Hey everyone. This will be the last video with this car, as the owner wants to move it on. If you are in NZ, Up for grabs are all the parts i made. Headers, exhaust & inlet manifold (currently on hold for someone) check out my instagram (garage4age) for pictures and details. Also some notes on the video; In this case, ideally you would tune the vct for each length. so results could vary, maybe a touch more power to be had at some lengths. Was already over 30 runs (i don't show them all) making this video. would easily 3x that tuning vct for each length. Its a pretty cool example of how the intake tuning moves along the graph and progressively gets weaker as the tube gets shorter.
@@CheekyNinja Unfortunately the revenue from these video's are lucky to pay for the fuel used, let alone anything else. it basically costs me money to make most of them. So yeah kind of hard to justify anything that isn't my own project, or lent to me like this one.
Heres what I think. The Squirrel Monkey is the most frequently seen primate in the Amazon jungle. They are very small, weighing 3 pounds, and live in huge groups (sometimes up to 500 monkeys). Squirrel Monkeys are omnivores and primarily feed on fruit and small insects. And that's all I have to say about that.
Love this one because intake pipe and filter is usually the first mod every body does. I would love to see more testing on this including different diameters and lengths. Btw all your vids are great!
I'm not sure what I like better... The drawings on this video or the 'magic' in your previous vids where you shove cams through the oil filler. Though choice! Nice K24 series! Sad to hear this is the last of it.
Great video! I had similar results in the past testing intake length on a k20. We opted to keep a long intake by plumbing it in like charge pipe. It retained most of the gains that way.
I've been telling people for years to use the longest intake they can fit in the car, for most Hondas thats going to be the best, also fitting a nice velocity stack on a short pipe helps it act like a long pipe. Diameter makes a big difference too.
@@redstonegarage that will depend. Most Hondas want 3 to 4 inch. Length also changes what the best diameter is. Generally I'd build a 3.5" intake as long as will fit with velocity stack. That almost always works really well
From my back of the envelope calculations, it seems like 1000mm is ideal for this engine with peak power @ ~8000rpm, but 700mm would be ideal for a 4-cylinder engine with peak power at 11,000rpm (so an extreme K20 or K24 destroker NA build) while 1300mm would be ideal for a 4-cylinder engine with peak power at 6000rpm (like say the 4-cylinder GM Atlas engine or the Porsche 924 engine or some other big capacity, low revving 4-cylinder engine). Assuming I've used the right equation, closed-open end resonance third harmonic, f = v/λ = 3v/(4L), which seems to match up with f = rpm * (4/2) / 60. [About 266 Hz for 8000rpm, 4-cylinder, 4-stroke -- I know nuffin' lol.] As intake length was shortened less than 1000mm, it increasingly pushed the (third) resonant peak past the maximum rpm of this particular K24 engine. So a 900mm long intake would be ideal for a mild K20 with peak power nearer 8600rpm, compared to 1000mm for a K24 with peak power near 8000rpm? Maybe the explanation is the pipe resonance driving "acoustic streaming" which provides for a slight increase in steady air flow into the engine at those resonance frequencies? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ However there is another resonance at 1/3rd the length, which could also be useful for shorter intakes. None of this explains the hump at 4700rpm which seems to move both left and right without a consistent relationship to intake length, which might be due to something else (the relationship to the custom intake manifold or custom header or something)? I see the initial testing skipped over 300mm however I think 300mm (or 333mm) as a 1/3rd of the ideal 1000mm (i.e., fitting in the first resonance, half a wavelength in the intake tube instead of one and half) might actually be better than the 400mm that was settled upon. As 400mm seems to have a peak at 7500rpm while 200mm seems to have a peak that's past the maximum rpm once again. Edit -- My bad, 325mm was tested later and it *was* better than 425mm, at least for peak power, and 325mm was still a little bit better than 350mm, 375mm for peak power (if it a little less elsewhere). Very interesting. It seems like going from 325mm back up to 375-400mm shifted peak power down from (near) 8000rpm to about ~7700rpm. 325mm would perhaps have been more Honda-ish, 375mm as chosen gave a good compromise with more mid-range everywhere. I wonder if f = rpm * (4/2) / 60 = 3c/(4L), so *L = 3/8 * 60 * c / rpm* = 3/8 * 60 * 343 / 7800 = *989mm* gives a pretty good estimate of what is needed, or if that doesn't fit take 1/3*L (so L = *329mm* ) or 1/8 * 60 * c / rpm, at least in terms of getting peak power at f (7800rpm, 260Hz in this instance)? (Where c = speed of sound, ~343m/s for ambient temps. You'd replace the 4 in 4/2 with the number of cylinders for other types of 4-stroke engines.) This seems right to me and fits with the excellent data, but it might be total BS, please correct me if I'm wrong! I went and measured my Hybrid Racing K-swap cold air intake (the kind that goes down and draws from off to the side of the front bumper) and it seems like it's about 830mm long, so hopefully that's about right -- if having the resonant peak a little bit beyond the maximum rpm of the (K20) engine (~9200rpm?). Unfortunately it's the old 3" diameter model not the newer 3.5" version, though I did put a bellmouth on it, more like what it comes with nowadays! [*Ponders increasing intake length by about 70mm to make it more "optimal"...*]
what if i wanted to keep the stock airbox? its not a civic or integra. ive done the best i can so far; hondata modded, k&n airfilter, 2.5” smooth flex pipe (just changed from corrugated pipe yesterday) and attached a 45 degree pvc bend at the end and shaped it as best i could to be a velocity stack. positioned it so its above the radiator like a dc5 but in a way that air deflects into it from the edge of the grill. silicone 3 to 2.5” elbow for the throttlebody. the next mod is taking that velocity stack off and making a ram air feed. would making the inlet 3” be any benefit? no other mods aside from that. engine is k20 with a ppa head.
This is great to watch to get a bit of context for what happened when Marty and Moog from MCM replaced the complex and extremely long intake on his Peugeot last week, and Moogs Swift lost 7kw from his shorty KN intake
I found the same sort of thing with my mate's ecomang VL speedway car. We thought having a straight TB would increase power from the intake pipe it already had (which was about 5-600mm iirc) and it took a substantial dive in hp. So we put the pipe back and it regained. So we added more pipe length and it continued to gain throughout the curve until we called it quits at nearly 2m as it was impractical. On the car when the new engine was built, he added a long snaking intake of about 1500mm.
If you ever get a chance to buy a old Redblock Volvo for a cheap price it would be really really interesting to see testing on it! They are stock really understressed (dont buy 1985-1988 blocks). They can handle all the abuse you can throw at it. And internet is full of theories how to tune them. But no near the test information you are doing are getting to the public on them. But i really like the Honda dyno series! Good Job! 😁
If you haven't already, see @Stavtech for what he did to Volvo redblock engines. Extensive headwork to make a hemispherical combustion chamber with 30+ PSI boost!
Over here its one of the most tuned engines in car history, both turbo and na, still plenty of them in motorsport use every weekend. Theres massive amounts of knowledge on these.
interesting, we tested an employees car before it was turbo charged with the intake pipped up to the intercooler (before turbo and manifold fitted) and it gained a few kw up top. It was repeatable but we couldnt really figure out why and none of us cared too much anyway. Maybe its the volume similar to what you can see up top on your 1000mm pipe. Owner reported that he couldnt feel the difference in power lol
Im interested about intake swirl ie from twisted butterflies or angled velecity stacks to promote higher air density at traditionally lower portions of the intake valve. Creating that vortex certainly works in a burn barrell (cutting L's and beating them inward to create a monodirectional inlet flow) as far as efficiency wonder whether it'd cross over to air mass delivery ?
I swapped out my Injen short ram intake for a Hybrid cold air intake. Looking forward to trackday & see if i dropped some lap time. Honda EP3 stock K24 174kw at hub dyno with Injen. Havent dynoed new Hybrid intake.
My car was about 1 sec quicker & 2-3km/h top end increase on the main straight of Hampton Downs National track 189-190km/h to 192km/h. Last year I managed multiple 1:20 laps, this year I managed 1:19 x3 in final session. The long cold air intake was better. Thanks for your videos it inspired me to make the change!
Slightly disappointed it's not getting a snorkel just imagine the RAM effect. As a side question since I have been looking at graphs again, is there any relevance to measuring the area under the line of the graph for a certain rev range to smooth out the numbers? Rather than following the wiggles.
The effects of ram are are greatly exaggerated in most people's minds. At 100 MPH it's 0.17 PSI assuming STP. At 150 mph it's 0.4 PSI. We are talking a 2.5% power increase absolute maximum outside land speed record applications.
@@otm646 Yep joking the 4x4 boys go on about it while they have giant wheels and tyres plus all kinds of accessories stuck all over producing even more power sapping drag. The drag from the snorkel would use more power than ram would create.
@@Garage4age No worries, just the ramblings of someone who often comes at things left field re-learning data analysis. Snorkels are overconfidence device's, more useful as a clean air feed with a pre-cleaner. But I've seen a few morons who hydrolocked their engines trying to go through water at ramming speed.
Unlikely to have much / any effect. but can't say ive tried it. Intake manifold itself still has a big effect. but its easier to make/sell short shiny stuff and run all the boost, hence why market flooded with them.
Cool. Have you considered making divided plenum intake? Pairing cylinders 1-4 and 2-3. BMW calls it DISA, other brands probably have some different name for it. It's an easy way to achieve multi length intake runners.
DISA isnt worth the hassle, it's only divided at low rpm, at high rpm the resonance chamber has an impact but it's out-performed by non-DISA manifolds for peak power. And it really doesn't do anything, kinda. N52 non-DISA sees power gains from DISA manifold and tune .. and further gains from DISA delete and N54 manifold. And I wouldn't call it THAT easy. Also moderately failure prone.
honda had its own versions already in the 90s,atleast in some H22 and B18 engines not sure which all but the most performance oriented models never came with it so that tells alot :)
@@flinchy-5224 disa isn't for max power. It's for broader power band. N54 non disa manifold makes more power due to its runner dimensions, not because of lack of disa valve. With appropriate design, disa doesn't hurt peak power. The only failure point is the valve itself. I'd say it's the simplest way to achieve multi length intake manifold. Especially on a straight 6 engine and not too hard with 4 banger.
