This is wonderful. Not only to further my understanding how to play Bach. It made me think about my research about performance practice of the Viennese School, and about a possible "gap" in performance practice: your treatment of phrasing and making the harmony/structure clear through slight rhythmic (or dynamic) modifications reminds me a lot of Webern as conductor (or Schönberg, or Mahler, as far as we know).
This is a fascinating issue, and one that I have pondered about as well -- my other research focus is the Second Viennese School :) I should mention here that Schoenberg credited Bach as one of the composers who provided him with the impetus for the twelve-tone method. And, as a matter of fact, he specifically mentioned (but I don't remember where at the moment) the fugue that accompanies this prelude, since the fugue's subject contains all twelve tones of the chromatic scale!
John is a real musician. He just imagines the sound of the music. He moves a bit, but does not regist it. What he imagines, appears in the room. Thhis is fascinating, for the player and the listener. Some day he will try the same with chocolate ice cream.😊 You are either in the world of music or in the world of words and rules. This makes it impossible to make music and talk abaut the rules. You need a short moment for shifting. John did the record 3 weeks before and then explains some rules of interpretation. He does it as good as possible.
Γειά σου Γιάννη με το κανονάκι σου!! This my current favourite of the WTC, thank you for this very nice breakdown of what is happening under the surface of this prelude.
I'm playing (trying to play) that piece on a YAMAHA PSR-400 with organ voice. Being dull, that takes time. But I have found out that yes, whilst being like a trio-sonata, basso continuo and two voices, the continuo is pulled along by the higher voices and the bass tells them where to go; this piece is much more intertwined than what meets the eye. Furthermore, all three voices are playing around and are guided by a *fourth* voice which is silent, which I hear in many of Bach's works, but never more clearly than in this piece. Perfect opener for the fugue, which also carries this principle and circumplays silence.
This is really fantastic - I learned a lot! This is one of my favorite preludes and I'd always been bored by my interpretation. Now I now why. More of this kind of thing, please. One suggestion: when showing the score, can you show it with your markups of your phrasing and ornaments? Or are those just in your head?
I'm glad you liked the video! The phrasing and ornaments are indeed all in my head. As someone who was trained in the traditional way of writing my interpretive choices in the score, I have been consciously moving away from this philosophy of "fixing" my interpretation for a number of years now. I do have an idea in my head of what I want to do, but I like to leave my response to a piece open for the inspiration of the moment (this makes it mode difficult to have a note-perfect performance, especially as there are no edits in my videos, but I think it's a risk worth taking, and I value the spontaneity that goes with it). This goes for fingering as well (with very very few exceptions). Of course if there are any specific passages you'd like to discuss, we can always do that :)
on an instrument such asa the pipe organ and harpsichord which have no useful dynamics within a keystroke your only tool for phrasing and shaping the music is makeing some notes longer and other shorter even thoug in the notation it looks the same. I believe this should be also done in orchestral music as most was composed on either of these two instruments. My old music teacher from Goddard Ray McIntyre would love this
At times the rising scaling notes have a feeling like your head is filling with helium or nitrous from listening. Maybe thats from the rush of endorphins too as I listen while exercising. Fascinating different moods from this different sound
I'm happy you liked the video! I used a Rameau temperament (more specifically, the one he recommends for keys with sharps in the key signature). I'll say right away that this is almost definitely not what Bach would have used (we don't know exactly what temperament Bach would have used, but it would have been a type of well temperament), but I like the flavor it gives to this piece :-)
Thank you very much for your answer. Yes, I also love the flavour of the temperament that you used, that was why I decided to ask. Please do continue your videos!
Thank you for presenting this discussion and performance of Bach's Prelude in B minor. Made me think. The first stress in hearing this piece (not the performance) is how harmonically, chromatically restless it is--whether played by you or anyone else. I have to stop and think--why did Bach press on for so long without rest, and requiring that the player or listener get ever deeper in the weeds? The piece is powerful, crazy inventive, but exhausting in my opinion. And I wonder, what was Bach thinking when he wrote it? Was he trying to drive his pupils mad? I don't dislike or like the piece, yst I'm just perplexed even with the note values within a phrase being changed, I long for a rest, cadence, a breath!!! And I wonder what it would sound like on an organ, or with violin in the upper voice. Bach has driven me to near insanity with his chromaticism, restless and breathless lines. That said, I still adore this composer. And I love the study of music, too, so thanks so much for your thoughtful offering. Also thanks for including the score!!! :)
Thank you, and I'm happy you enjoyed the video! Bach is of course highly regarded today, but in his time there were criticisms of his style very much in line with what you criticize. The complexity and also the seemingly endless elaboration was criticized not only by his employers in Leipzig, but also in a well-known critique by Johann Adolf Scheibe, who said something to the extent that Bach would be a great composer if he didn't fall into the trap of using "too much art" (you may be able to find this online, but I'm sure it's included in The Bach Reader). So you are not alone :-)
@@johnmoraitis For this particular piece, I think we must remember that the WTC was not necessarily meant for performance for a "regular audience." There are of course many of his pieces that are more performance-oriented that also have that degree of complexity and "endless elaboration" like you say. But listening to the WTC in particular can be exhausting! This prelude is esoteric but does fall in line logically with the upcoming fugue in terms of pushing the limits so to speak. I definitely appreciate your insight here, a lot of what you say falls in line with what my teacher would talk about when I took harpsichord lessons for a short while. It's crazy how Bach's music can retain it's beauty regardless of playing style and instrument.
@@johnmoraitis Thank you for the video. My own first reaction to this piece was different. Despite the complexity, at the end of WTC1 it impressed me with an etheric (Italian-like?) singing atmosphere, a kind of resting point after all that came before rather than a new challenge. An untrained listener does not even have to notice first that the right hand is playing two voices. I love the piece enough that with my extremely limited skills now I learned to play it just to explore its magic more.
It’s interesting to hear this prelude with the ornamentations. I think that this prelude represents how Bach would have easily improvised a prelude. Because it is the 24th, the last prelude in WTC I, in my opinion, he was probably thinking “let’s just get this done and I’ll make it easy for myself and just using a walking bass.” Walking bassline’s had been around for a long time and I’m sure he was a master at realizing them. This prelude shows his mastery. I love it!
what you are explaining here is totally contradictory of what i thought and expected. I have always been taught that metric steadiness is a hallmark of bachs music. what you are explaining here is exactly the contrary. I am not convinced by your explanation.
That's what I was taught too. However, this is not exactly what the historical sources tell us. I also think you may be confusing the stability of an overall tempo versus rhythmic flexibility in between. Traditional 20th-century performance is very different from actual Baroque practice. I am not suggesting I have all the answers--but do consult historical sources of Bach's time and you will see that what you say is not supported by the historical evidence.
I don t know which opinion is correct. however: whichever opinion may be the right one, I do appreciate what you are doing. The conventional music industry is heavily commercialized. The majority of listeners ( that is: consumers ) are brainless buyers of brand names. Music needs thinking and understanding and that you definitely contribute.
Thank you for your appreciation, and for watching my videos! Regarding the interpretation of baroque music, what I would say is that "traditional" 20th-century performance tended to simply play what was on the page without much flexibility. But this style was based on a modern (i.e. 20th-century) conception of how baroque music was supposed to be performed, without actually studying the sources from that time. If you look at the sources (and this is what Historically Informed Performance practice does), you will see that many of the characteristics we ascribe to Romantic music, like rhythmic flexibility and rubato, were very much part of the baroque style, even if they were done in a different way compared to the Romantic style. These sources are easily available nowadays, and I would really recommend that you explore them on your own. When I did that myself, it opened up a new expressive way of looking at this music. Of course there is no one "correct" way, and my comments in the video are only my attempt to come to terms with Bach's language as I understand it. Incidentally, Robert Donington's Interpretation of Early Music is an excellent place to start. The book is old by now (published in 1963), but it is easy to find on the internet, and it is a collection of quotations from historical sources on all performing matters. Thank you again for watching, and for the discussion!
