I increasingly use Lumenzia for luminosity masking. Just today I rescued an image from a few years ago by adding Orton effect but masking out the foreground element I wanted to keep sharp. My current process is to adjust exposure, white balance, color adjustments, and lens corrections in LR. Then Photoshop to dodge and burn via luminosity masks, sharpening if warranted, edge patrol and distraction removal; then Orton effect if desired. Then back to LR to crop and vignette. Until two months ago I only used PS for focus/exposure stacking and cleanup. Now I'm a blended processor. I just bought Topaz DeNoise, also. That will be my program for noise removal before I do anything else, if needed. I'm a former painter, so doing all this adjustment may sound like work to some but I find it fun.
I really like your pragmatic approach, which seems to be driven more by the ends than the means. Which is to say that you use the tools your are comfortable with to get the results you want. Sure, there are plenty of other great tools available that can achieve similar results in different ways, but their selection is a technical (or sometimes financial) choice, not artistic. I haven’t found another tool that has a feature as powerful as content aware fill, but it’s just a matter of time before others copy it, although there is a LOT of engineering magic behind it.
I use PS for exactly the same things, plus special effects. I also used it for sky replacement but I now use Luminar 4 which usually does a better job in a fraction of the time and effort (Luminar's masking is impeccable). Nigel, there is nothing wrong with replacing a sky or otherwise manipulating a photo -- as long as you make it clear that the result is such, that it is a composite and not a single-shot photograph. I travel frequently with my sons' Scout troop and see many wonderful locations mid-day with horrible lighting. I still photograph them because I'll not have another chance. Some of these I manipulate with sky replacement and more to create beautiful art. Just recently, one of my best-ever works was a stunner I made from boring mid-day photo of a popular waterfall that I turned into a truly jaw-dropping image. I've disclosed to everyone what I've done and I've gotten no complaints, but only inquiries about the software and techniques I used. Honestly, I think I get more respect and compliments for my manipulations than I do for my photography.
Nik Collection, at least in its old an free of charge version, integrates as well with Lightroom as it does with Photoshop. The only advantage of PS comes into play if you need layers to soften or blend the effect that Nik has created. As for the balance LR/PS, in my case it's even as high as about 99/1. But the reasons for taking the extra steps in PS are exactly those you've pointed out in your video, except for the Nik filters as I've mentioned.
I guess I'm one of the few who hadn't heard of the Orten effect. Would enjoy seeing more, especially any details about how you control the range of highlights selected for your mask. Very nice video. Thank you for doing it.
I guess the % of usage depends on how well you know the software, and how well you take your shots. PS can do way more than LR, but not every image needs it. I noticed that the better your capture is, the less PS is needed, unless you really want to go artistic. But if your image isn't perfect, well, PS can be way more helpful. Sharpening, luminosity masks, color grading, dodging and burning, correcting fringes, merging images, correcting panoramas, artistic effects, oorton, noise reduction... The list could continue in favor of PS. But at the end of the day, it's everybody's individual preference. And if the image will have crappy composition, no software will help.
I believe NIK is underrated. I’ve been a user for 8-10 years. Most of my work is design and layout. I work a lot with stock photos and/or the occasional photo shoot. NIK plug-ins give me the extra boost I need and what I love about it is I can preview what I’m getting and save it to separate composited layer. Thanks for mentioning NIK in this video.
Superb........ Interesting video as always Nigel. I use ACR and PS much more than Lr because I feel I have more fine control and can make more fine adjustment layers and I have options with blending methods/layer masks etc.
For your focus stacking I'm sure you can edit the mask layer to remove those areas that photoshop has mistaken for foreground/background. Selecting the mask within the layer should allow this to my understanding as it does for other masks, should speed things up!
I appreciate your honesty about only 5-10% going to Photoshop (of course, it can very effective there), but for me it's all Lightroom for all the rest, too. Big thanks!
Nigel, you consistently produce videos that I find inspiring and informative. Thanks for all the hard work and thought you put into them. Yes please more on achieving the Orton Effect!
The spot removal tool in Lightroom is really only useful for removing dust spots. Being a mirrorless shooter, it’s very useful for me. I’d like to see an expanded Orton Effect video. Sounds interesting.
I regularly watch your programmes. Regarding the current video - Photoshop over Lightroom - regarding cloning in Photoshop. I use a vey simple three step method on a Mac in Photoshop to clone out an object is - Lasso tool - Shift + F5 and in one click it will disappear.
About the only few things I find that I need PS for is spot removal (anything more than dust spots, which LR handles reasonably well but not always), exposure blending and focus stacking. Most other stuff can be be done in modern versions of Lightroom. The one thing about the color space is that you can configure Camera RAW for a specific color space (say ProPhoto RGB or Adobe RGB) and it can be told to use that specific color space / settings each time you launch it, so I don't think that that is a critical component -- although I think it does default to just Adobe RGB and not ProPhoto RGB like LR does, out of the box).
Any chance you can do a couple of videos covering 1) the best in camera setting to produce the best image sizes to print 2) the setting in camera & Lightroom to produce best pano prints? Please!!
I've watched bits and pieces on youtube for years but never bothered creating an account. Your vids are so good that I created one just to subscribe to watch tips and tricks/advice of yours! thanks and keep em coming
I like the Orton effect. I can’t recall which you tuber method I chose but it works. If I am honest I probably use it in a rather heavy handed way for most people’s taste. Net, yes a video would be nice, Nigel
Just got lightroom and I'm actually shocked at how bad the clone/heal for spot removal is. I scan my dad's old slides and fly through the touching up with Canon DPP in no time, and it does a really good job at healing and removing cables, and so simple to use. Not tried photoshop yet but will have to give that a go.
All they need to do to bridge is change the zoom function from the little “zoom window” to the full image and it with raw would be the same as Lightroom, the only reason I use light room is for the better zoom function
I select the photo I want to edit in in Bridge then open it up in raw to that essentially has everything that Lightroom has, then I'll open my image as a smart object into Photoshop to do further editing. Having opened my image as a smart object I'm able to back into ACR and work on the raw file.
Good to know that you're using Photoshop for the same kind of things that I do. I just did a work through on your Orton effect process and it worked 😁 I've been finding these tutorials of yours very useful. Lots of videos doing similar things on RU-vid but I prefer to see the Danson versions because I follow you anyway. Would also love see a closer look at Orton. Thanks for keeping me sane during lockdown.
I agree that Lightroom offers much of the image editing capability of Photoshop for single-layer edits and, in many cases provides a superior user interface. But, while others find Lightroom's masking tools useful, they've always felt awkward, slow, & imprecise in my hand. (Definitely a subjective assessment.) So the workflow I use divides the image edits into two classes: Global manipulations that apply across the entirety of the original raw dataset I perform in Lightroom. Local manipulations that apply only to specific regions of an image I execute in Photoshop. Like you do with the Nik filter set, I access the Topaz suite through Photoshop as well, always to a separate layer so I can blend, mask, or revise those functions' outputs in forming the final image. Thanks for your presentation. Though I lean on Photoshop more than do you, it's educational to hear about how other photographers come to engage the workflows they've chosen. It also serves to occasionally challenge the rationale behind my own stylistic choices least the answer one day be the awful "because that's how I always do it." Cheers.
I’ve been wanting to ask you for ages whether you use photoshop or not, and now I know! I would definitely be interested in a separate video on the Orton effect - looks like it might be good for waterfalls! Love your work as always Nigel.
I'm an avid viewer and working my way through your Masterclass. I find Lightroom pretty intuitive and with reading and watching guides (you at the top of the list) my knowledge of LR is growing - and I see improvements in my photos. But PS, I find it really hard work, not something that is easily self taught. You make it look easy, but when I open PS its like being lost in a wash of icon trays and widgets! I know that I am running out of time because I will need to use it eventually for focus stacking and the content aware feature does look cool compared to LR's rather lumpy effort. Great video. Would be interesting to know if you would consider a PS focused course?
Fascinating to see your approach to creating the Orton Effect. Never seen that method before. Seems to create a more natural result. Would love to see a separate video on this as you suggest.
You can set your prefs for ProPhoto RGB as default and if you're going to print you had better save a copy in cmyk with curves to match the printer or print shop you are going to use.
I use to edit with LR the mostly of the photos if the photos are for web, FB, instgm. When I need to edit for printing, or a better work I use PS with luminosity masks and others.
Just found your series of videos. I find them helpful and easy to follow. Trying out your techniques to help improve mine. Interesting LR vs PS video too. Cheers
I use that Silver Efex quite often. But I change the blend mode to luminosity instead of having a B&W image. It really changes the feel of your images. Adds drama.
Never heard of the Orton effect before this video so thank you, and yes more on that please. Also, I use Nik FX a lot, mostly the tone mapping and silver FX to add a little punch to my images. Loving your vids, you have really nice calm way of explaining things👍
I prefer Affinity Photo over Photoshop, is cheap and powerful. I use it for your same reasons, a lot for bracketing due to the "not so wide" dynamic range (before the EOS 70D now EOS 6DmkII) . Interesting the use of the gradient as alternative to brush in layer mask. Thanks Nigel.
My usage is pretty much the same as yours - mostly just for content-aware fill or cloning, and for focus stacking. I've found it's sometimes faster at producing panoramas than lightroom is on my computer, but I still prefer Lightroom because of the preview option. I have started experimenting with luminosity masks (using a free plugin version created by the person behind Lumenzia) too. I don't do big edits like sky replacements, but I do occasionally use photoshop to add in a bird or person from another frame, if I feel it tells the story better. I always declare that kind of editing, though.
Nice and honest work as always. Everybody in the photography world is talking about the famous Orton Effect. It almost means that you arent a real photographer if you dont use the effect. Its becoming too much. By the way, dodge and burn is another task for me in Photoshop. Better controls.
That actually was a very good vlog Nigel. Not sure on 4 and 5 , but first 3 excellent viewing. Looking forward to seeing you out an about, hopefully soon. Thanks for sharing again Nigel.
Hello Nigel. Great video once again. I use Lightroom 99.5% of the time and yet, your video convinced me that I should start using Photoshop a lot more. I was wondering if, one day, you can do a video on how to get rid of those obnoxious halos that we get when the light source is behind the subject. There are times where I can get rid of them by tweaking the image using Lightroom Classic's detail panel and the brush tool, but for the most part it is time consuming and the final outcome is usually unacceptable.
I only print files in tif file format because they are 16 bit files vs 8 bit files with jpeg. That's 65,536 values (16bit) between pure white and pure black rather than 256 values (8bit). Makes a huge difference on prints...
Yes please to video on the Orton effect. You seem to do it differently from what I've seen before. Also, I had difficulty seeing what you were doing (especially text) in this episode. Was this in 4k? Or perhaps if you temporarily reduce the screen resolution on your screen so that the text is bigger? Cheers.
Very interesting! Thank you, Nigel. Since a lot of time i use the Orton Effects in combination with TK Actions. But next time I‘ll try some photos using your way to give the Orton-glamour.
@Nigel Danson I have noticed that you use different width borders for some of your photos in recent videos, I would love to see / hear your thoughts on borders, how / when / why / width etc.
Great video, always good to see how someone else uses a piece of software. Might have to have ago at using these techniques, normally I'm a straight into lightroom and that's it. Thanks for the time explaining it.
This was again a really helpful video: I also do use PS only with a few recipes e.g. stacking. I saw several videos about the Orton effect but they seemed to be more simple (Thomas Heaton an Nick Page). I would love to see a comparison between the methods.
