Inside the Positron 3D Printer: A Deep Dive 

Great minds… something something…

Me too. A much longer wait than I had hoped but glad to see it finally coming around for folks to enjoy and iterate on.

Form factor refers to size/shape/specs. Are you saying this is a size that has been missing from the market? That there isn't a 180^3 printer available? That we are unable to print in this size with the current limitations in the market? That this shape (same as other printers, mind you) has been missing. Or that the specs of 180x185x180 have not been met by current offering in the market. I think I can print EVERYTHING this form factor prints, on any of my printers that measure at least 180x185x180. Only thing it won't do is print them upside down, unless I flip my machine over, which is as dumb as this.

@@ogpennywise what other machine has this Form Factor? You are purely looking at print build volume, that’s is NOT the full picture. I recently took a Voron 0.2 to RMRRF. That has a 120mm cubed build volume. It requires a pelican case that is 4 times the size of the one that the Positron fits in, and I had to pay to check that bag as it was too large to fit in overhead bins. On the way back from RMRRF Nomad and I were on the same flight home. He carried on the Positron and stowed it in the overhead. My Voron went into the checked baggage and cost me $40 to check it. It was also out of my hands and I know it was treated rough on its journey as the Kirigami bed frame bent on the way home. No other machine with a 180 cubed build volume will transport as easily as this in my experience. This form factor is in a class all its own.

Mandic Labs is not responsible for injuries sustained while watching our content… 🤣🤣

@@MandicLabs 10/10

Looked good from my view in Australia

^^^ You guys restore my faith in humanity. Thank you for that. ^^^

Touch grass

@@Baob857 no u

Yea it is really a “I’m happy this exists” sort of product for many. I can see use cases for myself but not an every day use machine. I really want to build one just for the fun of it though.

PV3 prints like any other modern well build and tuned printer.

I'm sure it's similar (and i already bought it) lol BUT this was a tease and I wanna see :)

Much appreciated

The cooling issue is primarily a problem with profile tuning, we're still dialing that in. We are also experimenting with a cooling duct redesign. So rest assured this is something we are aware of and are working on even now. As for units without the pelican case, it's going to take a while, probably going to be a few batches out before we start selling kits with select parts not included.

We looked it up while filming, this is Indium Tin Oxide coated glass. It’s used to create touch screens on some stuff. This just uses it as a resistor and heats with it. I’d imagine the indium you worked with was one of the base materials in the glass coating process? Over my head to say the least.

@@MandicLabs Correct, mine was on 6m mylar and had a phosphor adative so when a charge was applied it glowed. It was later bonded to windshields and the like. We also did a titanium variant at the time. Clearly a different variety but the resistive properties when adding a voltage on the surface was similar. I had zone optics setup so I could monitor the opacity and it was processed in a vacuum chamber the size of a cement truck. Definitely one of my more enjoyable past jobs.

@@HReality I love the Timex Indiglo, so cool your worked on it. Do you think this could be replicated individually as a hobbyist project? Would love to make something similar. I don't have lots of chemical processing equipment but am very technical.

@@Jdog1681 Well, when we did it we were applying 10k volts through a cathode while in a vacuum and injecting argon.. the cathode literally threw particles off the cathose up @4 inches and bonded to the mylar spooling over it. If it could be done as a hobbyist scale I cant imagine how. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sputter_deposition

Indium tin oxide is the same material used to create the almost invisible conductive traces on LCD displays (akin to copper traces on a PCB and designed pretty much identically) as well as the digitiser on capacitive touch screens.

We have ideas for that 😉 stay tuned

I actually cut out where I talked about just that in this video while I was trying to make it all flow better. So look out for that possibility down the road. 👍🏻👍🏻

@@MandicLabs heck, since it’s currently DC powered, I could picture hooking a power tool battery up to this printer to make it truly mobile, and be able to print on the go, or out in the wild. Wireless for the win. Not sure how long it would last though.

​​@@RockieOnlyI run a Bambu labs mini A1 in my van using 200w solar and 200ah LiFe 12v, through a 1000w pure sine wave inverter. I print all day in the sunshine and can go til about 3 a.m. while simultaneously running my 12v refrigerator (intermittently 45w) comfortably and probably all night but I don't want to push it. Bed heat off means the printer doesn't use much power, and the mini A1 is so fast I have no issues maxing out the 7x7x7 build volume

It definitely would not take a lot to modify it to swap out the power supply to one that accepts USB PD.

It's actually not that difficult, while it's all very compact, it's easy to get to what you need to.

You got it, ha. Also deflecting the heat / airflow from the heatsink from blowing onto the part and unintentionally cooling it I'd imagine is a partial factor. And I don't own this one, it is Nomad's BETA unit. I will be building one soon-ish hopefully.

The LDO kit is designed to be easy to build, and is very approachable. I think the final price difference is $100 between the two, with the LDO kit costing slightly more, but all the custom components help make the whole thing much simpler.

I’ll hopefully be streaming building one on here at some point. Not set in stone yet, but watch out for that when (if) I get the chance.

Yep! You are correct. We mount idlers to the bottom of the X rail by using standoffs as nuts on the top, and the idler screwing in from the bottom. This acts as a rail stop, preventing the carriage from falling off, and allowing for Sensorless homing with its resistance.

@@nomadsgalaxy Very clever, thanks for the explanation and nice work!

All credit to Nomad for coming up with the intro / outro skits. Such a fun idea and addition.

Who let this guy in here? 😅😹

The goal was portability, we just so happen to print upside down lol We are working on improving our cooling performance.

Printing upside down is a function of the compact nature / foldability. To have a "regular" toolhead would require far more rigidity & complexity in the design. This design allows the printhead to always be in the position it will be, even when the Z axis is folded down. That provides a much more compact (lower center of gravity too) design that doesn't require major reinforcement that would balloon its size & weight. It is meant to be a portable printer. Any additional parts & construction takes away from that so they have to be very mindful of where design elements are at all times.

oh it's 800+ euros.. Yup, I'll wait for a gig that requires such a machine xD

Yeah, it's no secret that the pill is difficult to swallow on this one. But we have a lot of custom components, and we put in a ton of R&D to fix many of the issues with the original V3 design. We're very proud of what we accomplished. We aimed for the price of a V0 kit, and I'm glad we achieved that. It's certainly not for everyone, but considering the V0 was known as the "portable" 3D printer (requiring it's own massive checked bag), we're glad that we were able to make this a reality for those looking for portability.

This channel is going to focus more on the nerdy tech side of printing while the main channel moves more toward using printing in bigger "maker" projects. I'm worried that if I do a fun maker project followed by a technical deep dive on a printer that the general audience who doesn't care so much about the tech itself will be turned off. So this channel is going to take up the Tech end of things while the other channel just applies Printing as a Tool. So when I get to building a Positron it will be here. Also I'm streaming builds now on here, so either way it would be here.

@@MandicLabs Looks like I need to subscribe to the second channel then. The algorithm knew to recommend me the video so hopefully the tech nerds will be guided to your second channel so making content for it is worth it for you. Always love your content, and those little vegan twist are awesome. That almond juice bit gave me a great giggle. Keep up the awesome work!

@@nomadsgalaxy There's no other printer that compares whatsoever. So it's both the cheapest, and the most expensive in it its category xD But honestly if I wasn't broke or was making money off rapid prototyping it'd get one in a heartbeat. Pricing seems fair considering the amount of custom parts, pcb dev etc.. It's an awesome machine and really hope it will find success. Been following it's progress since the initial video on youtube. It's amazing to finally see it available as easily!

No - but its pelican like, it's very rugged and solid.

Yea that was a slip up in the “Kleenex” way. It’s a pelican like case.

Eh, it integrates with a single USB-C connection and saves a lot of trouble on the footprint when stored. I’ve run a few machines with remote pi/display setups. The way this one is configured is better than most imo. The IR sensor is definitely a weak point and I look forward to improvements on that.

The goal was to make this kit similarly priced to a Voron V0, which is $650 (and only has a bed volume of 120mm³ vs 175mm³) The truth of the matter is that there was a lot of R&D put into this printer, our teams worked very hard with LDO to make it possible. Costs need to be recuperated. If you don't have a purpose for a portable printer, then don't buy a portable printer lol, it's only novelty if you don't have a purpose for it.

@@nomadsgalaxy - whatever you say there money bag genius. A printer that prints upside down is a novelty…for $699, when you could get say an A1 mini for $249.

​@@dingdongdaddy589 And getting an A1 mini for that price is absolutely a reasonable decision, not arguing on that. I have an A1 myself because of how affordable of a printer it is. The idea of the Positron is not that it prints upside down, it's that it's portable. It just so happens to print upside down as a result of our portability efforts. By no means do i believe this printer is for everyone, as mentioned before, it's for those who want portability. No matter how you look at it, even an Ender 3 or a Bambu A1 Mini isn't a printer you can easily bring with you on a plane or onto a train.

And the project began a couple years ago. The machine is NOT for everyone by a long shot, but for those who can justify it, its a fun idea. If nothing else it is an interesting tech demo that some folks can use to help push printing forward. The Bambu A1 Mini wouldn't exist if it weren't for the development and testing of machines that came before it. It wouldn't exist at the price point it does if it weren't for Bambu selling $1500 X1s for years ahead of the A1 Mini and creating a full production process that brings the economy of scale into line with their price point. A small independent OPEN SOURCE printer project will never be able to match a multi-million (possibly billion) dollar Chinese manufacturing company. That's just life.

Consider this: a voron 0 kit will set you back a similar price if not more and will have only 120^3 print volume and arguably a printer at that volume and price IS a novelty as you’re very limited to what can be printed in it, I have one and I know. For people who travel and need to prototype on the field, granted not that many, this is going to be a tool, for the rest of us it could just be a very cool project to work on, just like the v0, even if not the most practical. But then, consider the potential here, how a printer with p.v. similar to a prusa mini or an a1 mini can now fit in the spool box of that printer. If I had to draw a non printing parallel, I’d suggest considering how mobile phones used to be larger than even wireless ones at the time, then they got small, moved to smartphones and now we have phones that are all screen, barely any bezel. We both reduced the foot print of the device and maximised its interface. Consider this the flip phone of the printers. If anything this printer will be a step in that direction, at the very least. Furthermore, if this was to be a commercially available product like an Ender, the logistical cost from the shipped kits’ volume, along with the per unit carbon footprint, can further reduce the price and make it more environmentally friendly. If you’re still bothered by the price, note that ldo ships high quality components, not necessarily the most cost effective ones. It’s be safe to assume an open source project like this will be adopted by other companies offering kits at lower prices, with respective quality. Lastly, it’s a fresh platform for the community to innovate on. There is great potential here, even if it’s a niche product now, but so where desktop 3d printers a decade ago before prusa gave us the i3 design. Then creality lowered the entry barrier to FDM with the ender 3 and their massive production line benefiting from its scale. tl;dr: It’s not for everyone, but it’s here for everyone to benefit from.

Maybe. Original PV3 has magnetic connector. If something goes wrong, bed disconnects and kipper stops automatically. I have this issue two times when my nylon print unsticks…

@@sovahc so, this detects spaghetti? Or adhesion issues? Or crashes? Seems to be a CR10 flipped over.

@@ogpennywise there's no automatic detection, the previous detection method was simply sensing for a bed disconnect, which would trigger a firmware shut down. This is technically still a thing, but it isn't really a feature per say. Print failures are... 'fun' lol

@@ogpennywise I have no spaghetti issue. Every time my bed pulls up and print stops. No damage happen. I'm most worried about the synchromesh, but it's always fine. If it gets damaged, I'll just switch to a belt, I have the belt.

Might want to do some research there bud; Kralyn is part of The Positron 3D Team. Credit is being given to Positron 3D, who (with Kralyn) is maintaining the project as a whole. Credit is being given, but it would be unfair to just say Kralyn designed it at this point, as many members helped make the V3.2 with LDO.

As Nomad noted, since the originator (Kralyn) is part of the Positron Project (The machine & group represented here) | didn't really feel a need to do a break down on the origins. That stuff gets sticky with crediting people because I never know who based their work on who and what people are going to get upset when I credit XYZ etc etc. It is a slippery slope that I try to avoid and just link to the project on hand so that folks can still find the right people. I'll add Kralyn's github but the repository points to the LDO / Positron sites already linked.

@@MandicLabs okay then I apologies

I assure you, you would not want Synchromesh cables to be used in production. They were a nightmare. Also the decision to move to belts was one done by Positron, not LDO.

Belts has slightly lower aliasing. I want 1 mm pith belt on my pv3

Seems to have caught your attention… Good thing I got over the idea of trying to “be cool” a long time ago and decided to pursue happiness. Maybe someday you’ll find some of that.