Illegal Bullets - Season 3 Episode 3 

Lol, free men don't ask for permission.

On the barrel length question, MDT did a good video where the used a 72in barrel in .308 and cut it down inch by inch to test that exact theory.

Your advice Ron is timeless. Thanks for doing this youtube for us. You give us younger guys years of experience for free if we listen. I know most dont but still, thank you so much.

Hornady stopped using the HITS formula a few years ago, largely because it did not take into account bullet construction and grossly underestimated the effectiveness of its monolithic copper-alloy bullets. HITS was very dependent on bullet weight and sectional density, and the lighter copper bullets didn't have a score reflecting how effective they were known to be.

In my godfathers weapons collection he had two big bore Mausers - 1 was 11.5mm anti material a 2 was a 13.5mm anti scout car/ perssonal transport, ive fired both and boy do they kick hard, he also had the original german / ww2 ammo - he took both weapons off German snipers - he was an Army sniper

It's absolutely fantastic to see a firearms oriented channel that concentrates on the ammunition instead of trying to peddle the latest and "greatest" handgun/rifle/shotgun on the market. Wonderful work you are doing here. It would be nice to see a segment on lower velocity loading with cast bullets and maybe a segment on casting bullets. Keep it up!

Our glorious governor in Illinois signed a bill outlawing 50 cal. On the books already are metal-piercing bullets that are illegal. Great site, Ron.

Some States like New Jersey, outlaw hollow point bullets except for New Jersey police. This lead to New York police that travel through New Jersey getting arrested because they carry hollow points. 😂

Thank you Ron for what you do .

You are correct about California banning the 50 BMG cartridge, Barrett develop the 416 Barrett, and if I’m not mistaken, the 416 Chi tech was also developed in response to this.

As always great content ! Thanks Ron .

i think the illegal bullet question was referring more to armor piercing incendiary, tracer, etc.

I think that first quest really comes down to the gas expansion limit. So long as the gas pressure made from the powder keeps expanding the bullet will keep picking up speed. But once the expansion ends the friction of the barrel takes over, which is what happens with .22 cal .

Watching this, I suddenly remembered pictures I have seen of the Nazi's Paris Siege Gun,

I tested the .22 Long Rifle myself with a 16.5" barrel an 18" barrel and a 22" barrel. The ones I had. I used the same ammunition in all three and my little test showed the 16.5 to be slow by quite a bit and the 18 in barrel to be 4 fps faster than the 22 inch barrel. The two longer barrels were quite a bit faster than the 16 inch barrel. The fastest was the 18 inch barrel and it was a semi-auto rifle while the other two were bolt actions.

In some places Armor Piercing Bullets might be Illegal such as Milt. Surplus Black Tip .30-06 or Tracer Ammo.

I'd like to see some of the older calibers make a comeback. I've always wanted a 257 Roberts ,300 Savage and 32 Winchester Special. The 257 has always been a cartridge that has interested me. Where I live up here in the NC mountains, 100 yrds and less is the average distances we shoot at. A short, light bolt action with a 3×9 scope chambered in the 257 would be absolutely perfect for deer hunting. The light recoil would make even a 5 lb rifle a dream to carry and shoot and the 257 with a 117 gr bullet is a surprisingly effective deer round from everything I've read. And the 32 Special is just a cool sounding name for a cartridge and more effective on deer than a 30-30 from everything I've read back when we actually had real magazines to read. I'm a big lever action fan and always will be because they are so light and easy to handle in the woods. They also have a fit and feel that no other rifle has. I guess that all of the hot new calibers are great, but personally I don't think that they do anything that the good ol calibers can't do. The old 06 is still the most versatile caliber around and always will be. I just like the older calibers that served their purpose perfectly fine the way they were. If a bow hunter can get to 35 yrds of a trophy elk and make the kill, why do rifle hunters think that they have to make 600 yrd shots to get the very same trophy? It just doesn't seem logical to me except that they can brag about the half a mile shot that they made. The closer you get the less things there are to go wrong and have a chance of losing your game. If you can get close then you can brag about how good of a hunter you are. That's just me, so whatever rocks your socks is cool as long as you have the skill and discipline to know when to not pull the trigger. That's the important part of hunting. You've got to know your limits and have the discipline to not go beyond those limits. Keep up the great work Ron. You're an awesome guy with a wealth of knowledge to share and we appreciate you sharing that knowledge with all of us, young and old.

Thank you for producing all the quality shows that you do I watch you for an extensively long period of time thank you again

As for the legality of ammunition- I am a FFL holder and I have posed this questions to atf and here is the answer I got, which I subsequently read in the regs: no particular ammunition in and of its self is illegal to possess, buy, or sell, in other words, it's not regulated, EXCEPT for armor piercing pistol or handgun ammunition. Here's where it gets a little more broad: no rifle ammunition is regulated, including armor piercing ammunition AS LONG AS IT IS USED IN A RIFLE. So, for example, you can have steel core 7.62x39 or 5.56 as long as you are using it in a rifle. However, if you have a pistol in that caliber, you can not use that ammunition in it because that's a pistol and now you're using "armor piercing pistol ammunition". So, any ammunition is legal as long as it's not AP or not used in a pistol. Now, I read that and spoke to the atf agent about it more than twenty minutes ago so the regulation light have changed, so I say do your own research, ask questions for yourself, and stay out of trouble with the atf. I hope that somewhat helps.

I have been building custom guns for the past 41 years… I built a .220 Swift on a Mauser action with a 28-1/2” 416 stainless 1-8 twist barrel a few years ago… I wanted to shoot the 75 plus grain bullets. It is a really nice shooting rifle… I shot 2 factory 50 grain bullets (Old Remington Green Box)… they did not fly apart, but they did reach 4287 on my chronograph… that is 385,830 rpm… I pulled the other 18 bullets. That being said, my buddy dropped a nice buck antelope with my rifle at 196 yards with a 75 grain Swift Scirocco and I took my goat with my 42” rifles barreled .62 caliber flintlock… so some of us still pack long guns. Thank you for another informative video.

Great stuff, Ron!💪🏽

You talk just like my step father. Everything about ammo,handloading etc. I love it! Thank you for the very educative videos as always!🤘

Love the advice and experiences, wisdom. Think the illegal bullet question, goes to local gun laws, cali, and hunting regs.😊 They tend to frown , on blk tallons, rino killers, armor piercing, cop killers, and explosive tip. FMJ for hunting.Just to save him a visit from the ATF.😳😳 Ask a class 2 gunsmith, he'll know.and keep you out of jail.

Good video Ron, thank you for posting this video !!

Great information! Thank You!

I have also read about irregular pressure spikes in certain low charge cartridges, it sounds like the powder is of such low density , that when laid horizontal the primer ignites the top layer. Im assuming the burn rate of the powder plays a factor in what happens next

Ron, I believe that Armor piecing and tracer bullets are illegal in many places. Tracers for the fire hazard and armor piercing for the obvious reason.. At one time a lot of surplus 30-06 ammo in these configurations were on thee market.

Great podcast, thanks...

Your memory about .50 BMG in California is correct. I think the CA legislature got scared by the first Robocop movie that used a dressed up Barret as a prop for some of the bad guys.

You're doing a great job Ron the only bullet I can remember being outlaws was the Winchester talon

That's the can of worms that will bring out all the "chiseled in stone" answers, optimum barrel length. Years ago, probably more than 30, a gun guru took a Remington 700 in .223 Rem and started cutting the barrel down in 1" increments, starting length 24". I do not remember the ammo used but It was not a handload. In the chronograph testing, the velocity increased until around 20", then began the expected decrease. I found it fascinating enough to remember most of the data. In my own reloading experience, I would choose a slower burning powder with that longer barrel. A little slower powder may make a considerable difference in that long barrel. As you've stated on many occasions, there are a lot of variables in load work up that eliminates a "chiseled in stone" answer. Okay, there is one answer that always fits ......"It depends".

Your content is always welcomed.. Thank you

Most people don't realize that tracer rounds are regulated as “explosive materials” under federal law, and that the ATF has many special rules related to the purchase, sale, storage, and transportation of tracer rounds (including the requirement that both the buyer and seller of tracer rounds hold a federal explosives ...found this on illegal bullets. Thought it was regulated when you talked about illegal bullets.

You are correct sir, California is the place where you will find crazy laws on bullets. If I am not mistaken, San Francisco county made ALL hollow-point rounds illegal about 6-8 years ago. I think that rule still stands today.

6.5 Grendel, I love it for black tail, perfect lil round.

Thanks again Ron , how about discussing moly coated bullets ? Been shooting them for 25 years with good results !……

always love the vids

The .22lr has some interesting characteristics in rifles because it is such a small powder load. It's rimfire produces a superior powder ignition over most centerfire primers in that it creates a shockwave around the rear of the casing that creates a compressive blast. The primer itself is what causes the bullet to start traveling unlike larger ammunition types - the rear of the .22lr bullet is a spindled-cup that is forced against the barrel by pressure much like the pellets for a pellet rifle. .22lr is sensitive to barrel temperatures as well, I've got an old Ruko M20 with the heavier barrel, about 2.5x the mass that the Ruger 10/22 has in its barrel and the first five or six rounds fired on a hot day perform differently! The performance of a .22lr is also changed by the firing mechanism since there's no engagement on any of the semi-autos in the caliber it suffers from a fairly violent cycle but in bolt action .22lr you will get much better performance and, honestly, cleaner barrels after firing a lot of rounds. Since .22lr is "junk" ammunition not a lot of care is put into it, even with the garbage all the companies are calling "long range", so if you're going to do .22lr don't worry about the ammo; green and white box is good enough and just find a gun that works very well for you. To be honest since they're so cheap you should have a .22lr bolt in your collection for teaching and practice.

Ron I truly enjoy your podcasts and learn something new everytime. I have used the 58gr v-max bullet from Hornady for years in a 243 Winchester. They are moving right along and are deadly when shot placement is used properly out to 300 yds. After that the energy isn't there for deer sized game. I've killed coyotes much further than 300 yds but even then. The 243 Winchester is dropping pretty rapidly as there's no momentum left to carry it out there much further. Years of experience and ethics limit my choice for the light bullet. Shot placement is critical even at closer ranges. The v-max is designed with the pelt hunter in mind. It fragments with dramatic effects on anything under 300 yds. Thanks for sharing your experience and wisdom with the rest of us, happy hunting.

As always good show. On the last coyote question. I'd either use a 22 Creedmoor or the wildcat 22-243, or the venerable 22-250. Either one will push that bullet north of 4200fps and you can get a higher BC bullet out of the mix.

I'd buy a Ron Spomer hat!

I’ve been studying this issue for a while. I came up with my own arbitrary definition of what is acceptable minimum barrel length. That is when the additional velocity gain per inch of barrel length is 1% of the muzzle velocity of the bullet at that barrel length. Based on data I have collected from other people’s tests on the Internet And some spreadsheet calculations, I estimate that a .308 (with a 150 or 168 grain bullet, I forget which) reaches ~2500fps at 16”, and the velocity gain per inch is 25 fps. The velocity gain per inch drops about 1 fps per inch of barrel length so at 17” you get another 24 fps, at 18” you get another 23 fps, all the way out to about 40 inches where, as you said the velocity levels off. A similar trend applies with .223/5.56 NATO. 2800 fps at 19”, and you get an additional 28 fps per inch of barrel length. I got this value from averaging the velocity of a whole lot of cartridges and bullet weights (that other people fired and shared their data on the Internet). This is the average for that cartridge, not for any given load. Clearly, the more overbore the cartridge and the lighter the bullet, the longer barrel you need to take advantage of the powder. Thanks to rifleshooter.com and ballisticsbytheinch.com, to start with, for their data. Hopefully, as time passes, I will have it together enough to make public my spreadsheet, along with citations to all of the people who did the testing. Thanks for all you do, RON!

The Swedish M39B seems to be illegal in Texas since it's a 9mm Armor Piercing.

The barrel question the calculation is specific to the type of powder used. Some powders create greater gas volume in a shorter period of time and you would see greater diminishing returns with a longer barrel and could cause problems with chamber over pressure, but choosing a slower burning powder when handloading for a rifle with a longer barrel will cause less chamber stress and will allow you to use much longer barrels. The point of diminishing ( velocity) return would with a slower burning powder based on the amount of friction a specific bullet has in that type of barrel ( in pounds per square inches) and the length when the volume of the barrel is able to be filled with greater in pressure with the expanding gases. I saw a comment about the experiment and had head about it before but I’ve never seen the video they reference but that experiment is only meaningful based upon that specific bullet they were using, the specific type of powder used in those shells, and (to a lesser degree) the material the barrel is made out of. Any findings become far less meaningful just by switching the powder, the bullets, or even sometimes the manufacturer lot on those items since there is always a little variation no matter how much the manufacturers try for consistency.

I took a small mule deer one time with a 22.250. 6.5 Swedish Mauser with a 24" bull barrel, 14 lbs with scope. It was about 100 yards. Hit him in the backbone which exploded into the heart and he dropped dead. It's not all about how you hit, it's what you hit.

Thanks!

I like that wall plaque.

Good show variety👍

Thanks for all your videos ! Really informative .How many times do you reload your cartridges before replacing and do you anneal your case when preparing them ?

New Jersey has a ban on hollow point ammo. Other places ban ammo containing lead. Its to the point you need to check the local laws yourself.

Lethality debate In 1982, NBC broadcast a television special on Teflon-coated bullets that argued they were a serious threat to American law enforcement because of their supposedly increased ability to penetrate ballistic vests. This led various US gun control organizations to label these types of bullets with the epithet "cop killers". In 1983, US Representative Mario Biaggi reported that Du Pont Company officials agreed to stop selling teflon to individuals and companies that used it to make ammunition.[4] Several calibers of KTW rounds were proven to penetrate ballistic vests under certain conditions. However, their inventor Kopsch said in a 1990 interview that "adding a Teflon coating to the round added 20% penetration power on metal and glass. Critics kept complaining about Teflon's ability to penetrate body armor [...] In fact, Teflon cut down on the round's ability to cut through the nylon or Kevlar of body armor."[2] Legal status United States The federal ban on armor-piercing pistol ammunition uses only the composition of the bullet's core to determine legality.[5] However, many individual states have legislation restricting various kinds of coating materials, for example: Alabama state law provides that "the possession or sale of brass or steel teflon-coated handgun ammunition is illegal anywhere within the State of Alabama".[6] Hawaii state law prohibits the "manufacture, possession, sale, barter, trade, gift, transfer, or acquisition of ... any type of ammunition or any projectile component thereof coated with teflon or any other similar coating designed primarily to enhance its capability to penetrate metal or pierce protective armor."[7] Kansas state laws states possessing, manufacturing, causing to be manufactured, selling, offering for sale, lending, purchasing or giving away any cartridge which can be fired by a handgun and which has a plastic-coated bullet that has a core of less than 60% lead by weight, whether the person knows or has reason to know that the plastic-coated bullet has a core of less than 60% lead by weight is unlawful.[8] North Carolina state law specifically forbids persons in that state to "import, manufacture, possess, store, transport, sell, offer to sell, purchase, offer to purchase, deliver or give to another, or acquire any Teflon-coated bullet".[9] Oklahoma - Teflon-coated bullets are illegal in Oklahoma under some circumstances.[10] Oregon state law forbids the possession of any handgun ammunition, the bullet or projectile of which is coated with Teflon while committing or intending to commit a felony.[11] Pennsylvania state law provides that "It is unlawful for any person to possess, use or attempt to use a KTW teflon-coated bullet or other armor-piercing ammunition while committing or attempting to commit" certain enumerated "crime[s] of violence".[12] South Carolina state law specifically bans "ammunition or shells that are coated with polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon)".[13] Virginia state law specifically bans "bullets, projectiles or other types of ammunition that are: coated with or contain, in whole or in part, polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) or a similar product" while committing or attempting to commit a crime.[14]

My first big bore rifle was a 1891 Argentine 7.65 Mauser with a 28" barrel. The nod to making it a sporting rifle was a turned down bolt and shorting the stock. When I got some more money I added Lyman peep sight and a nice front ramp. I also shortened the barrel by 4". I don't know how much velocity I lost but WOW did the muzzle flash increase. The only ammo I could get was re-manufactured military at first, then I made a friend that had a reloading setup and I bought a set of dies. The 7.65 Mauser took the same sized bullet as the .303 British, .312, which at that time came in 150 & 180 grain. Being able to hand-load sure saved me a lot of time and effort in cleaning after shooting military ammo with corrosive primers, no more boiling water to clean the barrel out.t other Armor piercing bullets are now illegal. Years ago they were not because they were on the surplus ammo market. They were forbidden at the rifle range so I would take paint thinner and remove the brown paint from the bullet tip. Year around I shot 40 rounds of .30-06 every Friday then go on to shoot my other rifles or pistols.

IMO, Ron, I believe that question on illegal bullets was directed to steel core, or armor piercing rounds.

Thank you

On barrel length, P O Ackly did a lot of work trying to get a few more foot per seconds out of cartriges that were 'staightened' and sholders pushed forwards. Good stuff.

It'd be interesting if you did something on gun modifications. I have/had a book on improving rifle accuracy where it told of several little things. But like it mentioned using a gritty material to smooth the bore out, then cryogenic treatment of the barrel. I do not know, but it'd seem both of these would reduce friction in the barrel.

Regarding bullet diameters, keep in mind that there are TWO measurements of interest: bore diameter and bullet diameter. The bullet must be wider than the bore, in order to fill the rifling. Typically, a bullet is 7 or 8 thousandths bigger than the bore. Thus a 30 caliber bore is 0.3 inches, but the bullet for it is 0.308 inches. Another interesting one is the .257; lots of "old-timers" or people who are really into the 257 caliber call them the "quarter bore," because the bore is exactly a quarter inch. 7mm = 0.276" bore but uses a 0.284" bullet. etc.

Once fired cases should always be full length resized before you reload them for your rifle just in case the rifle they were originally fired in was a bit oversized! It would be terrible to reload 100 rounds and then find the won't chamber in your rifle! After they've been fired in your rifle, if you want to keep from work hardening your brass by only neck sizing. However, I always full length size all my brass in case my hunting buddy needs to borrow a couple rounds sometime, or if I have two rifles chambered for the same cartridge!!

An armor piercing round (the complete cartridge) is illegal in the US. However, the projectile isn't. Therefore if one can obtain a .308 AP bullet, he can legally hand load it into a .308 cartridge.

Hey Ron! Always like having the 6mm Remington mentioned. That was the centerfire I learned distance marksmanship on; my dad's old R700 varminter to be exact. (Early 70s vintage, 24" bull barrel). We worked up a load with this new bullet Hornady had released, the 55gr "super explosive" for the woodchuck that were digging up our fields. (The bullet had a thinner than average jacket, just enough to remain cohesive at around 3750fps. Above that it would break apart mid flight.) Loaded right at the edge of that, fully tuned up, my dad and I were shooting about .1 MOA. Fun to be pinging a target at 300 yards and ending up with 3 round groupings that you could cover with a quarter. Honestly ruined me (a little bit) for less accurate rifles. But it did foster an interest in extreme ballistics! So on to my question; Back in the day I had "The Book of .22." that talked extensively about the caliber and as many wildcats and production cartridges as they could get good numbers on. Naturally the .220 swift was featured, the comparison between it and the .22-250 discussed, etc. But what really tickled my 12 year old imagination was the .226 barnes. IIRC the numbers quoted in the book were a 125gr bullet, at around 2450fps. Have you heard of that cartridge? I'm curious if something like that might make a comeback given the trend towards higher BC bullets, especially in the PRC line. I could see a .22 PRC driving a modern 125gr 22 bullet at ~2700 fps being very popular as a long range match round. What do you think?

As per the first question I've lived the mistake of trying to deer hunt with a 28" barrel on a 12 gauge. Heavy brush slowed me way down.

I believe California outlawed bullets containing lead in certain areas.

More good stuff.

Ron, check out ballistics by the nice. Several cartridges slow down or increase slowly after 16”

My favorite hunting rifle has a 28 inch barrel, thin profile. I get really good speeds from 150gr boat tails from a 7.62x63 cartridge, and the rifle is not too heavy or long to move through rough country on foot.

We are missing Covey. When will your sidekick put in an appearance?

Ron, I'll go with you being that good 👍🏼. Keep up the great work and thanks to both you and the team for this great resource.

Need a fast twist 270 video! Thanks uncle Ron 😅

The partial or neck sizing question does not apply to auto loaders. You should always full length resize brass tired from a semi auto

In reference to sizing cases that are only going to be shot in the same rifle, the Lee ultimate die set comes with an extra die that only resizes the neck. I’ve been reloading 223 for a while for AR’s so I haven’t worried with using it, but I just got a bolt action 223 last weekend. I loaded 50 rounds the other night that were fired in that rifle so we’ll see if it makes much of a difference next weekend.

Of course in the muzzle loader flintlock days, a 42 inch or longer barrel was quite common, even for hunting. Find a bullet with a higher BC and it'll do as much or more for you as a couple inches of barrel.

26:03 is where Ron gets to the title.

Bullet placement plays a bigger role then the caliber does

Good, Thx

You should do a video of forgotten cool old rounds...like the 218 bee or 219 zipper or 22hornet or 32-20 or 38-55 Alot of early firearms and why they are obsolete now...well not totally gone but harder to find...i remember seeing some weird 44 cal pistol but wasn't a 44 rem magnum...

IMHO: I REALLY LIKE "LONGER BARRELS!!!... REMEMBER THAT THE LONG FLINTLOCK BARREL GUNS WORKED WELL, AND WERE ONCE THE "STATE OF THE ART" IN RIFLES!!... AND THEY CAN BE BEAUTIFUL!!...

The barrel length vs velocity also depends on gunpowder grain. Something like short flake for pistols will burn off faster (and probably blow out your chamber on a shouldered case) vs something long rod.

I have been saying it is the length of the bullet that is important for stabilizing the bullet for a given twist rate for years. Everyone I know that hand loads says it is the weight. i am glad to see someone with your knowledge confirm what I have been saying.

The barrel length issue...have the same conversation with folks about pistol barrel length all the time...would be interesting to see an actual in-depth experiment of that.

I wonder if the bullet question was asking about specialty rounds like armor piercing, tungsten core or tipped bullets, specialty rounds used in shotguns for military or police specific tasks. Tracer rounds may be banned in certain categories of land to prevent fires?

I couldn't listen to this entire segment, but the first couple letters and responses were (in my opinion and experience...), dead on! As far as bullets extending into the cartridge case.... bullet bases expand under pressure when they meet the resistance of the engraving of that bullet in the rifling. High pressures causing this "bumping up" of the bullets base, help seal the bore for uniform pressures and prevent damage to the bullets base during its travel down the barrel. BUT.... You don't want the base expanding too much while it's still below the neck/shoulder junction in the case.... because THAT will cause an escalation in pressures in the chamber. Escalations in pressures like that, will eventually cause ununiform and/or potential dangerous pressures. That wil cause bad accuracy, and eventually ruin cartridge cases (if not other over pressure symptoms). Throat and leade length are crucial when dealing with overly long bullet lengths. Of course rifling twist rates are of big concerns also.

We also have to take into account the type of powder used. Some powder burns really fast for pistol barrel length, and other powders will burn slower for rifle length barrels. I also need to consider the type of country I am hunting in as to what I am going to use. If I am in wide open flat grasslands versus very scrubby chaparral or heavily wooded areas or extremely hilly terrain, or canyonlands, I cannot take nearly as many long range shots. Shooting across a canyon at game no matter how tempting it looks may result in a carcass that is impossible to retrieve, or a serious injury from trying.

The bullet velocity vs bullet speed question has me wanting to see the results with extreme length barrels (10+ ft) as a fun scientific experiment.

We have an alternative to the 50 bmg here in California. It's called the 50 dtc. Very similar.

Look up flame fronts in combustion chambers, pressure/heat can differ in spots.

In reference to the bullet being "bent" when seated deep into the case ... only time I've heard of this before was from an old timer 40 years ago who was introducing me to reloading. He was adamant about seating depth using cast bullets, stating that if seated too deep into a compressed load, they could be deformed. On a side note, his first lesson was to hand me Vol1 & Vol2 of P.O. Ackleys handbook for reloaders, shooed me out of his reload room and told me to come back when I had read and understood them. I still have those two books on my shelf today!

In regards to bullet sizes you can get a reloader's manual from say Hornady and that should list all the sizes and a lot of other ballistic information. Its more work than a chart.

I have been waiting for this one. How about coated bullets, and velocity.

Knew someone who hunted exclusively from “condos” across expansive fields, creek bottoms, etc. He used a 36” bbl. .300 Wby. All of the windows had padded rests that would look good at a rifle range. He firmly believed that the extra velocity had put a lot of meat in the freezer. Also had to modify the roof on his side by side to accommodate the longer barrel. It’s all about what you’re willing to put up with.

Barrel length discussion is really interesting. You discussed the practical maximum lengths of barrel’s, and what stands out in my memory is some testing of military barrels. One Study was on how short can a barrel be made before accuracy and velocity starts to become impractical. One interesting result was seen with progressive shorting of a barrel. The testing started with a standard length barrel with a specific bullet and powder. The barrel was shortened by a small amount, until accuracy and velocity degraded. Most barrels could be shortened significantly before large changes in velocity and accuracy.

Nice job

A 155mm howitzer has a much longer barrel than 40 inches, and it's all about getting enough velocity.

I think he was asking about which bullets were illegal. For example, steel or tungsten cored projectiles.

Also the burn rate of the powder would determine barrel length. Also with open sights accuracy due to sight length becomes a factor.

The .17 or .177 is the 4.5 mm. I only know that because of buying quality European pellets for my son’s magnum Gamo he got during Covid lockdowns. Even back then, pellets were hard to find for both .177 and .22.

Hi Rob. Love your Podcasts. .17 cal = 4.318mm easy to work out just x .17 x 25.4 = 4.318

I remember i had a bunch of black talons when they became illegal in Michigan in 357.

CA banned 50bmg, AP, tracer, incendiary(including dragons breath) and flachette, however, 12 gauge tracers are LEGAL. san fran and new jersey banned hollow points, and maybe other states/cities have too, this is from memory. AP pistol cartridges are banned nation wide. Edit: CA did not ban 50 cal, just specifically 50bmg.

The "odd" size of the 38 is from a change from an older round that used a heel crimp bullet. It used a bullet that was .38 inch in diameter, the same as the case size, when they went smokeless powder and higher pressure they increased the case length and went to a bullet was changed to be set inside the case it became a bullet diameter of .357. The 44 went through the same prosses.

this round has been around for a long time and it is still being used today