II V I - Who Has The Best Approach For Jazz Beginners? 

How do you suggest getting started improvising over chord changes? 🙂 I Wish Every Jazz Beginner Could Watch This: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-F_uuHfrMfIQ.html

Jimmy Bruno best teacher his cracking the code!!!

Jens: Hands down one of the very best videos I have ever found for soloing over iim7 - V7 - IM7. Thank you!

I probably let the tempo dictate which chords get highlighted. If changes are moving slow enough, I like to try and highlight every chord. If the changes are blazing by, just highlight the important pivots (i.e., V-I). So, you're right Jens! Learn both hah

Definitely one of the most prominent and common progressions in Jazz, and for good reason, indeed. Always enjoy you breaking down even the most straightforward of musical concepts man. Cheers

Thank you so much Jens! Your teachings are so concise. Thanks for making concrete the fuzzy thoughts in my head :-) I especially love how you emphasize Melody at the end. After all, isn't it the emotional impact of a good melody that makes us sing inside😊

I knew I was in trouble when you played the "horrible example" and I thought it sounded fine! I really like the production quality and content of your videos. You are a gifted instructor!

Love the simplicity of this one! And I gotta say...your video production and use of humor is just getting better and better. Infotainment for the win!

Thanks, Jens, like all great teachers you keep going back to basics. For us who have struggled in the past, you are a godsend.

This was actually really helpful. Felt like i was getting a bit of information overload before with watching too many lessons. Not sure what you said in this video compared to the other dozen's i've watched... but it helped. Thank you jens!

Nice as always Jens! It seems we need more than one way to play ii V I, just for the sake of variety and to suit the song. The more I play jazz, the less I focus on things like how to ii V I, and focus more on the songs themselves, and how to convey that - maybe ive gotten comfortable with ii V Is. Your book was really helpful with that, especially when starting out.

I think an EXCELLENT ETUDE for the serious guitar student (we are all students of the guitar) would be to take your phrase at around 4:42 and play it "ALL OVER THE FRETBOARD". This would really help to learn the notes of the fretboard and inherently create interesting phrasing and articulation. During this process, someone might also notice that the first 4 notes of the phrase is an Fmaj7 arpeggio.

I always felt like Martino and Harris were talking about the same thing, just in different applications. Martino's "parental forms" thing is a lot like Barry Harris's "borrowing" in its execution - I do think it's weird that in the material I've been exposed to Dr Harris seems to not really deal with augmented chords, even though they have the same symmetry as diminished chords. I figured, maybe wrongly, that guitarists generally like to "minor-ize" chords whenever they can because of how well it plays against the bog standard pentatonic box? But I guess Joe Pass doesn't think of it this way so who knows

This wasn't the main point of the video, but you have perfectly articulated my grievance with educational methods which emphasize the modes corresponding with every chord. It has the unintended consequence of turning each chord into isolated events, instead of a progression! Maybe it's my classical side coming through, but I feel similarly about chord extensions in that I think it's more helpful to think of them early on as passing tones, suspensions, anticipations etc, so that it's put in context and relates more to larger gestures of tension and resolution.

Nice, gonna practice this. I've been trying to add target notes in my "reaching outside the box" arpeggio exercises.

I've noticed in the last several months how being flexible in how you think about the relationships between ii chords and V chords is super useful. I think because of their symmetry, minor7/minor11 chords are really mobile. It's easy to get a lot of language out of them so they can be useful if you want to play fast lines but the chords aren't moving quickly. However the leading tone resolution you get in the V7 chord is a very important sound as well. I think the solution is to get used to thinking of the natural 6th in a ii chord as making it into a sort of V7 and the sus 4th in the V chord as making it a kind of predominant. Other than the bass note, I think that the use of either scale degree 1 or scale degree 7 in either the ii or V chord really changes whether it feels like a pure ii chord or a pure V chord.

Outstanding and insightful lesson, especially by covering multiple approaches (and mixing them). Thanks, Jens! -Tom

The preview is pure gold 😄 Great video, Jens!

Thanks Jens again and again. You’re definitely the best jazz teacher on the web!

Another wonderful, clear, precise tutorial. Many thanks.

Thank you for this. You solved the issues going on in my head. Thank you the Melody is the most important concept ☺️😊

wonderful lesson, thanks

Great video. Agree completely. Really a matter of whether you want to emphasize the subdominant or dominant tonality, or the movement between them. They are flavors and we are the chefs. Why would we want to always eat the same thing?

Thank you for this clear and nice video ! 🙏❤️

Thank you, Jens. Obviously, there's a lot more can be said about melody, but you left out one powerful approach: hearing it in your head and playing what you hear. To develop this skill, sing what you play. Sing unison with your melody lines. (And know your fretboard really well - then you won't be restricted to scale notes, but can get those "wow! what was that!" tones!)

I'm not sure you noticed this (and I don't think you said it), but in every example you played the 3rd note of the chord within the first beat and the 7th note within the fourth beat, for every chord in the ii-V-I. So for Dm7, you start with F, go to C, then resolve that to the B of the G7 and move to F, then resolve to E for the Cmaj7, finally moving to the B (the major 7th of C). That makes sense -- those are the notes that define the sound of those chords, and as you've explained elsewhere, shell voicings use 1-3-7 for that reason. The C-B and F-E half-steps mark the changes neatly. I'm sure you don't always do this in real performances, but it's good for teaching.

Interesting and solid sight, thx😊

Thank you for a clear explanation 🙏🏽

It might surprise you, but I would hesitate to recommend Barry to a beginner. I think you have to have all of the arpeggios and scales under your fingers to a high level to work with it.

Having listened to Pat Martino talk about his ideas around minor conversion a lot, I understand that is how he conceptualises it, but that's not what you hear in his playing. His lines flow over the changes in a way which is constantly outlining them and resolving. I certainly don't hear an absence of the V in a iiVI. Similarly, I don't hear the absence of a ii in Joe Pass. Finally, I have heard a million times that the most common ways of changing the chords in a progression is to make a V into a iiV or simplify a iiV to a V. This suggests the V is king.

Great video, as expected! Thanks so much ! Maybe the approach depends on the time signature or tempo ? In a slow ballad when you can really hear the individual chords, then the 251 approach makes real sense. In a (very) fast tempo it could be the opposite ? You don’t have the time !

Echoing a few others here. I think tempo and if its a short or long 2-5 matter a lot. If the 2 is a whole measure i feel like you must play on the 2. If you are adding alterations to the 5 chord. And you just play them on a whole measure of an 2 chord sounding i think its going to sound really bad unless youre in the hands of a really good player with really good taste…on short 2-5s, especially at a fast tempo, i always feel like im chasing the chords if i try to outline both the 2 and the 5…i agree that learning all 3 methods will give u the most freedom and thats what were all after right?…playing only on the 2 gives you a very smooth wes/martino sound while playing on the 5 gives a lot harder edged bebop sound like pass or parker…worth knowing all the sounds!

Sometimes, like in giant steps, I think of the V7 as a ii6, which is emharmonic to a rootless V9. Then the trane changes move down by whole steps.

in the charlie parker example at 7.35 parker plays the notes G Bflat D F over the G minor chord 🤷‍♂

Thank you,Jens⭐🌹⭐

Jens what do you think about the idea of having a strong enough visual map of your arpeggios on the fretboard that you can accomplish “targeting” by just going to the closest chord tone of the next chord (or by moving to the closest chord tone that is in the direction of the line you are already playing) because you simply see it? This approach allows me to dive in without overthinking or having to choose my target in advance or worry about the name of the note I am looking for. It works but I wonder if it’s a lazy shortcut and I ought to be doing it the proper way.

Yes, as you said ok beginning of or sounds good everything works. If you treat II as V you get some nice chord extensions while improvising and vice versa. Any way thank you I'm enjoying playing again as never before. Did you check the blues I recorded after finishing your book?

I’m gonna have to go with Martino on this one. Emphasizing the 4th over the V chord sounds way better than emphasizing the 6th over the ii chord most of the time.

Thank you.

god sent truly!

What I find is that the fusion style is more liberating for some reason.

From a theoretical point of view this is very interesting!

Excellent video as always. Do you think it's worth finding a good "leading tone" just prior to the Target Note to help get a smooth change, or is that making things too complicated, given the short amount of time available when improvising?

While I think taking the individual chords into consideration is important when improvising, after all, they are chosen to either support the melody or add colour, they should be approached in as personal a manner as possible. Chord tones are obviously really important but it doesn't mean that we always have to be outlining a chord and I also think we should be looking at the big picture. Where is your musical idea going? Are you leading to a resolution or are you going to come to momentarily rest on some tension. II V Is are very interesting and powerful but can also be very limiting if we all do the same thing all the time. I personally love to somehow alter the V chord with either 'that' scale, or modifying an individual fifth or 9th or third etc as we all know how to do, but if we overly focus on the II we can end up having little way to create that momentum through the dominant chord nor the time to outline or hear that colour. It's the "ever with us" challenge I suppose.

I love the thumbnail 🤣

There’s no contradiction between Barry and Pat btw - it’s just different framing. The Barry thing is not about playing V necessarily but thinking V. I think V and play IIm!

If you can play the dominant chord possible harpegios and scales in a musical way, well exploited, if you can have fun with them then it's up to you if you will sound harsher or more like classic jazz. You can find the subdominant sound, if you want, within any variations of the notes in the apliable dominant scales and harpegios. If you can have fun with any possible modes,scales and harpegios playing with your ears then you are unlimited. And the people comping should just play guide tones when you want to get crazy on your improv. Right? I think training the ear as you practice anything (sing everything) can't be neglected.

The melody doesn't depend on the chords, but both the melody and the chords originate from the scale. So, the question to ask ISN’T “what scale to play when you have a specific chord”, BUT from which scale that chord derives and on which degree it's built. Learn to think this way, and you'll be able to play anything effortlessly, using just four modes: - major - natural minor - harmonic minor - melodic minor The only precaution is to avoid playing a note on the downbeat for every tonal area. It might seem complicated, but it's a matter of habit, and, in any case, it's easier than thinking of a different scale for every chord, which is also theoretically absurd.

No anger here.. great advice!😉

감사합니다.

Good Video! However Martino may also include and did so well a II-7 / V7 ( up 1/2 step and play Minpr ) ? 1Maj7 ( A min - E mi _ etc. Liner Expressions which I know you have observer offered a concept many miss ot on. Activities a strong line that was somewhat composed perhaps, with chord tones on strong beats and relentless time by Martino. I am not saying this is correct at all! I do relate tp reduce to minor generally more than Major. Although you clearly present a strong case for V7 -- Resolve cadential points. Even So what i get students to V& -1mi , My bias? Barry was locked up with time and always moving - intriguing and brilliant harmonically, Martino"s lines were borrowed from that tradition and had a simple ( reductionist way with astounding ears to hear chord tones) way of for him getting there. Martino is terrifying guitarist line games wise. Another view that extrapolated Barry"s thing is Hal Galper. i feel imho Hal really was/ is great at explaining chord tones and gravity among much more. I relate to Martinos"s approach more and know both . AbMaj7 #9. ( C Hamonic Minor derivative etc.... ) . Great video, i see your videos in passing and *always* think, wonderful stuff. Ah yes and time feel is everything! Great day Jens m great video, I was spitting out as i was thinking and typing! :) Pat Martino is not wrong., Either is Barry :) ! ✌🏼

Clicked for the title image, stayed for the jazz.

Am i the only one who thinks the "bad" examples sound good?😭

nice. and I take solace that other are wronger than me... :-)

I have an ignorant newbie question: in jazz (or old standards), is the expected ii-V-I ever composed (or played) instead with a major chord II or II7 (dominant 7) in place of the ii? I mean so that it would be like: V7/V - V - I. E.g., D - G - C or D7-G-C or D7-G7-C instead of d-G-C etc.

8:46 how's that all G7? What you're playing over Dm is pretty much a Dm arpegio. I don't get it

What guitar is Martino playing at 6:29?

I lika baba❤

why is steve jobs in your thumbnail

Show your anger in the comments! Haha. As we say; there’s more than one way to skin a cat. Great lesson for those trying to get into jazz!

Hi! I know I've been posting a lot lately; I just became curious though... Many people see Creative people as somehow Suffering from mental illlness like depressions, anxiety etc etc... What is your take on Creatives like Musicians and mental health? Tips/tricks or your own or close environment experiences? Could you make a Video about it? Don't know if it is appropiate though. Also.... I understand if this is hard to explain since I'm no where near your level, but my teachers at folk högskola couldn't really explain it and no one else I've met,,, "How" should I go about nearing myself to this kind of "soundscape"? I understand that this man is the top 1%, and I don't expect to come close to him, but the sounds, the dynamics and intricacies, I understand some of the techniques on Saxophone, but how would "you" yourself go about something "similar" like this on the Guitar? Especially the 2-4 minute Mark? I just can't get anything out of the sounds besides my personal enjoyment of it and the Dreams and Goals that Accompany it. I understand he is Using a Microphone on his Throat to amplify some sounds and create some Distortion and that he is continually breathing while playing non stop and have amazing technique. My current goals towards this is Learning more Theory, Technique, getting more muscle memory and vocabulary (I think that Vocabulary comes from "thinking" about Music most of the time though., like how I am rehearsing the Major or Minor scale while I try to go to sleep etc.. Get the Theory down and then apply it slowly at first while using a Metronome and increasing tempo regularly) and Increasing my "hearing" so that I can somehow Hear the Underlying Chords/Tonality, where the song goes and how and why; for example if it's a 2-5-1 in C and then goes to another Tonality like Bb etc, because I think that people (myself included) see songs and chord progressions as the whole instead of in Context of the whole "Movement" of a few Chords working their way into the next set of chords/cadences. And do not feel pressured to answer or anything, it might just be that I wouldn't understand either way - Something of a Personal Goal to get closer to this besides the regular Old School Jazz and curiosity towards more experienced Players' experiences with mental health etc. Might be a few Pitfalls to avoid. For example; I have a severe Stutter, which caused me to be very Nervous at times; But I met this man when I was a teenager that had a Much More severe stutter but he stood tall, kept his composure and we all listened Intentively since we all knew he had something amazing to say and share; This experience somehow "Cured" my Nervosity towards public speaking, being nervous in most situations and on stage because the only one being self conscious and thinking about it is me, I don't think anyone else cares whether I stutter or not, even if I am speaking to hundreds of people, it's just my own perceptions. And I just needed the experience and Courage to move past it. In which I find alot of people being nervous when playing in front of people and on stage; It's just that they really don't have to be to be honest. No one is Judging or thinking ill of you, It's only your own perception, which I think in a lot of people Hinders them from reaching newer heights and realising Goals and Dreams or even trying. There really isn't anything to be afraid of, even though a little bit of Nervousness is good.... I would Strongly Recommend the Book; The Courage to be Disliked - Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga; If someone here is Struggling with Confidence and Courage. It is an Invaluable Currency... ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yYDrQWTQoWY.html&ab_channel=ColinStetson-Topic

lol

I’m not angry at you, just at myself for not being able to keep up with beginner oriented content 🤬🤬

Bono? Really? I hope that was a joke. In what universe Bono is a musician?

Not angry, just a little sad....

Whats a hard key??? 🔑 😅😂... thats ridiculous

Sorry, lots of talk and little practice

I am so angry ... That I can't play like Joe Pass or Pat Martino or Jens Larsen!