Full walk through of the process of laying out and bending full length 2 x 4 x .120 frame rails that get both hard way and easy way bends on the same tube.
When you see something that looks like it was easy to make but then you dwell on it and you slowly realise just how overwhelmingly brilliant it is and hiw much work it took to get to thst point.
Thank you for this most informative and interesting walk-through. You are definitely the master of this machine, clued into its various peculiarities. Cheers from Michael. Australia.
I always wondered just exactly how one of these machines was set up, and I'll freely admit that I was under the impression that the machine did almost all the setup, in a CNC or robotic / automated type fashion. I have a new respect for just how much goes into a pair of these frame rails.. Thanks!
@@Nigel2Zoom The machine He's using in His vids costs a fortune.. I once got a quote for a mandrel bender to do strictly exhaust tubing, and was quoted $180,000 ( with some tooling) in the late 90’s.. I don't even want to ask what His costs in 2023 money.
At $100k for another machine, it would be 300 tooling changes to break even. Plus the huge footprint it would eat up just sitting around For when its needed. I would say currently my bending is 85% hardway only.
Very cool it shows the amount of work it takes I have a suggestion Why dont you have a shelf to your right of the bender for the dies And mount a swing arm on the wall above the bender with a electric winch the dies aren’t so heavy that it wouldn’t work it would drastically reduce your changeover time !!! No more moving the gantry around
Because there are other things over there. Its funny how people focus on the gantry drastically adding time to the process. It literally takes 2 min to move the gantry and die cart into place. On an hour tool change i am not sweating a couple mins. Plus the wall is not much of a wall, it is there just as a dust barrier, metal studs and drywall, so i dont trust it hold a swing arm or the tooling. If anything a jib crane would be a better option but the space and cost are not worth it
@@cornfieldcustoms I added a I 3x4 H beam in my roof and trolleys from HF chain blocks too Omg it’s a game changer If you used some I beam and built your own it would be cheap I love seeing the mandrel bender work it’s impressive
@@cornfieldcustoms not yet but I'm saving up for one. I have an original 1969 Coronet frame blueprint which outlines everything but I'm not sure how to translate it into actionable steps.
Lol... I don't know about everyone else, but being a Machinist, Welder, Fitter, Fabricator, Millwright, and owning multiple businesses... this is my kind of porn my friend... lol, you're definitely a " hitter "! KUDO'S to your work ethics, and perfectly transparent path during this segment, coupled with exact conveyance verbally... well done sir! In my 63 years on this earth... gentlemen such as yourself, have been a pleasure to have spent my time with... Thank you, Seth
Have you sent these kind of rails to New Zealand? What's the shipping worth? Because I like radius rather than mitre joins, and got RHS laser cut so I could have a radius instead of a mitre
I swear you could probably do this in you're sleep. Amazing how you can do all this while talking to the camera, looking totally at ease and making both frame rails .......in under 50 minutes. 🤣 Beautiful craftsmanship. Ya gained a sub! 👍
At the beginning, I was imagining “hard way / easy way”, as a difference in technique, not the tube orientation. Ain’t nuthin’ “easy”, about any of this. Short of having another bender setup for the alternate orientation, this is a labor intensive and experience / skill dependent job. You’ve given me a increased appreciation for this work, as, my own experience has been with round tubing. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching. I dont want another bender currently, even though it would make life much easier. At 100k tooled out the door and taking up a 20x10 foot print as well as swing clearance is just a lot of extra money and space
@@cornfieldcustoms I was thinking that was a very expensive piece of equipment, just the large chunks of machined steel ain't cheap. Going to take a while just to pay for it's self so I guess you need to be working it a lot? How does the mandrel 'work'? I imagine it's some sort of sections to allow it to flex even though it looks solid with only 3 moveable support pieces in video? Have you done a vid on the parts and pieces?
I have wondered for decades how this was done. My curiosity is now assuaged. If I only had the years left to design and build a custom vehicle and enjoy.
Man... It's a ton of work to get all the bends right. I totally understand about the setup for any given operation. I go through it to machine parts... The setup takes an hour or more and the machining often takes just a few minutes... Everyone thinks the setup time doesn't cost anything! Thanks for showing all the detail. It's interesting to see.
Same thing for diagnostics. I was a pro mechanic from about 1980 to 2002. I basically got in when we were still rebuilding every accessory (starters, generators, alternators, carburetors, ect.) through the transition to where we simply replaced almost all of that and more as it became less-and-less cost effective to rebuild components. The same is true to the transition from points ignition through early electronic ignition, through OBD and the very leading edge of OBDII, and all of that. The bottom line is shop owners and managers did not want to pay for diagnosis times, and neither did customers. They were used to old Earl down at the gas station being able to listen to a car, or do a short test drive, tell them exactly what was wrong, throw a few parts at the problem, and have the owner of the vehicle drive away happy. They were also used to making enough money rebuilding an alternator, for instance, that it covered the diagnosis. In fact, that was a big selling point. Even though the book times usually had the diagnostic time broken out separately (though not always) from the repair time, shops almost always said "hey, the diagnostic time is x, and the R&R time is x; the rebuild time is x, but we'll only charge you the R&R and the rebuild time." Hard to make a good living when your boss is giving away part of your labor.
There is always set up time involved. Wood working, Metal lathe, Bridgeport milling machine. Be nice if you had room for 2 machines, one for each way. Save a lot of set up time . Probably not practical unless you're running production. 😊
As I have 45 years experience bending tube and pipe did you extra waste on the ends to allow for rear clamping as it looks like it's fairly short.so much easier with a mandrill tube bender thanx do everything by hand different methods of going about bending after bending for along time you look at a bend and just know how to do it bending is a art form I like your style
I find it amusing that you read to three decimal points but are using a nikko that looks to have line width of 3, 4mm ( 1/8, 5/32). Also your measurements that you've shown and marked out have the allowances for the die radius's built into itself to. Anyway very interesting.
I do that because of consistency. I draw to 3 decimals in CAD, machine to 3 decimals, lay out to 3 decimals. I just do it all the same so it so everything is same on paper. It makes it more efficient for me
@@cornfieldcustoms Its is just good to watch you male these. Out here we only have one brand of tooling sold here which everyone sells. And its Chinese crap stuff. Yes One shop sells some Baileigh tools here but with the exchange rate and shipping its so expensive. That's why I make all my own tools. Bead rollers, Plannishing hammers, power hammers English wheels (I did buy Proshaper's plans for that) and a few others. But love watching you make things, the way you do things and I learn a lot watching, thanks again.
Really cool to see what it takes for the master to make perfect tubes. I'm exhausted just sitting here watching you move all that heavy iron around. I can only imagine how many tubes I would bend the wrong way 😂😂
Mandrel bends have always been a mystery to me about haw they are formed . Really awesome video , so much more work than I thought involved . Thank you sir for walking us through the entire process . Great , Great video .
Whoever did the math on the layout program is the “heavy lifter” on the accuracy. Try rounding numbers to 1/100’s and you will find out why things won’t work accurately.
Impressive for sure however your comments about importance and preference of using 1/1000 of an inch then immediately proceed to layout with a tape measure, a speed square, a 1/8" sharpie, and an 1/8" shim by eye makes those comments seem absurd.
Breaking down that set up reminds me of my apprenticeship as it would be me who had to take a job out of the vice and do a rush job then set and clock the previous job back up lol Nice demo yet again.
Time is money. I wonder how much it would cost to get a second machine that can be set up and not changed? Then you could just move the rails as needed.
The machine is 100k, not worth the cost plus space it takes up when i dont swap the tooling all that often. When changing tooling on the same rail as in this video i charge for the tooling change
@@cornfieldcustoms you almost would have to build multiple sets of frame rails all at the same time ... so you dont have to change set up that often ... BUT then you need to be fully focused, phone turned off, doors locked .. and just focus on bending them. all the right way and dont mess up any dimendions ..... but then I sent know how many calls you have for frame rails ...
Good morning, John. I'm a relatively new subscriber to your channel. I forget where I came from, though I think it was Karl Fisher's channel. I've been following him almost since the beginning. Have you done a shop tour? I've seen a couple or three, including some guy in Canada - really his father, who has an 80-pound brain for the tools he uses and the way he laid his shop out. For instance, he was where I learned about running 20 and 30 amp outlets to each work station on separate circuits instead of all on one circuit. That may be old hat for some people, but to me, as a former pro mechanic, it blew my mind a little. I also follow the usual suspects - Fab Rats, Matt's Offroad, Robby Layton, Cutting Edge Engineering, and a bunch of others. Here's why I'm bringing all this up: I'm keenly interested in how people lay their shops out, how useful they've found said layout, and what they would change about it. Awesome channel. I really enjoyed this episode. I'd never seen anyone mandrel bend frame rails that way. So much cleaner and sanitary looking than a bunch of cuts and welds. Don't get me wrong; it takes talent that I don't have to do the cut and weld jobs, but this is so much neater.
I watched a previous video where you change the tooling! really is an invaluable tool but I love how you are so adept at using it! Cannot find a company like yours in the UK. Wish I could.
The set-up reminds me of setting up drop forge dies, not as many parts but it still could take a day to set-up. drop forge dies are shimmed from left to right and front to back. So once you have what looks like it should work, you run a couple of samples and readjust from there. the shimming comes down to 5 thousands. And some of these dies we worked weighed as much as 1000 pounds a set or more.
@cornfieldcustoms Awesome. What is the best way to get you the dimensions. Do you want the CAD file or do you want blueprints? Bends are both ways as we are converting the bronco over to independent suspension front and rear.
Ceartinly beats Fabricating cutting out flat sheet welding warping twisting grinding , heaps quicker even with the set up time you cant even can't even get close to the finish quality that you can acheive with your machine, I have spent two to three long days only doing one side the old way, Its a lot quicker with CNC plasma cutting profiles now days but the welding setting up and finishing still take much longer.
I'm curious about the mandrel, does it bend with the tube? How does it work is it a stack of brass or steel. I guess the question is how does it travel through the tube. I used a pipe mandrel once a long time ago and it was a ball like thing that was just pulled with a cable. From what I could see in the video your mandrel is a long piece that looks solid. How does that work? Thanks for the video it was great keep them coming.
I noticed this RU-vid video and I've been watching it play 16 years I set up and ran and Ethan and Lennon CNC pipe bender I'm a dumbass I didn't program it but I could set it up and run it but everyone who worked on the machine said we did the most tightest tolerances in the world these are coriolis meters they measure fluid the tolerances I've been to a plus or minus 3/10 of a degree and one of the jobs was one tenth of a degree everyone use are meters to check theirs and the company just threw that whole product line in the trash and I lost my job and the funny part is these meet is the government makes anyone who makes fluids use these meters and now they're not as accurate then now that we don't make them no more but it's cool seeing somebody still using a bender keep up the good work
Mad respect for you and the process you have built to make these frame rails with precision and care for your customers. The Engineer in me is dieing to automate and improve the efficiency of your change-overs tho... haha I know those machines are not cheap, but if you grow in buisness getting a second machine for the other way would be the first step to improve your efficiency. For now an add on system to hold and swap the dies out would be a great help, with the addition of some battery powered impact guns to run the screws down (final tightening by hand of course). Good video of the process. I sub'd for more of this! God Bless.
I was thinking the same thing about the 2nd machine, but that only applies for 2x4 tubing so if you went to another size tube, you would still need to change out the dies. A permanent gantry system for that bay rather than the rolling A frame gantry would be nice.
This is the first time I watched your channel, wow your such a great teacher & you make the effort to make it both informative & entertaining. Me well I have bent SS exhausts using a pipe bender all my change of direction I drew on the floor with chalk. The tube I welded a plate on 1 end filled it with sand which I compressed using a pneumatics chisel & a plug leaving about 1/8 th of a inch gap & plated the other end thus tricking the tube into things lt was a solid piece of bar. I bet you have the right piece of kit to do this, me well I did mine it my shed . Kiwi Rod
@@bobbyfabiano not only the machine cost but the space they take up. Also that number is just for the machine, not including the tooling or the mandrel bed
Holy crap, that's a lot of work ! I can see why side rails cost as much as they do. I have to ask - have you ever bent one the wron direction ? I can just see me screwing something up doing this. Great workmanship.
I have never bent a rail the wrong way but have come close, that's why I double check angle and orientation at each bend before preforming bend. I honestly think $1100a pair ( starting price) is cheap when you take into account the cost of the machine and tooling, the material cost, and labor involved.
Total pro ! Amazing machine, operator and a well made video. Instructions are one thing, years of experience is another. You my friend, would make an awesome instructor !
These were drawn by the client and CAD file sent over for me to bend. I don't always know what they are for, A lot of times i bend off client provided dimensions or sketches
@@cornfieldcustoms well seems to me a nice clean a stronger method of frame making....no pie cuts or splicing..... I like that....good piece for the shop....kinda pricey but if you do enough of this kind of work it will pay for itself.....
Holy cow! This is an amazing process. The part I’m a little confused about is how the mandrel works. I understand why it’s needed but how it works is unclear. Thanks, Mike, for another awesome video!
Thanks for sharing! Such a cool process to see. I've seen some tubing with the weld seam off center or all over the place really. Does the mandrel have a relief for the weld bead or is it special tubing?
This is some cosmic stuff. Kinda equivalent to Frank Zappa citing Steve Vai for playing "impossible guitar parts". I'm a fairly advanced metal fabricator and this blows my mind. Amazing. I just subscribed. WOW!
Thanks i appreciate the view and subscription. If your into metal fabrication make sure to check out some of my other videos, especially the metal shaping ones
That takes a lot of concentration to get it right first time, every time. I know from experience putting multiple bends in a length of copper pipe, how easy it is to mess up. Huge respect.
