John thanks for the excellent content as always. Do you think you should include the Steinway & Sons processors like the P300 even though they seem to be the same company as Lyngdorf? It almost seems like a Denon/Marantz type of connection.
Yes - I would like to branch into the 2-channel solutions. Steinway licenses that name to Lyngdorf and share the same website root. Lyngdorf makes the McIntosh MX180 flagship while Marantz covers the MX123. Cool stuff! -Jon
Great research and content Jon. We use Auro 3D with its proprietary Auromatic upmixing technology on 80% of our sources but also enjoy Dolby Atmos & DTS:X at times depending on how the upmixing sounds. With two channel upmixing, Dolby and or DTS:X will sometimes win out due to the overpowering of the heights in Auro 3D which occasionally sound muddled with the reverb generator in Auromatic. Sources coded in multi channel almost always get the Auro 3D selection due to the enhanced bass and more natural sounds from the heights in our family’s opinion. Even Roger Dressler of Dolby labs has high praise for Auro 3D. We rarely watch movies with it as Dolby Atmos will add the two extra height channels in our 7.2.6 system (vs 4 with Auro 3D). One thing is for certain though …once you go immersive you’ll never go back. It’s like the technology leap from mono to stereo. We wouldn’t consider a system without all three immersive formats being offered. Our McIntosh MX123 processor does an outstanding job in that department. And thank you to Wilfried Van Baelen for his creation of immersive audio using Auro 3D in 2005! A pioneer in the audio field. Thanks again Jon and keep the great comparisons coming. Signed…a subscriber for life. :-)
Jack - All formats? easy as 123. I know you would like Auro 3D / Auromatic portions. So little equipment with all three. It just seems odd given the number of years that have passed since introduction. Given your need for all formats - you made a very good choice.-Jon
@@ripewave ...I wish I could say I saw the future or immersive coming Jon but I just happened to choose a company that is known for quality and the similarity with Marantz from which we upgraded. It's a great partnership that makes a lot of sense and has given us a lot of options in the immersive arena once we discovered it.
Thanks John ..excellent video… Wanted to go for an Anthem but unfortunately it does not support Auro 3D; in particular my speakers are installed for Auro 3D; means having height speakers instead top mounted speakers.
Francois - certainly having your speakers aligned for Auro 3D makes makes support for that format a must have. Everything I hear is positive about the experience. I haven’t heard any rumors that Anthem will be adding. Anthem initially had on their website that dts:X Pro was supported but dropped a few weeks later.-Jon
Helpful, but would like to see data in what format(s) are being used in streaming/media. It seems much higher content is in Atmos, then DTS X. Rarely if ever see Auro 3D content.
John Thank you for excellent explanation .But i didn't hear about Anthem avm70.I get a good deal on EBAY bought .For the future HDMI board we will be updated like 2.1DTX pro and HDR+ What do you think it is a good item.Thank you .
I like Anthem and the AVM70 is well executed. I believe the HDMI 2.1 board should be available this year as the AVM90 which released in January has it. The dts:X Pro support has not been confirmed. Anthem posted support on their website in 2019 when first announced then removed before they shipped.-Jon
@@ripewave fast forward 5 months. I know they have an "upgrade" if you want AVM70 with 8k support, but I don't see anything about DTS:X Pro support. HTP-1 from Monoprice had rumors of DTS:X Pro support even 2 years ago, but they went silent... can't even get an HTP-1 right now...
Nice video. I presume the delay in AVR/Pre-Pros adopting Dolby Vision in particular is because projectors do not yet support it. I believe most will pass through DV as well as HDR formats. Now that prices skyrocketed, I’ll just hold out until prices relax or the next generation comes along. As it is, many of the pre-pros are not in stock anyway.
I think the reason why Auro 3D still does not grovs as fast as the other formats is because there is not enough content in the US market, compared to the European market, where there are movies and music videos with Auro 3D. But it might get better now with the upmixer.
Its growing faster than DTS:X-Pro. Its frustrating that Pro has such low adoption because processors with channel counts higher than 12 need it to use every channel. It should be a no-brainer but here we are.
Yes - the strong reviews and community feedback regarding the Auromatic upmixer have saved Auro 3d. It’s adoption is growing 8 years after introduction. -Jon
dts appears to lost right now. Dolby has always been great at marketing and dts historically had the better technology. But with immersive audio dts has not been discussed as having the technical advantage as with prior formats. Pro tries to compete with the channel counts that Atmos has delivered from the start.-Jon
@@ripewave honestly, DTS should tout the Neural-X upmixer like Auro touts Auromatic. With Auromatic being limited to a maximum of 13.1 channels, Neural-X would be the superior upmixer for higher channel counts. In addition, the ability to use Neural-X during DTS:X playback to upmix the channel-based content to additional channels (like Wides and Top-Middles) while still leaving the sound Objects to do their thing. This is far superior to the current implementation of Atmos which many sound designers are simply using locked 7.1.2 bed channels or 7.1.4 locked objects in the height plane and leaving the additional speakers in higher channel counts silent. Its mind-numbing.
No one seems to be talking about the dts upmixer. The whole idea of object based surround is to let the object move around to the speakers which are in the modeled path not to lock to specific channels - I agree nutty.-Jon
This is the exact research I have been doing to figure out what processor or receiver I want. Gotta have Atmos, Auro3D and DTS:X-Pro. That severely limits my options. I also didnt realize that Dolby Vision had that kind of limited penetration as well, so thats something else to consider.
By now I would have expected full penetration in the market for all three - at least most brands having one or more models with that full capability. Instead they pick and choose to deduct cost. However, at the $5000+ level why is that cost savings a factor? -Jon
@@ripewave I can understand a more limited penetration for Auro3D considering its additional cost to manufacturers and the limited number of native releases. But the limited penetration of DTS:X-Pro is shocking to me. Especially considering how wide spread basic 11.1 DTS:X is. Its in almost as many receivers and processors as Atmos. And Neural-X seems to be the preferred upmixer by far (aside from those with Auromatic capability) Currently my plan is to get a Denon X6700H for 7.1.6 (using Front and Rear Heights for Auro compatibility) and to keep an eye out for a 16 channel preamp that can do all three formats and also has Pro enabled. Currently not found for under $12000
I am very surprised at the slow uptake on dts:x Pro as well given their strong brand recognition. I can’t help to think there is some behind the scenes reasons which don’t get broadcasted - high licensing fees? Certification programs? Hard to say. Yes the Denon X6700 covers a lot for a reasonable price. The Marantz AV8805A may be the only under $5K processor with all the formats. Next up is the McIntosh MX123 then you are over $10K.-Jon
ATMOS is the big winner so far .dts x is great for movies but no good for music AURO 3D I paid for the upgrade for my reciever DENON but sad to say there not doing well I love the layout for it my DENON is the 7200 WA model
I think the effects of room correction really out weigh some of these other "niche" immersion audio formats. I think the best bet right now is an onkyo/pioneer/integra product, get the best room correction through dirac and wait until they get an auro 3d update. I dont think its a good idea to check all the boxes now in a product.
Onkyo/Pioneer/Integra have certainly put together a strong mix of features at a reasonable price. I hope they introduce a processor separate as in the past.-Jon
Once you hear Auro3D auromatic upmixer you can't go back to plain atmos. At least that's the way it is for me. The height speakers just play more content with Auro3D upmixer enabled and it sounds natural. I just wish more receivers supported Auro3D. Some of those receivers that do support it don't support the Voice of God channel which kind of bites as well.
Well it's not that the top speaker is that important it is nice having it though. It's more that with auromatic more content is played through the height speakers so the whole mix sounds fuller. I would say some atmos effects are more precise but they are sparsely used unfortunately.
Thanks for the explanation of the voice of god channel and how it makes the experience richer. If we do another home project those pipes that are in the way may be relocated making way for the god speaker.-Jon
No thank you on Auro3D, the best surround sound you can get today is Atmos in video games…js movies will catch up, it’s all up to the audio engineer on the project to determine how good the sound will be regardless of format. BOOM!! P.S. LOVE your work Jon!!
This is crazy!! Inflation at its best. The denon 4700h was $1599 when it came / when I bought mine and now everything has skyrocketed. Ppl who are just getting these AVRs have no clue 🤦🏽. This is ridiculous.
They need to be careful or they will price themselves out of what is already a niche market. I would like to see them keep the hobby accessible to those with modest budgets to spend of these toys -Jon
@@ripewave Exactly!! I really hope ppl are not buying at these prices. I went through a home theater overall at the end of 2020 since the pandemic had us locked up indoors, I decided to turn a spare room into a movie room. Bought all new equipment. And now everything I bought at the time has increased astronomically in price. I bought the flagship klipsch rf 7iii for $ 1799 Each×2 almost 2yrs ago and now the same speakers are $2199 each. That's $4400 /pair for a speaker that debuted in 2018. The prices should remain the same or drop in price..not increasing!! I sure won't be buying anything anytime soon!!! Ridiculous.
I am having trouble confirming that Anthem supports dts:X Pro. I just consulted their website and manual. While they mention dts:X support, there is no mention of dts:X Pro. Is there something you can point me to? When the new range was launched November 2020, they had advertised dts:X Pro support, but then dropped all references to it a few months later. Let me know if you have knowledge they are not promoting well. -Jon
There is a group of strong Auro3D up mix fans. I have yet to try as my speaker layout is based on Atmos. What I will try is faking out the AVR and call my ceiling speakers heights.-Jon
