I realize this video is old, and I realize the channel hasn't had new content for a year, but I feel obligated to point out (since this comes up high enough in the search results) some suggestions/corrections: Grease in Cylinder: Grease is designed to lubricate via a film layer formed from compressing between two objects. O-rings pushed out by air will never provide the level of compression necessary to make grease seal a cylinder effectively and consistently. This is where film lubricants like heavy weight silicon oils reign supreme. Specifically, shock oils designed for RC cars. A light film of it on the inside is designed to seal in this manner since it doesn't require compression to form the lubricating layer that actually seals the O-ring to the Cylinder wall. This is why your ICS has an FPS fluctuation of +/- 6 FPS (a 12 FPS spread in total) when it is rather easy to get it down to +/-2 to +/-4 FPS. When I was teching in my late teens and early twenties, this was the easiest way to get consistency out of an AEG. Teflon Tape for Compression: Just no... Teflon tape may work but it is neither designed to work this way, nor is it particularly effective at it. Teflon tape is designed to fit between threads and keep them from galling in pipe fittings because the amount of torque required to actually seal threads against the gasses, etc, would normally gall the threads and potentially damage them. Pipe fitting threads are also tapered. If a cylinder head doesn't fit in the cylinder well enough to form an airseal, then I'd suggest replacing the O-rings on them... if that doesn't work or isn't an option, then move on to another cylinder head. If it's an absolute emergency, silicon sealants that come in tubes are your weapon of choice here... because they are designed to seal in this manner. They make an absolute mess and require you to apply the sealant and then assemble the upper rather quickly so the sealant doesn't make the cylinder head sit crooked in the cylinder. Compression Testing: Your method of testing compression will work, however it isn't the best method. The best method is to assemble the upper portion as completely as possible. Tappet plate, piston, cylinder head, cylinder, air nozzle and test the compression ASSEMBLED. Many times the play between all of the parts will give you a "perfect" air seal when out of the gearbox but when everything is forced to line up like it would in the actual gearbox it loses that air seal because things are not aligned as they were in testing. On a standard, non split gearbox this is best approximated using half the gearbox shell, in an ICS, you can DEFINITELY do this with just the upper gearbox assembled without the spring/spring guide. You MUST check this with everything installed as it would be in the AEG. Total Air Seal Testing: It really is a great idea to test the total air seal of the system, from end of barrel to the cylinder. This is not the easiest to accomplish and I always asked my customers if they wanted me to do this level of testing or not, but when you have paying customers who expect high quality work, many are willing to have this level of testing done. There are a multitude of ways to do it, but I always preferred removing the outer barrel assembly and leaving everything that supported the hop up. Test the compression through the ENTIRE system to ensure that the hop up rubber was sealing to the air nozzle. Many opt to just test the hop up unit seal by manually holding it to the gearbox... this works in a pinch, but like testing the compression out of the gearbox, it can lead to results not matching up when assembled. I used my finger on the end of the barrel with that same hand supporting the barrel so I wasn't pushing it back in the hop up unit. I then manually compressed the cylinder with my finger. Other tips, on M4's with standard gearboxes, the one thing I found that was handy an old V2 gearbox I had... I lopped off the one side of the gearbox so I had just the upper portion of it. I'd use this to test total air seal as well as to more accurately test the compression components of the gearbox. Most V3 gearboxes are easier to test without going this route, but I was going to eventually do this with them too. Lastly, #14 O-Rings are your friend!
I know you posted this one a while ago, but Thanks! Another great video and I learned a couple new things from it. Again Thanks for all the great videos you do!
Thanks for the video. I realized my piston head was causing air leaks. It was the silent type and didn't mesh well with the washer on the cylinder head. I simply swapped it with a flat aluminum one and now it works fine. Weird lol.
you don't put grease on the cylinder bro.. that will make your cylinder and barrel dirty.. you only put grease on gears.. use silicone spray on the cylinder which is available .. use rubber sealant on the cylinder head and hop assy, that adds another 5-10fps
Awesome video massive help one question though. Dose the hop unit you use make any difference as to what air nozzle you need. I have a prowin hop up in my m4
I want to see one inside the gearbox video from you. How to make best possible air seal between nozzle and hop up bucking. I know that really important is to make both thinks as much in line as possible but how to do that in different types of bodies. M4, AK, ...
Hey Tech, really good vids, helpful and good camera-work. I've been having trouble with a G&P M4 of mine, heavily modified internally for a Trigger response (and by default, a high speed as well) build. The trouble is that I cannot get it to feed in semi-auto reliably, even with a variety of magazines. It shoots maybe 1 in 4 rounds on semi (the mode I like to use exclusively). Auto seems fine (although while shooting at high 20 rps it's hard to tell). It seems like the Air nozzle is not allowing a new round to chamber properly. The build is as follows: SHS 13:1's, Lonex A2 or 3 Motor, m100 spring, Nuke-fet, SHS HS piston, SHS piston head, stock Cylinder head/cylinder, and an unknown brand tappet plate. This is going into a Prowin hop chamber. i have replaced the tappet plate, hop bucking (Madbull red, G&G Green, and Angel Custom V) I've sector chipped the gearbox to pull the tappet plate back for a hair longer and that has helped slightly, but Im wondering what else I can try. My next step is to replace the stock aluminum air-nozzle. It seems to be a bigger problem with heavier ammo (.32s and above). Any Suggestions to get me back on track but still avoid the dreaded over-travel? Thanks.
+Matthew Peck Have you tried a delay clip on the sector gear? I had problems with my mp5 feeding when i put 13:1 gears in it, and a delay clip solved that.
+Matthew Peck I know you posted this question a while ago, but I just got done having a similar issue with my very first, high end, M4 that I've had for years. Its also a heavily modded gun, all based around a Lonex gun. I was also having feeding issues similar to yours. The first thing you'll want to check is to see if the nozzle is actually clearing the entire hop chamber to allow a BB to feed up and be pushed forward into the hop unit. Make sure the gun is cleared completely and that there is no BB in the hopup unit at all. Then look down into the hopup unit and fire the gun a few times. Does the nozzle pull all the way back and allow a BB to pass into the hop unit? If not, the BB has a hard time feeding properly. There could be several reasons for that. Tappet plate could be worn and isn't being pulled back far enough, maybe you need a delayer chip on your sector gear or you took too much material off the front of your tappet plate and the nozzle goes too far forward now. If this is happening and its now a mag or magwell issue, then one way to check it may seem like an odd thing to do, but it shows you how your nozzle is actually hitting inside the hopup unit. Remove your barrel and hopup unit from the upper and mount it onto the nozzle and let it sit on there. Then take a loaded mag and insert that into the magwell and fit the hopup unit into place. With one hand fire the gun, with the other hold the hopup/barrel assemble and move it around ever so slightly. Does that improve the ability to feed BBs up into the hopup properly? In my case it wasn't a mag issue or how it sat in the magwell. If I rocked the mag back and forth it wouldn't change anything. So it had to be how far in the nozzle was fitting into the hopup unit. And yes, it was pushing in too far and not always allowing BBs to feed. In my case it turned out that if I put a small, thin O-Ring on the back of my Lonex Enhanced hopup unit and it spaced the hopup just forward ever so slightly. Enough to allow the nozzle to clear and now all my mags (Elite Force 140rd mids and KWA K120 mids) feed proper! Making my gun fun to play with again. Good luck!
I found out how to upgrade the internals without buying any parts all you need are used worn piston and piston head with the old o rings put you Teflon tape around the piston o rings before putting the O ring and you will gain 80+ fps
I have a issue I upgraded my cyma ak74 ktr the piston nozzle cylinder and trigger and now I’m having trouble with full auto and it not wanting to engage a bb do you have any suggestions
Useful video, especially for a newcomer. However, your final chrono shows a lot of fps variation for an aeg with perfect air-seal don't you think? You have a low of 380 and a high of 392. Maybe I'm a perfectionist, but +/- 12fps would be too much variance for me if I was looking for a 'perfect' air-seal.
+/- 1-2 FPS is very good. But results can vary even between two different chronos. Also, BB quality and weight can have a big impact on readings. What weight/brand do you use?
Hi. first off great video. i wanted to know if you have any experience with a kwa erg pts. i just purchased a kwa pts erg that the previous owner has rear wired unfortunantly it seems to shoot really low fps like 50 feet! maybe less. i was told it might be air compression in the gearbox. but im not a tech... any ideas? or suggestions
RiceMobile a ported piston head i believe, the ports allow the oring to pull away from the cylinder walls on the compressing part of the spring so that it slides more easily
Nice video! Seems like you're one of the few who knows what you are talking about. I have an ics par mk3 mtr r with the 120 spring and I'm new to this. What can I do to get a good seal and increase my fps without spending too much money. The only change I've made is a precision barrel.
Try 1/2 or 1/2L... I use them in my gun, forget exactly which of the two. Buy both and try them. They're like $1 or so at Lowe's or any store like that
6:55 who you prevent that vacum if no hole ther? and if you put the hole ther no air compresion. So the question who really work this airsoft piston.? By the way look he is working but i want to know who work. thank you.
+J “Frostpirate” Gignac ICS m4s pretty much work with all parts for a v2 (Excluding nozzles). But they do have some issues such as their hopup chamber/feeding
TheAirsoftScorpion yes I'm currently in the middle of trying bucking and nub combos cause the stock hop up is garbage and doesn't even apply hop until it's 3/4 on
AJ Enojardo That is to lighten the piston body Less reciprocating mass = higher rpm, less breakage, (higher durability),should increase fps out of the barrel.
On the piston head? Yes. Otherwise it might create a vacuum inside the cylinder when the piston is getting pushed back and not getting enough air for the shot.
It's actually impossible for the piston head to create a vacuum in the cylinder when it's being retracted because the air nozzle is retracted before the piston is engaged by the sector gear.
You'll never get 100% compression with a standard set-up, and certainly not with the 'standard' overhaul regime (clean, then slap grease over everything. Why do your AEGs lose compression over time? Because the grease catches and holds dust/dirt/debris every single time you fire it, the AEG Gearbox is just a glorified Air Pump after all, sucking in outside air with every stroke. Imagine if you stripped your G/Box down after every few hundred rounds and cleaned and re-lubed it. It would be an improvement, but the Grease would still be holding that dirt. Only guaranteed way to keep your AEG's performance as good as possible, is to not use Grease on assembly. Spray Silicone lube directly into the Cylinder as often as is practical, after every game (that's every game, not game day) if it's dry and dusty. Use a long thin tube, like the ones you get with some Aerosols, join them together with Heat-Shrink, and/or sections of Silicone Wire insulation. You want it long enough to reach down from the Muzzle, into the Cylinder, and spray directly onto the Piston head. You can also buy lengths of very thin plastic tubing very cheaply. Let it soak for a minute, then fire a few dozen shots to expel the excess. Finally, squeeze a 'skinny' cigarette Filter endways between your fingers to expand it's diameter slightly (they're a shade under 6mm out-of-the-box), push it down the Barrel until it hits the Hop Rubber inlet Lip, then fire it out. Do that once more, and voila, you have a perfectly lubed Piston-Head O-Ring and Cylinder, with no excess grease anywhere. It flushes out the small amount of crap that's got in since last time, leaving the insides as clean as when they were assembled. Just enough lube for a game or two. It takes a minute to do it, easily done between games. Do it at the end of the day too. Your AEG will keep it's FPS constant for as long as you keep up this routine. I chronoed my CA AK a few months ago, after it had been unused for over five years, gave around 345fps, just a few fps down on when it was last used (350-ish).
Silicon spray collects just as much dust and dirt as silicon grease, sometimes more because it becomes sticky with time. That's a problem that anyone who uses GBB weapons will encounter. Green gas has silicone lube added to protect the o-rings. The silicon gets transferred to the bucking. Hop becomes ineffective. Spraying silicon into the air group may be a lazy short term fix, but ultimately it will cause you more problems than proper regular servicing. A good tech will use both grease and spray depending on the need. What do you think's going to happen to all that crap you're spraying into your cylinder after every game ... it will cleanly evaporate?
I lube the air seal parts on assembly, and last time I chronoed my upgraded ICS MP5 the seal had actually improved from when I assembled it. It shot 1.45 joules freshly assembled, with maybe a couple FPS deviation, last time I chronoed it, a few months and maybe 20k shots after assembly it had gone up to 1.5 joules and was still nice and consistent. Silicone spray is way too thin to give a somewhat lasting lubrication, I use silicone paste or high viscosity silicone oil, works like a charm.
That was my point. Silicone spray isn't meant to be a 'lasting' lubricant, I spray it into the Cylinder before and after each and every time the AEG is used, it keeps the Cylinder and Piston Head O-Ring perfectly clean and lubed indefinitely. It's like stripping and lubing your Gearbox after every game, and you can't get better than that, can you! Your findings will be due to the lube thinning out after some use, eventually it will start to deteriorate. I'd like to see the internals when you finally strip it down, I guarantee it won't be pretty!
Gf walked in and I paused on the superlube section of the video. She thought I was researching to spice up our sex life. Can you believe she got angry cause its airsoft stuff? My crew only understands...
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