My secret fantasy is to be on the jury for someone who ran over a human street blockade that wouldn't move. I don't care if he has an ancient Asian pinwheel symbol on his bald head, that guy is getting a hung jury.
I fucking hate it when people complain about jury duty. I served in a jury for a robbery case, and while ultimately I agreed he was guilty, I was the most rational, patient person on that jury, and the youngest by far. I was the only one willing to carefully examine the evidence one more time after everyone else seemed unreasonably certain, the only one giving the guy some slack for a couple of odd, seemingly incriminating circumstances. Ultimately, though, the prosecution made its case. We need more people willing to buck group-think in the jury box.
Exactly? How is right that a cop or prosecutor who lies to try to convict an innocent person. Gets no punishment, when they have knowingly sent an innocent to jail, and let the murderer walk the streets? Surely they deserve jail? Then they would take the responsibility seriously?
@@DustinKeller81 read it again. He means if you have the wrong person then the actual criminal is still out there. It's a double whamey of being wrong. Ruining an innocent person's life while simultaneously allowing a guilty person to not face justice. Both those things are terrible on their own but even worse when done at the same time.
Really, not a word about the economic disparities between exonerated and convicted. Additional factors, Race, Location, and Gender. They were tiptoeing around the “Justice” systems failures. I will give praise, in pointing out that, if you convict the innocent, a guilty perpetrator is set loose on Society.
These are complete clowns. They just proved one of the guys they were trying to get out was guilty of murder by redoing DNA test in the case of Robert Hayes
@@larsporsena7115 I see it this way. When a murderer goes free, an injustice happens. When an innocent person accused of murder is imprisoned, or worse executed, two injustices happen - an innocent person is imprisoned/executed AND a murderer goes free. It follows that an innocent person being found guilty and a murderer going free are not equal in how wrong they are.
@@larsporsena7115 I am pretty sure that that was not meant to be a question, but I will answer it: Question: "What percentage of murderers are you ok with releasing?" Answer: "Zero." Same answer to the original question.
@@edwardlewis1963 one has to realize that the game is played by both sides. That's the point. Remember Hillary clinton bragged about getting a pedophile acquitted. That's why it's good to slow down with the heart string arguments and face the fact that you dont have a problem with the death penalty you have a problem with the wrong person being executed. Then you can solve the real problem.
I cried like a baby when I found out Arkansas killed 7 inmates in 11 days because the medication they use to kill people was fixing to expire. I don’t know why people in America think if you say” I want a lawyer “ it makes them guilty.
Jason flom has been my mentor and I learned so much about the system from him. End result my husband Who spent 19yrs in prison for a crime he did NOT commit was finally found NOT GUILTY and exonerated in October of 2018. Listen and learn!
@@galnor It used to be a golden rule of life but those are a thing of the past just like "common" sense. People are too self centered and emotionally incapable of being even somewhat rational. Pretty soon even speaking words out of your mouth will offend people. Social media and greed have been methodically destroying this world. The more disconnected we become through technology the less we will care about what happens to each other. People will become just like files on a computer. Delete.
The problem lies in free will. You will never fix the fact that rational people can be extremely irrational. Or unpredictable if you will. You never truly know someone's intentions until you know. And by that time? Its usually too late. Joe talks about winners and losers and how life is pretty much a game. I agree with him to an extent
I think the biggest thing that people on the jury forget, is that to convict anyone it has to be beyond a reasonable doubt. If there is any doubt in the defendants guilt than he should be free.
@ShinRaPresident but you're saying higher education means higher intelligence. While there is a correlation I've met blue collar workers who have IQs north of 140.
How do we know this? Is every client they take on innocent? How do we know they haven't been caught up in the other side and knew their client was guilty but had to twist it just so they get the win themselves?
@@eatmyass4574 But they're trying to free Julius Jones who's obviously guilty as shit. They are knowingly trying to deceive people with bogus claims about his case. Everyone has an agenda, and these guys are no different.
These are complete clowns. They just proved one of the guys they were trying to get out was guilty of murder by redoing DNA test in the case of Robert Hayes
@@swasho2939 They aren't. They're a bunch of grifters. Look up some of the scumbags they have freed or tried to free. These were the same people who helped get Sheldon Johnson freed on early release.
I hit a deer with my car several years ago. I took pictures for insurance reasons, it wasn't bad enough to get fixed. About a year afterwards, I woke up on a Saturday morning, home alone (21 at the time still with parents) to a state trooper at my front door. He said he had evidence of me in a hit and run and the mark on my car proved it. I was scared shitless, never been accused of anything before and I didn't know what to say. He almost got me thinking I may have done something but I was able to pull out my phone and show the date of that picture. He fiddled around with some stuff in his patrol car and then left. Never heard anything else about it. They didn't even contact me after that whole ordeal
This, I love Rogan but does he not realize that the job of a lawyer is LITERALLY to win in the case? Prosecutors are not supposed to be avatars of justice, just like how Defense lawyers are literally paid (unless its pro-bono which is almost never) to win the case. It is entirely up to the Judge and the Jury to be non-partisan, NOT the lawyers. Imagine if the dude you paid potentially thousands of dollars got up and said to the opposing lawyer "you know what, you are right" who the fuck would ever hire that lawyer afterwards? Who would go to that firm afterwards?
There goal is to make money the bread winner will pay both lawyers. The two law firms make the most money prolonging arbitration and getting the non bread winner full custody at first because the bread winner will continue to pay his lawyer to fight his wife's lawyer will continue to win full custody or majority custody
I really believed when I was younger that cops would never lie to trick someone. I literally believed people are usually motivated to do the right thing. ahaha my naiveness waa scary
Shit most of beleived the world was a beautiful place and evil was rare, The world is beautiful but we reolize there is a lot of shitty evil fuckers running around in it.
Listening to this podcast is making me feel extremely emotional. I was a victim of the same tactics not too long ago, except maybe not on such a grand scale. I was a shift supervisor at this pharmacy. One day, after taking a few days off, i'm taken to the stock room where a man i've never seen before begins to throw accusations against me that i am completely innocent of. He accuses me of stealing money. He uses the angle that my mom had recently passed away and kept repeating, "you just wanted to help your Dad right? Your family?" until i broke down. I falsely confessed and left defeated. Listening to this just made me feel something different.
@@andreffrosa The accusations that were thrown at me were too substantial to fight back. I was pinned and forced to as if I had actually stolen the money when in fact, the money was stolen by another person that was working there at the same time I was. The tactic I think they're talking about is largely controversial (Reid Technique), as it is known to draw out false confessions, especially from young people (18 at the time) The tactic works because when the tension and stress becomes too much, humans, especially young ones, kick into a self-preservation mode and want to be rid of the situation entirely, so they tend to make false statements and confessions in order to get out of an incredibly stressful situation. I just wish I could go back and fight it, as I was forced to pay $1,000 out of pocket in restitution.
This subject HAS to be taken serious... this has to be LAW here man. You guys are gods gift !! People please exercise this practice in daily life, no malice 🙏
Puckered 🤦🏻♂️ I said god, not Christianity. This, exactly what we have to dodge here people! God, what you believe in, could be a rock, could be a bag of rice, could be the clouds, just believe in something and stay positive.
It's tough guess. I believe that some people deserve to die, but these guys make a good point about the system not being up to the task. Maybe only in the case of mass murders? Like, provable serial killers and mass shooters? Idk but this is no longer a hill I'm willing to die on.
The way I figure, there's no reason to invest tax dollars into a death penalty which could go wrong, especially considering that time in prison for people who are convicted of some of the more heinous crimes is practically a free death penalty in and of itself. Combimed with the fact that many places have a policy of shooting through their staff to stop escaping prisoners, why waste tax dollars on a death penalty, which, depending on the case, may end up indefinitely suspended (while still paying for death row). Let's be honest, for the biggest assholes with the clearest and harshest convictions, just being in prison is practically a free death penalty given that the guards and other prisoners won't take kindly to them. Barring that, there's the fact that they will almost certainly be taken out if and when they try to pull something (either attacking other prisoners/staff or escaping). Oddly enough considering its reputation, California does have the death penalty, but because of the bevy of odd circumstances attached to it, basically no one actually gets executed and extra money is spent on maintaining death row for essentially no purpose. Make of this what you will.
I watched all the documentaries on Netflix and I was outraged how innocent people were serving years and decades of prison time. So these guests see the issues, joe sees the issues, I see the issues, why are these ignorant jurors convicting innocent people? I watched some of these trials and I just shake my head how 12 people convict. I say it’s ignorance.
If its ignorance then its an ignorance that ignores societal differences between people. Which makes me believe it cant be ignorance. I think its an issue that can only be solved by either radically reforming the death penalty conviction (what id like to see, cause i firmly believe that there are some crimes wherein its impossible for someone to be rehabilitated/punished for it), or just abolish the death penalty. The issue also resides in that if you ask what should be the punishment for the guy who rapes 11 babies and killed the moms, its undoubtedly going to be death or maiming. The issue isnt the death penalty itself, its the crimes that “get” it as a punishment.
Even if you hold out on the jury, judges are known to keep sending you back and sadly people on the jury end up saying “screw it” and agree to convict just to go home. Even though it’s someone life’s on the line.
These are complete clowns. They just proved one of the guys they were trying to get out was guilty of murder by redoing DNA test in the case of Robert Hayes
its not so much the jury. but the tricks the prosecution use. everything from cherry picking the jurors for a specific case, to tainting the jury with false evidence. They can absolutely create a fantasy, and back it up with altered evidence, and a corrupt judge will allow it. A corrupt judge will also IGNORE a penned letter from a juror that something is wrong....and rule of law not followed and NOBODY CARES, and even defense attorneys are complacent. This is a FACT. IT HAPPENS.
I was just about to say, and then he said it: If you're picked up for something you didn't do, all you have to say is: "I want a lawyer." That's all you should say. Anything else they can use against you. Don't try to play the game back. They're the best at what they do. Investigators are MASSIVE MANIPULATORS. It's their job. Even if you're sitting there for 13 hours with nothing to eat or drink, all you have to repeat is "I want a lawyer." Your life is at stake.
This is absolutely true. I was interrogated for 6 hours nonstop, decided not to ask for a lawyer because I did nothing wrong. Left the station like normal, continued my normal day until the police came to pick me up and process me saying I confessed to the crime they were accusing me of. They charged with me with a second degree felony. I took a plea for a 4th degree felony and 2 years probation no jail time. Didn’t go to trial because I wasn’t going to trust a public defender when 5-10 years of my life was on the line. Got myself into 30k in debt for 2 lawyers and would have costed me another 20k if we went to trial. Lost my job in the process, couldn’t get another job because of the charges I was facing, tapped out financially. All this because they lie to you, manipulate you in the worst way and mentally break you down. I did nothing wrong and I almost lost everything because of it.
The best part is ppl either doubting someone could actually be an unfortunate victim of circumstance or take your professed innocence, as another mark against you. That being an undeserved perception of your inability to take honest accountability for crimes they, nor a jury of their peers could prove your being guilt in beyond a shadow of a doubt. It all sounds respectable in theory but there is a quick departure from the fundamental cornerstones taught once in practice. The law works three ways I know of. I know how its sposed to work. I know how it works for other people. And I know how it works for me🤔
@@a.pjones240 yes, so my soon to be ex-wife filed a temporary restraining order against me when I was 3 months away doing military training. When I came back home to my Apt I was served the papers. I wasn't allowed to get any personal belongings, get my car, see my dogs, and didn't have a place to sleep. All I had was my suitcase. Then had court 2 days later. She had no evidence. Judge gave her 30 days to come up with some evidence. I have court again, she still doesn't have any evidence. Now she's submitted false witness statements from her bestfriends saying I am agressive and abusive. In the event that the judge finds those statements to be true, which they aren't, I'll lose my top secret clearance and probably get kicked out the military.
@@seanhurley9216 Well in my experience currently, I have been battling a pain in my stomach for 3 years and it has always been my fault. They are worst then the criminal justice system at this point holding many peoples cures as ransom for not having the right money and/or medical insurance.
A narcotic cop was so hell bent on arresting me for my medication he refused to check the script i had in the center console or allow me to call the doctor or pharmacy. When booking me he was receiving high fives as if he just busted el chapo. I’m someone with zero arrests no crimes at all just a few parking tickets. He refused to listem. They booked and released me. I went to court no lawyer, no public defendant with my paper work and the case was dismissed in 3 minutes. The judge went off on the dumb pig. Amazing feeling. Also got the case expunged on my own. Cost me $0.00 and a few hours to do all of this. Point is, people want to climb up in their career and if it means screwing you over and ruining your life, then that’s exactly what they’ll do.
I was falsley accused of a really violent rape cause I dumped an ex, the detective involved lied endleessly even in way we could prove he also tried to with hold my text messages on my phone they took when I was arrested cause it proved my ex was lying, I got dragged through court for three years because of that cop and he knew it was all lies not a doubt in my mind
@@DeosPraetorian no bullshit. And there's so much more shit that happened with that situation that it's unreal, we could probably make a movie about it
@@viracocha I'ma break this down for you ONLY because it's his birthday today. He went up the road and came home on parole. Then he was arrested for something he didn't do, he beat THOSE charges, but is serving 10 because he violated his parole by being arrested.
When you get arrested they constantly ask you questions to get you tripped up. Only answer questions if you know all the facts and the people around you will have the same answers.
Yeah Right, in the sense of wrongful convictions out lawmakers and all those on board with the legal system should try to mitigate that, probably grant clemency to those convicted without sufficient evidence, but for genuine convictions with cold hard evidence? Long time behind bars or the rest of their lives is not enough. Heed my words: Those who are convicted of the most barbaric and despicable crimes imaginable should be subject to die in the most inhumane way possible. I’m ashamed that many states in our country are opting to end Capital Punishment, sure, it’s a predicament for those wrongfully convicted, but for those who are genuinely beeil? They frickin deserve it.
This is us failing as a society... I remember a case about a 12 year old named Garrett Phillips... Police charged the moms ex (a black guy) with the crime with little to no evidence... He beat the case but if they actually did a real investigation maybe the kids killer would have been brought to justice
These gentlemen are doing truly honourable work, why are more people not listening to what they are saying. You never know you might need them one day..
These are complete clowns. They just proved one of the guys they were trying to get out was guilty of murder by redoing DNA test in the case of Robert Hayes
I was mind blown to hear almost 30 percent of convicts put to death were innocent, instantly changed my mind because I'm a firm believer in it's better a 100 guilty go free than 1 innocent suffer.
Pretty sure it's a bogus stat. These are complete clowns. They just proved one of the guys they were trying to get out was guilty of murder by redoing DNA test in the case of Robert Hayes
Prosecutors are judge by their conviction rate. That is the #1 number used to evaluate their performance. This leads to a lot of wrongful convictions and often prosecutor will take a guilty plea from a person they know is innocent in return for a lighter sentence. If a prosecutor knowingly convicts and innocent person they should be charged.I always tell people the police are looking for evidence to convict, they will disregard everything else so NEVER talk with them without a lawyer.
Joe, out of the hundreds of your series, this is the ONE. Josh and Jason are amazing at explaining and exposing the real situation. Joe, please use your fame and develop this into something substantial.
You know who I think a lot of people in the psychology field would love for you to put on the podcast, Dr. Philip Zimbardo. You always talk about the cruel and evil things that people do to each other and wonder why. Zimbardo is considered by many to be the foremost expert on evil behavior, and of also heroic behavior as well. He could give many explanations to these questions. Also, another psychologist who many would love too would be Susan Clancy. She's done a ton of work and research on memory that I'm sure would gain your interest real quick. Honestly, I got a whole list of psychology professionals that I would love to see on the podcast. Such as, Thomas Joiner, who considered the expert on why people die by suicide. But that's an entire subject altogether.
I recently watched "Trial 4" on netflix which is based on the story of Sean Ellis, an innocent man who spent 22 years in jail because he was accused of killing a dirty Boston PD detective. This documentary shows how corrupt the police departments, DA's office and judicial system is in the city of Boston. They sent this man to trial 3 separate times, first two ended in a hung jury and he was convicted the third time. He ended up leaving prison because the investigating officers in his case were indicted for corruption charges and THEY WERE SENT TO PRISON!!!!! A judge order his release after his lawyers filed a motion. After all that the city of Boston still wanted to send him to trial for a 4th time before they ultimately dropped all charges. If you want to know how rotten America's judicial system is, I couldn't recommend it enough. This doc is a MUST WATCH!!!!
Richard Raugust, spent 18 yrs wrongfully accused of killing my step dad Joseph Tash, until he proved his innocence with the help of the Montana Innocence Project. MUCH RESPECT for people who devote and volunteer their time for the INNOCENCE PROJECT!!!
KCPD Sgt. Caleb M. Lenz is just that kind of person, he not only conspired to violate my rights but stalked me during the time pending my trial. Now that I have lost my 2nd Amendment I haven't had a single contact with any KCPD Officer in over 2 years
I have a Serious story for your Podcast about Columbus, Ohio ( from just my life experience). I got "Judicial Release" 3 times from 2003-2012. This Podcast here is so detrimental to so many people's lives. Thank you for making people aware of what HAS been going on for too long now. Make a new Bureau for fixing these serious crimes and then Charge the Prosecutors and Detectives, and Public Defenders who ALSO "play ball" with them. People NEED your help :)
So true about people who will do anything to win. I find people with that midset so strange. And these people are doing it with an actual life or death scenario.
Thank you Joe for having these guys on and to shed a light on the wrongful conviction epidemic. I lived it first hand. I was wrongfully convicted and sentenced to Life in prison. It took me 21yrs of fighting to get my freedom and to get exonerated. And I personally know dozens of other guys I was locked up with who are now also exonerated. Its fucked up.
Judges and prosecutors should be held accountable for lying and breaking the law. If people where held accountable for lying in court matter who they where thered be alot less wrongful convictions
Thank you for this video! My brother was wrongfully convicted in Ohio. Just this last week, I got the Sheriff and prosecutor to finally turn on each other. Prosecutor Matthew Fox withheld DNA evidence from Bryant Rhoades' legal counsel for 6 years. This week might be the week for his release!!!
How do prosecutors get away with withholding evidence?! How? I really need to know because my friend is in same situation. Evidence that could exonerate was withheld! in what world is that even allowed?
When that man said even with those 2 cases being reversed "Florida still isn't batting 700" it made my stomach turn as someone who wouldn't be apposed to the DP for extreme cases. It makes me wonder what the state of Texas's "batting avg" is for innocent convictions..
Thanks for having this on your show. I'm going threw a wrongful conviction rn. Going to trial with public defender. I'm actually not guilty like foreal. Iv been guilty of things in the past for weed but honestly not guilty on this charge. If anyone can help me I would do anything. It would save my life. I'd forever be in debt.
So I just had a court case closed last week in the most surreal, almost twilight zone experience. I was the only defendant present in the covid court, accompanied with 4 other private attorneys, bailiff, judge, and a zoom screen. The DA showed up an hour late, completely removed from reality thru a microphone and a black screen. My attorney had no ability to work with the prosecution in this manner. This feels like a totalitarian kangaroo cout. We need more than ever people need to stand behind this movement.
@@gsabella4 like all the innocent people that have been convicted had the option to steer clear? smh. Im astounded at the basic ignorance of your comment.
One of the issues is states are trying to find good lawyers to be prosecutors rather than finding good people to be prosecutors. Law school is a giant contest of who's got the best grades and best connections, not who's a morally good person that can become a good lawyer. Most individuals join law school to be "rich" and be successful, unfortunately some of those people become prosecutors; there is a very small subset of individuals who actually want to help people as an attorney.
@Eriko. Oy ....and/or maybe he's read a comment of mine! But either way he's got sime insight into it, it makes for a better podcast. And I am glad somebody else here also noticed it, thank you Eriko. Yes, he's a good guy, not a bad fella.
Joe has been a good listener for a while. It just depends on the guest imo. Look at some of his earlier podcasts with Neil Degrasse Tyson or Jordan Peterson. With that said, If the guest is an effective speaker or if the subject matter is compelling, shutting your gob and listening becomes a hell of a lot easier.
DOCUMAX I've noticed that he's most engaged & willing to listen when it's a topic he's unfamiliar with. When it's a topic he's talked about a thousand times, he can get very repetitive & even speak more than the guest. I feel like the subject matter is a big factor in what kind of interview he gives.
I am calling for the release of Marquis Thomas, my brother. He is in Montgomery County prison and has just been convicted and sentenced to life for a crime he did not commit. His ex girlfriend lied on him and we even have paperwork saying it was his ex girlfriends father who abused the kids. We have transcripts saying the grandfather did this. Marquis and our lawyer have the paperwork but the DA said they don’t care. Please help my family. He’s innocent and is being racially profiled in Montgomery county. He has no record, no history and no motive. This could be the biggest case in the United States if it gets out. We also have autopsy reports and records indicating this was not a homicide. During trial the autopsy person said the child’s death was due to cpr. We also have assumption and hearsay in this case. Which is wrong. Hearsay was thrown out in Pennsylvania in July 2020. His ex coached her son to lie on my brother. Also the jury was deadlocked on first degree murder. We overheard the judge tell someone that they need first degree. He also told the jury to go for a walk after a few jurors passed out and could not decide. He then told them to deliberate on third degree murder since they are hung on first but 30 minutes later they came back with first degree. They set my brother up. He is innocent sitting in prison for a crime he did not do. Please help us Thank you
@@diegotobaski9801 Apologetics is a form of mental gymnastics that very dedicated theists perform. It's designed to simply win a discussion about god and leave no room for any counter points.
Prosecutors for some reason will never admit they're wrong even though they know they are. It is so unbelievable it makes me sick, I am so glad there are people like you guys out there that do what you do.I know somebody who is a friend of mine that almost got convicted of murder of which he was innocent and they found the actual murderers years later so I know you're absolutely right this happens all the time and prosecutors care more about their conviction rate than human life.
When watching Brooklyn 99 Perolta said he was allowed lie and I was thinking that's good, mess with the criminals head...........after listening to this I don't think I'll see that scene in the same way next time 😬🤦♂️
I'd be curious to hear their thoughts though where people who seem to be clearly guilty are getting away without convictions. I'm thinking the Outcry documentary mainly and the Jinx documentary.
