I'd like to apologise to any 18th-century firefighters reading this. ■ AD: 👨💻 NordVPN's best deal is here: nordvpn.com/tomscott - with a 30-day money-back guarantee.
@@terencetsang9518 Even after he said that vpns suck. It seems like they are willing to sponsor anyone. Makes you wonder how little money they put in their service when they can advertise this much.
I say this as a historian. There isn't a single historian who hasn't been wrong. What's important is how they address that. You addressed it perfectly, and that's precisely why I trust the information you present - because I know that if you learn you are wrong you will go out of your way to let people know that.
Theres definitely historians who are never wrong. Those who actually take care before they say things. It’s not that hard. If you don’t care about being accurate however it is very easy to be wrong a few times.
Stephen Fry apologised on an episode once, saying (can't remember the%) that many of the past facts on the show wasn't actually real. I think the panel members started with minus points because of it.
It's one of those facts that is widely circulated that you just expect it to be true but when you dig into it, there's nothing on it. Like Martin Van Buren's tiger Cubs. I tried to learn more about them. The fact that the president of the United states had tiger cubs is cited everywhere, but there is no evidence they existed.
"History is a fractal" and "Anyone who's tells you they're certain about how the world works is either a mathematician or they're selling something" are a good couple of raw quotes.
Actually, I don't even see how you can include mathematicians in there. Maths is all about made-up models, not the real world, though these models can often model the real world with reasonable accuracy. (Occasionally these models _are_ the real world when they're say, the sort of business models I implement in computer code, but even then, that's only when I can convince the business folks to accept a coherent model that's simple enough.)
My grandparents house had a spot for a fire insurance plaque on the foundation. My grandpa explained that it was made of leather and had to be renewed every year at least here in Canada. That’s why none of the plaques really survived. I asked him if you weren’t insured if they’d let the place burn, and he said “no, but if mine and my neighbour’s house were both burning and one wasn’t insured, the insured house would take priority if there wasn’t enough resources”
Thats most definitely where the story has come from. Larger fires without enough resources. In fact, we still do this today, but it's decided by safety and the odds of the house surviving. If it looks as if a bushfire will potentially move through a housed area, a group will go through and mark houses in which a brigade can safely defend the home. They'll look for things like, tree health and not overhanging the house, gutters not full of leaves, clear escape route for the truck and personel, distance of clearway around the house, Perhaps even having a pool in which water can be sucked from etc.
@@AAARREUUUGHHHH They did it that way so they were cheap and easy to make, and were less likely to burn. They usually had a company crest and the year stamped into them, and might have had a plaque number as well to prevent theft and counterfeit claims.
With a scientific background I have to say there is nothing that gets my respect more than someone who can turn round and say “I’m sorry, I was wrong!” In fact in life it is so much more valuable than being stubborn and digging your heels in. Well done on this, you just got a new subscriber.
As someone with only very basic education and upbringing, when someone is this eager to correct themselves they have my attention. I value truth and honesty very much. Maybe because I'm usually too slow to understand in time when I'm somehow being screwed over. Luckily the world is brimming with not so bright people so I can blend right in😂😂😂
Same, man. Especially when I'm wrong. I hate being wrong, not in the way that I hate being seen wrong, but in the way that I hate being incorrect. I want to be accurate to reality.
Tom, the fact you can openly admit when a video is misleading, or even incorrect, *IS* the reason why we trust you. Its more than most people can say, and I personally find it a very honorable trait.
It's the difference between the blind trust of "Okay, I'll believe they're right because they say they are" and the more reasonable "I'll believe they're right, because they probably are, and I'm confident they'll let us know if they got it wrong."
He finds a camera in the wild and decides "it is time for another break", thus he throws the backpack to the ground and records a quick video, then moves on.
Should be true for anyone who calls themselves an accademic. Being wrong is great because it means you've learned something new and are now closer to the truth.
I love how generous Tom is. Instead of taking his L and hoarding it all for himself, he chose take make sure everyone else got their fair share. A real class act.
Tom Scott is such a good youtuber. He corrected a wrong from over a year ago, apologised for it, and stopped others from making the same mistake. 99.9% of all other youtubers simply wouldnt care
The last of the three is what’s actually great about this video. Most people didn’t know it wasn’t true. Now an extremely high profile public figure has brought attention to this mistake in our collective memory. He didn’t just fix his mistake, he fixed a mistake in the entire historical record.
Well to be fair, if another RU-vidr discovered that, in fact, everyone else including QI was wrong on a subject they damn well would make a video about it. They may not care if it was their own mistake but what Tom was doing here was correcting everybody. Very pointedly.
YASS! Here's me wishing I had studied history beyond a BA and had studied further to get an interesting job like that. Sigh, but who knows about those kind of jobs when you're choosing a career path at age 17?
@@jeanmartin963 Really, you had to go straight for that? Try "science is just the current state of misunderstanding" (don't know if that idiom is common in English).
@@fredwupkensoppel8949 Yes I had to. A lot of people nowadays are confusing media advertising in commercials or talk show or even news with science. It is scary. Science is about doubt, not certitude. On one hand you have some stupid people thinking the earth is flat, the moon is hollow, or vaccines having microchip with 5G. On the other you have some other stupids people believing all the interests of the people owning the media or corrupting politics is the truth. Science is neither of them. It is not about believing all official speech is the truth, or believing all official speech is lies. It is not about believing, it is about absolut certitude built from the "science method" where everything is doubtfull before proven, and not believed, being true.
Literally thousands of teachers will be showing this video to their students. This is the very best of academic integrity in action. Total respect for Tom!
@@PianoKwanMan Its not one source though, its one aggregate paper on the sources which it gives reference to, (which means its more reliable then a vast multitude of separate sources and if you disagree you can check the work of the aggregate) the previous claims didn't even actually have a source, history resides in the art of the debate, nothing else.
@@jongmassey QI is wrong all the time if you count violations of the gricean maxims as being wrong - although in those case at least they normally correct themselves within a few minutes.
But...he really didn't. If the research said something and he ignored it, he would be wrong. The bloody page he referenced was wrong, so by default so was he. But he in no way made any error. I would call this a clarification. Hell, the source changed their own statement! And that is not Tom's error. He simply did what any good person would do. He told us the truth when he had the truth.
I resent the fact that I live in a country where RU-vidrs hold themselves to account much more effectively than media organisations and lots of renowned career journalists. But either way, good on you, Tom. Transparency is important, and it's clearly something you believe in.
the irony is that these kinds of correction videos increase my confidence in tom by about 500%. literally who else in the game would pay a professional archival researcher for two weeks of full-time labor to investigate misinformation from 150 years ago.
- makes original interesting video years ago - realizes of a POSSIBLE mistake - makes a super thorough investigation on it to the degree of actually hiring somebody because he's unable to do more - makes another super interesting video explaining the mistake and owning the error like a boss - flawless plug for an actual good sponsor - wishes Merry Christmas - leaves ....I still get the feeling it was an AMAZING video. Scott, you're awesome. Never change hahaha
“You shouldn’t trust me” No, Tom, this is *exactly* why we trust you. You’re not a primary source, but we trust you to do the best you can and own up to mistakes.
Two week's worth of work for a clearly dedicated and experienced researcher can't have been cheap at all. Many kudos to Tom for going to that extent. Yes, it also effects his image and reputation, but that's still gotta be a lot of money.
NordVPN is actually a bit sketchy, especially with all the other youtubers attributing security benefits to them that it doesn't really provide. Tom has a video talking about that issue, but at least he only talked about the thing that VPNs actually do, so good one Tom.
Not to mention that he seems to be the only person who throws the "check your terms of service" caveat into his sponsorship, rather than just telling people to potentially violate their streaming provider's T&C. We stan Tom Scott.
As a history student I love you for mentioning that history is not about memorising dates but about the interpretation of data. Unfortunately, not everyone seems to be aware of this! Thanks for mentioning it and for putting in so much effort and money into doing history the right way!
@@georgerice6488 that's how it's taught in primary school. Very quickly, by secondary school, you already start looking at different interpretations of history.
@@mahfuzurchowdhury2765 Russian schools too, it's all memorising dates and looking at a history from the standpoint that's pushed by the education system, that is backed by the government.
Tom, I have been called stupid for apologizing ages later for my mistakes, and I am so, so relieved that somebody else is there that takes what they put out there seriously and correct themselves. Merry belated Christmas and a Happy new year!
If only news sources would hold themselves as accountable as you have for years Tom. Bless your heart for wanting to disseminate accurate information. You’re a king!
Yes, it's a bit annoying that the original page just changed its story with no addendum or footnotes or anything. All's well that ends well, I suppose.
I can just see it now... News sources come out tomorrow and are like, "so remember two years ago when we reported Trump lost the American election... well.. we were wrong (and so was everybody)..."
It can be hard to find historical truths. If an idea is popular enough it can be accepted as true in even the most stringent communities even if it's not actually true. History becomes a very VERY long game of telephone.
I love you took the time, energy and money to clarify and do the proper due diligence to be factually accurate and back it up. Seems rare now days. Keep up the great work.
Good historians always circle back and correct their mistakes. It's just how qualified professionals operate. Well done, Tom. This video demonstrates wonderfully well that not all information is online. True and thorough historians always utilize actual libraries and repositories, not just online references (which, as this story shows, can be very wrong). Believe it or not, the world is not online.
So much hatrade for the web.. wow.. it's incredible how narrow minded people can be, the issue isn't just "online" the issue is that knowing the truth for 150 years of history isn't easy
good historians r archaeologists, who won't rely on written stuff, that could easily be made up, by the "writing class" :P The only reason I hope for the proof of the phantom time hypothesis. It would put nearly all the blame on historians xD (there was a harsh rivelry between bookworms, and dirt diggers, at my university, guess u already know what I studied)
Everyone's talking about how amazing Tom is for correcting a mistake from 2 years ago, but I'm more impressed that he also used it as an opportunity to make a video about how tricky researching history can be.
This apology is even more interesting than the original video, because it's taught me something that I (and apparently everyone else) didn't know. Fascinating stuff. I love history. Well done, Tom!
The reason I trust you is not because I think you never make a mistake, but because of how careful you are to avoid them, how you fix them, and how transparent you are about it. I can't tell you how nice it is to see at least one youtuber who is honest, and cares about facts...this is incredibly rare. Only a handful of others like this on the platform.
Exactly. Even if he's right that we shouldn't trust him to always be giving factual information - at least I can still trust that he's done his due diligence and isn't trying to mislead people.
Absolutely.. as Tom himself has said, you could study this for years and be left with nothing but a best guess, but so long as we be diligent in the way we present our facts ,references and opinions, then it allows us (and others) to spot and fix these errors.
What other RU-vidrs would pay someone for 80 hours of work to disprove their own video from years ago, make a correction video, and then pull the original video. Tom, you're quality stuff. That's why I keep coming back. Keep it up.
also, pulling the old, still successful video from recommendations while still providing the unlisted video for records. i wish more youtubers his size had half the integrity and transparency.
This video should be used all over the world as a textbook example of how research should be approached and what science ethics really should be. Hats off to your sir.
This has nothing to do with science... this is just making sure that your sources are reliable and people's ability to recall the past or portray it correctly is nothing but unreliable.
@THOM Gizziz I see where you are coming from, but one of the core traits of the scientific method is using reliable sources (references) to base your own theory and experimentation. In addition, I find it extremely important to maintain a deep belief that no matter how honest and thorough you are, in the end, your science is never complete and sometimes can be utterly mistaken. (Unreliability)
“History is fractal” is the best explanation for this sort of discussion. The more detailed you get, the harder it is to make clear statements about anything. I’m going to use this line.
A possible interpretation of the recent Nobel experiments is that reality is fractal. Some generous philosophizing and trying to integrate basic laws can get us to, "Reality is a fractal loop of self reference operating on principles of nonlinear complexity and aperiodic determinism". Because it is fractal, there is no answer at the bottom. Because complexity increases in a nonlinear manner, it is not possible to calculate the top using only the pieces beneath it and the rules of the system. There is always more detail, reality cannot be described independently of the description, and emergent systems cannot be described or predicted using the terms of lower levels of complexity. The only perfect description of existence is the act of existing.
I can't think of any other RU-vid creator so dedicated to owning mistakes, even if they were not originally theirs. "Standing on the shoulders of mistaken giants" is awesome. Nicely done
Well, it honestly IS a good thing. He gets a video concept out of the blue, and he gets to use a dramatic title without it actually being clickbait. In addition to that, this helps him build a reputation for rectifyng his mistakes, making him seem more trustworthy. It's a triple win for him
As an undergraduate studying history right now (and also had a phase in his childhood where he loved firefighters), I cannot thank Tom Scott and Co. enough for commenting on how complex history as a subject of inquiry truly is. Tom is exactly right - History is fractal and never about memorizing dates, not matter what education has taught us. It’s about the continuous interpretation and contextualization of our collective past, lending itself to sometimes new, different, and grander perspectives and understandings about it.
books can also lie, like right now they try to rewrite history, destroy video evidence, delete videos, censor. thats why its important for people to have backup
_History is ... never about memorizing dates, not matter what education has taught us. It’s about the continuous interpretation and contextualization of our collective past, lending itself to ... understandings about it_ - precisamente. And that's why I hated the history classes throughout my school education, even though I'm "generally interested in history" - but of the "why things happened this way and not the other one" sort, NOT "school curriculum style chronicles" going "in the year so and so a certain guy became a king and three years latter he started a war whit that other kingdom, that led to his defeat five years latter" - and nothing about WHY, WHAT FOR or what were "broader circumstances" prompting him do make this or some other decision(s) or take such course of action(s).
"As ever, you shouldn't trust me." The thing is... we do. We trust you to have the integrity to do the research or to have the research done, to make a correction two years after the fact. Keep doing what you do.
I think it's the difference between "I trust your integrity and your intentions" - which Tom has a stellar track record on - and "I trust the absolute correctness of your assertions and advice" - which he is saying not to do, and is good advice.
That's the irony of the phrase "you shouldn't trust me" those that tell you it are demonstrating an uncommon level of honesty, thus trustworthiness by doing so.
I do trust that Tom does his best to present factual information, and I also trust that if that information is later proven to be incorrect, he will let his viewers know.
There is no RU-vidr I trust more than him. Nobody does research like him. Nobody comes even close, And not many have the integrity to state their mistakes like Tom Scott.
@@unthoughtwords yup, but generally you can say that due to his integrity and willingness to correct himself if he is wrong (which I have now seen him do multiple times) amongst youtubers, Tom Scott is definitely one of the most trustworthy sources of random information that has little bearing on your everyday life but is nonetheless fascinating.
I love how even in a video owning up to a mistake, you still turned it into an engaging narrative story about how history is always more complex than it seems. I wonder if it will ever be possible to fully know every single detail about a situation, given the faults of witness testimony, the lack of accurate detailed records, and the possibility that there could be another perspective you simply haven’t considered
Honestly, part of the reason I wish time travel was real is for things like this. Even if you couldn't actually _change_ anything, it'd be neat to see things for yourself.
I think that we, and everything around us, would have to be monitored at all times to an insufferable degree to even have a chance at being fully aware of every variable in any given situation. Not that I think it's necessary to go beyond the broad strokes in most cases, there are always more questions than answers, that's just life.
I guess in a modern setting some things are under such thorough surveillance that you do have complete records of everything that happened in like a 100x100 meter square somewhere. For historic events though, haha no chance.
@@herowin3825 The ritual for summoning that kind of demon is a real pain though, it's really difficult to get a heretic chicken and 6 candles made from human tallow. 😂
This is why I respect the hell out of you. Some other pop sci channels have quietly taken down videos in response to criticism or false information but never issued a correction. Issuing a public correction undoes the damage and boosts your credibility. Well done.
Not to mention the fact that there wasn't even a controversy here. It was just some guy going "hey, one source changed". It was such a small mistake, but he hired someone to do weeks of research to correct it, despite nobody asking him to. That's what I find awesome about him.
"As ever, you shouldn't trust me." True, but this statement is exactly why you are trustworthy. Unlike most of our so-called professional media, they just say "trust me," and when they're proven wrong they either sweep it under the rug or label the people with the actual facts as modern day heretics. Your challenge to fact check you and your willingness to say, "I was wrong, here's the information that proves it" is how actual trustworthy media producers should operate. Thank you, Tom.
We can trust him to act in good faith and tell the truth to the best of his abilities, but we can't trust him to always be correct about everything he says in his videos.
I think the point hes trying to make is never trust a fact on face value, always do your own research or think critically yourself if you want to be sure
I really love how you can admit something you shared in the past was wrong and just casually make a correction. There are too many people whose egos are too tied up in it all. This is how education should be. We learn new info, we make corrections and updates, we move on. Thank you!
Exactly, just like the facts that masks do very little to stop the spread, the vaccine isn't 100% effective, lock downs were a massive mistake etc ,etc. Unfortunately no one is queuing up to correct themselves on that.
The internet needs videos like this more often than we realise. We need constant reminders to think critically and take accountability for what we assume to know. Great video!
The founding of Derry as the Walled City of Londonderry by some of the London Guilds, happened soon after the Hreat Fire. As a consequence, the city was divided into quarters by two wide streets to contain potential fires. It worked too. In one quarter on higher ground is Pump Street where the pump for the newly formed fire brigade was based. They attended to houses with an insurance plaque by the door. If someone didn't pay their insurance, the plaque was quickly removed. This is in the city's archives.
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the motivation of this video as I'm living in a world of denials and double-downs from politicians, performers, celebrities, influencers and other public figures. Not only did you tag and unlist the video but put up a corrective video after you COMMISSIONED A RESEARCHER to achieve the best answer. Your notations on the evanescence of facts and the ephemeral nature of the human record motivated me to send this link to a local Professional Archivist who approves of this message; they oftentimes find themselves providing material for people sifting through facts to reinforce a foregone conclusion.
And by making this video, Tom improved the integrity of his "brand". Take note RU-vidrs and others, this is how you deal with being wrong about something. And in the end, you come out even stronger for it.
God, I took history as an extra subject in uni this semester and boy is stuff like this funny to me. I respect the people who can go around, search dozens of primary sources that may or may not have been digitised, analyse and scrutinise multiple lengthy secondary source books, journals, and papers, even if at the end of the day, they can't come to a definitive answer.
Here’s the thing: That’s true for all sciences, including natural sciences. The uncertainty might not be as blatant and obvious as in the study of history, but it is there, and you need to have a strategy to deal with it.
"Anyone who tells you they're certain about how the world works is either a Mathematician, or they are selling something." Well said my friend, and it is also a reminder that whenever you find yourself in a situation where some charlatan is trying to sell you something, you can at the very least be grateful that they are not instead a Mathematician.
No mathematician feels this way. The reason mathematicians love logic and proofs is its the only place you'll get certainly. All mathematicians are well aware of the pitfalls that come with reality.
If you're talking to a businessman at least you can say that you're not interested. If you're talking to a mathematician, they can define you to be a pile of dust.
Given I know Gary Brannan is an archivist, I can fully imagine Tom just going "Hey Gary, there's this thing I might be wrong about, can you check historical archives for me?"
Good historians always go back and correct their mistakes. This is how qualified professionals operate. Well done Tom. This video does a good job of showing that not all information is online. Authentic and thorough historians always utilize actual libraries and repositories, not just online references
You say we shouldn’t trust you, but it’s videos like this one that means we really really SHOULD trust you, you’re diligent in finding out the truth, and when that truth is found to be incorrect you own up to it and let us all know. Not everyone would go to this much effort to admit they made a mistake a few years ago.
He was wrong for years... you would have believed this lie and spread it to others who spread it to others for years also... I don't see how that is a good thing.
@@thomgizziz it's not exactly a "lie". That implies he was trying to trick people. He wasn't. History is just really messy and even weeks of research doesn't help you come up with a clear answer.
@@thomgizziz Every source will be wrong for years about something. The difference is how they treat discovering it. Tom did everything right about that discovery, and so few do. Tom saying we shouldn't trust him is more that we shouldn't just trust anyone, but he's more trustworthy than most.
It really speaks to your character that you would go out of your way and do follow up research to publicly correct yourself like this. Great work as always Tom!
I never liked history at school but ended up taking a class based on archival research in my last year of my English undergrad. Suddenly found myself waist deep in research on the supply of fish during the 1926 general strike and it was some of the most fun I've ever had researching. I never thought that topic would appeal to me, but just the feeling of finding a gap in existing knowledge and hunting through primary sources to find information on it was thrilling. Working directly with historical documents made the whole thing feel so alive! At the end of the day it's all these messy and complicated little stories that make history such an interesting subject. If we knew everything for sure then why would it even still be a discipline??
Historical research is great fun. It does sometimes grab your emotions unexpectedly, especially when you find that someone long dead was probably really nice.
This is why Tom Scott is and remains of my favorite commenters ever! He could have just done a short a little segment at the end of any video, "Looks like I was wrong in this one video", but he paid someone to do research into it, shares with us that person's findings, and does a whole video on it. A true truth-seeker, now and always.
This is probably one of the most legit RU-vid channels out there, and I just want to say thank you for all the effort you put into everything you do. We all appreciate it.
Tom and CGP Grey need to do an error correction collab. It would be great to hear them talk about their mistakes and their correction processes together.
Trust is earned, not gained. I rate people whom I use as sources of trustworthy information, on how willing they are to own up to their mistakes and how transparent they are. Tom you're an excellent example of how you earn my trust.
I wish to join the legion of others who have offered their gratitude for your honesty and dedication to the greatest level of factual accuracy available. We all make mistakes and no one will ever be right all the time. It's the ability to admit, learn from, and avoid further repetitions of our mistakes that makes one trustworthy. Some mistakes are unavoidable, of course, but you always do your best to make things right and that's all anyone can ask for. Thank you again for demonstrating academic integrity.
No, we should trust you precisely because of videos like this. Not absolutely, but on a spectrum of less trustworthy to more trustworthy you have earned a spot among the most trustworthy in my book. Keep it up, please. :)
Bravo Tom!! This is brilliant! One of the most important traits to have as an academic, and a free thinker, is to understand that anything and everything could be wrong. I love that you posted this, and would recommend leaving the previous video up to lead by example - don't hide it! Own it like you did to encourage the next generation of thinkers to not be afraid to make mistakes in the search for truth. Normalizing that we all get things wrong is what will remove the fear of getting things wrong and not trying at all.
I don't know what to believe in life anymore. If 18th century firefighters didn't ignore buildings without their mark, what even is reality? Am I a brain in a vat? Is life a simulation that was created last Thursday?
The thing is Tom, people will take your word for a lot of these things, and I think they will continue to, because you actually care if what you say is as true as you can. Thats more than what most places offer these days.
Great timing! My teenaged granddaughter and I were talking last night about how hard it can be to verify information from social media. This video will be part of that ongoing conversation.
'As ever, you shouldn't trust me'. But who else is so thorough and corrects their mistakes so publicly and so articulately? Merry Christmas to you too Tom!
This is why we ABSOLUTELY can trust you Tom. Because 2 years on Anyone else would just carry on and be like "well that was wrong but that was then" you're going back and saying "me in the past was untrustworthy"
I prefer "standing on the shoulders of misshapen giants", because like their shoulders could be down at their knees or growing out of their belly or something. Anyway, carry on.
I never thought I'd say this, but it's really refreshing to see someone go into a bit of detail about how much work it is wading through a colossal mess of subjective records in order to produce anything meaningful in the humanities. I've been away from university for too long, clearly.
Tom really is the best youtuber. Very, very few people with viewership like his would go this far just to correct a mistake. Hell the vast majority wouldn’t even mention it
