I'm so glad I found this video before installing my Victron Orion TR 12-12 30 DC-DC charger. I followed your lead and used a 1/4" aluminum plate as a mounting surface for the Orion. In addition, I purchased 1/2" Nylon spacers that I used to hold the aluminum plate off of the HDPE mounting surface to provide additional air flow around the entire setup. It was super easy to wire up and program! The unit does heat up a bit, but the extra heat sink of the aluminum and the offset spacers really help to control the heat. I would not want to mount these directly to wood!! Thanks again for your videos and for showing the best way to mount these DC-DC chargers. Well Done!
Thanks for the feedback! We’ve had ours for a long time now and it works perfectly! I love having the extra power go into the LiFePo4 bank. Would you believe someone in the comments actually said the aluminum plate could be harmful by restricting the airflow!! 🤷♂️ I guess there’s one in every crowd. Lol. So happy you found my video helpful. Cheers, Corey
Just found your channel this evening and have been binge watching. Made it this far. I appreciate all the in-depth information you give in your videos. My only suggestion, and this is just my personal opinion, is less camera movement. It can be a bit hard to watch with all that movement. Keep up the good work!
Hi Jason! Thank you. We are now using a stabilization program. When you get closer to present day, they should be better. Thanks for dropping a note! Hope you stick around!! Corey
Couple comments: Like you, I am in the process of planning a lithium battery bank installation. On a boat, I believe that by ABYC standards state that you should have a common ground; which implies that you should not be using the ISOLATED version of the Victron Orion DC-DC converter - the NON ISOLATED version has a common GROUND; the POSITIVE IN and OUT are ISOLATED as you would expect. The use of YELLOW wire, by ABYC standards is for DC GROUND - I see you have added RED heat shrink to the end of the cables( which is laudible), but the yellow wire is not a good plan long term; you will know what it is, but a technician or future owner will not.... I would also suggest as you are installing to get a DYMO GUN and mark what each cable is used for .... Again later on, when you are trouble shooting, you will be glad you took the time. I would also make a wiring diagram and anotate your installation. I did not see a shunt installed on the negative circuit for your starting batteries; it would be good to know what the engines are drawing overtime - you will be able to see starting current and know if something is not performing right. I did not see where you installed the VICTRON Smart Shunt on the Lithium bank?
Hi Daryl, Yes, common ground and bonding… I used the isolated Orion because I have AGM starter batteries for the engines. I dove deep in the forums and the isolated was recommended. Both engines are independent circuits with the exception of the Orions. The Orions serve as my shunts. The videos you have seen highlight the early phases of my install and there have been modifications and other features added. My advice to you is to go Victron. We have implemented their system including the Cerbo gx and display screen and it is well worth it! We have a few people in our patreon group who are building LiFePo4 batteries for their boats and there is always more information to share. As I write this, we are about 10 miles off shore headed to west palm beach FLorida and we will be heading to the Bahamas asap. Cheers and safe travels! Corey
The extra heatsink material is smart, so those dc-dc chargers will last longer. You made the right choice for the 30 amp models too. Two things that might help you in the future, gray pvc pipe is for electrical items and white is for water applications. Gray is chemically somewhat different to resist electrical service issues that come up. White will likely work just fine though, gray is schedule 80 and white is schedule 40. Also one thing you don't want to do again is switch your battery selector switch to combine while your engine is running. This can burn out your alternator(s). Just the nanosecond between the electrical contacts changing positions can cause the alternator to go into a state where it has no load and the rectifier diodes will fry. Put a label there telling people to not change those positions while any engine is running. Most boats have them. I am looking forward to your energy usage statistics. If you have a gaming PC though likely you will start eating a god bit of energy. Since you have so much battery capacity you are in pretty good shape for a while of normal operations. A lot of boats have somewhere around 200 ah and do lights, refrigeration, on solar daily of around 300ish watts. 500 watts is better for at least most monohulls. I have a Catalina 30 so my solar is pretty sparse at less than 300 watts. I make up the difference with a igen 2500 generator. It runs our 16000 btu air conditioner just fine and allows us to charge with the leftover juice. We can get 7 or 8 hours of run time for the air conditioner on around a gallon of fuel. Typically that is all we need to cool things off enough to make do otherwise. Generally it will also charge the batteries also on the multiplus with the leftover energy. You may have to set your inverter charger with the appropriate values if you utilize shore power or a generator as to what the appropriate leftover charging capacity happens to be. Frankly you likely don't have enough energy stored to run the boats ac, but a very small generator may be enough running all the time to run ac 24/7 with a Victron Multiplus. Since you are heading southish, AC is a must.. You may use 2-3 gallons of fuel a day(running 24 hours), but at like $180 monthly for extra electricity to run AC. Not an issue for me. The Multiplus can boost start probably two typical AC units on a 2500+ watt (3500 watt)generator. Like a 16000 btu and an 8000 btu. The multiplus adds electricity as needed from the batteries. Solar could make up the slack in between.
Hi Allyn! Wow, always such good information! Thank you! I did not know the risk to burning out the rectifier in the alternators, we will definitely put a label on. We do have an onboard Wester beak diesel generator. It ran during our survey but since then we have not had it running. Sounds like a good project for this week. I have no idea how much fuel it takes but if it burns feel like yours does it sounds like that is clearly the way to go for air conditioning in the tropics. Soon, we will head out and monitor our power consumption, probably a week or two depending on weather. We have multiple hungry laptops and Carter wants a gaming computer desktop version That will likely be power-hungry also. Thank you again! Corey
@@SaltyEscape If you have a Westerbeke it probably is safer, but burns a lot more fuel than my little 2500. Usually those onboard generators are for full on "party mode" running. Typical of most chartered catamarans. Most on cats are sized to run four to six Air Conditioners and everything else. Chances are if you wanted to cut down on fuel usage, you'd have to buy another charger or two just to make use of all the extra power. I'd bet yours is 7000 watts to 12000 watts. Phasor makes a 3.5kw that is good for "right sizing" a large monohull with two AC units and solar. There is even a more reliable 4kw model made by another manufacturer I can't remember at the moment. I don't know what you have onboard in terms of Air Conditioning or lack of, but most factory installed generators are just too big. It might be that you could just buy a smaller one and plug it into a shore power cord. They run just fine tied to the back rail and exhausting off the boat usually. I don't know what your BMS can handle in terms of charging either. Though the batteries can handle a full 280amps each. So whatever your BMS can charge times five(batteries) probably with your wire gauge. It might be you could throw 12000 watts straight into those batteries???Who knows???
@@SaltyEscape , from marine how to "*Most quality 1/2/B battery switches, from reputable manufacturers like Blue Sea Systems, BEP/Marinco, Guest & Perko, are designed to be make-before-break. Make-before-break means that as you turn the switch from position 1, to BOTH or 2, the previous position does not open-circuit or disconnect until the next position can carry the current. As some battery switches age they can wear and become break-before-make. For this reason it is not a good idea to move the switch while the engine is running unless you perform an occasional make-before-break test. The best way to test your switch is to turn on the cabin lighting (incandescent bulbs work best not LED’s) then slowly rotate the switch from 1 to BOTH to 2. If the incandescent light/s flicker at all during this rotation, replace the switch. Even a fraction of a second disconnect is enough to cause an alternator load-dump." marinehowto.com/1-2-both-battery-switch-considerations/
The only yellow one is the heavy ground for the Victron multiplus. It’s yellow because it was salvaged from the existing lead acid battery system. (I don’t know why the original wires were yellow). The ends have black heat shrink and at a glance you can see it’s just the equipment ground. Not so confusing in person but I’m sure it looks a bit messy on camera. I still have some wire organizing to do. 😊 -Corey
Hi Andre, thanks for reaching out! There really isn’t anything mysterious about this install. It’s just a +/- from the starter battery into the Orion and then a +/- out to the DC busses. I did put fuses on each end. There are a number of very nicely drawn wiring diagrams on the Victron website. For us, the system works as intended although our amperage coming in to the battery bank from the alternator is less than expected. I’m planning to upgrade my alternators and then we should have some pretty good input coming in. Hope this helps! Corey
@@SaltyEscape Hi Corey, Thanks for your reply. I was thinking about the differences for a boat install like where to put isolators/disconnects and the protection of the alternators. Since my boat is similar the system should be the same. André
Corey, Nice job on the Lithium/Solar project. I'm considering a new catamaran. Any suggestions you can think of to have added while they are assembling? (like conduit and pre-running wire across between each engine bay..etc..etc). Keep em' coming..very interesting.
Hi Douglas, I’m humbled that you would ask us! The new Cats seem to have most everything figured out for cruising. The only thing I can think of is a wire run for Solar installation. I’ve noticed most cruisers have the challenge of routing wires for solar panels. Hope that helps!! It sure is exciting to be buying a new boat!! -Corey
Can’t figure out why you placed a piece of aluminum behind the heat sinks. All it does is restrict the airflow into the fins of the heat sinks. Would have worked well with just the spacers since it would have allowed more air to circulate. Anyway, just my thought on it. Putting a fan on top of the heat sinks might have been better. 2 cents (CD) into the hat. 👍🙂
Thanks Bayani! There were two main reasons for the aluminum. First, it will serve as an additional heat sink, second in the instructions it says not to install on a flammable surface. (Ours is wood). Most of the time these are mounted directly onto the vertical surface, therefore the aluminum will not interfere with any airflow. Your idea of a fan is a great idea, I will monitor the temperature closely when we are underway and we may install a fan with a thermal switch if needed. Thanks for watching, Corey
Hey Rob, They are used for positive or negative grouping / distribution. For example the positive lead will come off of a battery and attach to a positive bus bar. This bus bar will have multiple additional attachment points for additional leads to power your devices. In my case, I am using my homemade bus bar as a common link for all of my LiFePo4 batteries to be wired in parallel. Does that make sense? Corey
Hi Corey, Another great video. I will gratefully copy the aluminum heat sink when I mount my Victron 12 12/ 30 charger as well. Question is the fabric heat retardant? Cheers Kevin
Hi Kevin, the fabric is felt. I bought it on Amazon. There is a link in the video description to my Amazon affiliate store. The manufacturer said it was ideal for very harsh environments, chemical resistant, heat resistant but they did not mention nonflammable. Although I couldn’t find any other fabrics that were non-flammable either. My assumption is it is flame retardant but I do not know for sure. Maybe I’ll test it on a scrap… LOL. I don’t know how warm these Orions will be during operation, however I doubt they will become that hot. Cheers -Corey
@@SaltyEscape hi Corey, yes I had looked at the link earlier but didn’t see a specific mention regarding flame resistant. It’s also out of stock. I’ll try the local auto supply store. I don’t think it will be an fire risk as the aluminum plate along with the additional spacer you used should keep it safe.. I appreciate your sharing your experience and also taking the time to reply. Cheers Kevin
Thanks Kevin! Sorry it’s out of stock. That’s surprising 🤷♂️. I did not show it in the video but I cut the aluminum plates to fit my install. A metal cutting blade on a jig saw worked well (but slow). Good luck on your install! Corey
May I ask why are you limiting charge current from the alternator of 80 - 85 amps to only 30 amps? (the great advantage of lithium battery in yachts is the fast alternator charging)
Hi Mikael, great question! First let me say, I am not an expert. However, the biggest reason for going with the Victron Orion was the smart, adaptive charging (bulk, absorption and float) designed for LiFePo4. Also the Victron Orion is programmable for your specific charge parameters which was important for us as we built our own battery bank with “raw” cells. And, although it says 30 amps it’s rated for 430 watts continuous. For us we have 2 units and therefore 860 watts when running both engines. Considering most catamarans are only able to install between 1200-1400 watts of solar, we thought the Orion’s 860 watts was pretty good. (We will be installing solar as well). Lastly, unless I’m mistaken, for the 12 volt to 12 volt options the 30 amp is the largest that they sell. I hope that answers your question, if I’m mistaken on something please let me know! Thanks for reaching out to me! Cheers, Corey
Thanks guys! The Orion’s are working perfectly and autonomously. So easy! The only complaint is not with the Orion’s… but rather my alternators. When we upgrade to high output alternators we should see much higher amp input from the Orion’s into the batteries.-Corey
@@SaltyEscape did you use 6awg wire to and from the Orion’s? I heard they get really hot. I like your metal backplate. I am considering putting them in the engine bay close to the Yanmar and starter battery. I hope they don’t get too hot! Fair winds!
I don’t recall which size wire I used… But it was the largest that would fit in the Orion. I had a long run of wire so I needed to use the largest gauge I could.
Seems to me that charging the lithium batteries while motoring is not an example of capturing otherwise wasted energy from the diesel engines. Charging represents a load on the engines that is indistinguishable from a headwind or counter current and will result in burning more fuel than without the lithium connection.
Hi Troy, the alternator turns regardless. There’s no additional load. Now, maybe when we upgrade the alternator there would be a change in load on the engine… however with high output alternators the charging benefit far exceeds the loss.
@@SaltyEscape thanks for fast response. Enjoying your content. So, if I understand you correctly, the alternator puts out a steady current regardless of what it's connected to? If thats the case, then what happens to the current when batteries are fully charged? ✌
My understanding is, the Orion‘s detect voltage. So, when the alternators recharge the starting battery (first) and the starting battery voltage climbs to around 14 the Orion’s kick on and the overflow voltage goes into the lithium battery bank. This overflow voltage would normally be lost. I’m not an expert but that’s my understanding 😉
It could be my speakers but the background music is a little loud in this one. I actually find it better without. It’s nice to hear the sounds of the boat.🛥⚓️
Thanks Jackie, the levels are the same as previous. I have actually been using less music. I think I’ll keep fading it out. I remember an episode of Zatara where they suddenly dropped the music after establishing a routine of having it and it felt awkward to me. I’ll keep phasing it out. Thanks for watching. -Corey
@@SaltyEscape I think I remember that too. I like the music, maybe it’s just when y’all are talking that it’s a little loud and distracting. Such good info and so interesting to watch! I do think it’s my speakers though. I have a very old iPad that I watch on. 😆But if the music goes away I think it would be fine too. When there’s no music I think it’s just more like we are there with y’all in the moment. Loving watching this refit! And I loved loved seeing Beckys solo camera man work! She did great! Tell her thanks!
