Buy the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1's on Wharfedale USA's Website: bit.ly/WharfedaleDiamond12-1-Walnut Buy the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1's at Adorama: bit.ly/WharfedaleDiamond12-1 My Speaker Leaderboard: bit.ly/SpeakerLeaderboard My Subwoofer Leaderboard: bit.ly/subwooferleaderboard My Headphone Leaderboard: bit.ly/headphoneleaderboard Become a Patron: patreon.com/joentell My Recommended Products: kit.co/joentell Gear I Use: www.amazon.com/shop/joentell Disclaimer: The Affiliate links above earn me a commission if you purchase using those links. This is at no additional cost to you.
@@joentell Thank you very much for the information. I was wondering about the argon audio forte A5. But the wharfedale diamond 12.1 opinion convinced me to buy. I am thinking about the Smsl as300 amplifier an interesting choice - will it sound well?
Man that hair is looking so on point in this video. That haircut is the Diamond One. Budget audio provides such a great value. Speaker leaderboard is such an innovative approach to reviews. Joe you are the man.
We are waiting for the 12.2's review.12.2 speaker is the sweet spot for bigger rooms with more bass.We who have the 225's that has nice/sweet mids and highs we hope that the new series will have sweeter mids and highs than the series 11.
Hi. Do you think the 12.2s might be a bit "too much" and unsuitable for a small room? I have QA 3020i's but am unhappy with the bright/shouty upper midrange and am thinking hard about replacing them with the 12.1s or 12.2s. Thanks.
@@peterfitton4529 Well, in my room 4.5mX3.5m I have no problem with the wrfs 225. Of course I like the heavy bass.12.2s woofer 150mm, 225s woofer 165mm.I'm sorry to hear this about the 3030i because I thought they had a softer sound than the 12.2s Regarding the 12.2s there are reviews from reviewers and users that they have a harsh treble. If in your country you can find the wrfs 225 or 220 get it straight. Also try to listen to mission lx3 mkii and qx2 mkii and wrfs 12.2 of course. Unfortunately I believe that wharfedale changed the relaxed sound of the previous series to a sound with extended high frequencies. I have not heard them yet but I tell you what I have read. Before I choose the 225 in 2018 I listened to 8 speakers and some for the 2nd time to be sure.90% of todays speakers are bright sounding because of the magazines i think.Which amp are you playing with?Also i think 12.2s must have the best/natural mids in the category. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-7jdGIh1H_20.html hifitrends.com/2021/03/07/which-is-the-best-bookshelf-speaker-wharfedale-diamond-12-2-vs-q-acoustics-3030i-comparison-review/
@@andreassouth1523 Interesting. Every single review I've seen of the 12.1 and the 12.2 have said neither has a trace of harshness/brightness. But the guy in your RU-vid link says different. Although a few of the comments are bemused by his review. The other guy doing the 12.2 & 3030i comparison doesn't really say the 12.2 is harsh or bright, though he does use the word "edgey" at one point. I actually suspect the brightness/harshness issues I have with my 3020i speakers are probably due to my amp, which is a Marantz PM6007. Maybe I'll get a couple of 12.1s and send them back if I don't like them, lol.
@@peterfitton452912.2s in comparison to previous have Different sound signature. New designer and new materials for the drivers. I have heard PM 6006 on 2018 for 1 hour.Too much treble/sibilance and light not deep bass. So i bought yamaha A-S 701 which has normal treble and strong/deep bass,in comparison with Marantz.Tell us your impressions from 12.1s.
Just got a pair of these, just hooked them up a few hours ago, love them. Got them based off of your review and a few others I've seen. This coming paycheck will be some speaker stands. After that a subwoofer. Running these off of a 2001 vintage Harmon Kardon AVR110 and newer Audiolab CDT6000. Everything sounds beautiful!
Hey Joe. You have to follow these up with the 12.2's and the Evo4.2's. Bookshelf shootout! There are barely any reviews for the 12.2's though. And none that include a sound demo. An 11.1 vs 12.1 vs 12.2 vs Evo4.2 battle, maybe throw in the 12.3's in there too. Great review though.
@@joentell I'd love to know Joe's thoughts if he were to run into this scenario: Purchase a pair of the 11.2's at a nice discounted price, or rest assured that the 12.2's are significantly better and spend the extra $$ for those (i'm guessing alot of Wharfe fans are thinking the same thing! : D )
@@joentell I KNEW I should've been more specific on a price. Let's say, if the 11.2's can be had for only $349/pair. This might pose quite the dilemma...$150 cheaper than the 12.2's...but if the 12.2's are worth the extra cost? Hmmm. Sure makes one think! I have a feeling i'll personally be opting for the newer model!
Hidden gem in te line is the smallest 12.0. Quite close in performance to the 12.1 and does amazingly well with bass. Have them here on shelves in the corner of a bedroom.
Hey Joe, another great review! Awesome to see a smaller speaker perform so well. Any chance of also getting the new Monitor Audio Bronze in for review? The Bronze 100 are said to sound ‘big’, like the Denton 85th perhaps!
Really ought to give the company Dali a look, think you might like, got some older Wharfedale Diamond 220's and the Dali Spektor 2's out in the living room are quite nice. The overall presentation and presence they give is quite impressive, they are a bit on the brighter side but in a pleasing way to my ears. For reference I tend to like more neutral sound with large but accurate sound stage and imaging, like the HiFiMan Sundara headphones, which I own. These remind me a lot of that kind of voicing. Would be more than curious your opinions. I find them better than Q Acoustics myself, far more precise and responsive.
The Diamond 225 is like a more polished version of Elac Debut B6 (original). IMO its what the Debut 2.0 should have been. Fantastic speaker for the price right now.
Hello Joe, Would you mind a suggestion. I am a big fan of the speaker leader board, but even you mentioned in this video that it can get a little inconsistent. Would you consider scoring all of the speakers you review based on some key criteria, and then the scores can act as the ranking system rather than doing it on the fly. Honestly, it does seem sometimes like recency bias may influence your rankings. Just a thought. Thanks.
No recency bias here. A lot of the top speakers are old. Actually most are. But there definitely is bias because I'm choosing speakers based on my preferences and my room. I just hope to be transparent about my bias so people can calibrate themselves to me as an imperfect reviewer. A move towards more objective data makes sense though. The issue with a ranking system is that how much weight I might put on looks/build quality/bass/treble/midrange/imaging/sound stage/etc. will be different for me than for someone else. I always laugh when people rate stuff as if all the criteria have equal weight when they most likely do not. I appreciate the feedback though. I do have to redo this leaderboard.
Love the channel! Quick question, for $800.00 what is the best bang for buck bookshelf speakers for home theater? I have been looking at the fives but wondering if a receiver and a pair of passive bookshelfs would be better? Thanks.
Thank you Joe for this amazing and detailed reviews. What you recommend for a tight budget: Crystal 4.3, Diamond 230, 11.3 or 12.3? They all are for sale in my country (300$, 375$, 375$, 500$) I listen acoustic music, pop and hip hop, I love deep and shaking bass, 23 sqm living room, I can put them only max 10-20 cm from the wall, no sub, I'll buy them in 5.0 config, no DSP for now. I appreciate your time for responding to our questions, thank you man!
I haven't tried the 230, but I can say each one is worth their price. I always say to get the best you can afford since it will make the biggest difference in sound.
I see your test for the 2nd time after a year. It is a wonderful test. You should only leave the graphs of 11.2 and 12.1 at the same time for comparison. You said (9.25min.) that q 3030i you felt like they sound a little bit like bouncy?Meaning what?rough,uncomfortable,less smooth,stretchy,flexible,schrill?Iam between 12.2s and 3030i.Use for 50% ht 50%music.I like solid/deep bass and smooth/non fatiguing highs for long listening sessions (like my wrfs225s).
I'm glad someone called out Elac for the lack of magnetic grills on some of their recent speakers. And you're not wrong about the tweeter on the Debut Reference and uni-fi 2.0. But on the subject, glad to see that Wharfedale did good by the Diamonds again. Odd that they have begun under-rating the bass response though. This is not the first time someone has suggested this with their newer speakers.
There's just something that I don't necessarily find pleasing with the new Elacs. I thought perhaps it was the recording/source but I noticed it on a few systems. Maybe since bass has been reduced and the speaker is more "flat" were noticing it now? Not sure, even though I really wanted to like them. I have not had them in my home though as I fear they'd be going right back.
Hey there , Thanks for the detailed review. Really surprised to see them rank so high on the Overall list. But you havent mentioned anything about the setup used for the testing. Will these be good with Denon PMA-600NE ?
Hello, I wanted to buy the Q3030i based on most reviewsbut now i am wondering if it would not be better to buy an easier to drive speaker with 8ohms nominal impedance? Like this Warfedale 12.1? Is it normally true for all 6 ohm speakers that you can’t listen to them at low volume and are bound to increase the volume? Like in the case of Elac debut 2 speakers? Since you own the UB 5s you would know what i am trying to ask here?
Most new amps can handle 4 ohms no problem. The better indicator is sensitivity. Maybe watch our for speakers lower than 85db sensitivity. You might need a more powerful amp to get those to play loud.
I love the look of these and they're actually affordable. I just don't know what I need to pair these with to get the best out of them without spending a lot more on amps and dacs. Any advice?
Do you think the diamond 12.0s for 100$ less would be a better option if you don’t need the bass? Do you think the diamond 12.0s and 12.1s have the same mid range and treble? Bass for me is not a problem since I have svs subs
I like my Yamaha A-S501. I've reviewed it as well. Here are other products I like kit.co/joentell Are you planning to stay with a 2-channel setup or go multi-channel in the future?
@@joentell I think I'll stick to 2.1s. adding a subwoofer only if necessary. What kind of sound signature does yamaha have? Edit: I forgot to thank you!!!
You're welcome. I'm very excited for you. I prefer amps that don't impart their own sound signature. I question some reviewers who say they can hear huge differences. I've measured numerous amps with speakers and the differences are extremely minor compared to differences in the sound imparted by the speakers and the room.
That's a great review. I really like your leaderboard. Maybe you can give me hint for a 2.0 or maybe 2.1 home theater. I'm torn between the Wharfedale Diamond 12.2, Klipsch RP-600M, Elac Debut 2.0 B6.2 and Triangle Borea BR03. I can't order them all (+ I hate returning things), so I have to narrow it down to 2 speakers. Any help is welcome! Edit: I mean for movies/tv/series.
Ohhh tough one. Those are all pretty good. I think you would have to tell me more about your personal preference in sound, your expectations, and your room.
@@joentell Thank you for the reply! The room is almost a square (14ft x 12ft) and I'm sitting 11.5ft away. On one side is an open passage (6ft). My preference is a good question, these will be my first "real" speakers. I just know cheap soundbars. (Don't hit me) My biggest fear is that they are maybe too "neutral" and action movies won't make any fun. Also that problem without a center.. understanding voices in loud sequences is a concern from me. Thank you for your help, I'm trying to get into audio stuff since a week.. and it's pretty damn hard without some suggestions.
If you're realistic about your expectations for a pair of bookshelf speakers with no sub (for movies) I think the Wharfedale would be my first choice because they measure the best. The Klipsch are good for dialogue because the slightly boosted highs and the horn help direct some of the sounds in the vocal range. Helpful when listening at lower volume. Also, looks matter. See which one appeals to you more. Any of those are a huge upgrade from any sound bar. Excited for you!
@@joentell Thank you for the feedback, I really appreciate it! A sub will definitely come in the future. I just found out that the Klipsch are on sale for 340€ (I'm in europe) which makes them 40€ cheaper than BR03 and Wharfedale. I just ordered them. But since your review of the Wharfedale I'm really interested in them, also I really like that oak/white color. So like you suggested, I will probaby compare these two. Again, thank you! :)
I really enjoyed those Klipsch when I had them. You made a good choice. There's no perfect speaker. I think Wharfedale is less expensive in the UK than it is here in the US
Ну и как они тебе?Сравнивал с другими Diamonds?У меня тоже такие же,меня абсолютно всё устраивает.Я только переживаю за полиуретановый подвес вместо резины,не хочу чтоб он развалился со временем.Раньше в СССР выпускались колонки с мягким подвесом как пороллон или губка и они очень быстро рвались.Но надеюсь что всё же технологии не стоят на месте и этот материал продержится столько же сколько и резина.
They have some pretty nice mounts on Amazon. I have no problem recommending these! amzn.to/2MvuRH9 (Amazon affiliate link). It's inexpensive and I've never had an issue with mine. Best thing is you don't have to make any holes in your speaker. Get some Blutack while you're at it too.
Hard to beat a pair of good speakers and a sub. It's like comparing bookshelf speakers to a full-range speaker. It also depends on whether you're connecting it to an AVR or a stereo receiver. You need an AVR or MiniDSP to properly integrate the SVS sub because it adds a delay to the signal that the AVR can add to the other speakers to maintain the timing.
Nah, 12.1 for a sub and 12.2 for subless. 12.0 is just too small a driver to fully project that glorious diamond series signature sound. 12.0 will work nearfield.
I used them at my desk and loved them. These aren't powered so you need an amp. I've reviewed the SMSL SA300 and SMSL AD18 and those will work at the desk. Lower hiss than most inexpensive powered speakers since those are always at full volume. A separate amp allows you to turn it down at the source meaning lower hiss. When you turn it up, usually music is playing so you wouldn't hear the hiss anyway.
@@joentell thank you for the fast response! Yeah I'm ok with the additional amp, I search for the upgrade for my current kanto yu2 +sub. I will look at those SMSL as well. Thanks, great channel you have there.
@@joentell Were they too boomy on the desk? I'm not sure which one to pick, they are all almost identical price where I live, the 12.0, 12.1 and 12.2 that is. I could fit them all on my desk, but since I'm near a wall, maybe 12.0 would be the best choice? Or would it lack bass so I should go for 12.2?
I'm considering whether to get the 12.4s for $1000 or Lintons for $1500, they have the same frequency range of 40 hz to 20 khz 🤔. I know that's not everything, and I'm not holding my breath. I don't think anyone's gonna do a comparison.
Check out the Vanatoo T0. For $360, they have great sound for the price, they're small enough to fit on a TV stand and lay on their sides if necessary, and their unique shape presents different options for how you can display them. There is a connector for a sub. There is a built in crossover that is engaged when a sub is connected. And they can be repurposed if they will no longer be used as TV monitors.
@@joentell Here is the review from Joe for the Vanatoo T0's ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-osh-8CfM8ws.html Here is a review of those speakers from Joshua Valour: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-xFW--Gj1jGc.html
Do you think these would work mounted close to a wall, or can you recommend a front or bottom port speaker around this price point for that purpose? thanks!
@@joentell You hook your statements too much on the frequency charts mate, that's not how the speaker necessarily sounds to people when listened to. Technical data is one thing, the perception of sound is subjective and very different to different people. I've heard many a speaker in the past with a nearly perfect frequency response across the hearing frequency band, but they didn't do much for me. Some of us look for a certain sound coloration and wide sound-stage, not every speaker with great frequency response has them.
@@joentell I love the looks. My one issue probably would be that I do prefer a wider stereo soundstage than speakers that you have to constantly have to mess with to get a good soundstage but god I do love the looks mm beautiful.
However, I would definitely invest the additional costs of around $100 and buy either the Wharfedale Diamond 12.2 or even the Q Acoustics 3030i instead, because both sound better than the 12.1, the 3030i is the best recommendation of the three for my taste, because it sounds more balanced and is less critical when it comes to placement, but the 12.2 or the 303i are therefore really more worthwhile in the long run, and you shouldn't save at the wrong end even at the beginning of your hi-fi hobby either.
@@jolkraeremeark6949 Based only on the few really technically good sound demos here on YT, I would take the Wharfedale 12.2, which sounds more pleasant to my ears in the long run.
Anyone looking for an amazing value in bookshelf speakers should consider the small maker Fritz Heiler. No dealer cut, no advertising or marketing overhead, just the talent and engineering expertise of someone doing this for 40 years. Not affiliated, just a fan. See a review, here, of one of his top of the line models: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Hn3h3Tk6PzE.html
Joe, did you know that audible (music/tone memory factually is one of the weakest senses humans have? Unless you're doing a side by side comparison everything else is based on feeling and not in real time.
I'm referring back to actual measurements. Short-term, our memory isn't very good for audio. If you were to ask about the overall tonality of most of the speakers I've reviewed, I could give a general idea of their tonality because I use them for enough time to get an idea about their characteristics.
One where the distance between objects/sounds in the mix are clearly defined and are reproduced the way the mastering engineer intend them to. I'm not sure if you're being sincere with your question, but the answer is it comes down to angles. The angle of the sound relative to the lister should be the same as the angle that it came to to the mastering engineer. Of course, that's nearly impossible to determine given you don't know how far the speakers and the engineer was from them, BUT some speakers interact with a room in more controlled ways that keep reflected sounds from smearing the direct sound.
@@AbsoluteFidelity Damn, I didn't even knew he answered. Yes, that was a stupid and ignorant way to ask from me. I guess what I was trying to say is that most of the time we don't know what sound(stage) the mastering person had intended. Thanks for the heads up and thanks to Joe for the answer!
@@joentell It seems it has similar characteristics to the 225s I heard. I'm a Focal and Triangle guy but was intrigued by the 12 series. I'm sure they are a fine speaker to one who stays in the sweet zone. No offense.
Enjoy your speakers. If you have autoEQ functionality on your AVR, that can do a lot to minimize the differences. If you don't.....then you should've gotten the the 12.1's ;-)
@@joentell i really like my wharfedale diamond 11.1s i got, they sound really clear i have them with the fluance signature bookshelf speakers for a 2.1 stereo system but the fluance bookshelfs have really boosted mids they sound horrible compared to the diamond 11.1s planning on replacing them with these diamond 12.1s
Unless you are on a very poor source like youtube or sattelite tv or some low grade mp3, the 12s are nowhere near dull in the higher end. The only time I noticed that is was dull is as I mentioned above, and I would need to turn up the treble knob to compensate for that poor source. Or maybe you just like boosted highs like B&W or Klipsch.
you really set up a point system for each speaker you reviewed, what you doing to your leader board is very subjective dependable to the mood of the day you reviewed them, really not good enough.
Nope. Just saying that YOU should do it. I bet anything you won't. I know people like you. All you can do is criticize other people's work because you don't do anything.
@@joentell If I have I channel I'll doing what I suggest. Your FINAL score on your leaderboard is actually based on your subjective evaluation and NOT objective. You have already done so much work what is actually put your work based on a point system, the difficulty is put your brainpower on translating the point system into actually figure that will reflect your assessment if you can do that your assessment will be consistent and not subjective.
Lol. Of course it's subjective. Lol at the "IF I had a channel." Of course you would say that, but you won't do it. Do it! RU-vid is free to sign up for. I'm sure you have recording capabilities on your smartphone. Go ahead. Stop talking and start doing. I'm not even being nasty. This is advice that I would wish more people would take. Having real experience puts you in a much better position to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Here's the problem with you trying to give me advice when you have never done it yourself. I HAVE tried a weighted rating system when I first started. If you really cared, you could have asked if I had ever tried it, but you didn't because you wanted to prove something. FYI, it was extremely time consuming. Also, in order for that to be useful to others, they would have to know their weighting for different criteria in order to use the "objective" data. Rarely is the data 100% objective. We aren't robots in the way we make decision. A systematic approach would help guide us, but so would talking to an someone with lots of experience. Just to prove my point, tell me YOUR relative weighting foe different criteria when trying to decide on a speaker. What are the percentages? Did you arrive at those weightings in a systematic way?
I totally disagree with your claim of consistency of reviewed and it rewarded speakers between the brands you named, namely PSB ,...and Paradigm. Ellac debute Are just a few years in the making...But PSB Alphas and Paradigms Atoms are Legendary, and have won wow many speaker of the year awards for over two decades... Just recent the paradigm Monitor Atoms was given a All around better speaker sound than the Q acoustics alone...not to mention best budget speakers period , this was consistent with about four well known hi fii magazine editor reviews....
They are too bright! And you have to take into consideration that most budget amps, which are the obvious pairing for these bokkshelfs, have bright highs. So all in all a misjudgement and a bad designing call.
@@joentell Take a look here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-9ptHsoeUR8c.html They are too bright even with a 1000$ amp which i heard paired with Q acoustics 3020 and is not bright. So these must be way brighter than Q
@@cristim9779 the 12s are nowhere near bright. Not in the least. The 11s are. And in Darko's case, that is just an example of unlucky pairing. Any speaker, as dull as they sound, would sound bright with the wrong amp. The 3020s and 3030s have a brighter sound next to the 12s and not as linear too.
