Inside the World of Longsword Fighting | The New York Times 

I didn't realize you were doing this full-time! Livin' the life!

Sword Carolina i want to start this sport because of game of thrones 😄

That wouldn't work in a real sword fight

lol but game of thrones fighting is so trash

@@semperludens9241 what wouldn't work in a real sword fight

I think everyone would enjoy it. but it needs to be in more countries for it to even be qualified as an Olympic sport

would be siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick

well, asians already have a martial arts thing going on.

well, there is that sparing using rapier in the Olympic for quite awhile. The Asian have Wushu in many regional competion but its more like performace rather than actual sparing.

Start supporting us.

😏

How that's sport is called? Idk

Sport or no sport, swordfighting does not make you a knight. The people doing HEMA do it as a hobby and as part of historical research. They don't do it to brag or spread clichés and bullshido.

@@n3xt_w4v3 what?

@@ZemplinTemplar don’t take things that seriously. Fighting like people (knights included) used to historically was probably the main drive for most people interested in this to get started I know it would be for me

It doesn't need to be. Our school has made our tournament and as of now we held ours for the second time and is now part of LongPoint Historical League. It's a lot less codified than you think. University clubs are almost no different from any other non university clubs.

Some schools have this as a sport.

hmmmm weapons and schools. Yes this mixes well from a PR standpoint

@@PEZ1514 there are some high schools that still do olympic fencing as a PE course some even do archery. This shouldn't be a problem. Make it a PE elective like weight lifting.

@Daniel Lin also it's still risky even with protective gears on

One argument that I've heard from a lot of people in the community is that it would lose most of what makes it a martial art in the process, just like sport fencing. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that is an argument. :-)

Even though it dates to the late 1300s longsword in its modern form is actually a fairly new art. It is being reconstructed from historical documents. Give us time. ['!']

It's not organized enough. Every tournament has different rules and the rules are still evolving constantly. There are no HEMA professionals and only the Europeans have high quality clubs. The Olympic committee would require standardized rules and a single peak body for HEMA, which doesn't exist, plus conformance with all their byzantine rules and procedures. Plus some other sports would have to be dumped to include it. It will eventually happen but not without some acrimony and a lot of development of the sport.

Give it time, it will enter the Olympics after it gains significant popularity, a more understood and massive revival, and a standardized code of laws.

Oh god please no. Look at what the sportification of modern fencing, karate, and taekwondo did in neutering those arts. I would hate for HEMA to be minmaxed for points the way that modern fencing and other Olympic "martial arts" are

+Jude Mahoney I want to, or if not kendo, but there isnt anywhere where I live ;-;

+Rufus Barnes Kendo is not realistic or practical sword fighting at all, its a extremly self limitating sport and also not fun to do in my opinion. There is a simple way to start full contact fighting. You need 4things, a friend/friends, swords, protection goggles, and a nice place to train. We trained a long time nearly full contact with Bokken, which is pretty much suicide, broken bones, stood out eyes etc. Now we builded padded swords and they are awesome! We can train where and whenever we want, you need no huge and expensiv gear and dont sweat in it, the only protection you need are goggles because of fast thrusts to the head, they didnt do to much damage but it hurts if it hits your eye. And it makes way more fun to train barfooth so grass(a park or so) is nice! Our neigbors in the holydays was interested as they seen me fighting with theyr son. The father never done something like this and works in a bureau, but in 2-3 days he become insanly good in full contact! From other neighbors the woman does sword training since over 2years but just form, she didnt wanted to try a figth against him, she feared to loose haha XD! You just need bamboo (*EDIT: we changed to carbon fiber tubes! much better) , than you put pipe isolating foam aroud it and wrap it cleanly with ducktape, you can bang it against your head and it doesnt hurt. The bamboo should be 10cm shorter because you want a save point, good sices are 80-90cm blade and 42cm grip, sounds huge but range and leverage are an verry noticeble difference in combat. Our longest swords are 100-110cm blade and 51cm handle (*EDIT: now Bidenhänder with 130cm blade and 70cm handle + 60cm crossquard, side parry rings and parry lugs), they are extremly effective even against spears/swordlances! sry that the text become so long, i just want to inspire people to start with this great martial art/sport ^_^ greetings

+J.Strauch \Liandri/ Please explain how kendo is less realistic or practical than this?

FiveXP its a spiritual sport, its to train the mind, and in competitiv fight you have to get points with extremly senceless hit zones and a particular stance and particular angled hits, normal extrem highly efficient sword techniques wouldnt count in kendo, you have a unbelievable limitadet variety of techniques. I trained 8Years Kenjutsu (and some Sojutsu), now qoing in Longsword and Bidenhänder. Since a long time we train Full contact. I know some kendo schools here and i often was there, and spoke with the trainers and masters, sadly i had to learn it isnt an interesting efficient martial art at all, i was really dissapointed. When we train the attack not have do be with weard stance, and special angle hit etc etc to get a counting hit. Our attacks have to be deadly or disabling, just real world efficient. Two other short examples, when the enemys legs are extremly open and you can savely attack them gues what we "magicaly" do.. hit the legs.. something you never would do in kendo and something you arent trained at all to block. When we come to close and our blades are at each other.. gues what we "magicaly" do.. grap the opponents handle.. and decapitate or stab him, you have a under 10% chance to survive when someone use this technique on you. A kendo student wouldt ever come fast enough to this idea because he just never trained or think about it and die. Its just how it is. And ofcourse martial arts train how to fight against armored opponents.

+J.Strauch \Liandri/ You are seriously misinformed. Kendo is the exact opposite of senseless. Kendo is the pursuit of the perfect strike or attack. It emphasizes efficiency from the targets to the stances. Think about what you are saying. Attacking the legs? That's a bad idea. Same reason people don't punch the legs. Attacking the legs opens up your head. Now which is the more deadly target. Grabbing the handle? Explain this technique because two hands on a sword is stronger than one.

This is not HEMA

Yomsu Swaggins Um this very much is part of HEMA. Its the competitive side of HEMA. They did much the same during the era of the Longsword, in similar ways.

Yomsu Swaggins Yes it is.

What age to have to be to take lessons on how to do longsword fighting.

Alma Membreno It all depends on the instructor. I won't teach anyone younger than 16 due to insurance, but some will teach younger.

+Crumbling Cube Entertainment I dunno... ... fuk college sounds like a pretty cool place.

I second this motion. The Olympics was originally set up so people could participate while showing their skills used in combat. Everything was battle oriented in one shape or form so I think this would do nicely.

It is time HEMA was made as a mainstream sport. In the Olympics it would be a fresh change from Ping Pong and Dressage.

+AKLd95 i.33 is sword and buckler and is one of the most popular fighting styles in hema.

+A Berserker That's not even remotely true

You better not be referring to the modern Olympic Games. The ancient Greeks would think differently.

I know it's an old comment, but German longsword (shown in the video) does have cuts and thrusts, and uses a two-handed sword. You might really enjoy it!

Same. I remember initially being excited about fencing, but then I realized how boring it was when I saw it at the Olympics. This is more up my ally.

Hahahaha

+Jontman42 hahha good catch

+Jontman42 beat me too it hahha

I thought I killed him

Did the onion knight save you?

elmohead there should be a mixed one so you can have different styles against each other

The problem is nobody can agree on a rules set. Even within HEMA. And any set of rules you impose changes the way the fight is done. So you can try to match longsword vs. katana but do you use steel simulators, bamboo, hardwood, nylon? Do you permit full force attacks? Wrestling? Thrusting attacks? How is it scored, and by whom? Plus, many of us don't *want* a standard set of equipment or rules, because then it becomes yet another sport. Just like MMA a set of weapons would come to dominate based on the protocols and scoring. Outlaw thrusting and the longsword become much less useful for example.

elmohead Imagine a general swordfighting competition, where every country brings their national blade! And the sword fighters have to know how to defend against different types of sword fighters. That would be incredible!

It's the swords themselves but the teaching its pretty much German, Italian, Spanish and that is about it for the long swords

Forget "the West". Focus on the katana. Because the katana-wielding Samurai were the greatest, most skilled and the most disciplined warriors and the katana was the most superior weapon of all time maybe up to the invention of the nuclear bomb. Some say that the Americans managed to nuke Hiroshima and Nagasaki only because there were none of the katana wielding Samurais in those cities who could have easily cut those bombs in half and repel the attack.

Aye, the human warrior caste seems ubiquitous across the world.

This is not a revival of knight culture. This is a revival of swordfighting techniques. Unless someone knights you (and who would ?) you are not a knight. Only munchkins pretend that because they learn HEMA, they're suddenly knights. They're not. Nevertheless, HEMA is a nice historical hobby.

@@ZemplinTemplar it is about the way with the sword. its dedication - disciplin and also - if tought correctly with some historic background. swordplay is lost tradition. the sport revives that. its not about beeing knight or pretending to be on - that was not my point. its about learning old techniques and reviving a sense of warrior culture in learning it. a form of respect and knowing about that these things you learn getting into HEMA reach so many years into the past and were the matter of life or death. Of course you can just learn how to fence. But imho those people i met who took the sport to the next level had some deeper meaning to it

Cuz it's a sport

Because we're broke.

Do it.

This isn't kendo. It doesn't focus of the katana, it focuses on the longsword. In fact, many longsword enthusiasts openly have distaste towards the katana, as from a technical dueling viewpoint it is seen as inferior to a longsword design, which I agree on. Anyway, wasn't highlander with katanas not long swords?

+Sam Williams What bizarro version of highlander did you see that used Katanas.

Sam Williams Katanas are much thinner and lighter which means they can strike quicker. It isnt inferior to the longsword. It may not weigh as much which in turn doesnt provide the same type of defense when blocking a blow, but katanas are made more for offensive rather than your typical balanced longsword.

Edward Hong What? They are not thin. They had a soft metal core and a hard metal edge. Its pretty wide and thick. But yeah, it makes sense for it to be focused on offence, since the guard is terrible.

Edward Hong Actually, katanas are thick bladed and weigh just as much as a longsword (katanas are generally 2-3lbs while longswords are generally 2.5-3.5lbs) despite being, generally speaking, about ten inches shorter. For their size katanas are quite heavy, and as there is no pommel or substantial guard to balance out this weight, they also tend to be blade heavy making them comparatively unwieldily. Katanas are a great weapon, but not for the reasons people tend to cite.

Fighting in HEMA is also called "sparring" :p

It's not exactly how they fought in longsword duels back in the day - it's a sport after all and there must be safety rules. Look at the old manuals - they teach a complete martial art that can get downright nasty: how to grapple, kick your opponent in the knee or groin, punch, armlocks, wrestle them to the ground or pick them up, or use tricks like throw your sword at your opponent's face and then tackle him.

Nope it's it real historical fencing

There are plenty so enjoy!

fakename105 I'm not gonna even type out how dumb that idea is

+fakename105 There are some clubs that started in schools. The Phoenix Society has a long history of teaching in school, for example.

+Goddrew Wiggins I'm not even going to type how dumb you are.

+fakename105 One more thing to add: They have Kendo and Judo in schools in Japan. I don't see why we can't have HEMA here or anywhere else. Longsword fencing is way safer than Judo or wrestling too.

culiet mortalis Alright. So lets see this: implement the study of European sword fighting in school across america. Tens of millions down the drain. Convince parents, teachers, administrators, legislators, etc tht its a good idea. Bring in instructors. Develop a curriculum. All in the name of what? History? History class will do. Fighting? American schools discourage fighting except for wrestling. What's the point? Why not just teach a japanese/chinese martial art that would be more readily accepted and already has a place in American culture?

You can sword fish longpoint was on espn most of tithe hema members don’t like tournaments

yeah. I would want the games scoring to be different though. It would not be fun to watch if they stopped at every point scored. It needs to be less protective equipment also, because that would make it more realistic, because nobody would want to get hit. Opponents would feel each other out. They wouldn't lung themselves at the opponent with no regard. It would be with blunted weapons, and some hand protection and maybe a mask for the face, but I think that should be it. It would be sick.

Johan Dale Because Western liberals have made it unfashionable to be proud of your own history and cultural and martial heritage, unless you're from somewhere other than Europe/North America.

Randall Flagg "Unfashionable"... just sad.

Michel Dai That's also very true, I'm saying the reason why nobody cared to revive the western martial arts was because of political correctness and 'foreign-fetishism'. That might not be true either though.

doubt it lol

Bathrobe Warrior I really want to get into HEMA, i'm doing Kendo and i find the Kenjutsu part most interesting, wish we were doing lessons exclusive for this. Very interested in old European Arts, it should be very expensive though...

You don't say... I doubt any sort of actual historical swordfighting would be a "pacifist art". Of course it's a martial art, like any other set of skills used in a particular historical region for self-defence, practice sparring or combat fighting. Why wouldn't it be ?

+Hector Perez Do it. There are plenty of HEMA schools all over the world.

gromann Its amazing isn't it? Longpoint in 2012 was about 75 people total, 40 or so fighters. In 2015 it was almost 300 people with just about 150 fighters in Steel Longsword alone...

Evil Merlin I'd love to get into it but even with all the local groups I' work whenever they're in session lol I'm just happy a martial art that isn't karate/kung fu/krav is getting popularity and just looks badass.

+gromann I hear you for sure! I'm lucky I can run/teach one class a week with my work schedule. Most of my students want 2-3 classes a week!

+Evil Merlin do you teach sword fighting with katanas or only the European sword types?

+BOB BOB, you probably can! There are clubs everywhere now.

Go to facebook group 'HEMA International Discussion' and ask if there's a club near you. There may be something there already. If not-you can try starting one yourself,many people doing this today started in such a way.^^

Hey Espn

If I was a multi millionaire I'd drop 2 mills.

They just need MONEY

Where do you live?

Yeah some modern swords can be thousands of dollars and not even come with a sheath. The brand Albion for example, their sharp swords range from $800-$4000 the average being around $1,350 with no sheath. Also a rifle case is amazingly less conspicuous than carrying around a sheathed sword.

Most swords will cost you 400 - to about 800 dollars these are the steel practice sword which are used in hema outside of cutting tournament

It depends on someone's skill, evenly skilled opponents you'll see can have quite long rallies. However often one opponent is better than the other and games always stop after a small hit, so in a sense it's a lot like game of thrones since good sword fighters in the show quickly kill their enemies and two good sword fighters last a lot longer

+Jim Steglitz The only time sword fights lasted longer were usually between two masters or experts. Think of it more like the hero just murdering people left and right on the battlefield scene, they're like mini battles.

+Jim Steglitz I'm sure they'd be more defensive if their lives were on the line :p

+Jim Steglitz well, these people (from what i can tell) are being stopped at the first hit and then reset. obviously that wouldn't happen in a real fight, so even if someone got a cut on their thigh or lower ribcage, the fight would continue. that being said: fights are still rather short because people aren't machines, but they were longer than what you see here.

+Jim Steglitz IN a real sword fight (on a battlefield or even possibly a duel) they would probably be wearing armor, most likely plate, you can't simply cut through a steal plate, so fights would most likely happen until u could get the blade in a place with no armor, such as the neck or armpit.

***** yes.

***** They'd get better, it's early days. Maybe one day it'll be an extention to MMA.

Kombaiyashii, Sword Class NYC offers both Kendo and Longsword! We cross-train and have open classes every week, so we certainly do have kendo vs. longsword matches. :)

***** one Kendo is a SPORT. Ask someone who does Kenjutsu what they think of Kendo. Two Kendo is very movement and target limited. Three kendo is using a shinai, not a feder. Seriously learn something about what you post about. HEMA is just as much of a martial art as Kenjutsu. Kendo is NOT kenjutsu.

***** You're an idiot.

Interesting and cool, thanks for sharing.

scientifically, I am curious about that statement.

David Achilleus I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

Fencing is swordfighting. Also, there are many problems with the sword science being applied here. So is it cool? Maybe for somebody who knows nothing about fencing or swordplay. Is it cool for anybody who does? Not really.

David Achilleus, a lot of people aren't aware that fencing has a much broader application than simply modern sport fencing. For someone who's never seen longsword fencing before, the fighting at Longpoint can be pretty cool indeed. And compared to a lot of things, it really is cool. And that's ok.

David Achilleus fair enough, I make no statements as to how practical or historically accurate this is...I just said it looks cool from a spectator perspective. I also implied that fencing is freaking boring to watch. I stand by both statements lol. However, I do also want to say that fencing is not the end all be all of swordfighting history (as you seem to be implying). It represents a pretty narrow time period when armor was made impractical by firearms and the like, and so heavy blades became impractical when compared to light blades, since speed overshadowed the need for penetrating power. On top of these differences, modern fencing is a SPORT. Things like safety concerns and the need for a scoring system make it different even from the time period it attempts to emulate. so when fencers comment on movie clips or historical exhibitions about sword fighting based on even earlier time periods and start crying about fencing this and fencing that, I just don't get it. Sure there are plenty of things wrong with the portrayal of swordfighting in both the entertainment industry and actual attempts to simulate them, but unless they are about fencing, fencers really shouldn't have anything to say about it. Sorry about the rant, but I specifically tried to word my original comment to avoid any comparison between this and fencing other than Spectator appeal...and I'm a little annoyed that you rendered my effort ineffective.

Most of us have real swords

Swords won't be a practical weapon for a zombie apocalypse. The blade would get easily damaged since zombies are generally tougher to slice We would've used greatswords, warhammers, axes, or a wide variety of polearms

That is not really the point xD

Like I care about it if I get the point or not.

Lena Pedersen We didn't have anyone from Norway at our event that year...

Lena Pedersen, Bring a Norwegian to Longpoint next year and I bet they'll fix it for you.

Lena Pedersen Uff da!

Find a club near you and give it a go. :)

there is only one hema club in that country and it's in istanbul. :(

Goo Gle In Turkey? Nooo, there are definitely more. Try to contact that club in Istambul via phone and ask them about the other clubs. Clubs generally know each other in a country.

That's awesome, thanks! I'll add this to my expensive hobby list XD

@@oliviastock4780 I'd really like to try this once corona is over. Where would I go to start?

Yes. Just let your grit and determination take you forward. It's all about your skill, though size gives an advantage in it, it is not the end all be all. Further longsword isn't the only thing, sword and buckler, messer, spear, and number of semi-modern styles like infantry sabre, daggers, wrestling with integrated boxing.

@@neuro-3778 look up the HEMA group finder. I'd link it but i don't think it is nearby.

It's still a thing. Well, events are not a thing at the moment, but I hope they will be back soon.

Definitely still a thing, the community is likely a decent bit larger than it was in 2014. Have a look at the HEMA United facebook page/group or the HEMA Alliance (website) club finder, odds are there might be a club near you. Depending on where you are though even if there are local clubs, they might not be practicing due to covid, but maybe not, here in Australia it seems most HEMA clubs are back up and running. Good luck!

Try to find a local club of good quality, visit to see if it catches your interest, potentially join. They'll loan you a practice weapon and protective gear if you can't afford them. It's an inclusive hobby, just find a well-reviewed club. Good luck.

There absolutely is. The umbrella term for the clubs is usually "HEMA" and there are quite a few of them. Longsword is the most popular discipline

@@SonarWavePulse thanks! I will go do some online exploring for HEMA info.

All of those things are allowed in this competition.

Hulk there apparently hasn't met Lopez.

Ben Michels No, I'm rather sure that intentionally breaking an arm wasn't allowed. =) But I see what you mean.

They're not going to brutally slaughter each other in a hotel ballroom.

gurkfisk89 You see what he means? Cause I sure as hell don't. Unless he was being sarcastic.

Owen Williams Technically, it somewhat does with the European-American side (as opposed to the actual continent's natives). As the name suggests, European-Americans were originally descended from Europe, where HEMA originated in.

Also there were several European clubs and some of them were very old

Hema alliance club finder will point you in the right place

As Cullen said, try to find a local club of good quality, visit to see if it catches your interest, potentially join. They'll loan you a practice weapon and protective gear if you can't afford them. It's an inclusive hobby, just find a well-reviewed club. Good luck, Firefly.

Spears get used more on the battlefield, but swords were still used more as side arms and for personal self-defense, since you can wear them at your hip, whereas you carrying a spear around with you all day is a huge pain in the ass. But yeah, spears are badass, and damn hard to fight against if all you have is a sword.

Sure, if you're in a full frontal warfare using the phalanx and meeting your death. But for a competition sword fighting looks cooler

Armac Well, HEMA isn't really about looking cool (though it's nice added perk). HEMA is about trying to reconstruct European fighting techniques. If all of the battle manuals that we've recovered were on spear, we would be fighting with spears. As it is, most of them are on longsword. However, we also have recovered manuals on rapier, dagger, sword/buckler, staff, even some halberd.

Graidon Mabson They're trying to revive it so it could be seen as a sport much like fencing. I'm guessing the end goal would be to have it televised for people to watch. Sword fights in movies are common place and familiar, so people would be more likely to watch, which is why I think it's done to look cool. It'd be interested to see an MMA type style with this where people all use different weapons against each other

We also often do spear, and in fact, longsword techniques are meant to be able to translate pretty directly to spear. By studying the longsword, you're also learning a system that applies to a variety of weapons.

If you mean that 'They use swords to hit each other', yea, I guess it's basically kendo. No, wait, Kendo is way more limited. Kendo only allows for a few strikes / targets, doesn't allow grapping, and is way more ritualized.

I used to be a fencer (sabre) and am now a HEMA practitioner, and it is indeed interesting xD. It is actually much more like kenjutsu than kendo, as kendo is a simplified sport rather than a martial art. Lots of skills are mutually applicable, but HEMA and Kenjutsu are still using all of the techniques invented by ancient masters for the purposes of actual combat. If there's a group in your area, I suggest you check it out!

David Wu : The actual name for the German art they are practicing is Zornhaw

***** Not to be contrarian, but "Zornhau" actually just means "Wrath Stroke," and is one of the five basic "mastercuts" as detailed in the german system. It is literally just a downward diagonal long edge blow along either line one or two, generally with a step and rotation of the hips. The Italian equivalent as per Fiore's system would be a "Mandritto Fendente." There is no "actual name" for the system. :-) Here's a good article incase you're curious: www.thearma.org/essays/mastercuts.html#.VBjZ7hZrzro

***** I've heard Zornhaw only used to describe the overhead blow of the 'Wrath-Strike'. Perhaps there maybe a modern school or study-group named Zornhaw somewhere, but most German style practitioners refer to the art as 'Kunst des Fechtens' or 'Ringen am Schwert' (Wrestling at the Sword). Also, they didn't get mentioned but there were a few Italian School fighters present at the event.

+John Matthew Crane Ever heard of Fechtschule tradition? It was a tournament where fighters were gathering in one place and fight with themselfs (winner chooses next opponent) and after the competitive part ends all fighters put their swords at the foots of person who fought the best in their opinion. Each sword = 1 point. About "sportified version" - in HEMA competitions you are forbidden only from hitting with crossguard (hitting with pommel just doesn't count). The rest, all techniques are accepted. Even hits like Zornhau, which is the most powerful hit of all (Zornhau = wrath hit).

+John Matthew Crane As I understand it, the earlier incarnations of the Liechtenauer tradition were rooted in combat and judicial duels. I.33 likely was as well. But by the 16th century longsword had arguably become more of a gentleman's weapon in central Europe and Italy, and the interpretations from this period don't seem to have been quite as focused on life-or-damnation struggles. You see the emergence of competitive schools of sword fighting. The real problem with the modern HEMA tournaments is that they have introduced so much modern armor that they've turned blossfetchen into a new kind of plastic harness fetchen. Fear is no longer a factor, and bold explosive moves tend to dominate. The lack of sharp blades also causes winden to be overlooked or simply ignored. That said, there is still much to learn and full speed sparring is one important way to explore the old arts. It is not the only way. If we have a mix of approaches from tournaments to true blossfetchen slow play with sharps and no protection, we can better flesh out what sword fighting actually was. Everything has its advantages and disadvantages.

+Lordzio Yes, but even in sparring, they had no masks, no gauntlets and only a padded coat for protection. The penalty for screwing up was real pain and blood. That changes the way people fight, and discourages "gaming" for points. You won't be tempted to make a move knowing you have a 25% chance or so of getting nailed when getting nailed is really getting nailed. The fighters concentrate more on controlling the opponent's blade and stay "sticky" in the bind to ensure they won't be hit after making their point. Try it!

+FraggingBard Or unless you have some extra sparring partners you've grown tired of. It's why I get leery when my instructor leads me out into remote wooded areas with suspicious freshly dug holes nearby.

+John Matthew Crane Exactly what I think. Theese semi-contacts are just not really it.