If There Is No God, Is There Free Will? | With Alex O’Connor 

Thanks for this, Ben! For those in the comments: I did not agree that free will is only possible under theism. I agreed that free will is impossible on atheism, _because it is impossible on theism_ or _atheism._ Thus my presentation of an argument against free will that is not affected by the existence or nonexistence of a god. If you want more on this, I have an entire video on my channel called, "Why Free Will Doesn't Exist". Thanks for watching, everyone!

Something about Alex saying “as a wise man once said facts don’t care about your feelings” was so beautiful to me. he delivered it with such respect, devoid of any attack of Ben’s character. He wasn’t trying to belittle him, he was literally saying “I admire your intellect, and here’s how it translates in my worldview”. So fucking graceful Alex.

"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."

So many in this feed don’t understand the determinism position. No determinist says we can’t make “choices”. Determinism says those choices are caused just like everything else in the universe. Your particular genes interacting with this particular environment according to your particular value system determines your actions. These actions are “chosen” but they are not “free”, in the sense that they are constrained by these other variables. Sapolsky new book outlines this argument very well.

I like when people can discuss disagreements without screaming👏

So great to hear moderate intelligent conversation between two opposing views. We need much more of this.

"You are a very high IQ individual. Who can somehow reconcile the idea of living a purposeful life, with the idea there is no purpose to anything". Gold, Ben. I saved that one in my book of meaningful quotes.

" reconcile the idea of living a purposeful life, with the idea there is no purpose to anything"...there is nothing to reconcile. There IS no purpose to anything, but my nature as a problem solver, which I did not choose makes me want to solve problems. The solving of those problems becomes my purpose. My intelligence and lateral thinking makes me understand and think about approaching solutions different from someone else might. There is no conflict. The only thing understanding free will does is help you understand better your motivations and those of others. It also helps you understand how those motivations can be influenced. You CAN make yourself better if you understand the mechanisms of improvement. You CAN become more [insert some trait] if you understand how we learn, grow, build new neural pathways, behaviors and habits.

The world needs more conversations like this!

Thanks for keeping the debate formal

What a healthy debate looks like

I have to start by saying that this was one of the more enlightening conversations I've ever witnessed and I can't compliment everyone enough on their handling of this event. I find myself firmly on Alex's side of this argument and I think he clearly came prepared with a much deeper understanding of this topic, even if only in terms of his ability to vocalize his thoughts. Either way, I was really impressed with Ben's demeanor and eagerness to get into the weeds with Alex, a trait that grows my respect for him quite a bit. It shows me that, no matter where we think we are coming from, it's possible to agree to disagree in service of progress towards truth, even if this conversation isn't the deciding one.

Ben has some serious balls to have engaged with Alex in a debate about free will.

I love how the two get along. Very inspiring Ben!

Free will posits the idea that something can happen without anything preceding it, as in cause and effect. Everything we know of in the universe is all cause and effect. In order to have free will, somehow cause and effect would have to cease for those instances of free will.

Love this kind of talk, it makes me feel my brain again

Well, like Aristotle said, if there are contingent things (things that might be or might not be), then determinism, which claims that everything must always be a certain way, has to be false (On interpretation, 19a1).

Absolutely delighted that you agreed to have this conversation with Alex, Ben! This was really substantive, and a good faith effort to engage with an opposing worldview while being intellectually honest. I was rooting for Alex before watching the full dialogue, but respect the fact that your arguments here were really solid and civil.

I think any free will discussion should distinguish between the subjective free will and the objective free will otherwise it will be confusing. The subjective free will is easier to agree on. For example, if someone kidnapped my father and asked me to kill somebody in order to release my father, I'll be in a highly pressured situation, but as long as I'm conscious and in control of my muscles, I still feel I'm free to choose (whether to follow the kidnapper's order or not), that is the subjective side of my free will. However, the objective side is how predictable my action is for a third party. Let's say the third party is a highly advanced alien (or a God) who have access to all the available current information down to my atomic level. Would it be possible to predict my next action with 100% accuracy given my current situation? If so, then we live in a deterministic world and there is no objective free will. On the other hand, if 100% accurate prediction is not possible even with all the knowledge of the current situation (as some quantum interpretations may suggest or a God who can break the deterministic rules any time), in this case, the world is not deterministic and that can leave a room for the objective free will (still mystic but one can't say it's impossible)

I think the crux of the refutation against Alex is that his [simplified version of his] question, "What causes the soul to make decisions?" sounds like a more elegant version of New Atheist refutations to the First Mover argument. ("Well what created God???") God is the uncaused cause. The soul/deciding being (as Ben puts it) *is* the undetermined decider. That is what a human is at its core.

Ben’s free will got determined in this debate

Alex is amazing!

Key sentence: "My entire philosophy rests on the positing of an entire realm of things I don't understand". That is true for every human being, atheist or theist. We are quite simply limited in our knowledge, and even if the boundary between the known and unknown, by scientific discovery expands a million fold in our lifetime, it will still be a boundary between the known and unknown. There are two kinds of faith: faith in a spirit or God or cosmic consciousness, and faith that one day, materially, all will be known. It is this hope of finally "knowing all" -- understanding the brain, explaining consciousness, having origins worked out -- that the atheist rests on. The theist, meanwhile, puts all of that in the hands of God.

"Even so the faith, if it have no works, is dead in itself." - James 2:17 🕊

Is your soul saved? We all have sinned (Romans 3:23 KJV). All unsaved sinners will end up in the eternal lake of fire (Revelation 21:8 KJV). The Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV). Water baptism DOESN'T save us (1 Corinthians 1:17 KJV). We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9 KJV).

I'm a theist but in my opinion Alex's argument against libertarian free will holds water. Jonathan Edwards has a similar argument in The Freedom of the Will. It seems to me that Ben appeals to mystery to escape the conclusion.

If God does not exist, whose will are we free from?

'Random' is an illusion.

Read Robert Sopolsky's book, 'Determined' - delves into biology on a granular level in making the case for the absence of free will. Ben will go to the ends of the earth (no pun) to hold on to his beliefs. For example, when he says scientists talk about free will via theology, he doesn't name anyone. I'd love to hear Ben's response to a few questions, for starters: "Did you choose to be born? Did you choose your parents? Did you choose when to be born? Did you choose the environment into which you were born? Did you choose your genetic makeup?"

I have free will but many times I don’t have enough will to be free. Many times real freedom (which implies free will) means deciding and doing something you don’t feel you want but you think is necessary and there for good. So you can act based on reason if you have enough free will and are not a slave to emotions. Now the question is, why can I think I need to do something I don’t feel like doing and even though I now it’s better for me to do it, I don’t do it. Why am I a slave to my emotions many times? What gives me the strength to overcome my emotions and act according to reason? That strength is needed to be free. Where does it come from? From me, that seems like I don’t have it many times? There is a power outside me that gives me strength to be free.

That man made a elegant arrangement against his own existence.

“Will” exists, but “free will” doesn’t. What exactly is adding “free” to it supposed to mean?

There is only the illusion of freewill.

Alex's logic is sound in a universe bound by space, time, and matter (STM). The point Ben's making is that God Himself is not bound by STM, and perhaps neither are our souls (that make the decisions). That's why God can be the first cause without Himself needing a cause. While the atheist may criticize this phenomenon as a logical "escape hatch," that criticism doesn't render the explanation untrue.

I'm having a hard time seeing how the quest for the answer isn't based in free will. What good does it do our biological nature to spend years studying different ideas (which are foreign to our understanding)? The quest for the answer, to me, seems proof of free will. Maybe I'm missing something.

Not only is free will an illusion but our personal view of reality is an illusion which our mind creates from inputs. We take in dvd quality data and our mind creates a 4k illusion for us to interact with. In essence all we experience is an illusion not just freewill. Free will is really just not knowing the story till it happens. I can enjoy a book even knowing it's ending and all that occurs is predetermined and I view lack of free will the sane way.

I wake up every morning despite wanting to rise above helping humans in the aquatic environment wages below poverty level. I attribute it to hard hard focused working passed relatives and hard working husband praying daily ❤️

"In its essence, love is an act of the will-more precisely, the willing of the good of the other as other. To love is really to want what is good for someone else and then to act on that desire. Real love is a leaping outside of the narrow confines of my needs and desires, and an embrace of the other’s good for the other’s sake. It is an escape from the black hole of the ego, which tends to draw everything around it into itself." Bishop Robert Barron "Daily Gospel Reflection (02/06/24)" If there's no free will there's no real love.

Great discussion. Lots to chew on.

For an atheist who claims to be familiar with the Horsemen, Mr. O'Connor appears completely unaware of Daniel Dennett's work on Free Will.

It makes more sense that there is an infinitely intelligent creator who designed everything as opposed to a tornado going through a universe sized junk-yard and somehow creating a Ferrari. We are just too well made to be random chance, and I think that God is the one who created us, the creator. Still appreciate Alex's questioning and opposing views, very interesting things to think about.

It doesn’t matter if free will exists or not. Because we experience life as if we do have it. It’s real in the sense and the way we experience it.

Ben Shapiro won this entire debate just minutes after this clip was cut, and almost nobody realizes it. Ben's premise is that 1.) Freewill is only possible under theism, 2.) Most people need to believe they have freewill in order to be functional in society. Alex agreed with both of these premises. He agrees that freewill is not possible given naturalism, and of freewill he says the "helpful fiction" is "precisely why it evolved." He even says, "The mechanism is so useful and has been so successful in embedding itself in our psyche that we cannot shake it off." So, let's consider the topic of the debate: Is religion good for society? Premise A: Freewill cannot exist without theism. Premise B: People need to believe in freewill in order to live functional lives in society. Conclusion: Religion is necessary for building thriving societies. Alex agreed with both premises. The conclusion must then follow. Ben won the debate.

Your will can be free from ignorance, undue influence, threats and intimidation, drugs, etc. but your will itself is not free from the cause and effects of the universe that precede and are external to you - your genetics and how it interacts with your environment entirely predetermine your will.

after watching this 3 times It still hurt my brain🤕.

Something can either be random or determined, but it can also be something in between. If something is random, it is entirely chaotic. To claim an individual's soul is random is to state that all of their actions are left up to chance. That is not free will, that is flipping a coin. If something is determined, then the results are based off of external events. To claim a soul is determined is to suggest every choice has its reason. If there is reasoning behind a choice, then it has not been made freely. If something is partially random, but constrained by deterministic features, then the flaws of both randomness and determinism apply. Any constraints have their reasons, and any final selection is chance. There is no room for free will here either. Perhaps we are arguing not of a soul, but of a style of selection that is neither deterministic nor random. My question then is, as an individual, how do you make a choice? Do you lay your options in front of you? Do you guess or try to pick randomly? Determinism clearly applies to humans, as we learn and grow influenced by our environments. Randomness may also play a role, but it's presence is much harder to see. If there is an additional state of selection that exists, it may be present in humans instead of any perceived randomness. In my personal opinion, I feel such a exotic state of selection is needless to consider, when the vast majority of behaviors can be described through deterministic means. However, I would likely be unable to disprove it's presence.

I feel that this question of 'If Free Will exists or not' is not the proper question, rather How much Free Will do we have? Being a stronger argument.

I really really don’t care for Ben Shapiro and especially his politics/morals, but I gained some respect for him here for acknowledging good arguments and being totally respectful throughout. Although I guess it’s crazy we’ve come to this point where the bare minimum of decent debating is now seen as the outlier. Seems the status quo has moved to passionate ranting and interrupting while shutting out any points whatsoever as inherently wrong because they’re arguing against you. The idea of debates having winners and losers is so exhausting

With gratitude to our creator free will is a living breathing reality. I choose meditation to inspire me to live a purposeful life.

I currently don't see or have a purpose in life and that is why I'm depressed, not wanting to do anything with my life because in truth if I accept that there is no afterlife or purpose I accept that my actions have no meaning or purpose behind them, so it doesn't matter how good of a person I am and how much I achieve or help others, because if I accept that there is 100% no afterlife or purpose it means nothing matters, including my actions, or who I become and am in life. What is the point of living a fulfilling life if there is no purpose to it and I can eat twinkies in my room all day and indulge in guilty pleasures? I truly believe that I will not get out of this depressive self-destructive state unless I find some sort of purpose in life, as I'm not one of those people who can accept, as ben shaprio says, that I'm just a meatball in space with no purpose.

It’s evident that while we possess this inherent free will, numerous external forces such as societal norms, personal inclinations, and deeply ingrained habits or addictions exert their influence, subtly steering us towards certain choices over others. However, the remarkable adaptive capacity of humans stands as a testament to the resilience and dynamism of our free will. This adaptability enables us to introspect, reevaluate, and reshape our responses to our surroundings and internal states. We are not mere puppets to these external forces; rather, we hold the power to reform our preferences, habits, and even overcome addictions. This ability to transform and evolve reflects the true essence of free will - it’s not about making choices in a vacuum but about how we respond and adapt to the myriad factors that shape our decision-making process

Since this question will never be answered we each get to choose. I will choose free will. We are all free to do good or evil, clearly.

It's a crime that Rudolf Steiner's Philosophy of Freedom is largely forgotten. The man was a genius and one of the greatest philosophers in history, but he's been deliberately buried by the establishment over the last century.

I believe in God. Jesus Christ is the only savior that can save us from the evil. I frear for our kids and grandkids and great grandkids.

Where does Ben actuall refute the idea that free will cannot exist if the brain is deterministic? He said stuff but nothing that seemed to actually answer it directly.

Damn, Ben wiggled out from a slam dunk argument. That aside, I respect that he talks with some of the strongest people of his opposition and actually lets them speak.

Why do I feel like I'm too dumb to watch this video?

If Ben was born with an IQ of 90, which he had no control over, he wouldn't be having this debate on RU-vid. That's how determinism works. Period.

”The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.“ ‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭16‬:‭9‬ ‭ The Lord has established all things for His glory for all of time. Yet by the washing of my sins and changing of my heart Jesus allows us to follow Him with all our heart, soul, and might. From that we fight for truth and to not be slothful. The bigger issue here is Ben and all that reject Christ need to repent and trust in Him.

Why did Ben cut this off before Alex went back and explicated why the burden of proof does indeed fall on Ben. If he believes that God provides an escape patch, that is only intelligible if there is a god. And he cant use mysticism to say he cant comprehend god. Circular argument. Cant prove uncaused actions because God's mystery, but cant prove God because cant prove free will. See?

I am reading Robert Saplosky's book on this at the moment. He outs forward a strong argument for the absence of free will. I do, though, enjoy Ben's argument. Thank you for putting two people together who disagree!

I've never understood the _'you act as though you have free will'_ line, boy would I be living a very different life if i truly possessed such a thing.

I'd argue the opposite. If God exists, Free will can't.

It's not necessary that a God exists in order for free will to exist. Without free will reason cannot exist. It would be impossible to reason. It would just be an illusion. Yet reason does exist. Trying to deny its existence actually implies you are reasoning. So, free will exists.

Why would we assume that there needs to be a purpose? Is it because life without it is sad? Ultimately, it doesn't matter if it's sad or not, it just is. In the end, you are free to live it how it is or not and it doesn't matter. That's the beauty of it.

A lot of people don't want to get out of their bed every morning but they need to because they need to earn a living.. If someone or something causes you to do things then its not free will

I don't think Alex's dichotomy argument holds. To be concrete, let's consider your choice to eat a cookie or not. He says the following: 1. Your choice is either determined by something outside of you or it's not. 2. If is it, you're not free. 3. If it's not, it's random, so you're still not free. I think 3 is wrong. Instead, your Will just IS the "determining thing," and it's also the terminal object (no infinite regress) in explaining a choice. So I say that something can be caused by a determined process, it can be random, or it can willed. Trichotomy, not dichotomy. "Why did you do that? Was it caused by something else or was it random?" "Neither. I chose to do it." In practice, what does using your Will look like? Consider the cookie. I may think, "well, I'd enjoy the cookie, but, knowing myself, I'd probably end up going overboard and eat too many, so let's hold off for now and put them away so I don't keep thinking about them." Or, instead, "a cookie sounds good right now, I'm kinda hungry, and I'm totally happy with my weight and health right now, so let's go for it." With any finite good we encounter in this life, we apprehend and judge it as good under some aspect and bad under some other aspect, or we may judge an alternative as better or worse under various aspects. The Will just is that thing that chooses what we understand to be good (no matter what, we choose what we think is good, even if we are deluded or mistaken). There is nothing in this life that is just perfectly good and desirable under every aspect, that exhausts all our desires, so we are never determined to choose that thing. I think it’s important that we don’t think of free will as the ability to make arbitrary choices. Rather, free will is the power to judge things as good or bad, or better or worse. Certainly, one can see some good in lying or cheating or stealing, and so some people choose to do those things, but other people more clearly see the bad in those actions, so they choose not to do those things, even if they may simultaneously see some good in those actions and be tempted by that. Of course, it’s also possible to train your will to not choose bad things despite the perceived upsides. That’s called building good habits and virtues. One can also pray for grace to help you do that. Furthermore, if there’s any time when we can be said to not have free will, it’s when we’ve vitiated it by accruing bad habits. The people who can most accurately be said to not have free will (in some sense) are those in the grips of addictions and vice. On the other hand, in heaven, it may seem like you don’t have free will. Indeed, you are in the presence of the fulfillment of all your desires, so your Will just can’t choose against it. I still think the integrity of your Will is preserved though. Having made your choice for God, that choice is continuously ratified for you through your enjoyment of the fruit of that choice. In an older video, Alex made an extended version of his argument here, and part it may be used to try to oppose part of my view of how all this works. I’ve explained that, when you choose A over B, it’s because you’ve judged A to be better than B, at least in some respect that you’ve decided to base your decision on. Alex would say that you were forced to choose A over B because, though you desired both, your desire for A was stronger than your desire for B, so you weren’t really free. The problem with that argument is that it doesn’t make any sense to call one desire “stronger” than another. If we really thought that strength of desire admits of magnitude, we could ask what the units are, and it’s clear that that makes no sense. If his only explanation of what it means for one desire to be stronger than another is “you chose one thing over the other,” then he’s arguing in circles. Instead, we choose A over B because we judge it to be better in some respect. If there was only one axis (so to speak) along which things could be rated as good (and if we never misjudged things), then our choices would always be determined. Instead, things are good or bad in many different respects (and things don’t just admit of magnitude in a way where you could truly just add things up as pros and cons in an obvious way). So I think this is a coherent explanation of how all this works. It fits with my own experience, and it makes sense of my experience of things seeming like I definitely have free will. Therefore, since it seems to me like I have free will (just an intuitive hunch like we all have) and I have a coherent account of how that plays out, I think I’m justified in thinking I have free will, and that should suffice for Alex’s dichotomy argument. One can still ask, “where does free will come from?” I think God definitely has free will. Certainly, He is in no way limited or determined, yet He chose to create the specific universe that He did, and He could have done otherwise, and there was nothing outside of Himself that made Him do what He did. So then if God made us in His image and likeness with an immaterial Intellect and Will, it seems like we could (and do) have a certain shadow of that free will.

10:24 I don’t think Ben understood the weight of what Alex said. From what I understand, Christian apologists generally agree that God can’t do impossible things. For instance, many apologists believe God cannot create a stone even he cannot lift. What this means is that god is maximally powerful, but doesn’t possess raw omnipotence because raw omnipotence is impossible. Alex claims that free will necessarily does not exist, which means it’s up to the theist to prove that it can exist. So Ben just saying that god can do things he cannot understand the full mechanism behind does not get around this problem, he has to explain how free will can possibly exist, especially in a universe with a God

I don't remember seeing Ben this frail and reasonable before. He's actually nervous. And this is Ben's best showing in the debate.

Why does someone wake up in the morning? The notion that it’s either internal OR external is a very simple way to think about it. I think it’s both due to the fact that people have goals, and values; yet also operate out of self preservation. These goals and values are motivated by external factors such as wealth, acknowledgment by others, and an overarching desire to fit in. What constitutes the logistics of these external factors is determined by the state of the culture and society a person may live in. Any rational person knows that hard work eventually pays off, and these external factors become internal motivators. Free will most definitely exists. ex: You can decide to stop waking up in the morning, but there are consequences to these actions. So, waking up in the morning is an act of self preservation and in service of the bigger picture in whatever an individual might strive towards. People need to dream and have goals…..if you strip away those goals, sadness is all that remains. If you didn’t believe in an afterlife, wouldn’t you want to enjoy a sense of fulfillment in the time you have? At least this is my opinion for whatever it’s worth RU-vid comment section 🤷🏼‍♂️

*Ben Shapiro is the G.O.A.T.*

Alex must deny free will because of his metaphysics, I.e., an accidental world operating as a mindless and purposeless machine reducible to the material. But, and this is a very BIG BUT, this is not how he actually lives his daily life. Hence, he lets his abstract metaphysics dictate on what he thinks, but lives his life involving the actual practice of free will but denying it exists mentally. Make that make sense.

Free will is forever subject to our personality. It is therefore guided by values. When we choose a certain set of values, we lock ourselves from a certain set of choices, which means our free will is still regulated. Free will is itself a delusion because free does not mean "subject to no rules". That is chaos. Freedom is about having rules that give you the room to exercise as much choice as possible in whatever situation.

Free will does exist in the sense that you can choose what you do with your life, and the only one in control of that is you, with some exceptions. Though that in itself is within the confines of morality, so there are consequences to bad choices.

I don't see how free will is possible, do any of you?

When he said youre an high IQ individual who can somehow reconcile with living purposefully when in reality theres no purpose to anything. I realized where my IQ is 😭

Ben got owned here 😂😂😂😂 If we can ignore God's word on slavery, why do we have to listen to anything else he said?

Whether free will is true or not, that doesn't prove or disprove God. Also, both free will and determinism can play a role in our decision making.

But if we wouldn't have free will, choosing to believe in free will or not would never make any difference nor impact our lives in the slightest. But in reality, the one you chose to believe in does impact your life in major ways. Example, someone believe he does NOT have free will, he uses his belief as an excuses for all his actions and put the blame on this for every opportunity he gets. Then later on he willingly change stance and chose to believe there is free will. Suddenly his behavior change, since he now understand his actions are only his to blame, he starts working on himself and become a better human being. Does a fly have free will ? Probably not. Does humans have free will ? Most do.

Choosing premium and saltines is nothing compared to choosing eternity in heaven or hell

Alex O Conner vs Frank Turek is epic. Frank is really good

It amazes me to know that Dr. James White would absolutely DEMOLISH both these guys, but for different reasons. If White is not a part of these conversations, the world loses. Immensely. If he is included, both of these intelligent men will never be the same after the interaction.

Why would a non-freewill person ever make a bad decision or have depression, anxiety or do anything but what is known to be best for themselves always? Just sounds like a way to excuse oneself for any wrong-doings or mishaps they CHOOSE to do...

A person comes to Ali bin Abu Talib and asks whether we have a free will or not, he says lift one of your leg. The man pulls his leg. Then Ali bin Abu Talib says lift your other leg. The man said, how can i do this, i'll fall. Then Ali bin Abu Talib says, "we are in between"

I think free will is for people who can think. I come across many people who seem so tied to a certain mindset or material good that it consumes them and they forget what it means to be free minded. I think free will is most commonly found in children as they don’t understand social norms yet.

If free will doesn’t exist, then how can we rightly hold murderers accountable for their crimes? Also if free will doesn’t exist, then all we need for people to make the right decisions in the perfect world is the right incentives, and getting there by any means should certainly be justified. Which strips everyone of all human rights and imposes tyranny. No thanks.

One of my issues with Alex's belief structure is that he is sitting down and conversing - a 'do' - to instruct one on why he is incorrect - an attempt to change another one's will. Alex does this while saying that he believes we have the freedom to act but not the freedom to believe. If we do not have the freedom to will, then why are you using your speech in an attempt to change his will when one has no control over what he wills? Edited for structure

Yes, there is a God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and we do not have a Freewill. We are slaves to sin and a slave doesn’t have a Freewill. If you claim you have a Freewill after reading Romans 7:13-25 your a liar or just ignorant of the truth .

Love them both, excellent duo 👌

Ben got departed. Again.

We live in a bubble of space, time, matter and energy, which contains all the categories that govern our thought and imagination. Anything that exists beyond this bubble is completely outside our cognitive capabilities. It will always be a complete mystery to us.

We lost free will with the Fall. We gain it back if we accept Christ and have the Holy Spirit.

Free will is an illusion. Humans are not uncaused causes. Free will does not exist whether or not determinism is true. If our actions are caused, then our actions are determined and thus no one is free. If our actions are randomly generated, then our actions are not really in our control and thus no one is free. I also take British philosopher Galen Strawson's 'Basic argument' to be correct. Strawson summarizes his argument as follows: "When one acts, one acts in the way one does because of the way one is. So to be truly morally responsible for one’s actions, one would have to be truly responsible for the way one is: one would have to be causa sui, or the cause of oneself, at least in certain crucial mental respects. But nothing can be causa sui - nothing can be the ultimate cause of itself in any respect. So nothing can be truly morally responsible."

If there is no free will at all, you cannot choose the sounds that come out of your mouth. In that event, the statement “there is no free will” is just random noise that has no truth value, and is false. On the other hand, if you do have free will, but say you do not, then the argument is false. Ultimately, any argument that free will does not exist is self defeating.

God cant be all powerful and all knowing unless he already knows what will happen. To say humans have free will is to admit that god doesn't know what we will do, and that is akin to saying god is flawed. Humanity was never meant to have the garden of Eden from the beginning. The outcome that Adam and Eve would eat the apple was already preordained, and God's plan is that everything we do is leading up to a specific outcome that God has already chosen.

Alex is a brain and very well spoken. Debating philosophy with Alex is like trying to outwrestle Nurmagomedov. Very few (Sam Harris among them) can drink at the same bar....

If there is no such thing as free will, then why does every society hold its citizens accountable for their actions? There must be human freedom of the will on some level, or we wouldn't do this. On the other hand, if there is an uncreated, all-powerful, all-knowing, everywhere-present, purposeful God, as expressed in the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures, then on some level human will is not free. So we must distinguish between the Divine will which is freely and purposefully working in the universe, and human will, which operating relative to our humanity, is also being expressed freely and purposefully. The Bible tells us that God will eventually reconcile all things to himself. Yet, he is doing so in cooperation with free (in relation to our humanity) human beings.

Freewill means to me that we are allowed to make our own conscious choices right or wrong. Act or speak good or evil in our own life or that of others. Either way, there is a consequence or blessing to & with each action and word, towards self and or any other!!

Today's Meditation “We have difficulty understanding this, just as a blind man has difficulty understanding color, but our difficulty doesn’t alter this fact: God’s omnipotence and omniscience respects our freedom. In the core of our being we remain free to accept or reject God’s action in our lives-and to accept or reject it more or less intensely. God wants us to accept him with all our ‘heart, soul, mind, and strength’-in other words, as intensely as possible. But he also knows that we are burdened with selfishness and beset by the devil, so it will take a great effort on our part to correspond to his grace. … Every time our conscience nudges us to refrain from sharing or tolerating that little bit of gossip, every time we feel a tug in our hearts to say a prayer or give a little more effort, every time we detect an opportunity to do a hidden act of kindness to someone in need, we are faced with an opportunity to please the Lord by putting our faith in his will.” -Fr. John Bartunek, p. 591

I think the people who hold the idea that free will doesn't exist are mainly people who are less conscious and less aware of themselves and running mostly on autopilot. That's actually a thing. Part of our brain function is to assess threat and non threat environments. When the brain establishes something as a non threat it developes neuro pathways to conduct brain activity leading to action with little to no thought. Like washing dishes or driving. The brain does this to reserve attention to the potential threat that may arise. But in society today everything has become so easy and safe that the brain has developed so many of these subconscious pathways that the brain grows lazy in actual conscious thought and decision making. So these people may very well experience a life where the decisions they make are less decision and more reactionary. This is actually the majority of the population now and it becomes more and more easy to even manipulate people's emotions, opinions and "decisions". But for those of us who remain conscious and use our brain for critical thinking and proper judgment in our day to day lives to make wise decisions the notion of no free will is pretty asinine. Someone who says they believe there is no free will, all they're doing to me is showing that they lack a substantial amount of proper consciousness to even consider it as a possibility.