Um what? Like I have no clue what your implying, because all the rides announced are within the themes of their lands. If you mean that the themes of the lands are conflicting, I only half agree with you. With the exception of Animal Kingdom and the Encanto/Indiana Jones Tropical land, the parks witt these additions are KNOWN for eclectic land themes in a single park. I mean the original Disneyland had a jungle, a fairy tale land, the wild west, the future, a middle America town, and New Orleans. Just say you don't like IPs and be done with it.
You gotta love Disney gaslighting parkgoers by not maintaining old rides, leading to people not wanting to ride them, and then saying "see, no one likes the old rides"
@zachhatten261 Isn't that thst their current film making strategy too? They don't make 2D animated stuff anymore, then use it to say "No ones watching them anymore", and justify not making them again. And because a lot of other studios are lemmings following trends, they drop 2D animation as well.
@@amusementparkmusic9245I watched a recent video and he was almost upset that people were so angry about getting rid of Tom Sawyer island and the river. He actually thinks it’s a great idea.
Symbolically, paving over the Frontier in order to make way for the internal combustion engine is comically dark and very on the nose, even for Disney.
I thought the same thing...cars driving crazily through the wilderness...what does the Sierra Club or National Geographic (one of their brands) have to say about that? I'm kind of shocked how tone deaf it is for 2024.
When will Disney realize its BIGGEST rides prior to slapping IPs on everything were Space Mountain, Pirates of the Caribbean, Big Thunder Mountain, Haunted Mansion, and The Matterhorn Bobsleds, right off the top of my head, ARE NOT TIED TO IPs! They became legendary attractions based solely on how good a ride each of them is! Disney's addiction to slapping IP's on everything is terrible in that NOTHING is created just to be a great ride like before.
Hate to break it to ya, but to anyone under 30 Pirates & Haunted Mansion are absolutely tied to movies and that is what have continued the wait times of those attractions. They literally have to change the mansion to NBC half the year to keep the “locals” riding it at DL.
Matterhorn Bobsleds is an IP ride, actually. It's just that the IP (the adventure film Third Man on the Mountain) is now largely forgotten, as is the novel on which it's based. It is kinda funny that the novel's haunted cave morphed into an angry yeti on the ride, though.
I think one of the reasons Tokyo DisneySea is often touted as the best Disney park in the world among park enthusiasts is precisely because it gets its theming right. The park's theme represents the call to adventure from the sea - which can be experienced from any port anywhere in the world - and all the mysterious places it can lead you. Thus, each land is a different port-of-call. There's a good mix of IP-based lands (Arabian Coast, Fantasy Springs, Mermaid Lagoon, etc) and non-IP lands (Mediterranean Harbor, American Waterfront, Port Discovery, etc); but even the IP lands have cohesion with the park's theme, and all of the lands are so meticulously detailed that they're all essentially walk-through attractions in their own right, before you even get on a ride. IPs and good theming can go hand-in-hand, but not if you just thoughtlessly slap recognizable characters everywhere and expect people to be satisfied with that, even when their proximity to each other has no cohesion whatsoever (Cars Land is going right between Tiana's Bayou Adventure and the Haunted Mansion? What??).
It's telling that the best two Disney Parks are not operated by Disney themselves. The Oriental Land company doesn't have the executive mandates from Disney leadership to integrate IPs into everything and so they actually have the freedom to do innovative concepts and most importantly imo can't afford to loose vistors as much as the domestic parks.
DisneySea also has loads of quiet places away from the crowds. The SS Columbia in New York, the fortress in Italy, the playground in Mermaid Lagoon, the lonely lighthouse in Cape Cod, and more. Tons of places you can take a break or let your kids explore. A combination or excellent rides, excellent theming, and things to do outside of rides. It really is better than any other park I've been to. A shame Disney didn't seem to learn anything from it.
also they invented their own IP from the parks upward in Duffy. if you don't know Duffy then you haven't been to the asian parks. when i tell you the Japanese fans are FANATICS for Duffy and friends im not doing it justice. Duffy SELLS out.
As someone who was a former imagineer, these are all reasons why I left the job despite it being one of my dreams. The short-term financial gain of the company just completely destroyed the creative powerhouse it used to be--one of the first things they teach you when you're in WDI or corporate is that the primary purpose of the company is to make money (which makes sense from a business perspective, but they lost sight of their initial mission statement). Furthermore, all projects seem to be dominated by data analytics dictating what ride-type and IP (IP was a huge part of all conversations) can go where, lack of communication between internal organizations led to constant infighting, and serial ego-inflating (think Traditions, but instead they reveal to you why the company does said program) to keep us happy and not realize we are underpaid and overworked and just cogs in the capitalist machine.
This is what I've heard from retired imagineers most of them threw their hands up and said to heck with it and left. I want to become an imagineer but I fear by the time I get there it will be too late.
I mean them telling EMPLOYEES that they're here only to make money is reason enough for me. It's not about the experience anymore, it's, per their words, primarily to get money out of me. ...Not impressed.
I think the real problem with IP based Lands is not the IP, but more the fact that these lands at Disney end up feeling more like glorified strip malls with one or two rides thrown in. They don't care about creating an engaging atmosphere, the land is just an excuse for Meet and Greets. That's why they are trying to get rid of the Rivers of America too, because to the executives it's only "wasted" space that could be used for more shopping and dining, not something that sets the mood of the land.
Not to mention the fact that now you've built an exclusively IP-based land, so you keep having to churn out more and more lame sequels in order to keep that particular IP relevant.
@@loogoo True, althrough I feel like Disney's approuch to this dilemma seems to be to make the lands as generic as possible so they can be rethemed in the Future. Like Avengers Campus will 100% be themed to something else in 30 years.
Yeah, agree. It feels like Galaxy's Edge was built to sell merch, but the merch doesn't really enhance your experience in the land or in the park. In the Wizarding World, the robes, wands and other items mostly feel like they directly affect your immersion, which I think is a fundamental difference that Disney doesn't really get. Why would people want to buy woven dolls or space junk? How does it immerse them in the world more?
It's like Disney completely missed the point of what made the Wizarding World of Harry Potter work. You are immersed because the entire land was specifically themed around all of the locations that already exist in the books and films, to make guests truly feel like they are in that world.
I mean I've witnessed this in an actual office to be honest actually. They replayed Cars 2 like 5 times the entire time I was there. Hope no one asks what I was there for...lol
It may not be the most popular attraction, but it's one of those things that makes Magic Kingdom, Magic Kingdom. It's what separates it from just being another theme park. As OP alluded to, it's kind of turning into Six Flags.
I absolutely love the idea of replacing beautiful nature with another parking lot. It's the American thing to do - keeping the superiority of Cars in place. Definitely nothing wrong with that, no sir. (but seriously it's such a bad idea pls don't do it)
A lot of people have brought this up online but it is worth mentioning. Another reason why Muppets Vision 3D potentially being axed is a bad idea is because it was the final Muppets project Jim Henson worked on before his passing. It was the swan song for the Muppets’ original creator and the idea of it being replaced with a different ip which is almost certainly only being added because of Disney+ numbers definitely feels disrespectful. It would also strengthen the sentiment that Disney doesn’t care about the Muppets which is a sentiment Muppet fans have had for quite some time now. I really do hope that Muppets Vision 3D does not get axed not just because it’s a good attraction but also because of what the attraction represents for the Muppets and their original creator.
Jim Henson wanted to sell the Muppets to Disney because he wanted them to be immortal and survive his passing, ironically Disney now neglect the Muppets. Poor Jim
Honestly, I have always gotten the vibe that Bob Iger just never truly cared about The Muppets, because it wasn't one of HIS acquisitions. It was the last acquisition made under Eisner, and it was one that he had been trying to get for over a decade.
@@TheItachiIshtar I feel like its a vicious cycle of "The studio thinks the Muppets aren't a profitable IP -> They don't invest in new Muppets projects -> younger audiences don't know who the Muppets are -> the studio thinks the Muppets aren't a profitable IP"
Funny thinking that they announced all of this to persuade fans to come to Disney instead of Universal. After these I wonder how many people are switching their disneyworld trip to a universal trip. My fiance and I have already decided we are gonna go to Universal instead after all of these lame announcements.
I don’t scared is the word. They have known Universal has been building a theme park since 2014 ish time when they started to purchase the land. They had plenty of time to react but know Epic isn’t going to hurt them that much. They still got 20 hotels that will other the dining plan next year which is a huge draw for families.
Not really…theyve been planning some of this stuff before Epic Universe was announced. However, Disney needs to build much quicker than they’ve been building recently.
All the great "Imagineers" who were chased out of Disney- now work for Universal, hence why Universal is coming up with some amazing experiences. Disney needs to bring Horizons back...even now, it would be relevant.
Yes! This! It also boggles my mind that test track is randomly getting another retheme, yet journey into imagination is still left untouched. Forget all this ip stuff. You want to bring fans back, Disney? BRING BACK THE ORIGINAL JOURNEY INTO IMAGINATION AND OLD EPCOT RIDES
@ukebirdscribbles6003 yes- and "they" say the "New" Test Track will pay "tribute" to Wheels In Motion - they should've never gotten rid of it in the first place...it too, would still be relevant. Eisner/ Iger did not see the point in paying for animatronic up keep...this is most likely the real reason why these masterful rides were taken away.
I’ve been worried about Disney as a whole my entire adulthood, the management from the top down was light years better when I was a child. Now that I’m adult, I can see the “New Disney” only cares about purchasing companies, remaking (badly) the movies we fell in love with, and creating boring overpriced rides with no originality. Their parks and movies have lost their magic, uninspired and uncreative is the Disney brand now, they only know how to phone it in.
It just feels as though they legitimately have no idea what people want. I just imagine a whole bunch of suits in a meeting are trying desperately to guess what consumers actually will watch or go to the parks for. They are determined it's some grand, complex strategy they need, but it's simply that they need to make good quality stuff with actual heart, and make sure that it fits cohesively with where it's at in the parks.
it's crazy that they can't get it right after all these years. How did those guys nail it back in the day with Pirates? You really felt like you were transported physically. The dark high ceilings, expansive feel, bayou theming. Even the restaurant in the middle, added so much mystique. The physicality of the ride still works, compared to the new rides
@@outriggerunderground And the pirates movie has the same baffling effect in terms of the films. In the early 2000s they actually went to an island, got a real sailing vessel, actually dressed people in pirate costumes, and made a great movie. Today on a Marvel project, they'll go into a green room where the actors wear suits covered in little motion capture balls, and then long after that they'll actually create the cgi environment and superhero suits (until they need to do a reshoot and they scrap everything and do it over again.)
To me, the worst part about these announcements for Disney World, is that they're all replacements. They're not actually raising capacity. They're obviously trying to compete with Epic Universe, but they're not actually raising their market share. Epic Universe is adding an ENTIRE PARK to their resort, along with multiple hotels, that's a MASSIVE capacity boost to their entire Florida resort. Meanwhile all Disney is doing is just replacing existing areas and attractions. Nothing's actually being added here. They're not raising their capacity. Which means that while Universal will see a massive attendance boost, Disney's will likely remain roughly the same, if not LOWER due to losing marketshare in Florida to Epic Universe.
Right, this is trying to compete with Universal, but on the cheap. They could built a new Park, they got the land, but that costs money and would require actual Imagineering something they want to avoid. Disney went from being an industry leader to being the cheap knockoff, but with premium prices.
yeah, this is a very important aspect, i have never understood why disney focuses so much on the "e-ticket" attractions, when they know from time and time again, only having those kinda fucks up your capacity and makes lines and the guest experience unbearable. guess what? when you're waiting 3 hours for slinky dog dash, it's a lot less fun than if you just waited 1. look at regional parks, they add a big roller coaster every 5-10 years, but every once in a while they add a pendulum flat ride, a family coaster, or a carrousel... if everything is the "e-ticket" attraction, then you're completely devaluing your e-tickets not just in terms of not having anything to compare it to, but also you're jamming those lines up to insane numbers, i couldn't agree more with what you said!
@@matheuscastello6554 I guess announcing a new E ticket every year makes the investors happy because they think it will drive up attendance. But as you said to quote Syndrome: "If everything is an E Ticket nothing is"
I remember Walt saying, “Here in Florida we have the blessing of size. Meaning instead of maintaining and expanding the parks, we’ll sell the land for a quick buck and implode our attractions when we face competition. If we can dream it, we can doze it.”
Well the original purpose of the land was to create an experimental city. The parks were just a means to fund the city and provide employment to those living in it.
What are you talking about? Your comment doesn't make any sense. They have the blessing of size meaning they DONT have to bulldoze existing attractions. Current Disney is only worried about bulldozing Walt's vision and installing hokey IP attractions and souvenir stands.
@@Pissgremlin5964It’s blatantly sarcastic. We’re all upset that rides and areas are being replaced instead of just building them elsewhere. Hollywood Studios has terrible lines and personally, I’ll always be upset until they ADD rides instead of replacing them. That park is only gonna get worse-
I have no love lost for Tom Sawyer island- I’ve long thought that they could and should do something more interesting there. While I respect others who do care for it, that just can’t be me, I am apathetic towards it at best. But I am VERY concerned about them paving in the river?? This would be disastrously bad. The river serves a very important function- it is cooling, it absorbs heat and also dispels cool air to the surrounding area. It’s literally an engineered piece of outdoors temperature control, something needed in Florida. If they are replacing that with asphalt and concrete and metal, it will make a lot of Magic Kingdom a lot hotter and more miserable. Also, I agree that the rivers suit the land so well thematically, and just contribute a lot to the vibe there. I don’t care at all about Tom Sawyer, but I would be devastated to lose that river.
The sad truth is that we will never have another Marc Davis, as the current Disney "brand" would never allow for originality and passion within their parks in such a way
Talented creatives definitely still work at imagineering, it’s just executives like Bob Iger and his cronies that stifle the imagineers’ creativity and work with forced IP integration and reduced budgets
Losing the Rivers Of America is a disaster. My fear is that everyone will find this out way too late. The Disney Company will not be able to correct this once it’s in place; this is not like the EPCOT lagoon where they can remove unsightly barges to put things back the way they were…. Once this is gone, it’s gone.
removing that river will completely destroy frontierland hell there is no way frontierland would be built today because its not an IP thing its a creative idea
I don't think any of these parks would exist in all honesty if they were made today. They would end up looking like that Fortnite online park that Disney wants to make, just with extreme budget cuts though.
@@theghostofboxes2192 This. TSI is working well at DLR with Tom and Huck playing pirates, which is literarily-correct Clements. Plus, Frontierland was never really "cowboys and indians." Davy Crockett was a member of Congress, FFS. He was anti-Indian Removal Act, too.
Disney stopped caring about memories and focused solely on Instagram stories, with all the vapidness and shallowness that comes with it. The food doesn't need to be good, it needs to be snappable. The rides don't need to be good, they have to be visually stimulating and chaotic enough to warrant a photo op. The Tron Ride comes to mind, with its admittedly stunning and dynamic entry way contrasted against how mid and lackluster the actual coaster is. I got off the ride and went "Well at least I got some cool photos" and I feel like that's their mission statement. Contrast to Universal where I got a ton of good photos AND some memorable experiences
I like to think Disney will cater to those who have short term memory loss, or "Dories," because there's no way anyone with half a brain would enjoy the current state of Walt Disney Theme Parks in the USA. At least in Tokyo DisneySea, there's some promises, so I hear. The same can be said with Universal Studios, though I am positive with them.
The most memorable thing about Universal for me was how nauseous I was all day from all the screen based rides and motion simulators. They made $0 on food from me that day because I was too afraid to eat anything.
You touched on this but I think one of the main issues is the lack of cohesion seen throughout all of the parks in the IP the seem to randomly shove into different corners of each park. Going to WDW as a kid, there was a real sense of immersion that came from the cohesive/consistent theming found in different sections of the parks and the overall theme of each park as a whole (Epcot for all things science and tech, Hollywood Studios for movie related stuff, Animal Kingdom for animals obvs). Now though, I can't see any of the additions or modifications they've made in the last decade or so as anything other than a bunch of execs identifying areas of their parks that either had 1. attractions that weren't proprietary IP (ie anything they had to pay some other company for the use of their IP) and 2. areas of the parks that had run-down or under-utilized attractions. The result is now you have a Cars attraction in a frontier/Louisiana section of the magic kingdom, Guardians of the Galaxy at Epcot, Indiana Jones at animal Kingdom, and monsters Inc at Hollywood studios. What's even the point of the parks if there's no core identity for each of the parks, rather Disney execs seem to view the parks as a conglomerate whole of the land they own where they can just flippantly spread any of their IP across regardless if it makes sense from a theming perspective. Especially compared to Epic Universe which anyone can clearly see was maticulously planned out by ppl who are passionate about creating a cohesive experience and telling a story with their park/attractions.
Of the many issues with the garbage that was released at D23, the one that hits home for me is the removal of the Rivers of America, and more importantly to myself, the removal of the Liberty Belle. Having a career in the maritime industry and loving our history, her removal and subsequential dismantling would be heartbreaking. She's one of, i think, 8 operational paddle steamers left in the world. Yes guided by a track, but still an operational paddle steamer. for 18 years straight, my family drove to WDW for a week long vacation and as a child, she was my favorite ride. I love when things are authentic, and to me, that's what has always separated the Disney Company. Authenticity to the scale that the Liberty Belle was inspiring. I have a lot to thank that boat for as far as playing a major role in my inspiration to do what I do as a career, but also for the fond memories with mom and dad. God, I sincerely hope they cancel that stupid cars project.
It's kind of freeing and refreshing to be completely divested/removed from Disney, Star Wars, and Marvel at this point. It has made my life a lot simpler and I realized I don't need these in my life to be entertained. These videos are pretty much just confirmation.
My teens have actually said the same- it’s really freeing to get this mental “space” from the version of Disney we have loved so much, although they were speaking mainly of changes to the parks. For instance, they can’t stand Guardians after riding it once last year, and it’s nice that we can enjoy things like roaming the world showcase or riding living with the land or three cabelleros while not worrying about the hot new ride. The highlight of our trip this summer was sharing a Kringla and drinking Kristoff Kaffe in Norway together. I love that they also don’t feel the need to chase these IP driven changes. It’s sad but also freeing.
I agree. I do use Disney+ because a friend of mine lends my partner and I their subscription, but we're mostly very picky on we watch, which is 94% older material thatw e want to watch, 5% recommendations (usually also of older material), and 1% later seasons of The Clone Wars. I gave up on Disney Marvel shows a long time ago and the only Disney movie I've cared about in the past couple of years is Deadpool & Wolverine, which is largely because of how clearly passionate everyone involved is about the project.
Yep. I've gone through all the phases - was a kid who just liked Disney. Then I was a teen who was kind of embarrassed to like it. Then I started really liking it, getting really into the history of the animation and the parks. Then I started seeing cracks in everything. I pointed them out. People groaned calling me a stick in the mud who just can't enjoy things, gaslighting me that there wasn't a problem. The cracks widened. I began watching copious amounts of hate content, feeling glorious schedenfreude whenever the company had a failure. But over time the endless hate just made me feel crappy. I saw more and more how much the company had decayed, and now, I've stopped watching the hate content, stopped really caring in general. The company is barely a shadow of what it once was. It's a pathetic IP branded husk, that cares little for its once mainly family audience. Maybe one day Disney will be humbled enough to change, but I have little interest in following that journey to the bottom anymore.
People need to re-evaluate their relationship with a megacorporation. Any positive emotions you feel are a result of manipulation, deconstructing that and reframing all relationships with corporations as antagonistic is something I think everyone needs to do if we want to start fixing society.
@@alextirrellRIto be honest if it wasn't cars it'd be fine. The rivers going away is understandable considering it doesn't really have a lot of traffic on the island itself, and if you take a look at the map, building around it would have been a logistical nightmare. This at least opens it up to more expansion in the future. Disney has the blessing of size but that has been the excuse for over half a century at this point.
Paving over the rivers of America for Cars and then I'm also hearing they're removing Muppet Vision for the Monsters Inc stuff. This company is something else. Edit: So it looks like they created concept art depicting monsters inc. in place of both muppets and animation courtyard. And now they’re gauging which option has the least negative reaction by the public. At least that’s what it seems like to me. The fact they’re even considering the muppets removal is a big 👎
@@remyd8767 they should probably add attractions instead of removing older ones first. Especially a park feature that was there day 1 and that was integral to the theming and flow of a specific land.
@remyd8767 what a poor gotcha counter argument. Yes Disney should be new rides but it should be full of thought and fit with the grand theme of the park. Slapping an IP into an area because they have the space is a lazy corporate cash grab.
I had the displeasure of talking to a Disney exec once when I was on a business trip. I can confirm that at least that one was extremely out of touch with both their general audience and their own product. A snobbish, living rubber stamp without a personality beyond golf, investment and his tesla. Of course he might be an isolated case and I am of course biased. But I can hardly imagine the rest of them being much better. I get that Eisner wasn't perfect and especially towards the end of his tenure was pretty bad as far as concise leadership goes. But the people being brought on by Iger in the upper echelons are very indicative of the overal personality of the company now. Eisner at least understood that he was running an entertainment company rather than a glorified folder of assets that need to increase in value. In many ways Eisner was correct when he said he was one of the last 'creative types'. To a lot of Iger-coded people the word 'innovation' is a buzzword, and nothing more. Best compared to moving your old furniture around because you are 'ready for something new'. The finance sector's more seasoned people tend to be very risk-adverse, and it shows in the very finance-minded people being brought in.
Imagine standing in line for haunted mansion.Music playing and you enjoying the atmosphere.Then all of sudden you hear a noise turn around and see talking cars with faces.
I've been wondering if they'll attempt a visual segue by having a few crashed cars between the two attractions, with ghosts hovering over them. (Okay, I'm being snarky. Even Iger might veto something that dark. lol )
The decision to bulldoze Tom Sawyer Island and the Rivers of America has me deeply concerned, as it has me afraid that IP will eventually infect or replace everything. Will the haunted mansion be changed to Nightmare Before Christmas year round? Will all the classic fantasy land rides be replaced with more recent films? It just feels like nothing is sacred to them anymore. If they try to put in this cars ride at Disneyland I don't think I'd ever want to go there again.
I mean... tom sawyer island was never a huge popular attraction and is much more practical of an area to put an expansion instead of building around the rivers which might sound easy but isn't super doable.
@@cookimaus1 Practicality is such a cold way to view it. It was a nice quiet place in the park where you could take kids to just play in the caves and stuff like that. The rivers are more - there a nice open area that give some breathing room, and just add to the atmosphere of the space. The cars land being dropped down into here is also just terrible for the theming cohesion of the overall area, something modern Disney cares very little about.
The haunted Mansion has become its own IP as of lately with all the Halloween merchandise they sell so I don't believe they will remove it without a lot of backlash
You kinda hit it out of the park here again, Poseidon. The Villains Land announcement and the passion going into the Universal Monsters area in Epic Universe is like night and day. With Universal, it’s very clear that they had a vision for this place and everyone working on the project has a lot of passion behind it. With Disney, it seems like they came up with the IP idea first, and the actual attractions second - if they even have any ideas for them at all.
Villains land was literally something that people have been begging for and been rumoring for nearly 30 years. Hell they teased it at their last D23 in 2022. This was in the cards for years and hey. This means we got two dark/evil themed lands instead of one. One more catered to the horror/monster fans and one catered towards family and groups. It's a win-win in my book.
@@MyEcho4Normally, I would be excited for this. I’ve been asking for something like it for years now too. I love Disney’s villains. But as of now, I’m less confident in how Disney handle their IP, or if they’ll give it thematic consistency and worthwhile attractions. I’m definitely not against the idea of it, as it’s a guilty pleasure of mine, but at the same time, that makes me all the more cautious in my expectations of them messing up an idea I had once been anticipating.
This. All the promotional content for Epic Universe and Dark Universe gave me prime Imagineer vibes. There's a vision and a commitment to the vision. You feel like Universal had a plan and they are going to execute it. With Disney it's always a vague idea and then the execution is usually lacking because they end up pinching pennies.
@@marcospisanis739 Kinda agree, Poseidon praises Universal for making a park that’s 100% IP, with the exception of the park center. Meanwhile Disney does basically the same in response and is getting dunked on. Both companies have had hits and misses lately; Universal’s two latest projects (Minions and Dreamworks land) have been bad. My hope is that Epic Universe is as good as it looks on paper and that forces Disney to up their game; the same way the Wizarding World led to Pandora.
@@chriso9749 I think it's missing that there's a difference in likely execution, though; there's a big difference between how Universal pulled off Nintendo World, for example, and Disney's attempts at doing similar stuff that's largely involved *removing* theming to make it work. Universal doesn't get me all excited and giddy, but they at least go from the bottom-up saying "this is all themed after movie properties, deal with it" - Disney keeps trying to tell me all these IPs fit into Frontierland, Future World, Animal Kingdom, etc., but instead it's clear it's mostly post hoc attempts at justifying decisions that actively remove or downplay preexisting theming.
I've never been to Walt Disney World, but even I can see the insanity of removing the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer's Island. Not just because they are a refuge from the crowds. Who at Disney thinks it's a good idea to remove such a large body of water, especially in hot Florida?
You're not gonna notice the temperature difference. They're not in the business of keeping entire areas open so a handful of people can use them. That's a huge waste of space. Now, whether or not Cars belongs there can be debated, but I don't know why anyone is upset with the concept of removing a barely used piece of land and replacing it with something that will actually eat crowds.
@@AndrewG99 This is entirely wrong. You will notice a temperature difference. Go stand in the middle of a parking lot on a hot day. Then immediately go to a park with a lake and stand next to the lake. The Cars attraction they are building involves acres of concrete. Everything you see in that rendering that is not a green tree-shape is concrete.
@@DrStarlander I'm not saying it won't be marginally cooler. I'm saying you won't notice. You aren't close enough to the water with a strong enough breeze in the summer time for it to be appreciably cooler. It's the same way that walking around World Showcase might be marginally cooler than Future World, but it's not a noticeable difference - on a blisteringly hot day, it's going to be just as oppressively hot. EDIT: To add - we don't know that they're only adding concrete. There is concept art, but it's also got a snow-covered mountain. I don't think that's the final rendering, so we don't actually know it's just concrete.
@@AndrewG99what else do you think it’ll be besides concrete? You really think it’s going to be a snow covered mountain? No removing the RoA is the absolute worst decision Disney has made regarding the MK. It WILL be appreciably hotter. Worse than that you’re taking a very serene and peaceful part of the park and replacing it with more hot concrete and more crowds and more noise. I think there’s very few that wouldn’t welcome a Carsland in the MK but just build it beyond thunder mountain. There is absolutely zero reason they need to pave over the RoA. There’s plenty of land where it would be welcomed. But instead Disney chooses this route.
@@tanman99 I don't know what it's going to be, but freaking about it before anything happens isn't really helpful. It WON'T be appreciably hotter. There's not enough water volume, surface area or airflow to make a huge difference. It's not like Seven Seas Lagoon. They're replacing it because NOBODY GOES THERE. Yet, they still have maintenance costs, cast member staffing, security, infrastructure etc. It's gonna be okay.
I used to resent when people would say "Disney is for kids." They weren't. They were great at creating immersive lands and attractions and giving top quality guest services. Now it seems that Disney has decided that they are for kids. And I mean that in the sense that Disney seems to approach its audience like a local mall that has a "Meet the Characters of Cocomelon" day. It doesn't matter where you put them. It doesn't matter if they are placed in front of a sporting goods store or the food court. It doesn't matter what they're doing or why they are the mall in the first place. The only thing that matters is you get to see them and they'll sing songs you're kids are familiar with.
yeah I think most people that complain about IP based themeing are adults/adults with no kids.(I definitely fall into this category). Im an adult that loves Disney but have noticed how tacky it is starting to look. However, I do believe kids love seeing IP around the parks/hotels. I think they can cater to both audiences by having a hotel/hotels/attractions that cater more to artistic theming, as well as keep some IP stuff. There's definitely a crowd that likes IP themeing and its mainly kids and their parents. I hope they realize this because a lot of money is coming from adults with no kids. They will end up loosing a lot of money if they neglect this audience. Disney world is very expensive and there ain't that many families with large amounts of income.
@@xmissyangelzx I'm an adult with kids. And while IPs have always had a place at Disney parks, that has always been secondary to the overall presentation. Even Fantasyland darks rides all had a wow factor that went beyond the fact that it's a ride based on a beloved movie. Pinocchio has Pleasure Island and the sneak attack by monstro, in addition to just being a charming attraction in its own right. Alice and Wonderland has always been amazing in terms of the detail and immersion. And Snow White's Scary Adventure was atmospheric and had its iconic jump scares. And everyone is blown away when they fly over London on Peter Pan. And it doesn't matter whether or not you've seen The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr Toad, Mr Toad's Wild Ride is an absolute blast. In each of those cases, presentation trumps IP. The rides work because they're amazing, not because they're familiar. I'd be in favor of more modern IPs being tastefully included in moderation. But the focus needs to be on creating original and creative attractions that stand the test of time because they becomes icons of their own. Just think Pirates, Haunted Mansion and Spaceship Earth and you realize how an orginal attraction can become a Disney icon on its own.
@@xmissyangelzx Honestly when I was a kid, I was initially more interested in the IP rides, but the second I rode Spaceship Earth when I was 5, my fascination kinda grew more into the original rides. I think a big factor onto why IP rides are doing so well is because of the movies and how much they advertise those rides specifically. I remember in 2011 when I first went to Epcot, and I met up with a few friends (I was 5 at the time) everyone kept talking about how cool Test Track and Mission Space were, but not a single one brought up Nemo. I really think it has alot to do with how the company advertises these rides and also like Poseidon mentioned, Disney + on why every kid focuses on the IP rides.
I've always hated that a 'for kids' mentality seems to think that things need to be dumbed down or have less care go into them. Children do actually appreciate detail, thought and care. Growing up with PBS shows like Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood taught me that.
@@zacg_ i completely understand that and agree! Iger will be out by 2026 maybe even earlier. So hopefully who ever takes over next values creativity and realises IP being a priority when it comes to hotel design/attractions is not a sustainable approach. Some Disney IP thats been out already, has lost popularity. Like some movies, shows etc are a trend of the time and then dies down. Its not sustainable plus Disney hasn’t been doing so great with their media as of recent anyway.
Also, if you missed the news story of the past few days, Disney lawyers are arguing signing up for Disney+ means you can't sue them if a family member dies in the park (In this cause it was due to a complete failure to account for their allergies that they told restaurant staff about). No Really, they are THAT comically evil at this point.
To be fair, this was an independent restaurant at Disney Springs. All they do with Disney is pay rent. So really interesting that they're going after Disney. But not as interesting as this weird tactic from the lawyers. Just crazy..
Well that claim by Disney's lawyers is completely bogus. But it's the job of the lawyers to get Disney out of law suits so they are grasping at whatever straws they can. But that argument is not going to help Disney+ subscription rates. I'm surprised Disney is allowing its lawyers to run with that. That being said, Disney does have a better defense in that they don't own or operate the restaurant in question.
@@danielvandersall6756 I agree that the legal angle is a bit odd. But I can also argue that Disney should not have restaurants on their property unless those restaurants take basic business health & safety measures seriously... like not serving food containing ingredients that they'd been told the customer could die from. Assuming that Disney loses the lawsuit - as I expect they will - Disney has every right to sue the actual restaurant. And I hope Disney learns a lesson from this. (But even as I'm typing that, I'm thinking, "Poseidon just pointed out so many ways Disney has made foolish decisions in the past; why would they learn anything from this?")
@@themagicandmore My wife and I were there in late 2020-she has serious nut allergies and they were always very helpful. I'm honestly a little surprised that this happened at all. Of course every time I look more and more is being removed or cut and the prices just keep rising..
@@danielvandersall6756Yeah same. My sister has a VERY minor dairy allergy, and yet CM’s have always gone above and beyond at WDW to help us out with getting dairy-free products
The things that got me into the Disney parks when I was younger and got my imagination rolling had nothing to do with Disney IP. Space mountain, haunted mansion, pirates, Tom Sawyer island, the jungle cruise at magic kingdom. Spaceship earth, Everest, living with the land, tower of terror. Hell, The Great Movie Ride sparked my interest in old Sci fi movies as a teen. I enjoyed going to the parks to escape into a themed world I could make my own. These new plans (and changes for the past decade) are just so disappointing.
The Cars announcement was such a double edged sword for me as was Indiana Jones. I try not to let IP sway me and most of the time I don’t let it. But these two films really are some of my all time favorites, and getting them close to home had me thinking I could be hyped for them. Losing Dinosaur in any case still bothered me, but now Rivers of America too?!?! That one really really hurt. I’m fully convinced now of two things: Disney doesn’t know how to manage space in Florida, and someone I don’t know if Iger or someone else, is hellbent on taking all of the charm of the parks away, leaving no stone unturned.
Losing dinosaur boggled your mind? That whole land is completely outdated and the ride is in a state of dis-repair with a dead IP behind it. It desperately needed replacing
@@Pizzakong633 when I say boggled I mean that it bothered me. I love that ride and think it’s phenomenal, losing it was always going to hurt deep down.
The reason I think Dinosaur hurts even though it is technically classified as an IP is because originally it wasn't. They layered the Dinosaur IP on.. and quite loosely. Countdown to extinction WAS original and not a bad use of the Indy ride system and layout (I say that as someone who lived in Anaheim, was an AP and rode Indy the day it opened. The first time I rode countdown to extinction I sneered that "we had Indy and they didn't". But after another several rides I realized this had some good originality, including being "chased" down the track. That's just why I think people who loved dinosaur are torn about this. Dino land in general I think isn't good except for the boneyard and countdown to extinction. But these were good efforts.
They may have all of that land but they aren’t allowed to build on all of it. Much of it has to be used as conservation to counteract what they have built.
@@Pizzakong633 I think what it comes down to is if you're going to replace an attraction, you replace it with something bigger and more interesting. Dinosaur, for it's time, was a really cool and innovative ride. The dinosaur theme also fit into Animal Kingdom.
What hurts me the most (aside from utterly butchering frontier land) about this announcement is the fact they're treating Walt like one of their marketable IPs. He was a real person but they treat him like just another mascot they can stick on a ride to boost park attendance.
The reason Star Tours and Muppet Vision have low wait times is because they are high capacity attractions! They have to keep those. Star Tours is so versatile, especially with the changing experiences. Happy for them to replace Rock n Rollercoaster though.
Anyone saying they want underused space gone aren't the people going to the parks. They're shareholders who want their values to go up. No actual human being going into the park is thinking "man I want more shoulder to shoulder 120 minute waits in 115°F weather!"
You hit the nail on the head. The further and further Disney is removed from the “Disney difference” that people love the parks for the less and less I want to go. They’re not only adding things that are not very interesting but doing it at the expense of things that are. It’s so obvious they are shooting their own foot. We can only hope that someone wakes up and realizes this before it’s too late and we lose the Disney we all fell in love with altogether.
Agreed that is is frustrating to see Disney triple down on the IP dumps in an attempt to capture new audiences. The attractions always are hollow and lack the magic that old Disney had. One of the biggest park mistakes Disney made was the introduction on the genie plus/lightning lane system. Pulling people into their phones, which we are all always constantly on, and away from the immersion that once did exist. Sad that the goal is for people to snap chat a picture with a husk of an attraction instead of either - being immersed/escaping into magic or coming away from something with a different perspective through story telling. Like Disney Plus, the investment is all about generating as many hits as possible and secondary concerns are storytelling and quality. Appreciate the perspective as always.
Man, I hate branding. I thought the biggest strength of the Disney Parks back then is that they proposed experiences that were unique to the parks, and not just retellings of the films. And now we get MOAR CARS. CAAAAAAAAAAARS
The Star Wars hotel which would have been a genius idea to just make a nice upscale hotel that's Star Wars themed and instead became the most overpriced resort ever made is truly a mind boggling management decision.
That’s because the interactive story experience was supposed to be a feature of galaxy’s edge and included to visitors. But, they decided they could make more money by making it a LARP experience. There wasn’t enough demand to justify the high costs of operation. I feel for the cast members as they did the best they could with what they had.
@@britt5650 a LARP experience designed by the most stuck-up corporate "finance guys" who have never attended as much as a DND session... not surprised it failed :P It was a long-term character meet-and-greet mixed with a few shallow mini games.
I haven't been to WDW in 3 years and that trip...was the last straw. The standby wait for Navi River Journey was 3 hours and we just had to pay extra to get a lighning lane and for what? The most disappointing boat ride I've been on. The constant fiddling with phones to get a booking for this and that meant RUNNING from place to place and not relaxing in the slightest. They rides aren't built to handle high guests per hour, they are in odd places, and rife with projection screens. The monorail and boat transportation vehicles sorely need refurbishment. It seemed like almost every full-service restaurant at every hotel and park shared half of the menu with each other. My family fought...a lot. That never happened before. I found myself looking up flights to get out of there early. My favorite part of the trip was the Liberty Belle. It *was* the respite, and it's being taken away. I don't even want to start on the Polynesian DVC tower which is both hideous and close enough to the Grand Floridian to disrupt the theming of both resorts.
The phone issue has been one that's disappointed us the most. Seeing parents - and now their children, too - staring at their phones as they walk through the Magic Kingdom, missing (what's left of) its beautiful landscapes and theming... it's tragic. To me, Disney has always been an escape to a wonderful place, detached from the tyranny of everyday tedium. Having to rush around, constantly consulting your phone...? How is that an escape, or even a vacation? (Rhetorical questions, of course.) Note: Our phones are off from the moment we park our cars. We'll happily saunter around Disney's parks, enjoying the views, and catching attractions with the shortest wait times.
Disney wants to turn their hotels into Holiday Inns with a couple $5 posters and charge $1000+ a night. I'll just use my IHG points and stay at a real Holiday Inn.
This comment makes me the most sad, because it's absolutely true. They've lost almost everything that makes them so special. 😢 And I just don't know if they'll ever want to get it back because they're so unaware.
I have the feeling we've already crossed eachother on the Disney Subreddit, since your thoughts on RVA and TSI pretty much mirror my own. Removing tom sawyer island is a horrible decision that shows that the "immersion" central to Walt's idea for disney is gone. TSI was an area for kids to just be kids, away from parents, or overarching authority telling them HOW to be kids. These elements were central for the area's theming and purpose. It will be replaced by a "wilderness" that will ironically run on rails, as kids are carted around and told what to look at, when, and how to enjoy it. Just like the new attractions and IP glut. Why run and jump and explore a cave and make new friends and hide in a barrel or do anything at all, when you can be shuffled around in a cheap ride system to point at things you recognize and somehow feel good about it. I think its good to always compare what Disney has become now, to what it was originally designed as, and compare it to its core inspiration -- Tivoli gardens. Tivoli Gardens is designed as an amusement park, but a destination in its own right for people to enjoy again and again. Its 25 euro to enter. You can pop in any time for music, snack, entertainment, or to walk the grounds. Disney had that quality years ago. Now--in pricing and in its attractions--its a sensory overload mecca. It can only be experienced in spurts with little repeat value, if you could afford to go multiple times at all. Parking yourself under a tree, beside a river, soaking in a moment transported someplace else, has no place now in today's Disney. The parks cost an arm and a leg to get into. A family trip to WDW costs more than a down payment for a new car. Who can afford to have kids run around or take an extended break when the mathmatics of entertainment hours per dollar is so burdensome. To be honest though, and you touched on this in the video, this change reflects modern consumer sentiments. People lack their own imagination and just want to be given some sensory overload of fluff while they wait around in 1 hr lines for their next sensory experience, or pay hundreds of dollars to skip that line and maximize that overload. TSI didn't sell merchandise. It didnt sell fast-passes to avoid lines. The barge showed up when it did, you left when it did. It didn't sell "experiences" other than the ones you made yourself while you're there. And that's why they've decided its got to go.
@@SammyNail and that is exactly what Walt did NOT want Disneyland (though most of this is regarding WDW) to be when he built it. The company has no vision.
I do think it is appropriate to start using the term "amusement park" to describe the Disney Parks as a way to signal to Disney that they are failing to uphold the standards required of a "theme park."
These announcements have really made me angry. But I’m even more angry at the Disney apologeticists. The Markeeters. The influencers who are so obviously in Disney’s pocket and would say anything to defend the mouse. They’ve done quite a good job courting these influencers and it shows. I swear they could announce that they’re taking down the castle or space ship earth tomorrow and replacing it with a Strange World themed instagram wall and there’d be an army of apologeticists who would defend that decision. It’s so irritating. You can speak out against the mouse.
Thank Poseidon am not happy about Iger's Disney .While Eisner made a lot of decisions that didn't pan out, including a few that many might even call disastrous. Those things happened because he was willing to experiment and pursue innovation. By most accounts he genuinely cared about the guest experience and was deeply involved in the creative process throughout the entire company. But as the legacy 90s kids become phased out in favor of the Villains obsessed Gen Zers, these changes will only accelerate Disney has no idea what’s in store after this.
To add... Eisner had a partner - Wells who was in charge of finances - allowing Eisner to dream. Too bad Wells died forcing Eisner to have to compromise/give up on those dreams.
Classic Disney attractions have longevity because they grip your imagination. They invite you to ask questions. What is that? Where does it lead? Who lives here? Why are they here? What happened to them? And then your imagination takes flight. Think about Pirates before Jack Sparrow and Haunted Mansion. There's no story in a straightforward sense (it's there structurally and emotionally, but that's another discussion) and people connect deeply with it. The dark rides asked you to employ your imagination as the main character to make them more thrilling than just being an observer. Newer attractions employ a character that tells you there's a story, gives you a mission, and then narrates the entire event and yet it comes off feeling hollow. It doesn't allow guests to use their imagination. And it gets boring on repeat. Walt was someone who nurtured artists and knew what it meant to stir people's imaginations. It's why he got great results and I think that's what he tried to do for everyone with the park. Unfortunately, there is always that segment of the population that can't get there. They want to be spoon-fed the details. Disney is now catering to that bunch instead of trying to lift everyone to a higher standard.
It's kind of concerning and speaks to a larger problem that people's idea of good media or experiences is "I KNOW THAT THING!!!!" Yeah, we all know Ariel. And Luke Skywalker. And Elsa. Including them in the thing shouldn't be enough to satisfy you.
"I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SEEN THE THING I RECOGNIZED!" They're literally the people RLM mocked in Rouge One: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OfJRm0WssOE.html
This may reflect on the mental state of audiences today than on any lack of creativity. When a person is anxious or depressed, familiarity feels comforting. Hell, these days even I’ve noticed that I have trouble getting into brand new shows and movies, and I think that’s why.
Well yes...people want to see the things they know and are nostalgic for. It is the same reason all 4 of Epic Universal's portals are IP's people recognize and love...
I still remember the days of Exhibition everest's opening......... okay no I didn't because I was six, but I saw other people's recollection of it. It was a very hype and anticipated ride, but not because there was a big IP that they could soyjak over, it's because it was the most expensive roller coaster, not to mention the most ambitious to boot. It had a new mechanic of going backwards and tracks changing, You were going through a massive man made mountain, and the animatronic at the end of the ride was the biggest and fastest moving one of any of the parks. It was something that people were excited for because it had so much potential of being unique and good, not because they liked the IP.
I’m shocked how little people care that rivers of America is being demolished. They’re completely ignoring the damage it’ll do to the theming of all the surrounding parts of the park (Haunted Mansion now looking up to a racetrack instead of at a quiet river, Big Thunder and Tiana being set at least relatively in the past, now next to a modern racetrack, Frontierland just abruptly jumping to modern day), and the fact that they’re ignoring the expansion plot to the left of Big Thunder that would at least somewhat obscure the ride and not demolish a park icon. And the only reason given is “well, more rides are always better. You couldn’t ride the river so it’s a better replacement”. Disney is just Six Flags at this point and the fans of the parks actually seem to want it that way.
If you scrap the train, I'm pretty sure Walt's ghost will haunt you to the ends of the earth. After all, Disneyland is basically the result of Walt's desire for a giant train set.
Unironically, that train is basically the catalyst for Disney Land, and hence Disney World. If they remove that train, I quite literally do not think that I’d ever go back.
getting rid of dino land is so sad, to think that they really expect random IP to be more attractive than literal dinosaurs as if like most kids aren’t obsessed with them
Literally, our knowledge of dinosaurs is always evolving, so those rides can be updated and refreshed to include newer information, it’s a timeless concept kids and adults have always loved.
In my opinion the best ride in the park is the Haunted Mansion. Which requires a certain mood to be set. The creepy old house on the edge of the river becomes the out of place house on the edge of a race track. This is a theme park not a carnival.
I grew up in Orlando, went weekly as a kid, have been many times after moving away when visiting over the past 20 years and always enjoyed it up until about 10 years ago. The demo of Rivers of America hurts my heart. For a stupid cars ride? Possible removal of Jim Henson's last project (and super cute show) is so sad. Up until about 5 years ago, I thought the rising prices were justified because (IMO) Disney delivered on service, cleanliness, fun, magic, etc...but now it seems they're just jerking us around. I JUST got used to Genie and didn't think it was that bad and now this change makes no sense other than to grab more money. Resort guests first. I agree with every aspect of this video and love how you point out that no wait, or low wait is necessary for some attractions - a relief, A/C break - and should not be viewed as a bad thing.
Yes, and I'm nodding in agreement about the low-wait and no-wait attractions are vital. Until Poseidon articulated that, it had never crossed my mind... and he's right. Tom Sawyer Island serves that purpose, and we never go to the Magic Kingdom without the respite of a visit to Disney's Carousel of Progress, and an occasional climb up the Swiss Family Robinson Treehouse.
Exactly. I love Muppets and Hall of Presidents for their shows, but also the glorious a/c break from the heat (went in June this year, was absolutely so miserable despite being in good physical shape, staying well hydrated and having portable fans, that we just ended up sitting in a corner to rest and wait for rain to come so it would cool us off even slightly. Imagine not having any short wait attractions to rest and cool off in...😑). I can't believe Disney doesn't understand the value in that. No one is going to pay their prices to come in and be miserable all day long in the heat, glued to phones and upset about everything. It will start to REALLY feel like a money grab and few will put up with that.
@@Ididntwantayoutubehandl I agree. This past week, filming at the Mexico attraction - mostly because it was a way to cool off on a hot day - but then being reminded of the IP-ing of the ride... ick. This isn't the Disney we grew up with, and loved. We went back and watched one of Poseidon's earlier videos, ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-b_4jzwOlqDE.html and the contrast with now... yikes. When we were outside the Mexico pavilion, the walkways around us were so empty, it was stunning. I'm hoping the low numbers send a message - loud and clear - to Disney execs. While there's a LOT to do, to recover from the damage done so far, I think it's possible. Expensive... but possible. Fingers crossed!
Won't removing the Frontierland River also make the area hotter? It's one of the hotter areas of the park. (Genuine question idk sht about thermodynamics).
Yes, water heats up and cools down more slowing than nearby land does. So, the areas around a body of water will tend to feel cooler, because the air over the water - such as the Rivers of America - really IS cooler. Per the National Weather Service, "Lake breezes develop when the land becomes warmer than the water. The warm air over land rises, and gets replaced by the relatively cool air which resides immediately above the lake surface."
I thought about making that point in the video, but yeah, it's going to trap heat when this becomes a concrete landscape. I find it so amusing how the core of Epcot was disparaged as a concrete wasteland, yet Disney actually made it so much worse and is so stagnant and hot.
A big problem is that disney is so focused on these typical "disney adults" that are completely absorbed by disney identity and iconography. And them now being a major marketing arm of the disney company, they basicly are disney's entire presence on social media and provide incredible amounts of free advertising for disney. They go completely crazy for everything that has an image of anything disney plastered on it because that is how they identify with the company. They influence what disney does since most of the feedback the disney company recieves comes from them. And they influence a lot of the rest of the public a lot as well. Plus disney millenials are the wallets that fund the parks at this point and most disney does is catered to them. Where they used to be much more focused on children, not adults. This has been very profitable for them in the short term. They are basicly still cashing in on the disney renaisanse generation that now have grown older and have lots of disposable income. In the long term though this will become a problem because as this generation grows old the generation that will replace them won't be anywhere near as large or dedicated to the disney brand as they where. Simply because they haven't done anything substantial to attach them to the brand as the millenials. Disney has gotten the most of their short time gains now and it seems that the lack of longterm thinking will start to catch up with them going forward. First slowly but as millenials grow older and move on more and more, disney will start feeling the lack of investment in children and their future nostalgia for disney over the past couple of decades.
I agree! I do think it’s important for the company to find a balance between IP that appeals to everyone, and original non IP attractions. Their NON ip attractions used to be their best, and would inspire so much creativity in children. Haunted Mansion, Pirates, the original Journey into Imagination, etc, those were the best attractions for a reason and many children grew up loving them.
@@alexandravalentina4854 agreed. Many of Disney's non IP attractions have become timeless classics. They were attractions that sold themselves by providing a fun and memorable experience. IP attractions on the other hand usually end up being dated in a few years after the hype surrounding the IP wears off.
I think Disney is slowly, VERY SLOWLY, starting to figure out that catering to specific niche groups is not working as a business model. Disney adults may be ever-present on RU-vid and social media, but they still represent a small portion of their customer base. Attendance is down because prices skyrocketed and overall quality - from themes to rides to meals to customer service - has plummeted. The vast majority of people still want that family-friendly, immersive, happiest place on Earth experience at a reasonable price.
To tie more into what you said, the “Disney Adult” crowd has turned originally non-IP attractions INTO recognizable IP (Pirates, Haunted Mansion, Carousel of Progress, Figment, etc) so that, even though these aren’t actually “big, recognizable IP’s”, they are treated and celebrated as such
I think you've really nailed the problem and articulated it so well! Genius to see that the dark rides have shifted from "cool I AM Snow White" to "Wow I recognize that scene from the movie". Experience versus witnessing! I would argue that the same thing happened in Deadpool and Wolverine where actual character development and plot motivation suffered because they were so busy shoving in cameos so audience members could gurgle and coo with recognition! It's also really hard to take any of these announcements seriously because the fiscal year at Disney ends in September so they've got to boost their stock price with excitement - since they can't do it with actual innovation and improvement. I think everything announced will be scaled back to almost nothing or a dreary Epcot office park extension! I am not regretting letting our passes go! Thanks for your thoughtful videos!
I do disagree a bit with Deadpool & Wolverine. I haven't felt that the Deadpool movies had the most engaging plots, but I also always viewed them as comedies. In that case, an abundance of cameos didn't bother me because they were often part of a joke, or when they weren't, they often felt earned (like Tatum really wanting a comic accurate version of Gambit to see some justice).
I wonder if the sudden burst of investment in Disneyland Paris is due to the potential new Universal Park that maybe being built in the UK. It is funny though that it's theorised that if given the go ahead the entire park could be constructed by 2030 but Disneyland Paris may not even have this new Lion King ride opened by then considering the current speed they've been building at in DLP. They announced the Frozen Ride/Area at Disneyland Paris in 2018 and it's not opening until 2026, obviously the pandemic caused issues but gives you a rough estimate of how it takes them to do anything. I'd rather support Efteling who (though at a much smaller scale) try to bring new attractions and things to do to their parks each year and seem to listen to their guests.
The strategy Disney has for Disneyland Paris baffles me. Disneyland Park hasn't gotten a new ride in 18 years (Buzz Lightyear Laser Blast) or additional ride in 29 years (Space Mountain). Walt Disney Studios/Adventure World does indeed need rides also, but what they are building does nothing for capacity. Avengers Campus only replaced rides, Frozen and Adventure Way will add one darkride and a flat ride (a rip off of the Efteling's Sirocco as well), with The Lion King also adding one ride. So, in a decade after the expansion announcement of the resort (read: WDS), Europe's #1 tourist destination, has gained a whopping three rides. If Universal UK is being built, they'll do in five years what Disney at this rate needs at least four decades for. I say: roll out the red carpet for Universal! It might finally give a kick up Disney butt.
Paris had the Olympics and it was an oppurtunity to revitalize the parisian resort. But Disney has wasted this once in a lifetime chance. At the Olympics I asked myself where is Disney? If they are wasting the olympics, I would expect that DLP will be forgotten at least until Bob Iger steps down.
I don't know how easily proprietary plans spread among executives, but I got the impression that Universal's new UK project is a relatively new pursuit, probably following the commitment to Las Vegas HHN and Frisco. Not that plans and ideas aren't considered long ahead of time, but I think that Disney is just trying to build out WDSP because even they recognize what an awful state it's in.
Also we should also point out that Universal takes advantage of the fact it was always built with the idea os ips in mind. The whole “ip, visit the world of cinema” concept runs on Universal’s veins, so when Universal builds parks solely beased on ips no one minds, but that’s not why Disneyland or Disney World was built, so is understandable that people find weird to see ips everywhere 17:48
I was mostly all in with the proposed Epcot changes but what we got was a total fail. I hate just about all the proposed stuff from D23 except Villiansland, it’s going to take forever to construct and not really adding much. Having just been to Fantasy Springs, everything built in the US parks seems uninspired.
The interesting thing with the Villains brand is that Disney doesn't actually know what to do with it. Like they have the superficial knowledge that people like them, but not the why. Despite this, I do think that the land will get built, if only to compete with Universal's monters land.
@@catvicddlm1884 totally. When I was at Fantasy Springs, I could see that being the model for villains world. Just swap out Snow White / Dragon rollercoaster for Arendale
@@catvicddlm1884 Yeah I like that they're going with more of a scary adult theme, than the "cuddly scary" Disney usually opts for. I can see the rest of Magic Kingdom maintaining mickey's not so scary for the little ones and ramping it up in for the adults in villain's land...hopefully fingers crossed
I just got back from my first trip to Disney World. Dinosaur was unironically one of my favorite rides at the park. Right behind Flight of Passage and Cosmic Rewind. I rode Dinosaur about six times and absolutely loved it. I loved the whole dinosaur themed area and I'm so sad to know I'll never be able to experience it again.
I'm sad too! Haven't been on dinosaur since 2017 because I didn't go back until 2022. By then I had my son who was too small to ride. I've been waiting for my son to be old enough to ride dinosaur, and now after my last trip this year they've announced it'll be removed. I don't know if my son will get to ride it, when he loves dinosaurs and that ride to me is classic and iconic. Sad. ☹️
I was waiting your video about this subject.👍 I’m an old (60+) and classic Disney fan. For me, PIXAR is not Disney, for example. Put all these brands (Marvels, Star Wars and so) at Hollywood Studios. Or in the already messy DCA. The park launched the Theming Nightmare Age! And thinking that Walt Disney invented a theme park exactly for being tired of the mess of visual information at those old carnival fairs!!! Disney should create new things for the Magic Kingdom following It’s original ideas! Walt Disney was smart enough to not tie any of the original lands of his first theme park, Disneyland, to any movie in particular. The rides could be related to some movies, but not the lands. It’s a safer way not to became outdated fast. They already ruined the fantastic Epcot Center from the 80’s. Now is the Magic Kingdom in jeopardy!!!!! They have enough land at WDW to build new things without eliminating some Walt Disney’s classic creations. It seems that the “Today Disney” doesn’t care or respects the real legacy of It’s once whole world beloved name! So sad!!! ☹️
Walt also understood and appreciated the value of adapting other people's work - when he bought the rights to Peter Pan, Mary Poppins, or 101 Dalmatians. These were not his original ideas either. Nor, for that matter, were Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella, etc. In the modern era, the Disney Company realized the value of certain studios and franchises - Pixar, Star Wars, Marvel, Avatar, Indiana Jones. First they bought the rights, then they realized it was more profitable just to acquire the company itself. (Walt had the same realization when he kicked himself for letting a third party run the Disneyland Hotel.) Walt's dislike of carnivals was NOT the "mess of visual information" but that the areas had no theming and were dirty. That's why Disneyland is credited as (one of) the first "theme park", rather than amusement park. So the ultra-immersive theming of Pandora, Cars Land, Galaxy's Edge, etc. is more likely to be up his alley than the lacklustre theming of Old Fantasyland or Tomorrowland. More immersive theming was always the Disney difference to Universal, but they are fast catching up thanks to Wizarding World. Lastly, Epcot Center was NOT at all what Walt imagined. We can't attach his name to it, no matter how nostalgic we are for Figment, Horizons, Maelstrom, and the rest of the defunct attractions of the '80s.
They seem incapable of understanding just how much they've ruined their reputation. In Walt's time, the company felt more like a cultivated garden, where every few years a new original film would come out, they'd slowly expand on Disneyland - But today, it's like an industrial sized tractor is now plowing through that garden, and haphazardly planting strawberries in the old carrot patch, because people like strawberries right? Right??
It's very disturbing to think about. It feels violating. Impersonating a dead person, forcing their likeness to spew lines. It's just like an AI deepfake, but even more real.
The IP vomit is infuriating. Imagineering is a misnomer. There's no imagination left in that company. It's truly sad. It's yet another piece of Americana that is dying.
I can’t believe how they’re destroying the history and traditions and the memory of Walt and everyone who conceived of the Disney Parks. Together with Liberty Square, Magic Kingdom's Frontierland was originally conceived as a chronological and geographical westward trip across America, with Frontierland roughly spanning from 1790 to 1880 .The rivers of America are a symbol of the importance of rivers played in American history. Even the Liberty Square Riverboat (soon to be removed) was one of Walt’s “weenies” for the Liberty Square area. Drawing guests into the land by seeing a majestic riverboat in the foreground. Removing it, removes the soul of the park. For what? A ride based on IP that no one really cares about any more? Walt once described Tom Sawyers island as the place that has all the things he wanted to do as a kid. Just another example of history and Walt’s legacy being slowly erased before our eyes.
Meanwhile they have the audcity to put Walt statues into places where they don't fit and are planning on doing a "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln" type animatronics show
You know, one of the reason Tokyo Disney is generally considered superior is that the Oriental Land Company only has TDR as a product, they don't have to counter failiures of the studio or the cost of Disney+, they just need to sell the resort and get people back with seasonal food and merch. I wonder if the parks would be better off if they were spun off into their own company that just lisenced the IP back from Disney the entertainment company and be left to focus on their own strength?
This is evidence of a wider problem in the corporate world: increasing stock price over everything. These ideas are more so for investors to believe the company is growing and that they should invest. It hasn’t really been about the consumer in quite a while
I keep pondering "will the next generation have any emotional attachment to Coco, Encanto, or Indiana Jones?" It just feels odd that Fantasy Springs was very well received and is a thematic IP driven land with rides, shops, and restaurants. I guess we will need to wait till 2030 when 'most' of this is 'completed'.
I don’t even think this generation has any emotional attachment to Indiana Jones. The last movie in the franchise bombed, and according to data, was apparently mostly watched by older generations.
I'm sure there’ll be a good amount of attachment, but I think a key issue here is just *how many* new properties/movies they're constantly rolling out in this era. It used to be that you got a new Disney animated film every year or two, maybe a new Pixar one every couple of years, too, but now it's pretty much endless, and it feels impossible for people to grow super attached to every one, yet they're just going to force more and more and more and more of them into the parks.
“Coco” and “Encanto” feel the closest to the Disney Renaissance of the modern Disney era, besides “Tangled”. So, those two properties make sense as attractions.
You have remember the Iger's park philosophy. Long waits are good because it give incentive to buy lightning lane, without those ride people can get on quickly more people in the shops while waiting for their que time. More IP means more opportunities to sell merch.
Eroding customer experience for profit without adding value. Disney now seems to have a "you have to come because we infiltrated your family with Disney+ when you weren't looking. Your children will hate you if you don't dump your lifesavings here, and...keep coming back for more" attitude.
I went to both Universal and Disney World this year and they had a whole section showing a model of Epic Unverse and it really blew me away, as opposed to Disney who had broken rides and $7 water bottles. Universal was significantly cheaper and much more quality than Disney.
We're annual passholders at both Disney and Universal, and I was about to argue that Disney has a more family-friendly, engaging feeling than Universal. But then I think about what EPCOT used to be, and what it is now, and so on. I can't help wondering if Universal is making bold steps in the direction of engaging visitors with unified theming, such as Epic Universe, while Disney is literally bulldozing the warm, personal elements that engaged and enthralled its visitors in the past.
And we have to remember Disney has four parks for the price of our annual pass so that price argument usually goes out the window with me, but I would like to see Universal have more relaxing things to do rather than screaming fast coaster😂
Very curious what drives Disney to make these decisions when all their movies, shows, and park updates have all been received negatively. The market that they’re catering to seems so small that the majority of the consumers just end up leaving or not caring…
I believe they are safely catering to their most loyal consumer base, while not considering the fact that even just a little bit of creativity and risk would draw in far more loyal fans and rebuilding brand trust
@@OBSDCC7That’s questionable. There are a lot of us loyal for decades customers who despise their current direction. I don’t know who they are focusing on anymore.
01:59 - very good insight. The Little Mermaid ride did the opposite and did not put the audience in the character's perspective, but just watched scenes from the movie. It felt uninspired. While riding the pirate ship over London still feels exciting and the start of the journey
Tom Sawyer's Island was always my FAVORITE place to go when i was young. As an autistic child, it was a safe-haven from the rest of the usually very overstimulating and loud park. It was a place to recharge and enjoy some caves before heading back out into the chaos. Im sadden to see it leave :/
People love to trot out Walt’s “Disneyland will never be completed” quote a lot when old attractions get gutted/demolished/reworked for new ones, but the thing about that is that Walt passed away just 11 years after Disneyland opened. Sure, for those 11 years, he and the imagineers were constantly innovating and replacing attractions that *weren’t* working as well with ones that did. They spent that time solidifying what direction they wanted to take the park. But now with Disney World over 50 years old and Disneyland pushing 70, we DO have plenty of attractions that have long since withstood the test of time, attractions people love and have deeply connected with for years. And sure, while attractions with problematic aspects like Splash Mountain might need to be reworked, attractions like Muppets (33 years old), Dinosaur (25 years), or Country Bears (53) are still popular and simply do not need replacing at this point. Replacing or reworking these attractions is simply an insult to both the people that created them and the people that have enjoyed them for all these years.
Disneyland should evolve and change, but the key word here is *evolve.* Replacing a classic, well loved attraction with a shallow IP based one just for the heck of it isn't innovative, but creatively bankrupt. Replacing the historic town center with a parking lot wouldn't been seen as innovative either.
Same thing with Mr. Toad's Wild Ride and 10,000 Leagues under the Sea. People's love of the rides have no bearing when product placement of newer IPs is on the horizon.
People often forget the rest of that quote from Walt: "It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world." I'm afraid WDI has no imagination left. Brand synergy won't allow it.
It could be that now that genres are more explored, people need to see specific examples of a property in a genre. For example, someone in the 60s may have enjoyed in a space themed hotel with ideas of new futuristic tech. But now at Disney, it would be a Star Wars property. People feel emotional attached to characters instead of the wonder of possibilities. Something that came to my mind, but could be wrong.
You're right. Disneyland was originally created to be a place to explore and adventure with deeply themed areas and food stalls and such. Now they just plaster branded shit everywhere and expect people to be immersed.
@feloniousbutterfly I went to Disney 15 years ago. And I already didn't have a desire to return but seeing the direction it's went, I100% don't want to. With how expensive it can be, I'd rather travel to a place I've never been than see characters from movies marketed to me
No you are exactly right..."The wonder of possibilities". Every Disney entertainment product should be driven by that vision. Not just the parks. That was the core of Walt's vision. The IP should be subsumed, compliment, and only incidental to this vision. That was, is, and should always be the driver of a Disney theme park...and beyond. Well said.
I just want disneyland to be good again man. I went frequently throughout the 2010s, ive seen the slow removal of all the cool small things that makes disney, disney. I miss paradise pier and the innovations. I just want good classic rides
The loss of Rivers of America physically hurts my heart; my wife and I got engaged in front of the castle then took a few ring photos for our families at the RoA walkway with the Liberty Belle behind us.
Disney sat idly by for many years and watched Universal start to innovate with both interesting rides and the theming (particularly their Potter stuff). All the sudden, they perked up and had some hits (Avatar Land) and misses (Much of the Star Wars stuff). Apart from that was the rebranding of some attractions and letting Epcot and DHS start to rot, in addition to closing some of the more beloved classic attractions. I think Epic Universe is a HUGE step forward for Universal and they are actually delivering what they are promising. This has put Disney in a hurry up mode and all the sudden you see a lot of artwork with very few details. Anyone saying Disney is not having a kneejerk reaction is in denial.
I'll even be honest on this: I don't think Pandora is all that great. It's visually nice, but after riding Flight of Passage once I really don't have much desire to wait on line for it that long again (decent ride, but not much more than that...kind of like Rise of the Resistance, sadly), and there's little about the land that makes me want to just mill around and hang out. I bet it looks better at night, but Animal Kingdom unfortunately remains mostly a half-day park at this stage, so I'm never there when it's dark...with the irony being that a lot of the rest of AK is a lot of fun to just hang out in and drink in some atmosphere!
Correct. All of these announcements are a panic move, a band-aid to inject short term newness into the parks to attempt to sway some enthusiasm away from Universal without fully considering the long-term ramifications. If Universal delivers on their promises, these Disney additions aren’t going to make any significant impact.
I can’t pretend that I’m passionate about Tom Sawyer Island, I’ve only gone a couple times and didn’t get a lot out of it (I’ll concede that if I’d experienced it when I was younger I probably would’ve enjoyed it more), but drying up the river just seems wrong. It’s such an iconic staple of the land, and I feel like everything is just going to look disjointed now. Walking through streets depicting the 1800s Wild West and then suddenly entering a section of the same land with modern cars is going to be jarring no matter how you spin it. The only parks announcement that got me excited was the villains land, so I’m really hoping that one doesn’t get its budget slashed to oblivion
I think that the island is more than just nostalgia though. It's true I did experience every trip to MK as a kid, but I also like how it's a tranquil and scenic respite from the rest of the park. I also like it's exploration aspect in the same way that I enjoy Camp Jurassic, which I suppose will still be around. Filling in the river is such a shame though, because I'm really not opposed to the idea of Cars in Magic Kingdom. I like how Disney enhanced and added so much to the river in Disneyland when they shortened it for Galaxy's Edge and if Cars were to go behind Thunder Mountain, I can see it only adding more scenery to MK if the Cars ride itself is not viewable from the river. Regardless of the utility or popularity of the island, I think it and the river are essential place making that are a huge part of what makes MK enjoyable.
Claiming an attraction is outdated is Disney"s contemporary way of saying "we're too cheap and unimaginative to update this attraction while preserving its main purpose, when we get some money we gonna plug one of our loser movies there to give them a relevance they never earned'.
Honestly the argument, “nobody cares about Tom Sawyer island and nobody even goes there,” is completely absurd due to the fact that, although they are right about the fact that very few adults go there, even I usually skip it, I still think it’s a hugely important landmark and so much of Frontierlands character is impacted by its presence. Although Walt said that the parks will never be finished I also believe that he had intended that the park of the future would still continue to use the same basic blueprint as the original park. Along with that I also believe that the rivers of America made the layout of Frontierland so much easier to navigate. When I look at the current area map I understand instantly how to get to where I want to go, but when I look at the new map I just see a ridiculous amount of winding paths that don’t seem to go anywhere. let me just put it this way, if you look at any other land you can see usually see one or two paths that lead you through the land or to a bigger, more open area of the land, but there really is just none of that here. although at the end of the day, the worst part truly is that, they're not just adding a bad new land but the they're destroying something that's truly special.
I have this vision that 10-15 years down the road, Jake Williams and his Bright Sun Films will be doing a bankrupt episode on the domestic Disney Parks. All that will be left of Walt's dream - will be the Disney+ streaming service and maybe some withering film franchises. So very sad. (and on a personal note - there was absolutely NO REASON for a Toy Story 4 - or the future, Toy Story 5)
Always appreciate your perspective on the parks, even though I am about 50/50 on the same wavelength of you. One note I have is I do think there is a bit of a disconnect on your completely valid criticisms and actual consumer sentiment. An example of this is you predicting future movies like Moana 2, Toy Story 5, and Mufasa not being successful. There is a near 0% chance of them not being incredibly successful, even if they aren’t critically acclaimed. I also see a bit of this disconnect with Dino Land in AK. I agree that there are interesting things there, and totally agree with your thoughts on what is replacing it, but very few people really seek out Dino Land, and updating that area to something more modern is very much needed. I have more thoughts, but this comment is likely already too long for a YT comment lol. Keep up with the vids. I always enjoy them whether I agree or not.
I've spent the summer going to any regional amusement parks which are within "driving" distance and it has been an absolute joy. Most of them understand their history and legacy, and have realistic expectations for attendance. They realize that a 75+ year old haunted house has its own quirky standalone charm that they shouldn't mess with if at all possible. I don't trust modern Disney to not tear down the three World's Fair attractions and replace them with an IP tie-in. When your consumers don't believe you won't mess with some of the last direct links to Walt himself, that should be a massive red flag that the company has lost consumer trust.
Jenny Nicholson said it best in her video on the Star Wars hotel (definitely worth the watch). Corporate doesn't care if things are bland and empty, they want money, so why spend money; heck, long lines means the more they can charge for the FastPass. From Jenny: “The FastPass system used to be free, now it costs and it doesn't include every ride anymore, the good rides are a la carte, you have to buy those separately. Meanwhile, lines keep getting longer and longer, because now that Disney can monetize long lines, corporate actually wants them to be long. The FastPasses actually have variable pricing, which are updated live in the app; so the longer the lines are the more they can charge. And of course they oversell the FastPasses, because now they have an incentive to do so, so those lines are even actually short anymore. They fire all the atmosphere entertainment and close all the little diversions, because they’d rather everybody just pile into those lines, because the longer the lines, the more they can charge. Why build new rides? Why increase capacity? It’s actually better for your bottom lines if you don’t anymore.”
I'm a life long Disney fan and it hurts to say this. But I might officially renounce them at this point after these horrible announcements. It can't believe just how tone deaf and stupid the leadership is now. And you can't talk about these things online because you get so many insane cool aid drinking DIsney adults saying "good, shorter lines for me!" Just horrible.
I think talking about them is so very powerful. They were unsure of where to put the Monster's coaster, but after the uproar over Muppets it's all but confirmed that it won't be replacing it. Although I do think ROA is a goner...they might consider shortening it instead of getting rid of it completely.
Seems like a lot of AI-generated concept art for attractions, which is extremely alarming considering that Disney attractions were initially (and some still are) considered active art installations.
The delineation of themes and missions between the WDW parks is so thin at this point that there are really just four parks with the shared theme of "DISNEY"
So many original rides have been changed or destroyed. It really feels like it won't stop until everything original is gone. We don't need movie characters shoved down our throats to be entertained. Being creative and original is an appeal itself. Which is why other parks such as Six Flags, Universal, etc. Tended to rely heavily on IP because they couldn't compete with the originality. But, it seems Disney saw this as a message of, "If we don't produce Encanto or Frozen appeal we'll lose everybody" The whole expression "Evil Mouse" is so wrong. They literally have Mickey jailed. Give Eisner this, at least he knew how to expand Mickey - kids now a days barely know who he is unless you have dedicated parents willing to showcase all the older cartoons and media. The company put him on a shelf like an artifact they're scared to touch, and so they run with everyone else. Its such a disappointment
At least Six Flags is honest about what they are, they focus on Thrill rides and the IPs are just set dressing so you know what Coaster you are on. Disney has the audacity to give us mediocre IP based rides and then turn around and call it "Immersive".
@@shinyagumon7015 Exactly! And hopefully my previous comment doesn't come across as "trashing" other theme parks. Cause of course not! Its just those parks like Six Flags and Universal know the IPs are really what holds them together. But I absolutely agree with your comment. Lazily throwing a theme on a previously established ride is far too lazy.
I've seen so many people blindly excited for the D23 announcements and I don't get it. Nothing they said is exciting and it's a clear reaction to Epic Universe. The points you made of nothing making sense in the lands proves they don't care about that, they just throw characters in their parks because people like them and then trash the park cohesion.
I'm ok with Tropical Americas replacing Dinoland. IF and only IF, it also includes real animals from the tropical Americas like a jaguar, and capybaras. Otherwise, what's the freaking point!? When was the last time ANIMAL Kingdom actually got a new animal exhibit?
Another big issue is time. Disney waits for an IP to be over whelming popular before they even think of a ride, add in their normally slow construction and you get a ride based on an IP that was popular a decade ago. By the time the rides are done, most the people who grew up with it are already in their 20's or 30's.
2017 - Disney announces Avenger's Campus during the height of Marvel. 2022- Avenger's Campus opens. Iron Man dead. Black Widow dead. Black Panther dead. Captain America gone. Marvel phase four tanks. Excellent synergy, Disney.
@@hamiltoncox7651 To add on, Disney announces Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind. 2022 - Cosmic Rewind opens as the Guardian's trilogy comes to an end the year after.
