Inside The Controversy Over Building One Of The World’s Largest Telescopes | Beyond the Mauna

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The summit of Mauna Kea is perfect for astronomy but it's also regarded as one of the most sacred lands for Native Hawaiians. We get a look inside the two sides that have been debating about the construction of one of the largest ground telescopes in the world.
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Thumbnail Credit: Courtesy TMT International Observatory
On the island of Hawaii sits a dormant volcano named Mauna Kea. It’s the highest point in Hawaii, and if you measure from the sea floor, it’s the tallest mountain in the world. And this height, paired with a few other important elements, has made it home to numerous observatories. But, this mountain isn’t just a perfect place to peer deep into the vastness of our universe. It’s also a very sacred place for the local native Hawaiian people, who have been protesting the construction of a newly planned telescope since the site was selected for construction in 2009.
This film, from co-directors Carter Lau and Duncan Heger as well as their team from Chapman University, looks to shed light on an important debate that may have been tragically overlooked so many times in the past; science vs culture. This is Beyond the Mauna.
#documentary #seekerindie #seeker #nature #conservation
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21 мар 2021

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Комментарии : 847

@MrHichammohsen1 3 года назад

Seeker is finally understanding that some of us has longer attention span than gold fish.

@andrewpaulhart 3 года назад

I fully agree. .... sorry what was I agreeing to?

@recklessrecluse9123 3 года назад

*have

@andrewpaulhart 3 года назад

@@recklessrecluse9123 thank you, now I can figure out what that sentence means ... remind me what sentence again

@Neptoid 3 года назад

Now it is the attention span of a gold fish? Do gold fish just look stupid or something? What do you have against gold fish mate?

@RyeOnHam 3 года назад

Why are you insulting goldfish with bad grammar? Shame on you, specist. You try living underwater, Bigot.

@OrbitalLizardStudios 3 года назад

is this the world record for longest seeker vid?

@SyntheticFuture 3 года назад

I legit clicked it assuming it would be max 5 minutes 😂 This has to be a record for sure!

@dodaexploda 3 года назад

I'm still watching it and feels like it's 23 minutes too long. Despite being 33 minutes long there isn't much information here.

@sarthakbhole3724 3 года назад

I guess a seeker record, it's not like anyone in the world can make a seeker video.

@johnmichaelb1 3 года назад

It's a full on documentary, i kinda like it

@shitbag. 3 года назад

I've been loving all of these.

@vitoru1000 3 года назад

This guys have a great future in filmmaking!

@RickyKingProductions 3 года назад

Thank you!

@recklessrecluse9123 3 года назад

@@RickyKingProductions Lol

@dawunderdog 3 года назад

Give the world the knowledge of the stars and give Hawaiians and all Polynesians a place to worship and learn their ways amongst the stars. Us Hawaiians have a chance to be the leaders and great teachers of the stars. We circumnavigated with the stars and tide yet us as a people we know nothing about this art and knowledge.

@user-do5zk6jh1k 3 года назад

Polynesians are the best navigators and explorers humanity has ever known. The stars are humanity's next big ocean to conquer.

@dawunderdog 3 года назад

@@user-do5zk6jh1k 💯 percent agree. Just wish more of us Hawaiians see the opportunity and protest or lobby to be apart and possibly leaders in this new ocean and have a platform to educate our people and the world how it was done. Sometimes the knowledge of a people are worth more to trade than goods.

@MrBLAA 3 года назад

If King Kamehameha were alive today, I believe he _would_ support the telescopes on Mauna Kea and Haleakala. After all, Hawaiians at one time were the best “naked-eye” astronomers in the world. Remember, King Kamehameha conquered these islands by embracing “modern” technology (aka: muskets and cannon)

@dawunderdog 3 года назад

@@MrBLAA 💯 agreed. He seen and embraced all of it. He wouldn't have been able to conquer(unify) all the islands. The best things a nations can do for the world is equally trade knowledge and culture with another. Teach of the past to thrive in future.

@confirmjannati 3 года назад

Hello dawunderdog are you from Hawaii?

@DeathValleyDazed 3 года назад

Complicated issues require wisdom. Thanks for adding context to human events!

@reg4891 3 года назад

@juanka galindo racist

@lolt642 3 года назад

@paulgarcher do you think white people are the only ones doing science

@jayc3614 3 месяца назад

They captured the land. They are still forcing the style of governance. They are so affected cost of living is causing many to leave. They are tired because it is the straw that breaks the camels back. It isn't complicated but GREED and DISRESPECT complicate those with economic ambition. They even are sending homeless people from other states to Hawaii. They can't impact the with local elections much of the ruling of the country that sets there systems. They barely have power to resist. Prime ministers in commonwealth countries actually have more privilege than these people. They are tired.

@AlexRodallec 3 года назад

"Astronomy Industry"?

@zadraking 3 года назад

That was my reaction too.

@LJ_S1K 3 года назад

What's the question?

@muratt4811 3 года назад

@@LJ_S1K as if it’s a commercial thing

@LJ_S1K 3 года назад

@@muratt4811 I understood it as all the private businesses that profit from designing and manufacturing the equipment/tools to observe space.

@Voidroamer 3 года назад

@@muratt4811 sadly, it is a commercial thing. The world runs on money, whether its from the tax payer or the private sector.

@rtk1st 3 года назад

The thing that interests me the most is that there is clearly a lot of emotional trauma and pain being felt by the protestors. They feel ignored and trampled on, but there is not many actual issues being raised. Its, this is us protecting the mountain, our culture, our way of life. But not much about how this structure will damage those things. You're protecting the mountain in what way? how does this structure destroy your culture? how does it impact your way of life? by having answers to these types of questions compromises and simply understandings can be created instead of battle lines. How can the telescope people help in the protecting of their way of life? Is it even about the telescope in first place? or do they need to have programs and authority given to the native people? There is so much unexplored and unasked to reveal the root cause of these conflicts.

@richardjordan9092 3 года назад

Yeah, pretty dumb how 50 people think their beliefs are more important than advancements in science lol.

@morkovija 3 года назад

Amen comrade!

@n1kk3l9 2 года назад

@@richardjordan9092 u will never understand and thats ok but please dont make it seem like a joke

@goyonman9655 2 года назад

@@richardjordan9092 Their sacred land is more important than you so called "advancements in science"

@Salensuss 3 года назад

Seeker 90% of this video have letterboxes. If you adapt your intro/outro to use same aspect ratio as the actual content, we won't have to watch a windowboxed video now or in the future on anything wider than 16:9.

@Changitojuanito 3 года назад

Amazing documentary! Beautiful cinematography, a well written story, very impactful. As far as my opinion, I am not a native Hawaiian-I wouldn’t understand how much this means to them.

@jayc3614 3 месяца назад

Did you watch the part about the Americans taking the country and businessmen forcing them to be under them. The us had a coniption when Russia annexed Crimea. Well the us did the same in Hawaii only difference is they had no prior history governing them but clearly wanted business. They were disrespectful to think they could lead people already observed as sovereign

@maylianong8182 3 года назад

I don’t think it has to be science versus culture. I am in agreement with mailani. (Pls forgive me if I spell her name wrong) . I agree that this is a symptom of a bigger issue. I feel like there is a disconnect between the science and the culture. Maybe to Hawaiian they do not feel as they have ownership over the telescope and the science. I agree that culture has to preserve. But culture change and evolve overtime. So I do hope to see people like milaini not only in stem but in other under representative fields.

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

When someone impedes scientific progress, it is a problem. You can try to be diplomatic but they seem to be against this telescope not because of any rational reason, but because of some superstitious beliefs about their Gods and Mana. Considering what science and astronomy has taught us about the universe, (a billion times more than any cultural tradition) you would think people would want more of science, not less. They could think of this telescope as a way to understand the universe and their Gods better. A way to reach out to them.

@maylianong8182 3 года назад

@@PresidentialWinner First of all it's not that they are impeding because of superstitious belief, they are impeding because of cultural heritage and identity. To them Mauna is an important historical, religious , cultural structure. Mauna is basically the equivalent to mecca to the native hawaiians. It is ignorant to believe that cultural heritage is not as important as science and astronomy. heck circumnavigating the stars is part of hawaiian culture. I do believe building the telescope is important. i do not believe that by building the telescope that it is desecrating the religious structure. i strongly believe that the hawaiian culture should preserve and have the same importance as science. also I do not think that science is being impeded, science will always find a way.

@megamanx466 3 года назад

@@PresidentialWinner Science is meant to enrich humanity, not supersede it. TMT wants the submit of the observatory likely because it's beyond the clouds. Astronomy is no longer limited to Galileian, Earth-based methods and can put observatories in orbit around the Earth or even perhaps the Moon and *technically* could in orbit around Mars'. To think that science is as limited as a cultural religion/sacredness is antiquated thinking.

@megamanx466 3 года назад

@@PresidentialWinner P.s. could you please tell me when in the video they mention the term " *Mana* "? I don't recall hearing it and it makes me think you didn't watch the video. 😅

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

@@megamanx466 I'm not going to comb through 30 minutes of the video again to check the timestamp. It was mentioned twice. Ps. You are antiquated.

@papac6831 3 года назад

being a astronomer for over 50 years this troubles me, im all for science but when we tread on people to do our science it is so counter productive disrespectful in fact id call it some what evil. respect what the people want we have plenty of big telescopes all over the world we dont have to have another but if we do lets build it where its wanted. i send love and respect to all Native Hawaiians.

@lolt642 3 года назад

well said, that's very respectful of you. so many people are ignoring 1. the massive amount of oppression the natives faced and still face, and 2. the telescope can go somewhere else.

@graysonsmith7031 3 года назад

I was worried this would be something like that one town in Texas that didn't want a solar panel power plant because they argued it would stuck up all the light from the trees.

@hudsoncampbell5064 3 года назад

Thank you, this comment returned me to reality 🤣🤣

@graysonsmith7031 3 года назад

@@hudsoncampbell5064 I like Texas, but boy there are a lot of stupid people here (or I guess I should say the stupid people here are a lot more vocal.)

@hudsoncampbell5064 3 года назад

@@graysonsmith7031 don't worry, I'm in Australia and we have plenty of... uneducated people here too, it's not just Texas 😆

@alexharkness586 3 года назад

My stepfather once told me: "Idiots exist everywhere."

@SahilP2648 3 года назад

@@hudsoncampbell5064 how much percent of people do you think these are? I am quite surprised people like these even exist in this day and age. Do they think internet and mobile phones are black magic?

@WestsidePatriot 3 года назад

Honestly, Hawaii should be protect like statewide native land.

@gamermapper 3 года назад

Hawaii is illegally occupied

@B00s3 3 года назад

Loving these documentary videos you are sharing with us Seeker. Great stuff! During the video I realized that I barely know a thing of Hawaiian culture and history before WWII. In history classes I've taken here in the Southern U.S., they just gloss over Hawaii (unless speaking of WWII) and Vietnam War, which is like only mentioned that it was something that happened. And I'm sure there is so much more.

@Deady4u 3 года назад

I really agree when the mom says "There's a whole galaxy out there" "we shouldn't limit ourselves". Having culture and traditions is okay but humans always change and culture always changes as well. People need to understand that.

@onikarutherford7021 2 года назад

This could have been built anywhere else, and yet we placed it on one of the most sacred sites of Hawaii. Taken within the context of the US's overthrow of the Hawaiian monarchy, this is not just for science, this is to further colonialism against Indigenous people.

@urbnctrl Год назад

The extreme ignorance in your statement is astonishing - what knowledge do you have of the people of Hawaií? the history of the country becoming an American territory? Looking for Life outside of earth to the detriment of ANCIENT LIFE ON EARTH is a disgrace for any self respecting scientist.

@felipe_borges_ 3 года назад

I know that the point of this documentary is the "clash" between science and culture, but at some point I wondered if the James Webb Sapce Telescope will do something like the TMT is supossed to or if it would be possible to make a "Space TMT" and avoid all of this.

@SyntheticFuture 3 года назад

As is: not. It's impossible to launch a mirror of that size into orbit. Aside from the forces it would have to withstand it's simply too big. And it's impossible to maintain even if you could get it up there. If they could they would as the atmosphere is very disruptive for telescopes, but for now this is the best solution.

@Erzahler 3 года назад

Felipe: the James Webb Telescope MAY do that, IF it ever launches! The project is more than three years behind schedule and more than a billion dollars over budget. Synthetic_Future: ArianeSpace says it can successfully launch the telescope into what I think is called an "L2 Lagrange" orbit. If I understand it correctly, that is a point between Earth, Luna and Sol where gravitational forces between said bodies are balanced. One reason the project is so expensive is the designers are designing multiple redundancies into the telescope to guard against failure. Once the telescope is launched, it cannot be serviced with current transportation technology, something the James Webb team is insisting will improve. Back to the launch, as I stated, ArianeSpace has said it can launch the telescope successfully. The reflector is designed to fold up for transport, and it isn't nearly as heavy as one might think. It will also (at least for now) be sent up in two launches, the telescope on one rocket and the sun shield on another. Of course, it's possible they may be able to launch everything on one rocket if they use the new Ariane6 rocket.

@SahilP2648 3 года назад

@@Erzahler it's funny that you referred Moon and Mars (maybe) as Luna and Sol lol. But those are fitting names and should have been assigned from the beginning I think! Our moon doesn't even have a special name (cause a moon means a natural satellite orbiting a planet). We just refer our moon as our moon -_- or "the moon". So stupid.

@sgbench 3 года назад

@@SahilP2648 Sol is our sun

@SahilP2648 3 года назад

@@sgbench yeah I wasn't sure if you meant Mars or Sun cause Sol is used to denote Mars days

@jamespartington8726 3 года назад

Science should not be an excuse to interrupt a culturally significant place for people.

@soumyadipsarkar2910 3 года назад

It's true cultural heritage should respected to preserve the values of identity. But searching for truth and venturing out in the universe is also a part of human identity that has stayed with us from before emergence of any religion or culture. Searching for truth and yearning for the beyond also shouldn't be stopped for a human culture that is forever changing. I am sure hawaiian people and the government will respect each other go ahead with a step that keeps the best of both.

@soumyadipsarkar2910 3 года назад

@TheExplorer it is also a human identity to be in a tribe. Follow a culture. Just like we follow science. Just like we become excited about finding an interstellar asteroid. So yes cultural identities should protected and respected to an extent. But not so much that human advancement is stopped to protect a culture.

@soumyadipsarkar2910 3 года назад

@TheExplorer also the mauna kea controversy is not anti science. Its just the people are striving to bd heard. I am sure if the government communicate with the people. Make them understand that. What the telescope will do is nothing different than our great human ancestors did when sailing across pacific ocean and venturing to new continents.

@sudhakar7889 3 года назад

I'd like to to see what you say if government allows a telescope to be mounted on Tirupati Balaji hills.

@soumyadipsarkar2910 3 года назад

@@sudhakar7889 most welcome. I would like great telescopes on the indian subcontinents. Indian astronomers will have gold in there hand if india can achieve something like this. The indian astronomy community suffers greatly because of not having better equipments.

@soumyadipsarkar2910 3 года назад

@@sudhakar7889 and that's what I am saying. That if hawaiian govt should make the people understand that searching distant stars and mapping out universe is the same that the great hawaiian settlers did when they sailed across the ocean. A telescope should not hurt their cultural sentiments because it's the same driving force that compels human being to venture furthur and discover new worlds.

@Nerfcar1 3 года назад

At least they aren't building a casino or a hotel, it's a tool for discovering new things.

@FirestormX9 3 года назад

If they were, it'd have been built by now. Motivation for profit is higher than the motivation for scientific discovery.

@christopherharmon2433 2 года назад

Those would bring in tax revenue, not just new scientific discoveries, so they would in fact get built. Money always speaks the loudest to politicians.

@onikarutherford7021 2 года назад

a tool that was placed on sacred ground, without approval from sovereign nations, in the context of the U.S. government overthrowing the Hawaiian monarchy. This could have been built anywhere else, and yet we placed it on one of the most sacred sites of Hawaii.

@Samartitxiki 2 года назад

@@onikarutherford7021 observatories need more than just available land. The only valid argument for not placing an observatory there is that the land is sacred to a few people. While this argument is valid it is not sound, it could be argued that the observatory would be a sacred addition. To many other people and religions these mountains are a product of plate tectonics, nothing more. To appropriately defend the sacred argument the religion would have to be demonstrated to be true, which cannot be done.

@meropealcyone 7 месяцев назад

Of course it couldn't have been built "anywhere else".@@onikarutherford7021

@ricardop2458 3 года назад

It´s just a telescope, The Mount is eternal, it will be there long after the telescope is gone.

@DJCarrotMD 3 года назад

That was an awesome doc! I hope to see more like this on here in the future

@Q269 3 года назад

We have like 15 Telescopes on the island, there does come a point where you have to ask "can you replace an existing one?"

@SahilP2648 3 года назад

We can't

@Q269 3 года назад

@@SahilP2648 I mean, I know it's physically possible. So, can you explain what is preventing this option?

@poksnee 3 года назад

@@Q269 Money

@RipMinner 3 года назад

@@Q269 The Telescopes have a knock on effect when networking together.

@hunterz1x321 3 года назад

The closer the telescope is to the earths core the less effective they are. So the higher they are, the better resolution we can get from them. Yes we can put more in space like the Hubble space telescope but then you’re talking about WAY more money than it would on top of a mountain.

@dantheman2907 3 года назад

What an incredible and moving documentary. I've long been fascinated by the work coming from those telescopes, but not once had I considered the impact they may have on the natives peoples.

@kaanboztepe 3 года назад

if there are already 132 observatories there and this one is the most advanced why not replace one of the older obsolete ones?

@Paradox1012 3 года назад

The position of the telescope is just as,if not far more valuable than its quality for something like an observatory. If Maui's observatory's did not exist many comets as of recent would not have been discovered.

@zadraking 3 года назад

@@mikeycrackson you're the one not making sense.

@sspectre8217 3 года назад

@@mikeycrackson it kinda would be, if they were to replace one they’d have roughly two options: Tear it down to its foundations, rework the place to suit the new structure. That would slow construction considerably and cost a lot more. Rework the design of the telescope to minimize the work needed to basically modify an existing one to have the functionality and capabilities of the new telescope. This would also be more expensive and might not be possible to achieve. It is a problematic situation and it’ll take some effort to appease the natives and build this telescope.

@jeremieburton4232 3 года назад

Because the older ones are not obsolete as you say. Even though they are smaller and of lower resolution, they still continue to offer a lot of valuable data for science. It would be quite wasteful to shut one down to build the TMT, instead of just building it alongside the others. And anyway, repurposing is not really an option because the TMT is so much bigger than what is already built, in the end this option would probably cost more.

@boxr_4214 3 года назад

are the older ones actually obsolete though? that’s what i want to know. i have a feeling they are still in use and serve purposes.

@Matt0sh 3 года назад

Mauna Kea is a huge mountain and I feel like construction of a single telescope can't do much harm to environment They are not Building a hotel or sth It's just a telescope It's not a huge build And there are other telescopes there as well I feel like the locals are a little bit too emotional about the situation Correct me if I'm wrong Edit: Also it isn't disrespecting their culture or sth It will help scientists to discover new things in the space And their ancestors also loved watching sky I think their ancestors would agree on building that

@wanggaard 3 года назад

It sounded to me like they were protesting that the placement of TMT was at the absolute summit of the mountain, the most holy place on their holy mountain. I'm curious if there are locations further down the mountain that would be acceptable, and how much impact that would have on the quality of the telescope. It does seem weird to me that they put 30 odd telescopes on the mountain and NOW they are taking a stand, unless it really is the summit that they want protected.

@Toastmaster_5000 3 года назад

@@wanggaard According to the video, it's the location and the size they don't like. I don't see why the telescope must be built on the summit. What's a couple dozen meters lower going to do to screw up the telescope?

@falxonPSN 3 года назад

@@Toastmaster_5000 I'm just guessing, but probably block its view of a large part of the sky. With a multi-hundred million USD investment, losing 10% of the viewable sky is a big deal, not even considering that there may be points of interest to view in that part of the sky.

@megamanx466 3 года назад

@@falxonPSN There are other places all over the world to put a telescope and *beyond* it. The likely reason they want it there is because TMT has committed to it and perhaps the submit may be above the cloud cover.

@TurtleTechno1 3 года назад

@@wanggaard Native Hawaiians have always protested the building of the telescopes. This is the largest protest (to my knowledge) because the culture has had a large reawakening in the last two to three decades. Unfortunately, due to cultural suppression, the past telescopes were either build before the Hawaiian Renaissance or during the beginnings of the movement so the Native Hawaiians were not consulted or public hearings on the matter were not broadcast to the general population. (Remember the cultural identity of the Native Hawaiians was basically obliterated. Native knowledge of the land, rituals, technology, etc. was purposefully outlawed). The TMT also bypassed a lot of public hearings and environmental studies needed for the construction to expedite the process, so even now, just like in the past, the Native Hawaiians were unable to take formal steps to prevent the construction before it was too late.

@apostolosbebis2007 3 года назад

this telescope is for all humanity

@lolt642 3 года назад

how does it help all humanity? what is it doing for the natives who had their land taken?

@frankcastle5737 3 года назад

@Neil Deep you may try and justify white privilege but you're not going to white wash lands, cultures, and indigenous people of their lands.

@JaniahOnfroy 3 года назад

No it isnt

@sufficientmagister9061 2 года назад

@@frankcastle5737 Bulding a largely scentific center that has a huge telescope will provide jobs, then it will improve the economy of Hawaii. When scientific progress is halted because of some baseless, primitive culture, it becomes a serious problem. This is not justifying "white privilege", this is supporting scientific progress and discoveries. How you brought white privilege into this was nothing more than a case of political paranoia; this Thirty Meter Telescope will not "white wash" lands, cultures, and indigenous people of their lands. TMT will provide indigenous people with jobs, but it will also expose indigenous people to the awesomeness of astronomy, cosmology, and scientific knowledge. Do you wonder why no one takes you pseudo-progressives seriously? Because of the politically paranoid nonsense that is your comment. Find something more productive to do with your time, ignorant one.

@mitchelllawrence6355 3 года назад

Solidarity with the Kānaka Maoli and land protectors everywhere. We must reconcile our past, and not just ignore it for the sake of progress.

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

Solidarity with insanity? Why? The only reason we are here is due to progress. For the sake of progress we must go forward.

@RobertoCarlosM 3 года назад

Science, knowledge and discovery that benefits us all should be the priority. Humanity really needs to embrace our future more, and distance itself from various aspects of the past that holds it back. Instead of focusing on the fantasies of the past, stopping progress in name of stories from a time when we knew less, makes no sense. Hawaii, like Chile should embrace and strive to lead here, be the example and push mankind forward.

@bokiNYC 3 года назад

Agree 100%, well said.

@benwilms3942 3 года назад

Exactly, especially considering that Polynesians were the forerunners of navigation by stars....

@lolt642 3 года назад

don't you think that's an entitled way to talk? saying "fantasties of the past" just cause you dont like their beliefs? remember, we overthrew their kingdom and started doing whatever we want to their land, and but you say they should get over it and push mankind forward? don't forget there are OTHER places this telescope can go. they aren't bad people rudely standing in the way of your science utopia. it doesn't even benefit us all like you say.

@RobertoCarlosM 3 года назад

@@lolt642 Not at all. Yeah, thinking a mountain is sacred will definitely help us move forward.... And yes, fantasies of the past. Today still across the world we have these unfortunate relics of our past that still cause plenty of pain and destruction in one way or another, and bring no benefits, besides dragging us, impeding human progress. Fantasies from a less knowledgeable past, a limited past, a less educated past in relation to the wealth of information we have today. Some ties with the past need to be severed, this is one of them.

@confirmjannati 3 года назад

Very well said 👍🏻

@hudsoncampbell5064 3 года назад

It truly makes me sad to see there is still such a divide between culture and science, they can coexist, we just need to put more effort in on both sides. Wish you all the best, keep it real 😊

@Eradicationist 3 года назад

science doesn't believe the sun and stars and earth and volcanos were made from celestial beings, that is silly, and when people finally realize space is made from masses and gravity from the masses and matter and compression and stop thinking so small about gods and religion doing those things, then maybe, but half the people in this video were just religious protestors stopping what could potentially be meteor and asteroid detecting observatories for 10 years, people don't truly understand and think about how dangerous space and earth itself is and that there are rogue asteroid and meteors we can't detect or see and not only that but other planets we could have been discovering to inhabit in the future as the sun will engulf the earth and it will get much hotter and uninhabitable before that with our population doubling, I think we should build them regardless of religion or culture personally.

@boxr_4214 3 года назад

@@Eradicationist dude your name is literally eradicationism

@koushikroy7587 3 года назад

@@Eradicationist wait a minute science doesn't agree or disgree the celestial being because currently there is no scientific expriment to proof or disproof the claim until science doesn't proof or disproof something that is not fact that is hypothesis

@andrewpaulhart 3 года назад

@@Eradicationist neither do most of the protesters.

@Eradicationist 3 года назад

@@koushikroy7587 there is more evidence of disproof though than proof, through science as the books and text of the bible and of the like straight lie and say ridiculous things like evil poisoned apples that were eaten, and people are born of ribs of other people, and planets are made from gods, which we have disproved, its physics, not even recently but long ago, (or like in this video the celestial beings made the volcanos and mountains), but simpletons still believe to latch onto hope to see dead loved ones and tell their kids about the mythical stories and beliefs as if they are true, so they believe them blindly, because you always listen to your parents, because they are your parents. I think it's sadder that some parents force Christianity and religion and these beliefs onto their kids and force kids to go to church from birth and then they know nothing else and don't believe in science because it goes against everything they have ever known.

@intotheunknown8100 3 года назад

Being an outsider it's very easy to say in favor of TMT but maybe it is very very different from their perspective. Science must carry on, Hopefully they will understand it too, and appreciate scientific advancement with cooperation .

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

It is very easy. This is not an oil pipeline, not a nuclear power plant they are building. If it was, opposition to this would be understandable. But no, what we are talking about here is a Scientific Wonder. They should be honored to see it on top of their sacred mountain. It should be considered a boon, not a negative.

@user-do5zk6jh1k 3 года назад

@@PresidentialWinner They also protest against this "astronomy industry", as if there is money to be made off astronomy.

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

@@user-do5zk6jh1k yeah............

@sapumali4943 3 года назад

Very interesting, thank you for this amazing work 🎊

@shootsbraw 3 года назад

Loving these colabs with scientific creators! Amazing. More please

@davidchia7951 3 года назад

Tq for doing tis piece, Seeker 👍🏼

@James42_ 3 года назад

The one thing that I don’t understand about the world is why they teach history/past but not about the future? To give hopes that humanity will move on

@fugslayernominee1397 3 года назад

This!!! History relating to the religion and culture is the worst. It was ok before to unite people they needed culture or religion but not now not in this modern era where where world communication is as easy as breathing. It's time people should think bigger and for the entire human race.

@Erzahler 3 года назад

@@fugslayernominee1397 So a People's history is irrelevant now, is that it? What if someone dug up and destroyed all of your ancestors' graves in the name of "science?" Would you feel the same? I can see both sides of this issue. I am all for the advancement of science, but I also understand the importance of preserving and respecting the religious and historical significances of these Native Hawaiians. Most important is respect, a concept which has been lost in the "touchy-feely me-me-me" generation of the 21st Century. I do hope that both sides will come to some sort of compromise which will assure the future of scientific discovery while also preserving the past. You can't understand where you're going if you don't know where you've been. The future must be rooted in the past for it to mean anything.

@gigachad6162 3 года назад

Because history inevitably repeats itself

@Erzahler 3 года назад

@@gigachad6162 History repeats itself ONLY if we don't learn history's lessons and move forward. You cannot go into the future without some idea of where you came from or about who and what you are. Your culture, your history, your ancestors all define who you are today.

@itheuserfirst3186 3 года назад

@@Erzahler Knowing about the past and living in it are two different things.

@mfg587 3 года назад

great film, interesting conundrum they have there, I hope they are able to find a mutually beneficial solution to that issue.

@burggerbig102 3 года назад

I believe telescopes are the only buildings that deserve to be built in such places.

@serbanandrei7532 3 года назад

@julienking2547 3 года назад

True, a symbol of human exploration without being an eyesore and without destroying the landscape.

@Dinitroflurbenzol 3 года назад

would like to add hospitals to that list

@SyntheticFuture 3 года назад

@@Dinitroflurbenzol Bit of an impracticle place, but I get your point :P

@Dinitroflurbenzol 3 года назад

@@SyntheticFuture yeah, it is aweful and dusty there :D

@Jakob172 3 года назад

Sounds like a lot of these goals will also be accomplished with the new ELT in Chile. Would have been interesting to hear what opportunities TMT will bring that the ELT won't and whether there are alternative locations available on Mount Kea that the inhabitants would be okay with. And wouldn't a public vote of the inhabitants of the island on the matter settle the issue?

@supercheetah778 3 года назад

There *were* other locations considered for the TMT, including one in Chile. There were six total locations that were being considered.

@christopherharmon2433 2 года назад

Chile is in the wrong hemisphere.

@urbnctrl Год назад

@@christopherharmon2433 is that why they annexed Rapa Nui and colonized it recently?

@christopherharmon2433 Год назад

@@urbnctrl Who did (annexed it, Ecuador has had it for decades) ? Also its in the southern hemisphere, and like Chile in the wrong location.

@nisheethrastogi 3 года назад

Science awakens truly and deeply.

@feelinfroggy1733 2 года назад

❤️ anyone can understand this we standup for our home.

@ricardodelzealandia6290 3 года назад

This could be the most peaceful and most respectable protest from both sides I've ever seen.

@jamiebrock7157 3 года назад

Culture should not restrict progress out of fear from change. All cultures go away it is always been this way.

@peterburbery2341 3 года назад

I would think everyone could get behind science and astrophysics for the furthering of human knowledge.

@richardjordan9092 3 года назад

Not when you're close minded and brainwashed into thinking the land is magical

@mako1181 3 года назад

What is the most important site in your culture? And would you allow it to be desecrated in the name of science?

@peterburbery2341 3 года назад

@@mako1181 I consider science to be the most important site because I am a scientist.

@mako1181 3 года назад

@@peterburbery2341 I also trust and believe in the scientific method, but I do not think I could say the same. It's funny, you are the second person to comment something like this to me; it challenges my ego, but that is also fine.

@frappey1 3 года назад

jpnewPic88.Men

@thedduck 3 года назад

You can't really blame the protesters here. It's a cultural thing, it's their beliefs, it's their identity, it's their native lands. Remember that throughout history (and will be for "forever") basically every culture, beliefs/religion, in this world has an example of people fighting and protecting things that they believe in, no matter how trivial or "stupid" that is from the outsider perspective. Now I hope that the science community here learns to respect and compromise for the sake of everyone on both sides.

@gregthomson8251 3 года назад

They have 13 telescopes there already......why complain about No 14. Have the previous ones taken their identity away....no. The scope is literally in/above the clouds but will benefit the world...🤷🏼‍♂️

@fatsquirrel75 3 года назад

Would be nice if the locals consider compromise also, otherwise I'm not sure that word means what you think it does.

@natureswrath7665 3 года назад

@@gregthomson8251 are you stupid? It's because its at the most sacred area, the others aren't, thats like saying why complain that they are destroying the Whitehouse to build this when they are ok with 13 around D.C

@samudrajs5409 3 года назад

What do they mean by "Protecting mountain Mauna" huh!? What is there to protect it from? The observatory will impact pretty much nothing on the mountain!

@dub6pimp 3 года назад

they used tnt, and dumped their sewage and mirror cleaner into the ground for a long time. Millions of gallons 😳

@samudrajs5409 3 года назад

@@dub6pimp Why would they!? For making a negligible (compared to the size of the mountain) road!?

@TryingtobeStoic 3 года назад

@@dub6pimp Now this would have been a better arguing point.

@djp1234 3 года назад

If there were historical artifacts buried underground there, then it should be preserved. If not, then science > culture/religion.

@djp1234 3 года назад

@@mako1181 my culture is science and advancing the human race forward.

@mako1181 3 года назад

What is the most important site in your culture? And would you allow it to be desecrated in the name of science?

@mako1181 3 года назад

@@djp1234 For the same reasons that answering "I don't see colour" (when talking about race theory) is a shitty thing to say. This reply or anything along the lines of "I only see us as one culture" is equally blind to history of the majority of peoples.

@djp1234 3 года назад

@@mako1181 I don’t care about skin color. If white people were getting in the way of science, I’d still support science. And we have plenty of anti-science white people in this country. About 75 million of them.

@frappey1 3 года назад

jpnewPic88.Men

@live4twilight4ever 3 года назад

I've seen a couple of documentaries like this, on some level they do make me hopeful about the future but they do always end so ambiguously. "Things look ok ... for now." It never ends.

@tractusparkour 3 года назад

So it seems like the problem is the continued desecration of the mountain through continued construction. Why can't one or more of the older observatories be removed and replaced by the TMT so that no new land is desecrated?

@symbally 3 года назад

at this point, given the convenience of putting rockets in to space, what is the real benefit to using land based telescopes compared to going orbital? Would a collective of satellite telescopes working in unison create a scope that nothing on Earth could parallel. I totally understand and agree with the science angle but, here, wouldn't it be nicer to keep a patch of our beautiful world as pristine as possible?

@julienking2547 3 года назад

Frankly speaking, it would be significantly more expensive to put a large telescope to orbit. Space based telescopes have to be built in such extreme precision because you only have one shot and we can't send astronauts to fix a telescope millions of kilometers away. Another, a huge telescope to the scale of the TMT would require so much engineering and a massive rocket, and I don't think it would efficiently fit inside even the most capable rockets we have today. I hope I answered your question well Edit: an example of why space based telescopes are hard to build is the James Webb space telescope, it has been delayed for quite a few years already.

@boxr_4214 3 года назад

you can’t put a 30 meter telescope up in space. and a collection of separate telescopes is not the same thing as one big one. not to mention the extraordinary difficulty of getting a massive mirror up into space without damaging it. telescopes of this size already take nearly a decade to construct on earth, just imagine what it would take to get these telescopes up in space.

@symbally 3 года назад

Thanks for the replies, genuinely. So, technical problems are the only real limitation; sensitive payload and difficult to configure. One thing i don't get is that, this isn't about one giant 30 meter mirror, it will be made out of 492 single hexagonal segments so, I don't quite see the same challenge present. Given the delicate nature of optics, until the dream of a space elevator becomes reality, would it be be easier to manufacture something like this in space?

@johnwalters1207 3 года назад

Born and raised in Hawaii. This was and is a huge issue for us. Thank you for bringing more awareness to it.

@mysterio1359 3 года назад

5:54 lol "Astronomy INDUSTRY"... Did she think this is like a Coal Mine or something where a company try to make profit for their own by building the telescope??🤣🤣

@StrangeTerror 3 года назад

Lol I can see it now. "WTS groundbreaking understanding of black holes - $32b"

@mysterio1359 3 года назад

@@StrangeTerror wtf so cheap dude!🤣

@StrangeTerror 3 года назад

@@mysterio1359 lol I didn't say it was everything to know about them did I? 😜

@Omnifarious0 3 года назад

What I find interesting is how this conflict can be explored in a way that humanizes all involved and tells their story with empathy. This is not what I've come to expect from the past several years. I think all cultures need to find their own paths to make a place for science to be held in a certain kind of sacred place. Not the things science discovers, but the process of applying the scientific method to the world to learn how it truly is. Integrating that unflinching search for truth into the stories that define you and your relationship to others will benefit your culture in the long run.

@onikarutherford7021 2 года назад

This is a nice sentiment, but if a sovereign nation tells us "no, we do not want our most sacred mountain to be desecrated by colonialism yet again," we need to listen to them. It is not our choice. We have already inflicted so much pain on Indigenous people - when will it be enough?

@dhopp1980 3 года назад

Im sorry but I don't agree im a native American and can talk all about sacred land being taken... but something we all need to understand is that no land on earth belongs to any one person, groups of persons, or a movement and this telescope will help advance our astronomy endeavors along with creating jobs as well as take care of the land surrounding the telescope... I mean it's not as if the land is being destroyed Rather the land surrounding the telescope will be well kept and respected

@alandonly 3 года назад

Dialogue and consultation hasn’t been adequate if any culture on the planet doesn’t welcome a telescope at their most sacred spaces. Every culture has star awe at its core and its first foundation of worship.

@nazosman984 3 года назад

The telescope should NOT be built. Imagine building it in Jerusalem or Makkah. That would be a non starter. So why disrespect the Hawains beliefs. Completely unacceptable. Well done to those who stood up. Or image a similar thing at the pentagon or Buckingham Palace or another place with significance. Wow the more I think about it the more I realise how disrespectful this is.

@jacobtanaka6398 3 года назад

Being born and raised here on Hawaii island, I'm proud to say I fully support TMT. These protesters are a small but very loud group trying to impose their beliefs on everyone else. It really does come down to facts VS feeling. TMT will be over a mile from the summit, use a total of 3 acres (including the access road) of the 10,000 acres of science reserve. The actual summit has a shrine and would never be touch because of sensitivity for the culture. TMT will also only be visible from a small portion of the island and will have all waste stored in double walled tanks till it's trucked off the mountain. I could go on and on about the nonsense these protesters have caused here, but I don't have the time...

@onikarutherford7021 2 года назад

I'm guessing you're white.

@jacobtanaka6398 2 года назад

@@onikarutherford7021 damn, rasist much?

@bradhayes8294 3 года назад

My wife and I have been up to the top of Mauna Kea to see the observatory's twice. It is so incredibly cold up there.

@k.r.99 2 года назад

Believe it or not, a racing game with Oahu as its map made me come here. Very interesting and exciting docu. I was driving around in the game and found an observatory and wanted to know if it was fictional or inspired by a real one, well, that's basically how i ended up here.

@amaljoe367 3 года назад

Idk...in our country, cultures and stupid beliefs only helped to divide and cause harm. As human beings we should share the same culture, know more about the universe and our position in it...

@macdietz 3 года назад

...there is no shared human culture. Culture is local.

@shimnakt955 3 года назад

Malayali annalle❓😂

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

@@macdietz It's true we do not share the same culture. And culture did not unite humanity, quite the opposite, most wars historically have been fought because one culture wanted to dominate another. One civilization wanted to conquer others. It is quite recent that we have seen global peace, a single world (mostly) united together. Not because we have the same culture, but because we have agreed to work together despite our cultural differences. Think of the UN and all the global co-operation we have done in the past 70 years.

@frappey1 3 года назад

jpnewPic88.Men

@mbj__ 3 года назад

The telescope is an instrument of wisdom, knowledge and curiosity of the heaven. I find it sad that people having seafairing ancestors using the stars to navigate would oppose the construction. The telescope could just as well be seen as a great way to carry their history forward. Very sad.

@rigs54321 2 года назад

It’s more of principle. The Hawaiians were promised only one telescope and Americans just kept building and building and now they have 22 telescopes. The summit of the volcano is very sacred so when the government keeps building and keeping their promise, then eventually you have to stand up based on principle of keeping what is sacred, sacred.

@Alexus00712 3 года назад

Does anybody know how the current status of this thing is?

@ClebyHerris 3 года назад

They halted construction late last year due to current world events and they have it planned for 2027 so this isn’t coming anytime soon. Their Wikipedia page is pretty updated

@boxr_4214 3 года назад

@@ClebyHerris yeah it takes a very long time to build these kinds of telescopes, especially considering the location.

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

It's a war of attrition then...and only one side can wait forever. What are they going to do? Spend their whole lives on that road? For what? Eventually the telescope will be built and that is going to push our understanding of our universe ever further.

@frappey1 3 года назад

jpnewPic88.Men

@ParOtechnic 3 года назад

Ok now we need to know more about the black hole at M87 galaxy please 😁

@alparslankorkmaz2964 3 года назад

Nice video.

@richardjordan9092 3 года назад

Only 33 people protested lol. It's literally barren land. How is it sacred?

@vp3970 4 дня назад

How? It shows you’re ignorant, you should research. You need to open your ears, thousands Protested the 33 were Kupuna or elders. Ho’olohe!

@jagan541 3 года назад

Avatar!

@josef9988 3 года назад

I understand the cultural importance of Mauna Kea, but it's not like they are building something bad. It's literally to advance human understandment of the universe, they should be proud !!

@abramrexjoaquin7513 3 года назад

Mix Traditional and Progression. Assimilate the culture towards the science of it. Let the people be closer to each other and respect both processes. The telescope should be a symbolic gesture towards the gods that they want to get closer to them and reach the farthest parts of the unseen.

@ZacDonald 3 года назад

It is sad, but somewhat refreshing, to see a construction project conversation around science/human advancement vs culture instead of business and profit vs culture like we've seen with Dakota Access Pipeline protests.

@hiHi-iq5yp 3 года назад

@@abramrexjoaquin7513 I don't think you fully understand the issue. When the telescopes are finished the surrounding lands would be fenced in and become private property owned by the science community. Mauna Kea is sacred to the Native Hawaiians and is the zenith of their ancestral ties to creation. The upper regions, Wao Akua, are the realms of the Akua (creator) and the summit is a temple of the Supreme Being in not only Hawaiian culture but also in many histories throughout Polynesia. It is the home of Na Akua (divine deities) and Na’Aumakua (divine ancestors) as well as the meeting place of Papa (Earth Mother) and Wakea (Sky Father) who are progenitors of the Hawaiian people. It is also both a burial ground and the embodiment of ancestors that include Na Alii and Kahuna (high ranking chiefs and priests.) Modern Native Hawaiians continue to regard Mauna Kea with reverence and many cultural and religious practices are still performed there.

@abramrexjoaquin7513 3 года назад

@@hiHi-iq5yp bring the people in with the scientific community. Have them be the organizers. Have them do their rituals on the ground. Everything that is humanly natural does not disrupt measurements. Humanly natural. Meaning no fire, metals or electronic devices. Dances and cultural story telling are not disruptive and can be done in the observatory building itself.

@hiHi-iq5yp 3 года назад

@@abramrexjoaquin7513 but the problem is that it’s not going to happen everything surrounding the telescopes are private property now. Their not going to let some native people disrupt whatever they are doing.

@saulgoodman2018 3 года назад

They have all these other mountains. Why are they complaining about someone wanting to build on one mountain?

@mikeoxsmal8022 3 года назад

Cuz the mountain is sacred And the others are not?

@saulgoodman2018 3 года назад

@@mikeoxsmal8022 It is the best mountain for them to use. To Hawaiian's, everything is "sacred".

@markshiman5690 3 года назад

Does anyone think Seeker has too few views for their number of subscribers?

@sab611 3 года назад

Could have sworn this was a Patagonia vid ;-)

@maksimatic 3 года назад

Fighting an invisible enemy, literally imagining a conflict into existence. That’s what this is, unfortunately.

@blondegirlsezthis8798 3 года назад

ultimate lame take

@shunpillay 3 года назад

A quality piece of work. Well done.

@patriciaflores5310 3 года назад

Well done!

@alexf749 3 года назад

Hawaii is its own country like New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa and should still be. So sad.

@recklessrecluse9123 3 года назад

Hawaiians: 13 telescopes is okay... but not 14. That's too many!

@lolt642 3 года назад

i dont imagine they were particularly happy with those first 13. do you?

@recklessrecluse9123 3 года назад

@@lolt642 You're probably correct with that assumption. But why didn't they block the road off from the construction crews on telescope #13, #12, #11, etc?

@lolt642 3 года назад

@@recklessrecluse9123 maybe they did, i'd have to look into that.

@recklessrecluse9123 3 года назад

@@lolt642 If they did, then we still hope for the TMT

@meepotello626 3 года назад

@jijs _ people just run their mouth without knowing anything bro , just like the people above

@petric334 2 года назад

Did anyone propose demolishing an existing telescope to build the new one? Footprint neutral and a possible compromise.

@808-PFH-Kanaka-Rights Год назад

bruh, they literally should of just done that, and told the people that, and yet, people can be so naive sometimes

@rca168 3 года назад

Proposition: make a huge free and open university at the base of the Mauna that teaches science, astronomy and Hawaiian culture.

@scottymeffz5025 3 года назад

Build it. A mountain is only a mountain.

@JohnMiller2 3 года назад

To me I find it unique and special to have a strong culture and connection amongst one another, especially when your land was annexed illegally and your culture has been slowly and methodically silenced. If we remove every evidence of human culture and heritage we will soon have no identity at all in my opinion. I love space travel and can't wait for answers what's beyond the stars but not at the cost of valuable cultural sites. The film didn't discuss the possibility of another placement for the telescope just that it was the "preferred location". Advancement with cooperation is as someone said key but there is two sides to cooperation always and the natives cooperation shouldn't be taken for granted.

@Slashplite 3 года назад

there are different options, but not on US territory. I doubt USA wants to spend so much money to build something in a "third world country"

@anonymousstout4759 3 года назад

This kind people doesn't want to change with the world but when we leave them alone they will accuse us that we abandoning them, not caring about them down build enough infrastructure for them etc. They're the one who hinder their own progress they refused to be incorporated to the fast growing society

@Reno_Slim 3 года назад

Exploring the heavens seems like a properly sacred purpose to me. Plus, having telescopes up there gives a great reason to keep any kind of light producing developments away for hundreds of square miles.

@lolt642 3 года назад

there are 13 telescopes on the mountain already

@sailingsvzara 2 года назад

@@lolt642 they are decomissioning 5 while only adding 1.

@goyonman9655 2 года назад

It's very disgraceful how y'all are describing as "the heavens" because y'all are trying to appeal to a religious minority

@FritzSchober 3 года назад

Always looking back won't advance you in the future. Maybe the gods want us to explore their universe? If not, they could tell us. Seems they are ok with our search for new knowledge.

@mlgklipz2543 3 года назад

Me Being more into science and against mythical stuff, you might be surprised that I think culture is more important. You will find millions more places for observatories but 0 cultures like this one. I am from India if that matter.

@fernandozenomiranda9470 3 года назад

This reminded me of those times where colonists would come to undiscovered countries and start taking away everything its natives had, even their lives. Even though this is not as awful as those times I hope they can find that middle ground so that those tragedies may never happen again. I'm in favor of building the telescope, but not at the cost of stepping on people's beliefs and trying to replace them with convenient stuff.

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

You can't have it both ways. You are in favor or not. Are you in favor of superstitious beliefs overriding our desire to discover the secrets of our universe? Or are you in favor of building this telescope. Because it's either getting built or not.

@fernandozenomiranda9470 3 года назад

@@PresidentialWinner even if it is superstitious, you can't force anyone to make things your way. This isn't a dictatorship, first you gotta talk things through and do your best in finding a middle ground. We are human beings and that means we can communicate instead of using violence. I think they did a great job postponing the construction because that gives time for further talks. Eventually, either one or the other will give up on what they are trying to protect and it would all be done peacefully. Besides, I can assure you that if humanity keeps living like today we will have a better telescope on Mars with no atmosphere to get in the way and maybe even bigger due to a lower gravity. The target is to get there by 2026 (SpaceX) so I don't see why we must sacrifice our peace when we can just wait a couple of decades. Also we got the James Webb Space Telescope. My point is that there are alternatives and we should focus on then when things like this happen.

@jameslmathieson 3 года назад

I agree with Mailani's take on this. Using a sacred space to engage in an activity that is a furtherance of one of the hallmarks of the culture that deems it sacred is hardly a desecration. In fact, humans have been building observatories in sacred places for thousands of years. Native cultures and people throughout the world face a history and present of destruction and marginalization, but there are other activities and policies that have far greater and more tangible impacts than astronomy on Mauna Kea. We should not let ourselves be distracted over purely symbolic fights. The kupuna and the astronomers should be partners in figuring out how to make these observatories what they've always been: temples to the land and the stars.

@atharv_mahore 3 года назад

Politicians was not enough that now some culture is also standing in the path of science. It's great wow cheers for these people 👏👏👏 Someday their belief in sacredness will drown them then they'll realise how important science is for our survival.

@steffanellisdevine 3 года назад

Did they do this for the other 13 before this one? Or is it because this one has gained the lost traction because it's the biggest and best that they now need to step in? I'd understand entirely if they have always done this but if not why is it only an issue now on the 14th

@zadraking 3 года назад

It's because of the location, the location is "sacred".

@GGray. 3 года назад

Did you watch the video before putting up a comment? They said that it was because of the location and the scale of the structure... Their culture is as important as everyone else's.

@SahilP2648 3 года назад

@@GGray. culture is lifestyle. They should not be thinking materialistically in this day and age.

@campbellthomas6209 3 года назад

Is that Bill Nershi from String Cheese Incident at 6:12?

@jamiebrock7157 3 года назад

Culture arises from progress.

@spacemanspiff2137 3 года назад

There should be a native vote for whether or not the telescope should be constructed. Personally, I believe that an instrument capable of peering deeper into the universe than ever before would bring you closer to the gods

@abhivadankamboj6335 3 года назад

They should have considered ladakh for building the telescope

@TheLastStarfighter77 3 года назад

Thanks so much for this very informative documentary, this is definitely an egg shell situation and must be handled with care, perhaps there's another way and maybe they should be better of investing the money to another orbital Telescope?

@billnoa3704 Год назад

you cannot do a 30 meters space telescope....

@mikestaub 3 года назад

They should have had an NVC specialist come in and work with the tribes and scientists. There seems to be a very obvious synergy between both of their goals and this conflict could have been easily avoided if the engineers simply included all stake-holders in the planning discussions. Just offer a free educational program to all natives who are interested in science and pay them a yearly fee for using the site. We all need to respect and honor each other and our cultures. There is no reason we can't all live in harmony.

@DrewRobertson1 4 месяца назад

While I usually side with indigenous people, I find irony in the 'we navigated with stars, and we don't want anyone else learn from them.

@flymeetspaddle 3 года назад

i dunno i just see at as a deeper connection to the stars that should be embraced. i wonder if they were to shape the top by hand instead of with TNT that would help? but i have no clue. definitely have respect for both sides

@guffaw1711 3 года назад

They object to it because it's an US institution building it, that's all. If Hawaii would secede from the US and get monetary compensation for the annexation they'd have no issue with another telescope. Trust me!

@lolt642 3 года назад

@@guffaw1711 you think they would voluntarily build the telescope over their sacred site? you think its just about money to them? did you watch the video?

@aomaintenance 2 года назад

? If the hubble can see 10-15 billion light-years? Why does the telescope have to be on the top of the mountain. Are we added another light-year?

@andycig2993 3 года назад

I don't believe their gods would be against the advancement of knowledge.

@andrewrozario5127 2 года назад

This was a very inspiring documentary. I am shocked and not shocked to learn that the US stole a territory and wiped out the memory of a people.

@missanthropocene 3 года назад

Feels like im watching Dr. Stone

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

Science wins. Always.

@PresidentialWinner 3 года назад

"I'm Going To Use The Power Of Science To Discover Every Single Exoplanet."

@beatbox20fmj 3 года назад

Glad everyone is able to voice their opinions and perspectives but the issue doesn't seem to be about a telescope. Sucks science has to suffer because people can't be decent to each other.