It's hard to tell. I haven't had my ears professionally calibrated so my testing apparatus isn't that great. Also, I notice a larger difference between the sound in each of my ears than I do from the change in this geometry of the speaker. At one point I was convinced that the bass sounded better and the high hissing was nicely mitigated. Upon further testing in the 4am silence of my office that effect seemed to disappear. One thing is for sure: The passive noise cancellation is GREAT! Working in a room with printer fan noise sucks. I put these on and I can hardly hear that background noise. Because the sound is not contaminated by background noise I think the modification is a night and day improvement. Unless you listen to your headphones in a silent room, this is definitely a worthwhile project.
It occurs to me that I answered the wrong question. yes, the density and thickness of the cup wall is important, but not as important as getting the chamber fully sealed. I've instead opted to leave the gaps unsealed thus losing some noise isolation but gaining some of the benefits of a ported cabinet. To a small degree. There isn't a lot of air flow through the cracks. For wall thickness/density to really matter you would be dealing with a fully sealed cabinet.
@@DesignPrototypeTest Thanks Matt. Also check out HexiBase he makes 3d printed enclosures for speakers and thats where I pulled that question if it would affect if it was thicker and heavier compared to the stock soundstage. Also my current setup is a DT770 Pro 80ohm with a Schiit magni 3 amp and it has amazing Passive Noise cancellation but I'd prefer a tad bit more and thought your project was a great idea. Hope you have a great day!
This is great ! You know what would be fully amazing ? If you reached out to RU-vidr @hexabase and do a collaboration to make your design a tuned reflex system ♥️
@@DesignPrototypeTestI know I’m a few years late but just wanted to ask if you notice a tuning effect when using the cotton…meaning as with a sealed cabinet speaker poly fill (or cotton) can increase a cabinet volume by 30 percent volume give or take….,and as such would greatly effect bass response based on the driver specs for VAS and SPL….just curious to see if this acted like a full scale speaker on planar driver since they are usually used solely for open air mids and highs ……great project by the way.
I just reassembled my T50RP with the printed parts. I´m really into great sound but never bothered with tinkering so I´m really amazed by the VERY positive changes in sound performance. Thank you very much.
It's really cool to see you playing with this!! I gotta say, there is a reason all the top headphones are open backed. It reduces distortion and cavity resonances. It's more true and accurate. As ears are on the inside of the headphone you won't hear the sound out the back, unlike the sound leakage from a ported speaker. A closed headphone has two advantages. 1) Isolation. 2) Deep bass felt as pressure, otherwise unnoticed as air vibration.
A closed box is better than a tuned one, but the volume has to be much larger. I would use polyester fiber fill instead of cotton balls. You could make the volume even larger, like princess Lea hair buns, add a Fiio 5 and really drive them. Rename them to the "Honey I can't hear you" headphones 😂 😂 😂
Agree, I tried lots of planar magnetic headphones priced upwards of 500 bux and my cheap ass 60 bux planar magnetic ones with neodymium magnets sound just as awesome!
I’m gonna go ahead and call you out on your title. Lol. I would argue that you didn’t put $1500 worth of tech into them, as the only change you made to the hardware was changing the cable. Maybe you put $1500 worth of R&D into them? I suppose that depends on what you value your time at. And without knowing exactly what’s in those other headphones, I suspect/hope there might be an up charge for exotic materials or advanced testing processes. I kind of see it as a guy into car audio goes out and buys a super expensive sub woofer and drops it in a crappy box and it sounds like crap vs a guy that goes out and buys a budget speaker, but builds a nice tuned box and sets it up correctly. The nice speaker with all the technology sounds like crap because an appropriate amount of thought wasn’t put into its enclosure.
This is all assuming that $1500 headphones are actually worth the $1500 that’s being charged for them and it’s not all just marketing/name brand fluff for people who don’t know better.
As an owner of these headphones I can assure anyone that these drivers are not a $1500 tech. They aren't even $300 tech. They're an outdated $200 tech. $150 Sennheiser headphones sound better. The nice thing about the design is that it's very robust and comfy. The sound is good enough for monitoring your instrument, but they lack the displacement of Hifiman. Seriously, you might as well say that your earbuds have $1500 tech because some expensive headphones have a conventional driver. If you want good sound in a robust shell, get Beyerdynamic and use autoEQ
You could probably stand the piece at 45deg to the bed, which might eliminate the need for support as well as have the layers be at 45deg to the piece.
Good point. I don't know why I didn't think to play with print orientation when I did this project. At first glance I think your idea is superior to the way I did it. Thanks for the comment.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I watch all the Slant3D videos, the guy infected me with the "stand it at 45deg" idea. Tried it out for some electronic enclosures, definitely has lots of benefits.
As someone who would have to buy them first, what's the point of buying the T50 and printing the shell instead of buying the T40? As far as I understand it, the T40 should be the same hardware with a closed shell, for basically the same price. Obviously with 3D printing there is the individualisation factor, but soundwise there shouldn't be a difference? I guess the cotton could be placed in the T40s shell as well.
In fact they seem to be less expensive by ~$15 depending on where you purchase them. They seem to be the same mold as the T-50 but without the cutouts (AKA ports). The stock cup/cabinet design does not have much room to hold the anti-reflectance foam or act as a chamber to accentuate the bass sound. The wall of the stock cups is pretty thin. Also, there is the flanged part which holds the ear padding. It has many holes which I showed at the 8:25 mark. The largest benefit of the DIY is the passive noise isolation. I see no reason to think the T40 would accomplish this. But definitely get it because it's going to have the same PM speakers and it's less expensive.
Pretty clickbaity title, you didn't make headphones, you just printed new cups, also you have not at all provided any objective frequency analysis so it's unsure they even sound better
Keeping me honest? Or trying to convince me to make thumbnails that nobody will click on? I'm not seeing a lot of haters these days, so I'm going to assume the former. I highly doubt you would have clicked to watch "3D printed Headphone earcups for bargain Planar Magnetic drivers." So, I'll take the chastising in exchange for a successful video. At least I didn't call it "Headphone manufacturers HATE THIS one 3D print!!! You won't believe your ears!"
"Unsure they sound better" You're quite the gentleman I would have said he turn an open-back into a close-back, which lowered resolution and screwed any tonal balance the headphone may have before But hey more bass, more better (nevermind the fact that EQ is better and free)
This is great ! You know what would be fully amazing ? If you reached out to RU-vidr and professional audio engineer @HexiBase and do a collaboration to make your design a tuned reflex system ♥️
vented enclosures have much higher internal pressures. the sound difference is an effect of the added port area the efficiency is the effect of the delayed 1/2 sign wave getting redirected to the user via the port. the bandwidth is the effect of the the driver + the chamber volume & the Port + chamber volume. both are controlled by the total cone displacement. the chamber volume is an air spring in a vented enclosure near tuning freq the port flow pulls in air and stiffens this spring. the pressures in a tuned vented box near tuning freq can be 5~50x or higher. (total system power and speaker BL are limiting fuctions) but lets pull in "HexiBase" and have him design a better enclosure for that planar speaker. I have a pair of the head phones and can make a test chamber quick to do some TS prms i will update this with them shortly (I test most speakers with added mass but for this type a known chamber volume is better) i have built a few thousand custom speaker boxes and more then a few hundred Custom speakers in my lifetime, Granted most the stuff I have done only applies to car audio, the same concepts apply to headphones.
my user is my G M your welcome to hit me up any time I have a lot of audio equipment for testing and tuning. my setup is very close to HexiBase. I have test mic's and flat response gear i can tune the ear cups to the drivers and add a few little things to tune the drivers electrical response as well. I'm a big fan of passive crossovers and internal response tuning i don't get to do it often because of the power levels I mess around at (20Kw plus) so for me is all digtal DSP gear.
@9:02 bad explanation. Ported cabinets dont really work in the way that you explain. Your are describing an open baffle design vs sealed, which is also a more appropriate way to describe your open backed vs closed back headphones. A Port only behaves in the way you described at frequencies below the port tuning, which is also usually below the lowest frequency the driver / cabinet combination is designed to play. at higher frequencies far above the ports tuning the port does largely nothing other than unwanted pipe resonances and leaking some sound that has reflected around inside of the cabinet. Close to the ports tuning frequency is where things get a bit more interesting where the "Plug" of air inside the port will start to resonate with the air volume inside the cabinet (similar to blowing over the top of a bottle) this increases the SPL at these frequencies, though causes a phase lag. A ported cabinet design is used to have more bass for a given driver & cabinet size at the expense of the phase, transient response and complexity.
In my opinion the title is a tad misleading, but I love the content! Would be really cool to experiment with different shapes of the cups, I wonder whether it makes a difference
Really cool video, I had a sort of similar project a while ago! If you are interested in ever making a version with a connector you can find companies that sell high quality audio cables and connectors with data sheets and measurements for only a few dollars which is nice for projects like these. It's fine to just chop up an old cable and solder it but you could get a low profile connector with known dimensions, attenuation, etc. Also really good idea putting the cotton in the back as it should also help reduce any resonance from the plastic.
I think I would’ve gone with a much different plastic than PLA. It’s a little too soft. Most headphones are going to be made out of polycarbonate. I would’ve printed a few tests and see which one had the click Iest thick sound. Just like any other speaker you want a nice dense thick board so it’s also kind of strange that you decided to not do a solid infill. That hollow loose infill isn’t gonna be very beneficial to the sound quality. Maybe even something with carbon just to kind of give it a little density
the eco filament is really interesting. only thing is that is seems softer than regular pla, a bit more towards toffee or nylon. which might prove to be problematic mechanically for certain other types of projects. Wheras other pla+ filaments with synthetic additives can get stiffer. And have better characteristics than pure 100% PLA. but at the cost to the environment! because additives are bad! wish they could find in the future some good and better natural materials to use as additives. and mix in. but maybe that would then be contrary to the fast biodegradability time frame. which they are also aiming for.
I don't believe you that they sould better. You should make a follow up video with "ears on a stand" with these new headphones and compare them with the old construction by displaying the frequency response curves and comparing them. Then also play us what the "ears" microphones recorded.
I would say the original headphone looks to be more of a "freeair" design.... ported is usually ported into listening cavety to accentuate bass response... didnt see it posted yet..... cool project
You are very kind. I wish everyone who disagreed was as gracious. In the end I would say this project was 99% style/aesthetic improvement and 1% acoustic improvement. In my opinion the closed back cups do sound ever so slightly better as the bass is a slightly amplified and the highs are attenuated.
I attempted to make these before (the 3d printed alpha dogs), but gave up after a few tweaks to the headphones that made them a joy to listen to. New Earpads are a must for this headphones. After modding, I found that I really disliked it being totally closed.. found it to be too "closed" and I could hear the reflections of the sound at the back of the earphones which made it abit echoy and representative of listening to music in a small box even after adding foam to the back plane. I preferred covering 2 of the 4 slots inside the headphone which helps tune down the bass and bring out the other frequencies. Also, really not sure why you would want to print this when you can get the R40RP, which is essentially what the closed version of the headphone is.
Great video Matt, I love these really bespoke and practical uses of 3D printing. I am not sure if you covered how you anchored the cable, so that an accidental yank doesn't rip it out, would like to know what you did. :)
Good question. I forgot to mention that detail. I used the old tired-and-true method of tying a knot in the cord. Then I heated the knot with a lighter to set the tight bends into the insulating rubber cord. I thought about using zipties, but those wires are so fine that I judged I would not be putting too much stress on them using the knot technique. The red cloth covered wires on the top of the cups come stock tied in knots. Also, the main cord is very thick and tough. I could have figured out some sort of strain relief, but I opted for simplicity. While some may be able to break or fatigue it, I'm confident it will last the test of time under my typical use.
Awesome video. Always appreciate the detail you go into in these design vids. Unfortunately for me I'm happy with my current headphones so I don't need to get these to tinker, haha.
Good job! I'm curious to know why you didn't use a resin printer for this particular project. Seems like it might have allowed you to use more of the original parts.
I prefer to work with FDM. Less messy and actually stronger in the XY printing plane. So I guess I chose function over form. Maybe I should revisit the project with pure aensthetics in mind. That design of course would be printed on a resin printer.
I'm doing my own entire headset design from scratch to house typical 40mm drivers (for now). I'm glad that I've predicted some of the troublesome things that you've run into. Fortunately I've already had a workarounds, that means I'm doing something good. The designs look cool in Fusion but I'm sure it's going to be a nightmare for me once the printing actually starts. I have zero 3D printing experience, never printed PETG and my printer is an ancient frankensteined Anycubic i3 that I got from a friend for 50 bucks that I had to build my own version of Marlin for it. I'm going to need ALL the luck.
Living up to your channel name in this video :) I'd never heard of planar magnetic before, but now I'm curious what they sound like. I can't imagine anything being better than my trusty KRK KNS-8400's though.
$1,500 tech. inside ??? Ha! No matter how hard it is, this is an improved version of the T50RP, which has a huge number of competitors at a price of up to $500. What does it say about Audeze LCD or top Hifiman?. They easily outplay these simple headphones.
If the greatest advantage of this modification is the cups being sealed, why not just seal the ports in the original design? I'm seriously thinking about doing this build, but free time is not one of my luxuries, so if there's a way to save time and headaches doing a build like this, I would be even more eager to get started. Thanks for a great video!!
Apparently Fostex does offer a sealed version, but their cabinet is the exact same size. Increased cabinet size and that cotton ball anti-reflectance are supposed to help.
Thanks for your reply. Would be interesting to comparing the difference both with clogging up the holes, your version and with the closed back version.
Sorry to ask a dumb question, but I can't seem to find a part in the video where you mention what is wrong with them, by the end I gather it's the cup shape (and possibly the semi open back) that is the problem with these headphones. It would have been great to help a novice like me understand exactly what the issue is and how you are fixing it. either way seems like a fun project and I needed some new headphones so why not print some :D I'm waiting as well for some cushions to sail over the sea.
There is nothing wrong with the stock headphones. They sound great, and were a substantial upgrade to my old headphones. Doing this project I increased the Bass response a little, turned town the Highs and most importantly made them into a passive noise reducing headphones. Kind of like hearing protection with speaker inside of them. My perception is an overall improvement of like 10% to the stock headphones.
Great video! I would have print the caps up side down for better surface finishing on the visible side, more support and printing time but that's only once:)
absolutely no headphones are worth 1,500$....... just cuz some one might be greedy enough to ask that price, and some one might be stupid enough to pay it...... in no way means thats what they are worth....... even 150$ is pretty much a scam. that being said..... your design looks WAY better then the original.
Matt, I love what you do. I just discovered your channel today. Your technique and process is great even if I’m designing something completely different. My only curiosity is why you’re using Sketchup vs a parametric modeling software like Fusion360 or Solidworks. You can get a free personal license for Fusion360. I was a diehard Sketchup user and finally made the jump and overcame the learning curve to never look back.
I can guarantee that the headphones you showed in the video, the Hifiman Arya, are better than the ones you made. Not 10x, but I'd surely prefer them over yours. There is a reason that modded T50RPs like the ZMF Ori or the Mr. Speakers Alpha Dog went for between 600 and 800, and that's because that's what they are worth.
Wierd thing about the tiny orange cord...can you even get enough power without balanced to run those planars with a dap? They're rather hard to push on my amps as is.
@Design Prototype Test maybe you will do the next tutorial on how to solve my problem? Forming an insert for the box, in your case would be those headphones. I was thinking first on direct print it but as it will have to survive hiking and the transceiver will be inside with some accessories I ended up with the idea of heat forming EVA foam.
For such a small part I think it's entirely possible to make a DIY EVA foam mold. Thank you for the great Idea. If I do this in a video and I forget to credit you please make sure you comment so that I can acknowledge your contribution. One thing is that EVA foam is probably not appropriate for this application because the smooth surface and closed cell property is reflective to sound waves. Notice that Urethane open cell foam is typically used for acoustic treatments.
@@DesignPrototypeTest I think there was a misunderstanding. I was looking for making an insert for the box to make sure that things inside won't get loose (like a box insert dividers do) but precisely for the items, I want to put them in. There is plenty of EVA cases that's why this material gets my attention. I have seen many cases that I could use, but there will be always issued with loose things inside, and such an insert should protect expensive equipment from impact. The easiest way would be making dice and punch from aluminium or vacuum form, but that's for mass production. I'm looking for something that I will do once or maybe a couple times with modular blocks just in case my set of equipment will change. So once again the plan is to buy an EVA case (i.e. hard drive case or lunchbox) from Amazon and heat from an insert for items to put inside (transceiver, battery/power bank, cables divider, CW key, keyer, DSP processor, an antenna).
5:48 that only proves how much we were poisoned as kids without anyone awareness. I remember toy soldiers that smell for months before those vapours are gone.
:) Jeeze, you may be right. I know that scent. I still can't place it. I would really like to know the cocktail they are using in this filament. I did grow up in a smaller town, so I think that smell is like wood pulp, and not something awful like bitumen/asphalt.
Hi thanks for your cool lesson, So obviously I am now shopping for some Fostex headphones but I have heard that the version 3's need high powered Dac's to get any volume out of them, How have you found them? I take it from what I have heard that they are not going to produce much sound out of a mobile device? Would love to hear you perspective on this thanks.
My computer at full volume is where I would comfortably listen to them. My wife was like "This is so loud." I purchased a headphone amp, and it is nicer having the extra volume. My Phone does not have a 3.5mm jack.
They get loud enough with a phone but you don’t get the bass slam you’d get with a dedicated DAC/AMP. Even very efficient IEMs can sound better and fuller with a more powerful amp. BTW, I don’t listen at very loud levels and with my mobile devices the Fostex just sounds meh to me. That’s the down side to moving to better headphones, it will expose weaknesses in the other parts of your sound system.
cool vid. a few things that might be worth thinking about. thicker pads will makethe sound better but cheap ones with cheap memory foam get hot real quick. lookat the Brainwave HM5 pads, there not much more and are a lot better. Sure 1540 are the go to pad but are quite a bit more the stock cable is waek and tend to brake so having it fixed might be an issue along the line it might be worth having a look at this, it will be worht its weight in gold for any futre modding- www.head-fi.org/threads/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements.618659/ also get a good dac/amp. they really need it! a phone will get it lould but it will not give the driver power to thump out the bass or do dynamic. the ifi zen dac is a good cheapish amo/dac combo but there are meny others. finally have a look at Mr spreakers alphdogs. they are some of the best t50 mods and are 3D printed. you can find all you need hear_ www.head-fi.org/threads/open-alpha-t50-3d-printed-headphone-project-from-mrspeakers.825868/ . it would be intresting to see how yours stack up.
Did you consider obtaining a frequency characteristic of them, and using it in a DSP between the source and the headphones? Maybe REW can also work with headphones?
I don't have the necessary testing equipment for such. To my ear the frequency response is mostly unchanged but the isolation from ambient room noises is a drastic improvement.
Cool concept, though my ears are not sensitive to really notice the difference between cheap and expensive headphones to the point where it would be a waste so going to pass on this project
Combination I think the video could’ve been better with about 10 minutes of chattiness cut out. It’s thorough but it’s a little bit too much! Where we just don’t need it. Just for instance, instead of saying something like” the last thing I need to do is order some padded ear cups, but they’re coming from China and they won’t be here in time” Instead, we get like three minutes of explaining that things take a long time to ship from China, duh, how much the shipping costs, unimportant, etc. etc.
And guess what, i can make replica of that "including electronics" under 10 dollers... 😂😂😂 .... you can test me though, just give me 10$ and i will put video of making it with total cost....😅
I really doubt these are gonna perform very well the alpha dogs had a lot of r&d time put into them to produce that level of performance! I do like the ease of printing! The alphas are a pain to print! I’m planning to give them a try and get some frequency response measurements to see what’s actually going on! I love the idea! It’s the whole reason I bought a 3D printer to begin with! BUT! It was a struggle to watch. The lack of knowledge on the subject, made me wanna punch the screen! No 2 headphones are equal! Planar or not! Saying“planar is planar” is just dumb!
Let me know the results of your testing. I would love to see the data. After many months of use and switching back and forth between a stock set of the headphones and my 3D printed ones, I can't tell a difference with my ears. As I perceive it, all I succeed in doing is making them look better b/c I don't like the look of the stock design.
