of Thunder" era. I would love to hear what it sounds like if you add some univibe into your "rack" mix. Please do more videos like this one.
I think (same age group as R.J.) that we kind of ignore stuff that's all over the place and ubiquitous growing up. Early on as a metalhead, all that stuff was "gay" (not saying that in a modern context, just what we used to say back then and I wouldn't use the term today) and lame and "poser". But being a musician and getting into more and more stuff, sometimes we go back and listen to this stuff and hear/see more things than we used to. I've been rocking Foreigner, some Journey, Dare, Fortune, Alien, Styx, and all sorts of stuff I didn't used to like lately (well Liked Styx for quite longer but the rest no). I just can't get enough of that atmosphere and the keyboards and all that. The wussy love lyrics are a blessing and a curse though, since sometimes if I'm dating someone they're ok but otherwise eww lol
Crazy, those rockman units are what Def Leppard used for all guitar tracks on the Hysteria album. I really want a company to come along and make a hardware clone of the old Rockmans (the new ones are a joke, don't sound good, and are beyond noisy).
Also the ART SGX and SGE rack units had a (cheap) sound like that, which could not be gotten away _from._ Though at the time being all I could afford to 'splurge' on, it ended up feeling like more of a prison than a destination, heh.
Best two versions of the 80s guitar tone: Clean: Bryan Adams: Run To You Crunch/ Hi-gain: Chriss Oliva-Savatage: Hall Of The Mountain King Both instantly recognizable and glorious.
When Brian Adams solos the rhythm guitar part at the end, it sounds incredible. It’s the only time that four chords with a clean tone makes you want to drive faster.
I was totally fascinated in the 80's with the guitar sound of the pop music as I was learning guitar. The first pedal I ever bought was a Boss Chorus, that was to mimic Madonna's Open Your Heart. Good job RJ.
As a kid, I heard this sound from a Roland Jazz Chorus 120. There was that multi-chorus pedal that needed a bit more compression to get that punchy sound Lukather had. Nice. Thanks for this great video.
I saw Toto back in the 80's, Luke was on fire. I remember he had Mesa Boogie's and a rack so enormous it had it's own spot light !! I think they introduced it at the end of the show ha ha ha. This was before he played his Music Man's. He was playing his Valley Arts guitars. I remember i wanted that tone so bad but couldn't afford it.
When I was a kid (back in the ‘80’s) this was just known as the “clean tone” 😂 But I’ve never hated it. I was very fortunate that I got to sit on the control room floor and watch some of the masters of that era (Steve Farris, George Terry, Reb Beach, Tim Cansfield, Alan Kendall, Midge Ure, Eric Clapton, etc.). I have to pinch myself when I think back to those days...Your analysis and reproduction of this tone is excellent bro ! Keep it up R.J. 👍🏻👍🏻 🙏🏻
in my humble opinion, the first one was Andy Summers with comp and phaser/chorus pedal and a digital rack delay. Then, Allan Murphy with diferents rack units.
RJ, I think one thing that widely drove this '80s guitar sound to be widely used in studios, A) those chorus-type effects were relatively new and brought an interesting spatial dimension (IF used properly), and B) they were clean-sounding and easy to mix and blend - so engineers loved them. But while someone like Andy Summers was a genius at using them, others just made cheesy songs with them.
One of my favorite guitarists, and guitar tones, is Johnny Marr. All you need is a Boss GT-100; Marr even used one for a few years (search for the video), and he may still be using it. I can also get Cure tones with my GT-100; another one of my favorites for guitar tones. The GT-100 can do more than 80's tones, but it does the '80s tones very well. IMO. I was there in the 80s, and had a refrigerator rack built around my ADA rig.
played in a cover band and we decided to do an 80's night with my singers students each taking a different song. So I basically had to figure this out on my own...luckily I had all the pedals I needed to get in the ball park. I remember the 1st song was Time after Time by Cyndi Lauper. Then the next one was Don't You Forget About Me....Good stuff! Had a lot of fun learning and playing the songs and the kids really giving it their all for songs way before their time.
Like you, I'm in my mid '40s and am catching up with all the great music that I missed in my youth... because it was dad rock-y. I'm now knee deep in Toto, Mr. Mister, Journey, Chicago, Pages and all that good stuff. I too used to HATE that sound... but I'm now running a compressor, stereo chorus and circular delay (all analog BTW) and I'm LOVIN' IT! I haven't gone W/D/W (yet), but stereo is a wonderful thing... and I will probably break my all-analog ethos soon - as I need a good hall reverb ;)
Yep, the Stereo Chorus was and still is the big part of 80's New Wave (or Retro wave/ Synth Wave as people call it). Not only for guitars, back in the day we used to put synths through external Stereo Chorus pedals or rack fx with pretty awesome results. I write and record commercially licensed music as a composer (under performance rights organization, BMI, Inc) and if I am writing in any 80's New Wave / pop genres, I use a Fender Telecaster and Stereo Chorus Fx all the time. I also recommend the Flanger Pedal Fx (Listen to some of the band: "The Cure" albums from the 80s, their sound is all around Flanger Fx) Also Phase / Phasor pedal if you want late 70's/early 80's Funk / Pop / New Wave sounds. Have a great weekend.. stay safe out there.
2 года назад
Thanks for this breakdown! What type of gear would you recommend nowadays, in order to get a sound like RIchard Marx, Steve Lukather, Dan Huff, Etc ...
Man, I’m glad it wasn’t just me who went through this. I hated that sound, now, it’s the mainstay of my clean tone. Back then, I was obsessed with Nuno Bettencourt’s tone and Ty Tabor’s tone. Now, I’m using a lot less gain and more of a retro tone.
Oddly enough, though, some of the stuff our friend was planning here reminded me of Ty Tabor's clean sound in tracks like "Summerland". But I hear what you're saying (you're talking about his dirty guitar sound).
My feeling towards that tone is that it's another tool in the toolbox. If it fits within a song then it's useful. At least I think that's how I feel about it. 😄 You did an excellent job getting the tone. It sounds amazing!
That sure is! I really prefer that to metal or hard rock. Depending on the mood. Personally, I have made a lot of effort re-create the 80s guitar sound because it is the very esseence 80s.
You can get that 80s chorus sound in 10 seconds with the Arion SCH-1 stereo chorus pedal from the 80s. Try it. It's fabulous. Add a delay and there you go. Two floor pedals. Been doing it since 1988 👍. Great video with some lovely tones.
Thanks RJ. I never get tired of hearing Michael Thompson's clean strat sound. Glad that he chimed in below! That glassy shimmering strat tone works well when blending acoustic guitars, pianos, violins etc... it's a classic sound for quality rock, pop and ballads.
I feel that that sound was heard in new wave as well - the Police, the Damned, someone already mentioned Crowded House. I love that tone, but never figured out how to achieve it other than it revolved around the 2 or 4 positions on a strat (also previously mentioned). Great video. Just recently subscribed. Not regretting it at all. Looking forward to more of these types of videos. It's like a detective series - solving that tone. Take care and God bless.
I learned how to make this sound from Jamie West-Oram of the Fixx and Andy Summers of the Police back in the day. The stompbox formula you need is a cranked compressor, a modulation effect, and a delay. I tend to use am mxr custom compressor + hartman flanger (rather than chorus) to make it because it is a vintage electro mistress clone, which is what Andy Summers used. I skip the EQ and all the bullshit. Three stompboxes is all you need to do it on stage: a good compressor, flanger (or chorus), and delay.
The Police actually helped invent that sound. Rush listened to the Police and Lifeson wanted to ape it, so he started to culminating in his usage of the famous/infamous Gallien Krueger 250ml amp.
Such an iconic sound, you did really well with it. I have grown to appreciate the 80's sound as I have aged and through session guitar players like Lukather and Tim Pierce. Awesome job!
I actually chased this tone along time ago with the Boss pedals. Digital Delay, Stereo Chorus, EVH Phase 90 & Volume Pedal. No EQ or Compressor. Two Combo Amps, wet is a Guitar Amp & dry is a Bass Amp. As an amateur, I'm happy.
That was brilliant R.J 🎸👍 Made me want to watch my old Steve Lukather Starlicks video where he explains his stereo rig from the 80’s where he talks about putting ‘Grease’ on his guitar tone !
R.J. Ronquillo 🤣 Hey ..thanks R.J ..that’s great, thanks for the link, just watched it....you obviously know all about the ‘grease’ 👊🎸 Just found your channel. I love old 80’s rack stuff. I have a system in my studio I put together for nostalgic reasons. I have a Marshall JMP 1 for overdrive , distortion, preamp stuff. The warmth is great and it has some mojo when you need to take a break from the DAW plugins. Anyway, thank you for your channel. I’ve subscribed and will be following from across the pond. All the best buddy. Keep up your great content. Rich United Kingdom 🇬🇧🎸👌
final thought on the eighties....lets just forget about them......at least most of the music.....i won't miss it....;-) but thanks for your fantastic effort to go in deep and "unearth" all the gory details how its "music" was made..... just on a side note...at the beginning of the eighties i sold my (!!) black gibson les paul custom to some lucky fellow because we needed the money and had just bought our first home......;-((
Absolutely loved this video, will definitely watch again . Big fan of Graydon, lukather,Landau ,Jackson Jr etc loved also the direct sound you did like Michael Thompson . Fantastic
Ha ha, I played in the 80's and you HAD to have that. Then in the 90s I needed it in country. I use rack effects but I cant quite get the same thing with plug-ins. I think what I get in the DAW is much more subtle and I frankly like it more because it does NOT sound like the 80s. EDIT: You nailed it!
As an 80s engineer & player let me just add a couple pieces of rack gear in heavy use. One was called a Panscan it offered a ton of panning options from auto sweep to triggered to envelop control. My no1 gtr effects unit was a TC Electronics 2290 Delay that offered massive stereo fx! All Lexicon reverbs/processors were good. 224, 224x, 480xl, PCM70, ... and the two AMS units were expensive MUST HAVES! DMX DELAY SAMPLER & RMX REVERB.
Great video. I love the attention to detail. But... the very first thing you should have mentioned - the first - is to use the “out of phase” bridge and middle pickup settings on a Strat. Once you do this 3/4 of the sound is there. Ad some stereo chorus and reverb and doodly doot. The rest is just window dressing for this particular sound.
Exactly - I got goosebumps from what RJ played (especially that volume pedal twist - wow) but I think Strat pickup positions 2 & 4 would have taken it into the stratosphere
I completely identify with this. Having grown up in the same era, I discounted this 'sound' for not having any 'balls'. I think you have to look at post punk for the origins of this sound at the beginning of the 80's. These players were rejecting everything that came before them - blues based soloing, distortion, punk barre chords, machismo - and trying to define a new direction. For me, Johnny Marr epitomizes this. Worth a watch to start you down the rabbit hole. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KWxfef--BVg.html
Nice video. The "double" effect is a classic, that very short, one repetition 20ms delay. It was present in various multi-effects in early 90's. The double is present in the Digital Metalizer boss pedal (it also has a chorus for that "detuned" effect). Today I use it a lot using a boss dd-5.
Loved that tone, and at the same time, I would ALWAYS hear that in every cover band here in the Philippines. It's like a default patch that we have here. :D Some of the songs I use this tone for: Another Day - Dream Theater All This Time - Tiffany Never Say Goodbye - Bon Jovi
The Rockman by Tom Sholtz is where this tone comes from. Everybody wanted the Rockman in the 80s....it was stereo. Gallien Kruger copied it but Rockman was the epitome of this tone. I still have the rackmount Rockman.
@@LightWingStudios ????what are you talking about??? My Rockman has everything...chorus, reverb, compression, 2 distortion channels, 2 clean channels....all stereo..... It sounds exactly like the samples in this video.
If you go watch Lukather’s 1985 “Star Licks” video (it’s on RU-vid), he shows this Bradshaw rig, and it is almost exactly what’s in this video. Except he’s using three Mesa/Boogie heads…a Mark IIC+, basically as a preamp, and two Mark III 180 W Colosseum heads as stereo outputs. The whole thing had to cost at least $10,000, even back then.
Nailed it. Now I know why it was so hard to get that “LA”, highly produced sound. There was simply more going on than I knew about. It also explains why it was the era of presets, midi switching and preamp overdrive.
Alex Lifeson did this tone some justice- and so did Satriani- Circles and Lords of Chaos both had this sound- but a little different. He runs 2 delays into one another- the first at around 400ms and the second at around 600ms and when he dumps the short into the long, he gets this crazy delay/reverb sound- really cool effect. Before the delays he runs a compressor, eq, and chorus pedal - in that order. So really, he's doing exactly the same thing- he's just using pedals to do it- he's compressing the sound, EQing it to get all the frequencies back, then hitting a chorus, then dumping the delays into one another to get the delay and reverb sound. Works great for a live setting.
You and I are pretty close in age - I'm 42 and started playing guitar at age 6. I always liked pop, and only in the last 10 years or so have I found a great appreciation for pop/pop-rock music of the 80s. These days, I've traded in a lot of my playing time away from Van Halen and Hair Metal to the catchy pop/jazz/funk/R&B tunes of the decade. I'm finding a lot of new joy in playing these types of music.
7:57 This is exactly correct. Not only that, Paul Jackson (Jr), Steve Lukather, and Mike Landau would get hired for a certain type of guitar sound in the 80s. The rest of us had to be able to be a poor man's version of those 3 guys to work, so Dann Huff, Michael Thompson, Steve Farris, and those of us following in the wake had to have as powerful a rack as well. It also forced the guys in front of Luke like Lee Ritenour, Jay Graydon, Dean Parks and them to do it if they wanted to keep working in the studios. I remember going to auditions in LA in the 80s where they wouldn't even listen to you if you didn't have a huge rack!!
Great video! Do you think you can recreate this sound on, say, an HX Stomp, or a Kemper? I’d really be interested to use that sound in a live environment! - Shin from Japan
I wandered into this 3 years later... Brilliant video! So informative and yeah, absolutely killer tone! Thanks for taking the time to post. (Full transparency; I am an old fart who grew up in the ‘80s and still love all of that stuff) .
Man, one of you’re best vids. Thanks for you’re input into creating the best ear candy sound ever. Still gets me when I hear that lush sound. No one did it better than Landau. Huff a close second and then Thompson. That’s the holy trinity of the studio sound. You nailed it. Pickups had everything to do with the sound as well. But that’s a completely different video. Thanks man for all you do.
Eventide H-3000, Roland Dimension D and Lexicon PCM 42 are three ways to go about this single coil strat sound, which I love immensly. A little different and especially color-rich box is the Akai Hexacomp, which features compression and coloration per string (more or less), and it can aide to sounds like the rhythm guitar on Eno/Byrne's "America Is Waiting". Too bad there's so many guitar players yet very few that can & like to play 80's style rhythm guitar. As a drummer I always wanted to really merge bass, drums and rhythm guitar like it were a train, but somehow guitarists think of funk/soul rhythm guitar like it were ballroom dancing: difficult yet boring.
RJ! I realize this is an older video. You hit me in the feels! I'm from the 80s, and always will be, and this is amazing. I play guitar, and this is the sound I've chased my whole life, without realizing it. Thank you so much. Rock On.
Hello, I love your channel! I am a 68 year old keyboardist / guitar player and have had a MIDI duo / trio since 1986. Your story here is reminiscent of some fellow musicians in my area who, as "purists", disliked the MIDI / track type of act. Then several years later I see that same player doing a solo using tracks because the bottom fell out in the band world locally! As far as the 80's guitar sound, I actually loved it because I was playing a good selection of the tunes from the era. I totally understand your feeling toward the sound and the music of that time as I would say I was the opposite in not really liking the harder edged rock at the time. But, once, while performing in Lancaster PA, there was a "hard rock" club across the street from our hotel. After one nights gig, we went in to catch their last few sets and I thoroughly enjoyed the local bands spectacular performance. One more thing, as much as I love the chorused / processed sound, especially like the clip you played from PYT, i generally use chorus rarely in my own performance, usually on some 80's tune as it fits. I love Pat Metheny's chorused tone but on the other hand do not like Mike Stern's chorused sound very much as he seems to never turn it off. Keep the great informative videos coming!
Love the video, very interesting and fun! A quibble -- AOR wasn't originally the Richard Marx type stuff. It really was album-oriented, by which they meant the deep-cut FM stations of the 70s that would play stuff like Yes' Heart of the Sunrise, the full cut of 2112, or side I of Thick as a Brick -- that kinda thing. Listening to the local AOR station when I was a kid got me into a lot of interesting stuff a lot earlier than I otherwise would have.
I'm 56 and grew up with this tone You can get close to it with 4 inexpensive pedals. Compression, chorus, delay and reverb. Make sure you start with absolutely clean amp signal
I'd never thought much about it, but yeah, you nailed it! It reminds me of how comedians will do impressions, and for a moment you think you're listening to the real McCoy. Same here a couple times it sounded straight off the FM dial. Well done, and you got yourself a new subscriber!
Nailed it! Freakin awesome...Im an 80's teenager and was never a huge fan of 80's pop. However, there were several bands that we did covers of that had this tone - The Fixx, Wang Chung, Prince, etc. Love how you recreated it man! UA needs to make an RJ 80's template for this DAW!!
I still use two choruses, reverb and delay. I'm playing through a Mesa Boogie Mark IV Rocktron Intellifex, TC Electronics G Major2 and am old Midiverb IV. I also have a nice pedalboard with various distortion pedals, choruses, delays. I'm able to cop most sounds in the record playing covers (pays the bills) and still enjoy my own stuff. I also have an old Marshall Guvnor distortion pedal that's schweet.
80s/90s must have been the worst time ever for the kid in his bedroom wondering why he couldn't get his guitar, practice amp and one pedal to sound like the records.
I used to go as far as +13 and -13 cents on my SPX-90 to stereoize my tone in the 80s and if Emory serves, I used about 16ms and 30ms of delay with 0 feedback.
R.J. - great project and very thought-provoking! I'm about 10 years ahead of you and I think the same about some of the 70's tones and styles. There were also a lot of clean tones in the 70's, used to different effect. Clapton had some great cleans!
