I'm sorry to ask, but is PhiDX's girlfriend just come to chill in the room to listen him talk ? If that's the case, that's the sweetest thing I've ever witnessed and it actually makes me hopeful of the world again
I’m traveling a 4 hrs ride for a Tekken 8 Saudi tourney and I listened to your analysis and were enlightening. I’m not going to win but going to actually make a presence for the first time ever and meet monsters to learn from. Thank you man for your work and you are an inspiration to me not only on Tekken but on RU-vid and how you chase your dream. Keep it bro and I wish one day we could clash some good fun tekken ❤️
Tier lists are a “I’m trying to be objective to represent the strength of this character, but I cannot measure human ability to perform or fuck up the matchup, the mind games, the playstyle,the adaptations the player makes,etc”
@@Youllneverfindmezx Eh, I'd argue that first and foremost, high tiers either naturally possess a higher concentration of objectively stronger tools, or possess a couple completely unique traits (usually new ones, which will kill both noobs and pros alike). And in regards to that, more high tiers emerge from characters that have favorable matchups to the existing high tiers. Usually, it should be apparent which 2-3 characters are mathematically high tier, and the rest will fluctuate with a million factors affecting them.
Tier lists will always have an element of subjectivity, to boot. Are they factoring only the ceiling of the character and their tools in their rankings or are they factoring in tournament tiering - which is a bit different because tournament nerves and jetlag etc make consistent, easy to execute gameplans more attractive than they might be in online play, where character familiarity and cinnectiij strength are king, for example. Also, are they factoring in the skill floor and/or the ability of the character to carry players through lower ranks through oppressively good buttons that might fade in value at higher tiers of play? Theres a lot of factors and having an objective tier list is kinda impossible due to how subjective the prioritisation of these factors are.
I’m saying… without making excuses, too many people have opinions about Nina that don’t make sense if you play her. Is she really really strong? Yes. Can some characters really struggle against her offense? Absolutely. Does she also have matchups that are clearly in the other characters’ favor? I really believe so. Characters with strong advancing attacks and good range can just melt her sometimes because she just doesn’t have a lot of options in a certain range that other characters excel at. I’m not saying change her, I’m just saying she’s the type of character people will give a chance because everyone says how strong she is, and go “I’m losing a lot… must be because she’s hard to execute” and drop her but not reconsider that maybe what everyone is saying is a little biased because they’re only looking at the character on paper and/or in certain matchups.
Nina is a better character (I believe top 1 currently), but Jin's not a million miles behind either. Jodd's no slouch, top 2 Nina in the world himself, but he's against a more skilled pilot. Yes, player skill is way more important than a tier list.
@@zackariahp1873I mean I see it. Insane dmg, good strings, amazing throws, crazy chip. Seriously, get hit once with guns while her heat is active and suddenly you might as well have eaten a combo
@@yaboytony3028 she's definitely top tier but I feel like if someone picks Nina, it doesn't just give them the win, when I fight a Nina it's not like I've lost before the fight even starts. Also her guns are really strong in heat yes but they are all highs and launch punishable, she has to play defensively and punish for the guns to be guaranteed with either WS1 1+2 or B3+4 1+2. I saw a tier list by plantedmedusa where he put the majority of the characters in s+ tier and I really agree with this, the majority of characters can go head to head with one another imo
So - Jin did not win, CBM did. You don't see him using any cheap stuff (in words of TheMainManSWE - lalala FF2 or F4, lalalala D2 - that is broken) over and over and capitalizing on it. Just pure skill, reads, fundamentals and damage optimazation - that's it. I think that CBM threw one D2 in the match - got blocked and punished. He outplayed Jodd - who played really good by the way - with character knowledge and skill, not because Jin is S-Tier. Skill is more important than tier list.
@@Dr.Happy11 if you get beaten by those moves you have a skill issue lmfao. Now actually learn to block and use your brains for defense and stop crying
@@Dr.Happy11 You talk like those moves would be cheap. Isnt he allowed to have any good moves? People like you wont be satisfied until Jin is garbage tier. Youre ridiculous
I think that if someone struggles against Nina, it's a lack of labbing and overall experience with fighting the character. That's the last thing I'm going to say about that. I'm out.
Absolutely! Everyone gets worked up about a specific character or two, but any character in the cast can beat any other character. Tekken 8 is awesome.
no one plays jin except for jin players, these guys have years of experience with jin(cbm, book, raef, devilster, danielmado). they literally are jin specialists.
@@danisflying im not speaking of scrub level tekken, im speaking of high level tekken sorry i mustve clarified and jin is not as braindead as you are making him be, sure he is easier to play than in tekken 7 but its fair cause the amount of execution needed was unfair, stop listening to the crowd and experience it for yourself
@@awedbywayneyou're a scrub for defending a scrub character like Jin, if I ask you now to upload some relays all I would see is Garyu gameplay.. 214 shouldn't have knockdown on counter, dive kick shouldn't be plus on block, uf2 should be -10, ewhf shouldn't launch on NH, F4 counter pick too easy, zen 3+4 stuns against the wall and nine knows why..
Because Jin has almost no weakness it feels like he can do anything. Good pressure, good grab game, good pokes, good damage, good heat smash. Nina is good but I feel Nina got clear weaknesses unlike Jin. A cracked Jin player is almost always one of the toughest matches you can have in this game
Yes jin tekken 8 is best version.... but nina is same, kuma is same, yoshimitsu is same, king is same, dragnov is same,...80% (probably more) of characters of this game is same... CBM is just a monster, he win with good sidestep and good punish, CBM carry jin, jin no carry CBM. Jin is realy strong (A tier) but he can't be top tier (S tier) because: 1) heat system of jin have no key moove (power stance work just in oki at wall when so much character can used better key moove in heat) 2) he have no long string or block stun for have good cheap damage in heat 3) he have good damage just when he juggle or spécial throw (in tekken 8 have good damage in string normal HIT or in CH is important for yur opponent can't have white life can be regen) 4) jin powercrush ar not fast and not easy at used during opponent string. 5) jin is realy weak with side step right (versus jin key moove AND versus jin juggle combot) ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-qFSGs9UiuK0.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FqDVbMtMxEY.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-zAWVXV7jiiE.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-1szjB5kmKfg.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-dQELpR6quj4.html
The nerf already hurt the move, alot of the time the animation for the heat engager makes it look like it has more range than it does. The move isn't brain dead anymore, it is very easy to side step.
Everyone is used to defeating Nina without straining and picking nose with one finger, which was in Tekken 7. And when it became a little more difficult to play against her, everyone immediately cried along with the TMM donkey, who hates her and overestimates her strength in his stupid list , so that Namco will nerf her again. Nina is a good character, but she has bad luck; too many haters attacked her. Even in the last list where Nina was nerfed, this TMM critin put her on his list as a leader. If you carefully follow the championships, you can clearly see how difficult it is for her to win, because she has many shortcomings and is far from the strongest in this game. Many thanks to the author for this video. Your video is interesting and fair. I watched several videos of this idiot Tmm and realized that he promotes characters in his personal interests and preferences.
Because he's a well-rounded shoto style character who always have a headstart due to "easier" gameplan. Trickier characters get stronger with time (Akuma), while likes of Jin/Ryu/Sol/Ragna get worse
Which is why Jin is the Ryu of the Tekken series since his relationship with his long-time friend and rival Hwoarang is no different from Ryu and Ken's even if he doesn't wanna him, he still enjoys fighting him when he does in return due to his kindness. Also, there's him successfully being able to take control of the devil gene which is all thanks to the help of his friends (Hwoarang, Leroy, Xiaoyu/Panda, and Eddy) after he redeemed himself from the crimes he caused back in T6, which is no different with Ryu successfully being able to take control of the Saitou no Hadou thanks to him tapping into the Kyosui no Hadou. Hence why his current Kyokushin Karate since T4 is the way it is now. 😏
T7 and below i would agree with you but not this version Jin. You are wrong sorry. Yes Jin is good at everything and great at nothing. however he has a lot in his kit and can be used very differently match to match. Jin can be used very differently because of all the tools he possess
simple because nina has remained a specialist char while jin has not retained that. CBM wasnt on jin at the end of T7 for a reason🤷🏽 that's been changed for T8
I don't understand the Tekken community. I think it's an issue with lack of maturity, honestly. They say that characters are much better or stronger than they actually are, just because they personally have a hard time with those characters, and they refuse to do the labbing required to understand them, or they don't like them and want them to get nerfed for no good reason, etc. Again, what is it exactly about Nina that makes her S tier? Is it her strings? All of her strings starting from df1,2 can be either interrupted with a simple crouching jab, or they can be stepped/walked, or they can be punished, ducked, or parried, depending on which option the Nina player does. All of her options can be beaten with something, and it doesn't require a lot of effort. For example, all of her strings from df1,2 can be beating with a crouching jab after blocking df1,2. The only string that can beat a crouching jab is df1,2,f,power crush, or df1,2,power crush...but the power crush is -14 on block. If the Nina player sidesteps after doing df1,2, most of her options after sidestep can be stepped or walked themselves, if you ss/walk them to your left with the correct timing. Her other strings like df3,2_3; d3,4,3; uf4,3,4, etc...have obvious weaknesses.
Nina is a great character, probably better than Jin in terms of her overall matchups against the entire roster, but if you think the Nina/Jin matchup is in her favor I don’t think you’ve ever tried playing her
@@goldenHashbrownHow does that relate at all to what I said... I’m saying I think if you have two players of equal skill, both equally good with their characters, the matchup is more in Jin’s favor - he’s very strong at a range where she’s objectively fairly weak, but not weak at the range where she’s extremely strong (not denying her top 5 to top 3 status whatsoever). People should play her to come to a conclusion about whether I’m wrong or not
I just picked up Nena and shes an amazing character on this game. I feel like I had a hard time finding a character that let me express how I want to play and when I picked her up it was like a eureka moment.
I've noticed with CBM he will use 1 lazer scraper during the round but he wont go into zen. Then he does a 2nd one but goes into samsara, it usually catches people off guard. I've done it myself as a Jin main. Also if you don't finish the Kazama punish where CBM left it, Jin is actually +8 which is huge for his game.
I'd really love to see your take on the nature of nerfing given we're currenty seeing the phenomenon of a charachter (Devil Jin) being considered overly weak now after catching nerfs for being previously thought of as top tier. I feel like a lot of the calls for nerfing become tainted with bias and frustration after being passed around between comment sections and tier lists. This channel has some of the best nuanced tekken content I've ever seen, and I feel like you'd have some of the best commentary on the current state of the top tiers and how they can be toned down without being gutted.
@@PhiDX you overplay their strengths and overly focus on their tools while ignoring their flaws. I’m not even a Jin player, but complaining about Jin’s moves being overbearing is just covert hate (except for maybe 2,1,4). Both Nina and Jin are fine the way they are rn. If you want to talk about broken tools characters have, talk about yoshimitsu.
@@TheUnique69able "ignoring their flaws" you say, and then you bring up Jin. Poor choice of words. Of course, it'd be impossible to ignore a char's flaws when they have *none* The fact you brought up Yoshi, a traditionally jack-of-all char with defining strengths and weaknesses, who is extremely strong in T8, as a "counter-argument" to Jin, a traditionally jack-of-all char who ended up master-of-all, proves you don't really comprehend what you're talking about.
@@Dr.Happy11 I’ve played against the strongest Jin players in the world including book and CBM. Jin has glaring flaws, and the player piloting Jin has to be very good to be successful with him at high level. Yoshi is completely bs that only has strengths and no exploitable weaknesses.
I dont mean to expose us nina mains, but when we SS we dont need to press DF 2 for launcher we legit just SS 2 its baked in... (Just sayin cuz he kept saying SS DF2 but its actually easier than that lol)
i don't see how you guys can't see that every fucking single character in this game is simply busted? Is literally a game where who spams the hardest its given flow chart with a minimum of brain can get through the top ranks in no time, and people who try to play tekken as it always was and we always loved and respected for its incredible defensive and clean gameplay simply struggle to get anything really going. I can't believe that people with ''dirty inputs'' can manage to throw electrics, crouch dash out of moves and beat the absolute living soul out of your body. It's not fair, a competitive game is not supposed to be luck based or guessing, it should be hard work and commitment. It pisses me off that since people are getting dumber overtime things have to adjust for them. I don't mean it as an insult, but it's simply a fact people have or develop skills, you shouldn't be able to compete in blue ranks.
I think it would be awesome if the Tekken community became a trendsetter in moving away from traditional tier lists and their top 5/bottom 5 nature with the way modern FG balance is, and instead went towards something that told a better story and didn't end up in the same regressive dialogue they usually do. Especially in games with such player dependence as this!
because he is easy because he has the easiest electric in the game Because down 2 is the most disgusting low move in tekken history Jin has so much outplay potential I got highest rank blue on him and hwo is my main. Jin is disgussssting for how little you need to do, and the payoff you receive. Much like his disgusting mother.
In this video there was only one person who didn't know anything about the characters' moves, several flaws in the arguments, wrong moves, wrong frames
I'm a Jin player I think there's way better characters than Jin tbh It really feels like a struggle to make a masher hold anything when you can't rely on an easy plus frame mid like alot of other characters and it's a struggle to open a patient player up because they just kbd and block his super slow lows
@@cosmik411 what are you talking about Jin literally has the best low in the game which is unreactable (D2) combined with the best mid in the game ff2. Jin is undeniably top tier and the tournaments show for it .
I play Jin too but I’m of the different opinion. The fact that Jin has every single tool for every situation inherently makes him very strong. In this game, his heat smash is one of the best in the game, decent pokes, good damage output for how simple the combo is, good CH tools, and amazing utility. You could argue that Jin has somewhat of a slow startup to his good moves, sure thats a weakness but thats really all to it.
Just today I was labbing Jin's df2. With Kazuya, it seems magic 4 beats every option out of wavedash after df2 is blocked, and Jin has to manually cancel and duck to go below and launch punish the magic 4. Additionally, any i12 magic 4 will win as long as it doesn't get crushed by CD1. If your character doesn't have a i12 magic 4, try another 12 frame move like 2 jab. Some get crushed some don't. Also, CD WS4,4 is rather fast, and I think magic 4 only wins by 1 frame. So you have to be extra tight with the timing. Ironically, Jin himself doesn't have a good option select for df2 CD options. (i suppose parry may be good, not a Jin main 🤷♂️) If Jin delays the options from df2, CD, that changes nothing and magic 4 will still beat every option.
Wow so in short Nina is near impossible to play to a point where you can execute perfectly leaving no gaps in ur offence to abuse which is when Nina is S tier in my opinion
She takes work but I really don’t agree she’s “near impossible to play”. Tekken 8 is basically my first modern Tekken game, and I rarely pick technical characters in other games (definitely not a Zato-1 or Kenshi player for example) but although her ss1 cancels do take some work to get right, I think there are characters that are way more difficult. When people try her and have trouble winning with her I think they jump too quickly to “she’s too difficult to execute” versus questioning if she’s actually the best in the game like the people who don’t play her are saying
I saw The Main Man just put Nina as the best character in the game and I went 🤨 I’m dead serious, play against a good Paul as Nina at any skill level (or just look up pros doing that matchup) and you’ll see why Nina is a character that in a vacuum is great but she just has some really good matchups and some pretty bad matchups. Some things she does extremely well… and some characters just don’t really need to care about those things. Paul isn’t as high on the tier list but… seriously, just go watch pro players trying out that matchup and you’ll see where Nina falls short (literally at times). I’m trying not to do the typical “downplay your main” thing and just speak objectively here. She is top 5 but that just doesn’t mean she also doesn’t fall short in some pretty significant areas, or have to work a lot harder to do the same thing as other characters in certain matchups. Edit: 5:09 - I think the best clue to what I’m saying is the part about “he’s not desperate to do damage” and what follows after that. Respectfully that strikes me a little as “hindsight is 20/20”. What this actually means to me is that a Nina player either wasn’t pressuring the other player effectively in that match, or because of the matchup the character has a hard time pressuring the other character effectively which means her biggest strengths aren’t coming into play. Here I would argue maybe a bit of both. If a character is able to do what’s being described here then either Nina or the player piloting her isn’t doing their job well enough. I personally think Jodd is good enough that it’s maybe worth taking a second look at the character to see if maybe she has some less-than-favorable matchups.
Awesome as always mate, small request thou... can you make a video that explains how TWT system works?? The process looks intricately designed and very interesting
20:25 I need more tekken content that talks about reacting to approaches. I think thats what missing in my games. Its like how do you react...shit is too fast and worse they might do a move. What should i be looking for?
Small tekken is usually moves that come out at 10-15 moves. Then big tekken is moves that come out slower than 15. I may not have the exact numbers down, but it is ruffling something like that.
Tysm for your videos man, real time analysis like this from a professional is so deeply cherished, esp as someone coming from Smash originally. Your abilities to describe both the flow on paper and the mental stack are incredible, I learn so much every time
